Why does Harper want to keep us in Afghanistan?

[belinda emerson]

I already told you where to look. You have to go to the NATO site and do your own research of the number. The Dutch have been called in many times to help out the Canadian on the battlefront because they have helicopter support. Also yes I know casualties also include the wounded.

This is a NATO mission and if you want the real stst on what is and is not going on that is where to start. I how quoted nato in posts before, but I do not still have the link, but you should not have a tough time finding it on their site.

As I said, if you have evidence to support your point, present it.

[watching&waiting]

Here this I got simply by google with "Dutch Casualties in Afghanistan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coalition_cas..._in_Afghanistan

[jdobbin]

Here this I got simply by google with "Dutch Casualties in Afghanistan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coalition_cas..._in_Afghanistan

The last Dutch killed in combat was in August. It was an aircraft crash. Two others were killed in a helicopter crash back in July. The latest...was a suicide on October 11.

[belinda emerson]

Here this I got simply by google with "Dutch Casualties in Afghanistan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coalition_cas..._in_Afghanistan

The last Dutch killed in combat was in August. It was an aircraft crash. Two others were killed in a helicopter crash back in July. The latest...was a suicide on October 11.

Hmmm, so far it does indeed sound like a largely Bush/Harper/Blair mission with very few exceptions

casualty-wise. Do these three amigos really believe that they'll be any more successful than the Russians

in imposing their will on the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan? The best that they can hope for is that the Taliban will keep a low profile until they withdraw. What a waste of Canadian and other lives.

[watching&waiting]

Belinda, did you ever study the WWII or WWI and if not, then may I suggest you do, there are many reasons why saying it is not our fight has had. There have been millions of deaths of innocent civillians because lack of action. Before you go saying things about we should not be there and the rest, you really need to research about what you say. I posted a link for you all ready, as you seemed unable to do so yourself. But I like debates and I sometimes even enjoy the view of the man /woman on the street. But in something where lives of our and other countries soldiers are being put on the line, each and every day, I just ask that you look up why we are there. not just why the USA attacked and then had NATO take over, but why NATO who is a multi-nation organization, decided to be there. Just whaat the goals are and how they are being met.

We have already out done what the Russians tried simply because we do not go there to be conquorers. The Taliban if it had been left alone would have by now allowed Bin Ladin access to atomic weapons. Just tink about that for a minute, and then tell me that we should have left them alone? While yes I will admit that we are not going to make them a fully democratially ruled government, I will be satisfied if they elect a compromise of general goverment represetation and religious representation as well. There has been huge construction projects ongoing in Aghanistan and they are just now gettign the taste of what can be accomplished there. We need to get the job done and that takes time and yes lives of some very brave men and women. Just remember, we fight over they, so you can still have your freedom here at home.

[belinda emerson]

Belinda, did you ever study the WWII or WWI

I certainly have including reading all six volumes of the Second World War by Winston Churchill. Canada was one of the first countries in the world to enter this very just war. By contrast, the US did not enter WWII until after they were attacked by Japan. Even then, the US did not declare war on Germany until AFTER Germany, as a result of treaty obligations to Japan, declared war on the US.

But Canada's current involvement in Afghanistan is far more reminiscent of US involvement in Vietnam and Iraq than it is of Canadian involvement in Germany. I am not convinced that the current government of the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan, despite being democratically elected, is any more worthy of our support than the 1933 German NSDAP government, which was also democratically elected.

[watching&waiting]

Belinda, I will just say that had the Taliban not been overthrown and we just allowed BinLadin to continue his bases and support there, we would have a whole different situation. It is a fact that Bin Ladin was seeking nuclear materials, it has been proven. Also contrary to what the USA and other like to say, once you have the materials just about any chemist or physists can make a very damaging bomb. That to me is more dangerous to us here in Canda then this Nato action is. We are still not out of the woods yet either as the Taliban and its insurgency is being given safe harbour in the North od Pakistan. Being that Pakistan is a nucear power and already has materials that could easily one day become part of an arsenal of an extreme Muslim lead government, does that make you sleep any better. Yes we are making a message to the Taliban and all extremist muslims every where, they need to know that when they threaten us we will react.

To many of the extremist Muslims if they had the bomb we probably would all be dead now, as they have said that they would use it to cleanse the world of infedels. That is you and I. This time is very much like the events that allowed Hitler to build up a huge German army and divert the countries manufacturing to war time status. The waited and we saw what happened. We all had to fight for our very way of life. Take a look at what the Taliban stands for and the fact that they call for the deaths of all who do not convert to Islam. This is not the same way we have religion here. For them it is a way of life. They believe to lose their life in the casue of Islam is something to be strived for. I am against what the USA did in Iraq and I am not fond of their approach to many things, but right now here in Canada we have a good life. We are free and we can do pretty much what we want. If we let things grow over in these lands that we now try and free, then will will not have our life here the way it is now for very long. Probably within my life time it would happen.

[jdobbin]

Belinda, I will just say that had the Taliban not been overthrown and we just allowed BinLadin to continue his bases and support there, we would have a whole different situation. It is a fact that Bin Ladin was seeking nuclear materials, it has been proven. Also contrary to what the USA and other like to say, once you have the materials just about any chemist or physists can make a very damaging bomb. That to me is more dangerous to us here in Canda then this Nato action is. We are still not out of the woods yet either as the Taliban and its insurgency is being given safe harbour in the North od Pakistan. Being that Pakistan is a nucear power and already has materials that could easily one day become part of an arsenal of an extreme Muslim lead government, does that make you sleep any better. Yes we are making a message to the Taliban and all extremist muslims every where, they need to know that when they threaten us we will react.

Sadly, the Taliban can hide in Pakistan and get support there. No matter how long Canada stays in Afghanistan, it has an enemy at the border ready to strike.

And NATO has Canada at the front and there doesn't seem to be anyone that will take our place. Two years of that is not going to be good for anyone.

[belinda emerson]

Belinda, I will just say that had the Taliban not been overthrown and we just allowed BinLadin to continue his bases and support there, we would have a whole different situation. It is a fact that Bin Ladin was seeking nuclear materials, it has been proven.

As I recall, the US had no interest in overthrowing the Taliban until after 9/11. They entered Afghanistan mainly for the purpose of capturing Bin Laden, certainly a worthy purpose and one which I applauded. Mistreatment of women under the Taliban was not why the US entered Afghanistan. Moreover, if the Taliban of Afghanistan are indeed a world threat, why is the US deploying so much more of their resources to Iraq, a country which they now acknowledge had no weapons of mass destruction, and relatively little to Afghanistan?

[watching&waiting]

On this point I can agree with you completely. Even though the USA last month turned 12,000 troops that were under their own command in Afghanistan, over to NATO command, it still was not a net increase, but it does give now less chance of two different operation shooting at each other. I would like to see the USA pull troops from Iraq and use them in Afghanistan to finish things they in the first place, but for now I do not see that happening

[Leafless]

Moreover, if the Taliban of Afghanistan are indeed a world threat, why is the US deploying so much more of their resources to Iraq, a country which they now acknowledge had no weapons of mass destruction, and relatively little to Afghanistan?

Please pay close attention to the second paragraph but more importantly I must ask you exactly whose side are you actually on?

http://www.theinsider.org/news/article.asp?id=0423

[belinda emerson]

Moreover, if the Taliban of Afghanistan are indeed a world threat, why is the US deploying so much more of their resources to Iraq, a country which they now acknowledge had no weapons of mass destruction, and relatively little to Afghanistan?

Please pay close attention to the second paragraph but more importantly I must ask you exactly whose side are you actually on?

http://www.theinsider.org/news/article.asp?id=0423

I'm on Canada's side. The second paragraph states that the US entered Iraq for the oil. That's not what Bush said. Are you saying Bush lied? I thought the US entered Iraq to find WMD and to topple Saddam.

[Leafless]

I'm on Canada's side. The second paragraph states that the US entered Iraq for the oil. That's not what Bush said. Are you saying Bush lied? I thought the US entered Iraq to find WMD and to topple Saddam.

If your on Canada's side then you know we are a strong ally of the U.S. and that we are dependent on the U.S. and we are strongly influenced by the U.S. cultural to the degree we mock U.S. lifestyles.

The reasons the U.S. entered Iraq were definitely in the interest of the U.S. and generally speaking in the interest of the free world.

But the important part is that the U.S. did give Saddam Hussein an opportunity to surrender, prior to the invasion in which he declined and subsequently Saddam was toppled by the U.S. and it's allies.

[Army Guy]

belinda emerson:

Certainly Afghanistan is better off without the brutal Taliban

Paul Martin was a fool for getting us into Afghanistan and Stephen Harper has now extended this mission.

Other than pandering to U.S. foreign policy interests, why do Ignatieff and Harper want us there, and at what point will they conclude that we're merely repeating the Russian experience in Afghanistan and creating more terrorists?

Just so that i'm getting this straight, Afgan perhaps the world is better off without the taliban. As long as it is not Canada doing the work or sacrifice, because that would just be foolish. Or as you put it pandering to US foreign policy which is so unCanadian.

The remark about repeating the Russian experiance ,very bold perhaps you can enlighten me on how the two experiances are the same.

As for creating more terrorists again another bold statement, it is easy for some to sit in thier arm chairs and piont the finger ...STOP or you will create more terrorists, kill one and 10 more will take they're place. At what piont do we all "STOP" pandering to terrorist foreign policy, when do we stop curtailing our day to day activities to avoid pissing these guys off, when do we finally stand up and for our beliefs, for our religion, for our rights.

Where i'm i going with this,9/11 involved Canadians, but no more than if they had taken out 30 and shot them in the Canadian streets, and something needed to be done, a message needed to be sent, and we as a nation sent that message loud and clear.

And in sending that message we agreed to rebuild Afgan, for the ground up starting with it's Elected gov't ( not a government based on our morals or values but thiers)

So is it foolish to rebuild a nation that has struggled most of it's existance, to rebuild a nation that most of it's people just want peace, to be able to feed thier children, to send them to school, to grow up and learn to ride a bike or fly a kite rather than field strip an AK 47. Yes that would be foolish to even consider taking up a struggle were so many have failed, and yet we have a proud Military history of doing just that, Standing up for others in thier time of need.

This is why in March, 2006, an Afghan man who converted to Christianity faced the death penalty. See:

This has been used many times to piont out what an evil gov't Afgan has, and yet for all the headlines this story made, do you even know what became of him, was he put to death, or did the Afgan Gov't in the end do what was right, by our standards.

When you ask a soldier here "why are me here" they'll piont to the Afgan people, they don't have a 10 page polictically correct speach for us, it's all about the people.. If you asked Is it all worth it, Yes it is worth it, The fact that soldiers volunteer serveral times speaks volumes about how soldiers believe in this mission...To believe in something so much to risk thier lives over and over again...but somehow Canadians don't get that, ....they don't get the fact that the very soldiers that Canadains sent over there believe in the mission, not because they are ordered to, but because they want to on thier own free will.

Why is thier word not being heard, because it is thier jobs, because our words do not count, and yet like any other Canadian we pay taxes, we have families, children, homes ,etc etc plus risk our lives when called upon ...why would you chose not to listen to us...

Everyone is entitled to thier opinions, it's a right,...and not everyone is going to agree with the mission, but it really should be based on fact, not just because it's an american thing, nor "were creating more terrorists", or some policitcal wieny says it so, but because you have made a chioce based on all the available facts.

I'm over here today, because i volunteered for the second time, because deep down in my heart i believe it the right thing to do. that the Afgan people are worth my blood, sweat, and tears. Because life is far from perfect, and sometimes someone has to pull thier head out of the sand, to say enough is enough and to draw a line in the sand and boldly state "cross that line and you will pay" Not because it is an american thing to do, but the right thing to do, And not because were afraid of creating more terrorist, because sooner or later Allah is going to run out of virgins.

[August1991]

I'm over here today, because i volunteered for the second time, because deep down in my heart i believe it the right thing to do. that the Afgan people are worth my blood, sweat, and tears. Because life is far from perfect, and sometimes someone has to pull thier head out of the sand, to say enough is enough and to draw a line in the sand and boldly state "cross that line and you will pay" Not because it is an american thing to do, but the right thing to do, And not because were afraid of creating more terrorist, because sooner or later Allah is going to run out of virgins.

Very well said.

[jdobbin]

I'm over here today, because i volunteered for the second time, because deep down in my heart i believe it the right thing to do. that the Afgan people are worth my blood, sweat, and tears. Because life is far from perfect, and sometimes someone has to pull thier head out of the sand, to say enough is enough and to draw a line in the sand and boldly state "cross that line and you will pay" Not because it is an american thing to do, but the right thing to do, And not because were afraid of creating more terrorist, because sooner or later Allah is going to run out of virgins.

The argument against extending the misison was that Canada was stretching things to the very max. All this month, our political and military leaders have been begging NATO for some relief. It isn't coming.

And now they say they want to re-traine sailors to fight in the war. What?

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...?hub=TopStories

The original mission would have had Canadians home for some much needed rest, retraining and recruitment. Now this is two years of possibly on the frontlines works with squat coming from the majority of NATO.

And this look like it will be your last mission as O'Connor says he doesn't want to have the same guys serving over and over in Afghanistan.

[Army Guy]

jdobbin:

The argument against extending the misison was that Canada was stretching things to the very max. All this month, our political and military leaders have been begging NATO for some relief. It isn't coming

Not true, Canada, denmark and the Polish have agreed to send more troops, plus germany is seeking to have it's restrictions removed. so relief is coming it is going to take some time to put it on the ground, but i would bet my pay check that this time next year they will be here.

And now they say they want to re-traine sailors to fight in the war. What?

From your link

the preference is they would fill administrative and support positions, he said.

The majority of that remark was aimed at what DND calls purple trades, trades that are common to each element like clerks, sup techs, etc...these people would be reroled into the army as the job is the same just the elemental training is different. IE in the army we dig trenchs,carry guns, in the airforce they stay in hotels, and i'm not sure what else they do, sing at stand up bars "top gun".

To those that will leave thier jobs or trades for the combats arms trades.

this is common practice to ask , Nobody will be forced to leave there current jobs or trades, they're looking for volunteers who are looking at doing something else...they normally don't get many going the other way ie from navy or airforce into the army...normally it is the other way around... so not a solution to thier problem.

And these people will not be going any where without the proper training, plus completing thier pre deployment training. and if they are not capable they won't be going any where.

The original mission would have had Canadians home for some much needed rest, retraining and recruitment. Now this is two years of possibly on the frontlines works with squat coming from the majority of NATO.

The problem with having a military as small as ours there is never any time to rest, retrain, or recruit. and we do all that on the fly, as we have always done, don't let any of those polictical parties fool you into thinking they are willing to let us do all of those things, and have a break as well. The liberals had us slated to go into another operation upon returning from Afgan, And the NDP wanted to send us into Dafur. So regardless we are never getting a break that is the nature of the beast. Besides you don't earn polictical pionts with your troops in garison, with there feet up.

And this look like it will be your last mission as O'Connor says he doesn't want to have the same guys serving over and over in Afghanistan.

Don't believe everything you read, Mr O'Conner may be the minster of national defense but he is no magician, The Vandoos will start thier rotations in 07, they will be the last Brigade group, not to have served in southern Afgan, meaning the next on the list will be the PPCLI again for thier second kick at the cat in 08, followed up by the RCR's for thier second rotation in 09. So unless there is a magical way of creating two additional Brigade groups there is no way soldiers are only serving 1 tour each...And as a piont of ref it is taken 2 to 3 years just to create and man the New CSOR BN, there is well over 12 units (BN) in a brigade. and he would need 2 of those.

Besides it is a mout piont anyway, volunteers has never been a problem, ever...

[jdobbin]

jdobbin:

Not true, Canada, denmark and the Polish have agreed to send more troops, plus germany is seeking to have it's restrictions removed. so relief is coming it is going to take some time to put it on the ground, but i would bet my pay check that this time next year they will be here.

The majority of that remark was aimed at what DND calls purple trades, trades that are common to each element like clerks, sup techs, etc...these people would be reroled into the army as the job is the same just the elemental training is different. IE in the army we dig trenchs,carry guns, in the airforce they stay in hotels, and i'm not sure what else they do, sing at stand up bars "top gun".

To those that will leave thier jobs or trades for the combats arms trades.

this is common practice to ask , Nobody will be forced to leave there current jobs or trades, they're looking for volunteers who are looking at doing something else...they normally don't get many going the other way ie from navy or airforce into the army...normally it is the other way around... so not a solution to thier problem.

And these people will not be going any where without the proper training, plus completing thier pre deployment training. and if they are not capable they won't be going any where.

The problem with having a military as small as ours there is never any time to rest, retrain, or recruit. and we do all that on the fly, as we have always done, don't let any of those polictical parties fool you into thinking they are willing to let us do all of those things, and have a break as well. The liberals had us slated to go into another operation upon returning from Afgan, And the NDP wanted to send us into Dafur. So regardless we are never getting a break that is the nature of the beast. Besides you don't earn polictical pionts with your troops in garison, with there feet up.

Don't believe everything you read, Mr O'Conner may be the minster of national defense but he is no magician, The Vandoos will start thier rotations in 07, they will be the last Brigade group, not to have served in southern Afgan, meaning the next on the list will be the PPCLI again for thier second kick at the cat in 08, followed up by the RCR's for thier second rotation in 09. So unless there is a magical way of creating two additional Brigade groups there is no way soldiers are only serving 1 tour each...And as a piont of ref it is taken 2 to 3 years just to create and man the New CSOR BN, there is well over 12 units (BN) in a brigade. and he would need 2 of those.

Besides it is a mout piont anyway, volunteers has never been a problem, ever...

So in other words, O'Connor doesn't know what he's talking about when it comes to who is going to serve there or at worst, he's lying.

As far as Poland and Denmark going to the frontlines, I'll believe it when I see it. Spain and Germany were supposed to be out there as well and they are barely heard from. We'll see what their rules of engagement are.

It was senior military leaders who resisted the Afghan mission. They said that it would tap out Canada in terms of military resources. They were right. At the same time that Denmark and Poland said they were coming, Canada said there was no way that this country could stay on the frontline every day for two years. I suspect that is exactly what might happen.

Most of NATO is not committed to this. They are in their barracks with limited rules of engagment.

[Army Guy]

jdobbin:

So in other words, O'Connor doesn't know what he's talking about when it comes to who is going to serve there or at worst, he's lying.

The math is actually very simple, keep in mind that 2 Brigades have already been rotated thru already. and we only have one Brigade left.

As far as Poland and Denmark going to the frontlines, I'll believe it when I see it. Spain and Germany were supposed to be out there as well and they are barely heard from. We'll see what their rules of engagement are.

I just want to stress that Canada is not here in the south alone, our Camp is made up of many different nations. each doing it's own specialized job all working towards the same goal. Anyone in the south is in a combat zone, and everyone is facing the same dangers.

As for rules of engagements, if you are in the south they are going to be the same ones we work off of. everyone is on the same page, nobody, or any country in the south is confined to barracks. and if thier jobs take them off the camp then thats what they'll do.

It was senior military leaders who resisted the Afghan mission. They said that it would tap out Canada in terms of military resources. They were right. At the same time that Denmark and Poland said they were coming, Canada said there was no way that this country could stay on the frontline every day for two years. I suspect that is exactly what might happen.

Yes senior military advisors did tell them we where not ready for another major mission, but thats what makes our country what it is, the military does not decide what mission we go on or what we do it's our elected house of parliment..And they are going to get thier monies and votes worth regardless.

I've been doing this for just over 20 years now, and have yet seen a government that actually is good for the military, the closest one yet has been this one..But every Canadian knows the shape of it's military, it's not a secret. But there is no major lobby or election platform to change that, because all Canadians are good with that, yes we all say our military should be better equiped, better manned etc etc..but that is all most of us do...So we all share the blame in our current military situation.

The military has always been there, and has always done what you have asked of it, and has always been quick to shout "to borrow a Navy term" AYE Ready AYE. you have told us we will be here until 2009 or beyond and thats where we will be serving our nation.

Most of NATO is not committed to this. They are in their barracks with limited rules of engagment.

Why would they, Canada is not committed, yes we have troops on the ground but we as a nation can not say for sure if we want to be there, that we support the mission...And if we can not make up our own minds then we as a nation have no rights in pionting our fingers at them...There is alot more that this nation could be doing in Afgan if the majority of government and the nation supported the mission. and until that happens we are just tredding water.

[jdobbin]

The math is actually very simple, keep in mind that 2 Brigades have already been rotated thru already. and we only have one Brigade left.

I just want to stress that Canada is not here in the south alone, our Camp is made up of many different nations. each doing it's own specialized job all working towards the same goal. Anyone in the south is in a combat zone, and everyone is facing the same dangers.

As for rules of engagements, if you are in the south they are going to be the same ones we work off of. everyone is on the same page, nobody, or any country in the south is confined to barracks. and if thier jobs take them off the camp then thats what they'll do.

Yes senior military advisors did tell them we where not ready for another major mission, but thats what makes our country what it is, the military does not decide what mission we go on or what we do it's our elected house of parliment..And they are going to get thier monies and votes worth regardless.

I've been doing this for just over 20 years now, and have yet seen a government that actually is good for the military, the closest one yet has been this one..But every Canadian knows the shape of it's military, it's not a secret. But there is no major lobby or election platform to change that, because all Canadians are good with that, yes we all say our military should be better equiped, better manned etc etc..but that is all most of us do...So we all share the blame in our current military situation.

The military has always been there, and has always done what you have asked of it, and has always been quick to shout "to borrow a Navy term" AYE Ready AYE. you have told us we will be here until 2009 or beyond and thats where we will be serving our nation.

Why would they, Canada is not committed, yes we have troops on the ground but we as a nation can not say for sure if we want to be there, that we support the mission...And if we can not make up our own minds then we as a nation have no rights in pionting our fingers at them...There is alot more that this nation could be doing in Afgan if the majority of government and the nation supported the mission. and until that happens we are just tredding water.

So O'Connor doesn't know what he's talking about or he's lying. Either way he doesn't have it right on tours of duty.

Hmm, Canadian casualties all the last weeks, the odd Brit and American but no one else except those dead by suicide. Nope. Don't see it. Spain is not out fighting on the frontline according to most observers.

There are a lot of areas that Canada falls short on. The military is one.

If Harper's hints are correct, Canadian troops will be there beyond 2009. I wonder who will be serving if they only allow one tour.

And NATO hasn't been reluctant to send frontline forces because Canadian people haven't been supportive. They have their own reasons and they have nothing to do with Canada. Canadians continue to support the soldiers and the mission. The government does a piss poor job of getting information out though. They even edit information from Word War 2 because it might threaten soldiers in Afghanistan. Wish that was a joke but it isn't.

Last minute edit.

Sailors to drive trucks in Afghanistan.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/061025/...an_cda_recruits

[Army Guy]

jdobbin:

Hmm, Canadian casualties all the last weeks, the odd Brit and American but no one else except those dead by suicide. Nope. Don't see it. Spain is not out fighting on the frontline according to most observers

Not everyone can serve on the front lines, keep in mind for every soldier on the front you require atleast 10 support trades to keep them, supplied, payed, fed, vehs maintained etc...And everyones efforts are required.

And NATO hasn't been reluctant to send frontline forces because Canadian people haven't been supportive. They have their own reasons and they have nothing to do with Canada. Canadians continue to support the soldiers and the mission. The government does a piss poor job of getting information out though. They even edit information from Word War 2 because it might threaten soldiers in Afghanistan. Wish that was a joke but it isn't.

And i agree with you partially, the situation in Canada does nothing for there cause, and when those governments look at the whole problem they don't see a nation such as Canada in the lead, all they see is nations that are undecided at best, and that plays a role in thier decission process. I'd like to blame just the government but i think the media plays a part in that as well.

Sailors to drive trucks in Afghanistan

Not entirely true, heres why. DND has what are called Purple trades, mostly support trades such as Supply, Truckers, Pay clerks, cooks etc etc they do not belong to any one element Army, Navy, or Airforce. they are posted where they are needed. a member can spend time in all three elements thru out thier carears.

All that is required is eviromental training, a short course that teaches a person to be in the army or navy...i don't think the airforce has one..."hard to train someone how to live in a hotel"...anyways it is these purple trades that are targeted...and most have already served in two or more elemnets anyway...it must be noted we are not total idiots each soldier coming over here recieves extensive 6 month training and work-ups and if they are deemed to be a danger to themselfs or others they are "not" sent period....no if's no buts they do not get on the plane....i mean give the army some credit, they are not going to ship a sailor off to an army operation without any training.

I hope that explains it alittle better.

[jdobbin]

Not everyone can serve on the front lines, keep in mind for every soldier on the front you require atleast 10 support trades to keep them, supplied, payed, fed, vehs maintained etc...And everyones efforts are required.

And i agree with you partially, the situation in Canada does nothing for there cause, and when those governments look at the whole problem they don't see a nation such as Canada in the lead, all they see is nations that are undecided at best, and that plays a role in thier decission process. I'd like to blame just the government but i think the media plays a part in that as well.

Not entirely true, heres why. DND has what are called Purple trades, mostly support trades such as Supply, Truckers, Pay clerks, cooks etc etc they do not belong to any one element Army, Navy, or Airforce. they are posted where they are needed. a member can spend time in all three elements thru out thier carears.

All that is required is eviromental training, a short course that teaches a person to be in the army or navy...i don't think the airforce has one..."hard to train someone how to live in a hotel"...anyways it is these purple trades that are targeted...and most have already served in two or more elemnets anyway...it must be noted we are not total idiots each soldier coming over here recieves extensive 6 month training and work-ups and if they are deemed to be a danger to themselfs or others they are "not" sent period....no if's no buts they do not get on the plane....i mean give the army some credit, they are not going to ship a sailor off to an army operation without any training.

I hope that explains it alittle better.

For some time General Hillier and the Defence and Foreign Affiars department have been aggressively trying to get the Europeans to put up more effort. Spain is perfectly capable of combat operations. They aren't out there. We'll see if Poland is on the frontline. A lot of countries make a committment and then aren't really ijn the danger zone. And this is according to our own Generals and Defence minister.

As far as tours of duty go, the Conservatives are being widely ridiculed by military analysts who normally support the Tories. They say none of what O'Connor is saying makes any sense to them.

One thing is clear is that Afghanistan is now again a country fueled by drugs. There has to be a policy to deal with that and it probably can't be burning the crop to the ground.