Supporting Caledonians in their resistance of the Mohawk Warrior Socie

[scribblet]

I think this deserves its own thread, yup I know is this 13 or 14...but this is worth a read.

This is a speech writen by a Six Nations member which was read at the March for Freedom in Caledonia. In it he identifies and tries to get help to remove a violent criminal extremist cult that has infected his Six nations. How much longer do people have to put up with violence and intimidation and double standards.

His web site is at:

http://nycrimewatch.blogspot.com/

Speech from NY CrimeWatch

Oct 15, 2006

To all concerned residents of Caledonia and Canada:

I wish I could be present at your gathering in support of the fight against Two Tier Justice, but unfortunately my employment and obligations state that I must remain working.

Although I am not able to speak in person; I have asked Christine McHale to read my letter in my place.

I am Onkwehonwe (person of Turtle Island) and my family and I have participated in the Longhouse religion. It is a way of life for me as Christianity is to you and your family. I lived in the communities. Some of my best friends are and were Warriors. Some of my family are Warriors. Warrior theology is not Longhouse. Warrior theology is a cult. It is comparable to David Koresh at Waco or Jim Jones at Jonestown. Warrior Theology is deadly. The Warrior Society is and will always be a Native American militant cultic organization. It is very similar to Hezbollah.

I have personally witnessed terrible actions of the Warrior Society; I have witnessed drug trafficking, spousal abuse, drug smuggling, alcohol abuse, drug abuse, cigarette smuggling, money laundering, etc.

I have attended funerals for young men killed in trafficking and smuggling. I have attended funerals for young men killed by drunk drivers. They had too much money from smuggling. That led to their death's. I have witnessed young Warriors shoot at police, Customs agents, blockade bridges, topple vehicles, shoot at other Natives, blow up police cars, attempt to kill Border Patrol Agents, ram Police Boats, high speed chases, beat other Natives with baseball bats, AK-47 shoot outs, exploding police officers' personal cars, Rape, Child Molestation, all because of the values taught within the Warrior Society.

These criminal activities are an everyday occurrence in Native America.

The Longhouse religion has a special place in North American history and in the hearts of many Natives. Unfortunately, extremists utilize this ancient religion to further their own goals under the disguise of Native Sovereignty also known as MONEY!

Many preach about the myth of the two row wampum (Treaty with the Dutch) of you being in a ship and I in a canoe. We sail along together side by side and that we don't cross each other's paths.

It appears that the Warrior Societies have attempted to act as Pirates and hijack the white man's ship.

The Warrior Societies are a new movement hiding behind current theological themes to further there own agenda. The Warriors are expendable individuals fighting for the wealthy that are afraid to fight their own political goals.

The Warriors are financed by illegal contributions from drugs, guns, cigarettes, gambling, and money laundering. They accept this money to terrorize and steal in the name of their god.

These groups have been associated with international terrorist organizations as deadly as Moamar Ghadaffi, Hezbollah, The Blind Sheik and his lawyer Lynne F. Stewart.

The Warriors do not recognize international boundaries like the 49th parallel that separates two great democracies; Canada and the United States of America.

The Warriors call themselves Onkwehonwe or Haudenosaunee. Not an American or Canadian. They Hate. They Kill. They Steal from you and me. They destroy communities. They have destroyed there own community at Akwesasne. They killed two men J.R. Edward's and Matthew Pyke for Casino's. They killed Cpl. LeMay at Oka.

They have no respect for the Law or any value for human life. They have demonstrated that through their actions in the past.

They destroyed your Communities at Ipperwash and Caledonia. They harass you everyday and threaten your right to be peaceful.

You can no longer walk down the street at night, let your children play in your yard. They threaten with insults and terrorize you in the media. We walk together in unison.

The OPP stand by. That's all they do. Your politicians have failed you.

You have been robbed of your integrity and belief in the criminal justice system.

Don't stand for it anymore. It is time to resist the Warriors. If the Warriors' war is with the Government then Warriors take your war to the government. Leave Caledonia alone!

Cowards hide behind walls, women and children. Cowards cover there faces with masks. Cowards threaten and intimidate. Cowards steal and terrorize and will not fight in a courtroom or in the political arena.

The Warriors say that they cannot win in a courtroom because the deck is always stacked against them. MAYBE it is true. MAYBE they have no land claim.

These Cowards have frightened our government and police. They do not frighten us. We shall win Caledonia and Ipperwash back. We as Canadians must stand to end two tier justice and take our COUNTRY BACK.

I want to walk down the street at night with no fear. I want to let my child play in my yard with no fear. I want to shake hands with my Native neighbor with no fear.

JUSTICE DENIED ANYWHERE IS JUSTICE DENIED EVERYWHERE!

The Warriors and the Native occupiers must BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR ACTIONS. The OPP MUST ENFORCE A LAWFUL COURT ORDER!

No two tier justice. No man or woman is above the law because of the color of their skin. The Warriors are Canadian. No More. No Less.

The Warriors are not above the law. They are not beneath the law. They are subject to our law, the Canadian Constitution and Charter of Rights.

No man shall hide behind his god and not be answerable to his community. The Warriors need to answer to us. We are their community. We are their peers. We want answers as to why they won't answer and surrender to the courts of Canada. They can't and will not answer because they have no answer as to why they won't surrender.

They are cowards. They are terrorists. They have taken Caledonia and Ipperwash hostage as if it were a 747 in mid flight. They have taken our families hostage. They have ravaged our communities. They claim it to be a joyful experience. They are terrorists!

Let's pray for those that hold us hostage. Let's free ourselves of the situation before us and pray for the OPP and our politicians.

I ask the cowards hiding behind their masks to take them off and show their faces. They won't because they are ashamed of what they have become.

We walk together hand in hand as a society of men and women. I ask that we hold hands and UNITE AS ONE CANADA and FREE OURSELVES FROM OUR OPPRESSION.

Sincerely,

NY Crimewatch

[Shakeyhands]

perhaps I was being too pessimistic. Deleted.

[Rue]

This passage is a classic example of a concept called "demonization" ..a process where we make it easier to stop listening to our opponents by engaging in words that depict them as violent and less then human.

Both sides do it in response to the other.

For me as a lawyer and a mediator all I will say is this-these same Warriors being depicted as lawless violent less then human beings are in fact humans and they are a direct reflection and consequence of the words and actions we choose to direct their way.

It is as simple as this-spit and you will be spat upon, respect and you will be respected back.

This only begins as it ends - when we put down the words as weapons and talk about what we can do not what we shouldn't do.

[Tsi Nikayen' Enonhne']

She:kon!

First of all, Skywoman, the owner of NYCrimeWatch is not native. He is a poser and was caught trying to pass of internet phrases he captured from Mohawk sites as conversational Mohawk. Especially what he presented did not even reflect real Mohawk language. He has no credibility and is nothing more than a basement circuit board junkie like Gary McHale.

As far as the warrior society and attempts to make people believe they are violent, let's look at who was arrested. 3 non-native men and 2 non-native women were arrested during the 3 hour rally October 15 for breaching the peace, while nearly 3500 Six Nations people held a peace rally and potluck supper 500 feet away. There were no native arrests, nor incidents that warranted any investigations.

The issues that are raised by contraries are meant to distract from the real issues occuring at Caledonia. The real issues have nothing to do with Caledonians per se, since the reclamation only affected a developer, the Government of Canada and Six Nations via the Haudenosaunee Confederacy. After a failed raid on the site by the OPP who attacked women and children with clubs and tasers, a number of blockades were erected in which to defend against further raids and to protect the women, children and old people occupying the site. This did inconvenience some Caledonians by requiring them to detour around the site, but no more than the road construction that seems to plague Ontario during the summer season. After a couple of weeks the detours were removed and since then negotiations have been on-going in attempts to resolve the issue of illegal land occupations by the government and its citizens. As it stands as of last week, the government has admitted that they cannot prove that the land lease for the Plank road (the issue affecting the reclamation site and Caledonia) and now have resolved that they will have to turn over the lands currently occupied. As late as this week, Premier McGuinty announced in the legislature that Six Nations has agreed to assume the cost of services, which is a precursor to the announcement that the lands are being handed back to Six Nations. There has been confrimation by the government that other lands within the Haldimand tract will also be settled before the final announcement to the public at large.

In essence dispite the ill-planned march organized by Gary Mchale and populated by Nazi supporters, skin-heads and sychphants, negotiations have been inching closer to final settlement. ONLY negotiation can solve disputes and the kinds of violent proposals such as the march orginally intended to stomp on the reclamation site but abandoned by a McTimid McHale, or the calls for army assaults on innocent people, are contrary to peaceful resolution. We have in our past faced violent opposition from many forces including police and citizens and the Canadian Armed Forces all of which were turned back and we are not afraid of hollow threats of more invasions onto our sovereign territories. However, in the end it was negotiation that ended the conflicts and negotiations that resolved and legitimized Haudenosaunee claims of territory and sovereignty and each time the government has backed away for finalizing the agreements made.

This time will be different. We have changed the rules of land claims. Oka, Ipperwash and other reclaims were merely tests. Kanonhstaton is the real thing and if your government refuses once again to live up to commitments made at the negotiation table, you as Canadians might well be prepared to be inconvenienced for a long time more. We are not a violent people, nor are we prone to attack in an offensive or aggressive manner. In fact the reclamation was made by merely walking ont the site and making the claim. No incidents, No threats. Not strong arming....However, we will defend our territories once occupied and our right to live peaceably therein. That is a reality that Canadians should get used to. We are NOT Canadians but a Nation of Haudenosaunee independent and sovereign in our own right!

Our Warriors are not an army. They are a militia raised from among ordinary men and women willing and able to defend our territories. This is nothing new in our society.

"For a people who are free, and who mean to remain so, a well-organized and armed militia is their best security. " Thomas Jefferson

Being a student of Haudenosaunee law, culture and principles it is no doubt that Jefferson gleaned this idea from us and it is as relevent today as it was 200 years ago......

O:nen

[Gayogoho]

The People of Kanonhstaton (The Protected Place) present Excerpts of The Great Law of Peace (Kayanerehkowa, Gayanashagowa)

Friday, October 27th - Tuesday, October 31st at the Iroquois Lacrosse Arena

#3201 Second Line, Six Nations of the Grand River Territory

FREE REGISTRATION

Open to ALL OUR RELATIONS from the East, the West, the North & the South

Presented by: Onondaga, Cayuga, Oneida & Akwesasne Men

Invited Speakers:

Haudenosaunee Titleholders and International Visitors

Please visit: http://www.thebasketcasegifts.ca/greatlaw/itinerary.html for more information and registration form.

Nya:weh

[deirdrie]

this is what you get when you talk out in caledonia

Joined: 15 Jun 2006

Posts: 689

Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 6:36 pm Post subject:

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It seems to me that most of the 49th is over here today.I guess they are trying to make excuses for their lame excuse for a rally.What i would like to know is....which one is married to that sorry excuse for a human AnnMarie VanSickle er Sicko er please McGuinty move that poor skank out of her home.She's an embarassment to the country.

[deirdrie]

again the natives break the law

Ontario is asking for Ottawa's help to look into billboards advertising cigarettes posted on a highway leading to the Six Nations' reserve near Caledonia.Ontario is asking for Ottawa's help to look into billboards advertising cigarettes posted on a highway leading to the Six Nations' reserve near Caledonia.

There are large signs on and off the Six Nations reserve advertising cigarettes, including one portraying a smiling bull with a feather between his horns, having a smoke.

Premier Dalton McGuinty says Ontario's Ministry of Transportation is taking a look to see if the signs violate a provincial ban on tobacco advertising.

And he says if the billboards break the law, then the ministry "will be taking action.''

Health Promotion Minister Jim Watson says the Smoke Free Ontario Act's ban on cigarette advertising does not apply to aboriginal reserves, which are a federal responsibility.

So Ontario has written Health Minister Tony Clement saying the Six Nations' billboards are clearly in violation of the federal law and asking him to investigate.

Watson is also upset that one billboard shows a cartoon bull smoking a cigarette, saying that's exactly the kind of youth-oriented advertising the ban is meant to eliminate.

He says the province is also talking with native leaders to enlist their help in fighting tobacco use, especially among young aboriginals.

[mister_v]

As far as the warrior society and attempts to make people believe they are violent, let's look at who was arrested. 3 non-native men and 2 non-native women were arrested during the 3 hour rally October 15 for breaching the peace, while nearly 3500 Six Nations people held a peace rally and potluck supper 500 feet away. There were no native arrests, nor incidents that warranted any investigations.

3500. Try perhaps a couple hundred.

As for the arrests, if the OPP had allowed the rally to go onto the DCE there wouldn't have been any arrests. Of course that doesn't take into consideration the likely arrests of natives who would have gone into a frenzy and attacked the non-native protestors without provocation the moment they stepped onto the occupied land.

The issues that are raised by contraries are meant to distract from the real issues occuring at Caledonia.

The real issue in Caledonia is a bunch of Six Nations people who can't accept the decisions their ancestors made. The land surrender documents are readily available in the public domain.

This did inconvenience some Caledonians by requiring them to detour around the site, but no more than the road construction that seems to plague Ontario during the summer season.

Ongoing harassment of those living adjacent to the DCE doesn't qualify as an "inconvenience". Nor does blockading a major roadway for weeks or vandalising public property.

After a couple of weeks the detours were removed and since then negotiations have been on-going in attempts to resolve the issue of illegal land occupations by the government and its citizens.

Detours. Very nice.

Too bad there aren't any lands being illegally occupied by Canadians. Its all Canada. Not yours.

As it stands as of last week, the government has admitted that they cannot prove that the land lease for the Plank road (the issue affecting the reclamation site and Caledonia) and now have resolved that they will have to turn over the lands currently occupied.

Surprising that this only turned up in Six Nations news. More wishful thinking on your part. The Confederacy spreads a rumour in order to placate their followers (who by no means make up a majority on the Six Nations reserve), brace them for the bad news that the government has stuck to its position that the land claim is, and always has been, complete crap.

As late as this week, Premier McGuinty announced in the legislature that Six Nations has agreed to assume the cost of services, which is a precursor to the announcement that the lands are being handed back to Six Nations.

This came in response to the uproar following the news that the government was paying for hydro to allow a bunch of fanatics to squat on the DCE.

Oka, Ipperwash and other reclaims were merely tests. Kanonhstaton is the real thing and if your government refuses once again to live up to commitments made at the negotiation table, you as Canadians might well be prepared to be inconvenienced for a long time more.

*yawn*. Threats of extortion. Oka and Ipperwash were like annoying little mosquitos buzzing around the dozing Canadian giant. Keep up your activities and you'll awaken the giant, to your great sorrow.

We are NOT Canadians but a Nation of Haudenosaunee independent and sovereign in our own right!

Happily, you are not sovereign. You are Canadian.

Our Warriors are not an army.

At least this sentence is true. They're a criminal organization, involved in drugs, smuggling and intimidation of natives who oppose them.

The big question, Gregg, is how are you able to look at yourself in the mirror? You've failed your people. With your mindset you keep them bogged down in looking backward, instead of walking forward to prosperity as part of Canada.

[Temagami Scourge]

Having actually been at Kanestaton on Sunday, a number of us were quite amused by the fact that it pretty much took hotdogs and liquor to halt the rally.

The important point, however, is that Sunday clearly illustrated the lack of conviction on the part of the anti-native racists in the rally, as compared to the celebrants at DCE. The fact that the rally's leader abandoned his flock at the critical point didn't help matters, and it illustrated how weak and pathetic the support was.

But I have to extend kudos to the Caledonians who came out to heckle the rally. I'd say that the anti-ralliers made up about half of the five hundred or so onlookers.

Given the fact that there were at least 2500 people on Kanestaton sharing food and stories, and that they stayed longer than their counterparts indicates a belief and sincerity that the ralliers lacked.

It is quite embarrassing.

I imagine that some folks are upset at the embarrassment the rally's abject failure turned out to be, but many folks thought that the rally would do good if a few dozen folks showed up, but I had to laugh at the "20,000" mad Canadians expected to "set matters straight".

Speaking of Canadians, I took a drive by the rally on Sunday before going over to DCE to see how our neighbours were doing at the rally. I was struck by two things:

1) There was barely a smiling face at the rally. Everyone looked sullen and hostile, and pretty much acted so, and;

2) The only people of color were either with the media or with the OPP.

Comparably, on Kanestaton, there were Jewish folks standing with Arab people, Sikh's, Afro-Canadians, Asian Canadians, Cauco-Canadians and a host of Natives, many from other reserves, and places like Hamilton, Toronto and London. Everyone was smiling and laughing, they were courteous with the Police and the people driving by, waving and offering words of greeting even if some people gave them the finger. Most honked in support, and it made everyone feel good.

These get-togethers are something special. it's too bad it had to happen under such disgusting circumstances, but it was wonderful having so many Caledonians standing with their Six Nations neighbours.

It really goes to show who believes in their cause to Ontario, Canada, and the world.

Way to go, Canada! thanks for standing with us on the 15th!

[deirdrie]

One of these days, we fear, there’s going to be real trouble at the site of a long-simmering land dispute in the southern Ontario town of Caledonia.

That’s trouble with a capital “T.” Not the kind of minor disturbance we witnessed on the past weekend, when a few hundred protesters gathered at the site to try and stir the government into action.

The only real signs of disturbance on the weekend came when cops arrested a couple of protesters for crossing police lines and two others for intoxication. These would be the same police, presumably, who have stood quietly by while Native protesters dug up roads, took over homes under construction and engaged in all manner of violence over the past eight months.

We worry that all hell will break loose before this is resolved, and when it does, we wonder how Premier Dalton McGuinty and his buddies at Queen’s Park will be able to look in the mirror.

The simple fact that we’re now eight months into the standoff tells us all we need to know about the leadership abilities of the current provincial government. Instead of insisting that the law be applied equally and evenly to all Ontario residents last February, when Natives illegally occupied the housing development site, the government stood meekly aside.

Police made one half-hearted attempt early in the occupation to oust the protesters, but backed off as soon as they dug in their heels.

Since then there has been plenty of hand-wringing, but the only real action from the provincial government has been to step in and pay a few million dollars to the developer whose land was seized in the uprising.

Henco Industries had planned to build 600 homes on the 40-hectare property. About 10 of those homes were under construction when protesters moved in Feb. 28. To this day, the houses sit half-finished — with red-and-yellow Native warrior flags fluttering on top of them, and the Natives vowing to stay for the winter.

Meanwhile, the tension between Native and non-Native residents hangs like a heavy mist in the air, while McGuinty mutters about his government and the feds being in the “process of negotiation” with the protesters, and getting “ongoing” advice from police.

That simply is not good enough. Laws are there for all Ontarians to obey. None of us gets to pick and choose. That’s a message the premier and his gang seem to have trouble understanding

[Tsi Nikayen' Enonhne']

She:kon!

The point that you have trouble understanding is that we are NOT Ontarians, or Canadians. We are Haudenosaunee Confederacy.

That makes ALL the difference.

O:nen

[Temagami Scourge]

Deirdrie:

The only real signs of disturbance on the weekend came when cops arrested a couple of protesters for crossing police lines and two others for intoxication. These would be the same police, presumably, who have stood quietly by while Native protesters dug up roads, took over homes under construction and engaged in all manner of violence over the past eight months.....Meanwhile, the tension between Native and non-Native residents hangs like a heavy mist in the air, while McGuinty mutters about his government and the feds being in the “process of negotiation” with the protesters, and getting “ongoing” advice from police.

Well honey, you have to admit that the only heavy mist hanging over Caledonia seems to be emanating from the hangovers of a handful of drunks. I think that the "level of tension" would greatly decrease once certain Caledonians put down the bottle and dry out a bit.

I feel badly for the numerous decent, hard-working Caledonians -whether they are Cauco- or Native Canadians, or anyone else, who are "guilty by association" for having a few drunken Cauco-canadians living among them.

After seeing the support we Natives had from numerous townspeople last Sunday, I reversed my stand about not shopping Caledonia, and I went to Zehrs to purchase food, and spend some money in town to help those who had their businesses impacted by the charges of racism hurled at the community.

Cheers!

[PocketRocket]

I have stayed out of this entire issue for quite some time for a couple reasons, the main one being that I don't feel I have full understanding of the issues.

But whenever I see this it sticks in my craw.....

The point that you have trouble understanding is that we are NOT Ontarians, or Canadians.

So, my question in reply to this oft-repeated statement is simple; Do you, and all your non-Canadian peers, have OHIP cards or Social Insurance Cards???

If the answer is no, please say so.

If the answer is yes, then I would put to you that you are prepared to take advantage of the benefits and priviledges of being a member of Canadian/Ontarian society.

I am sure at the time these treaties were laid out, that free health care was just one among many benefits currently available to you that were not included in the treaties, let alone even invisioned by the treaty participants.

Still not picking sides in this, and I am, in fact, glad that McHale showed his true colours for the nation to see.

This is simply an observation regarding the "We are not Canadian" attitude taken by many.

[Temagami Scourge]

Pocket:

I am sure at the time these treaties were laid out, that free health care was just one among many benefits currently available to you that were not included in the treaties, let alone even invisioned by the treaty participants.

Actually, Health care was indeed one of the major points the treaties are based on, that, and housing, tax exemption and a whole host of recognized rights. Some treaties go into greater detail, the the above are the main points.

I submit that the reason that we do have SIN numbers and Health cards is for ease of administrative use, and because the Crown unilaterally looks on Status Indians as citizens because the law the Crown made up on its own says so.

Too bad no one ever asked the indians, but that has been the norm.

I would also submit that these rights worked out to the advantage of Canadians in general as the exchange of land for rights allowed Canada to reap innumerable economic benefit from it, to what makes this country what it is today.

The only disappointing thing is that the Crown has consistently failed to deliver on its treaty obligations, only protects Native people now that the world is cognizant of Canada's poor human rights record respecting Native people, and still can't do a good job of it.

If anything, Canada got off cheap, and still reneges on its agreements for everyone else's benefit.

I hope that helps you understand what's going on.

[bradco]

Pocket:

I am sure at the time these treaties were laid out, that free health care was just one among many benefits currently available to you that were not included in the treaties, let alone even invisioned by the treaty participants.

Actually, Health care was indeed one of the major points the treaties are based on, that, and housing, tax exemption and a whole host of recognized rights. Some treaties go into greater detail, the the above are the main points.

I submit that the reason that we do have SIN numbers and Health cards is for ease of administrative use, and because the Crown unilaterally looks on Status Indians as citizens because the law the Crown made up on its own says so.

Too bad no one ever asked the indians, but that has been the norm.

I would also submit that these rights worked out to the advantage of Canadians in general as the exchange of land for rights allowed Canada to reap innumerable economic benefit from it, to what makes this country what it is today.

The only disappointing thing is that the Crown has consistently failed to deliver on its treaty obligations, only protects Native people now that the world is cognizant of Canada's poor human rights record respecting Native people, and still can't do a good job of it.

If anything, Canada got off cheap, and still reneges on its agreements for everyone else's benefit.

I hope that helps you understand what's going on.

"If anything, Canada got off cheap, and still reneges on its agreements for everyone else's benefit."

give me a break. Its comments like this that hurts the native cause. When hardworking, tax paying Canadians hear stuff like this why would you ever expect them to shell out billions more to help native communities. Natives, as citizens of this country, receive all the same benefits and more while putting in, on average, a heck of a lot less. And then after this they cry about injustice and call Canadians racist. You cant receive extra benefits and cry about being oppressed at the same time. Its not reasonable to have your cake and eat it too. Personally I have troubles feeling sympathy for anyone who encourages double standards. The government does a lot to help native communities and I think you ought to realize this. Maybe they should do more maybe they should do less, thats up for debate. I think the problem is too many people (native and non-native) want the government to hold their hand all the way through life instead of putting effort in themselves.

[deirdrie]

Just as one storm cloud cleared over Caledonia, another settled in over cigarette billboards along Highway 6 that advertise Six Nations tobacco products and stores.

Some of the signs are on the reserve, some of them are off the reserve and some are within provincial highway right-of-ways.

A Health Canada official said they have notified their inspectors in the region and an investigation has been launched.

Tobacco companies are banned from advertising on billboards in Canada but the Six Nations people argue they are a sovereign nation and therefore not governed by Canadian laws.

A spokesperson for the federal health minister said any contravention of the ban on tobacco advertising would be "unforgivable."

Six Nations spokespeople were enraged by the controversy, saying it was just a ploy to divert attention from the main issue: land claims.

"We are not Canadians and we are not subjected to Canadian laws," said spokesperson Hazel Hill. "We adhere to the Great Law and Canada had better just back off. They're trying to force their taxes on us. They have no say on what happens on Six Nations."

Even if signs are off the traditional reserve land, Hill said they are within 10 kilometres of the Grand River and therefore part of their territory.

"I could put a sign in the middle of Caledonia and it'd be our territory. This is about land claims. (Canada) stole the land and now they have to deal with it."

Ontario's Aboriginal Affairs Minister David Ramsay said the tobacco signs won't scuttle talks at the main table -- set to resume Friday -- because they do not have anything to do with the land claims.

"There has to be an even application of the law, and that's all that's happening," he said, adding day-to-day issues come up in every community.

Tobacco was a hot issue at the rally Sunday in Caledonia organized by a Richmond Hill couple.

Haldimand Mayor Marie Trainer complained she would not be allowed to put an election sign where some of the tobacco signs are because of highway right-of-way regulations.

"It's two different laws. (Caledonia residents) want the signs down," she said.

Jim Watson, the province's minister of health promotion, pointed to one billboard which has a cartoon bull on it as an old "trick" used by tobacco companies to attract young people.

"This is a health issue: no one should be advertising tobacco products."

Six Nations spokesperson Janie Jamieson said if Canada is concerned about the health of First Nations people, there are many unaddressed problems beyond the use of tobacco.

Yesterday, Ontario's Transportation Minister Donna Cansfield told the legislature the tobacco billboards were being removed but contradicted herself minutes later, outside the House, when she told reporters the province was investigating the roadside signs to determine if their placement violates Ontario's Highway Traffic Act

[Temagami Scourge]

Hey Deary:

How come you haven't posted anything about Anne-Marie sickle's brother being deported? If the man is in Canada illegally, and taking work from a Canadian, then he should be deported.

How come you haven't told anyone that this illegal alien, who has ben living and working here for the past few years, was part of the "March for Freedom?" Is that the kind of people that are attracted to anti-Native protests? Illegal aliens stirring up the pot for no one's benefit?

Come on Anne-Marie...we need to know more about this man's deportation! Fill us in! Anne-marie made a wonderful post about how oppressed she is living beside the Natives, so why can't she answer a questions about her brother's illegal alien status, and how he kept a Canadian from working because he was willing to do it cheaper?

Please...enlighten us all!

[bradco]

"We are not Canadians and we are not subjected to Canadian laws," said spokesperson Hazel Hill. "We adhere to the Great Law and Canada had better just back off. They're trying to force their taxes on us. They have no say on what happens on Six Nations."

I wonder if they would be singing the same tune if we cut them off from all the benefits of being Canadian and all the extra goodies we give out to the native population. Typical, wanting all the benefits and more but none of the costs of living in a civilized society.

[Tsi Nikayen' Enonhne']

She:kon!

The Canadian government has acknowledged that the trust fund held on behalf of Six nations by the Crown is missing and unaccounted for.

The trust fund and money's owed for back rent (not including the illegal occupations and squatters) is estimated at 80 billion dollars. At a minimum 5% interest the government of Canada owes Six nations roughly 400 million per year. Six Nations receives about 80 million each year (less than half of the transfers municipalities of the same size receive) in transfers from the government. This means that Canada is sinking into a $320 million hole per year and of course another billion is added to the fund every 2 1/2 years.

The real estate value of the lands that have been illegally transfered and occupied without our consent is estimated to be in excess of $1 trillion dollars. Perhaps if you paid what you owe in full, we would be more than willing to give up inferior education and health care and develop our own compatible systems. Perhaps if all the resource extraction and industrial development conducted on our lands were to be evicted you might get a sense of what it means to come to negotiation and deal honestly and fairly.

Any negotiation between us begins with us in the superior position being owed trillions of dollars (accumulating billions more each year in unsettled debt). We are not so naive to negotiate ourselves into a loss. I would suggest that you start loking for a new place to live since it is only a matter o time before your government gives us your house and land in exchange for a debt they cannot pay back.

O:nen

[bradco]

She:kon!

The Canadian government has acknowledged that the trust fund held on behalf of Six nations by the Crown is missing and unaccounted for.

The trust fund and money's owed for back rent (not including the illegal occupations and squatters) is estimated at 80 billion dollars. At a minimum 5% interest the government of Canada owes Six nations roughly 400 million per year. Six Nations receives about 80 million each year (less than half of the transfers municipalities of the same size receive) in transfers from the government. This means that Canada is sinking into a $320 million hole per year and of course another billion is added to the fund every 2 1/2 years.

The real estate value of the lands that have been illegally transfered and occupied without our consent is estimated to be in excess of $1 trillion dollars. Perhaps if you paid what you owe in full, we would be more than willing to give up inferior education and health care and develop our own compatible systems. Perhaps if all the resource extraction and industrial development conducted on our lands were to be evicted you might get a sense of what it means to come to negotiation and deal honestly and fairly.

Any negotiation between us begins with us in the superior position being owed trillions of dollars (accumulating billions more each year in unsettled debt). We are not so naive to negotiate ourselves into a loss. I would suggest that you start loking for a new place to live since it is only a matter o time before your government gives us your house and land in exchange for a debt they cannot pay back.

O:nen

I think being the victorious power over a conquered group actually gives us the upper hand in negotiation. We dont really have to negotiate anything. Its only because of our benevolence that anything goes the other way.

The land was conquered/settled in an era when international laws and norms saw this as the agreed upon way of doing business (probably not a good thing but thats the way it was). I honestly dont see any legal entitlement to any land.

[Riverwind]

Any negotiation between us begins with us in the superior position being owed trillions of dollars (accumulating billions more each year in unsettled debt). We are not so naive to negotiate ourselves into a loss. I would suggest that you start loking for a new place to live since it is only a matter o time before your government gives us your house and land in exchange for a debt they cannot pay back.

Tsi, your naivety is amusing. Hell will freeze over before SN sees anything close to $1 trillion. In fact, making such claims will simply re-enforces my argument that it is impossible to give natives what they want so we shouldn't even bother trying.

[Tsi Nikayen' Enonhne']

She:kon!

I think being the victorious power over a conquered group actually gives us the upper hand in negotiation. We dont really have to negotiate anything. Its only because of our benevolence that anything goes the other way.

The land was conquered/settled in an era when international laws and norms saw this as the agreed upon way of doing business (probably not a good thing but thats the way it was). I honestly dont see any legal entitlement to any land.

You really should break out some legal books. The claim Six Nations has over the Haldimand Tract is a legal claim that has been validated by the federal government. The only problem is what to do with those of you that live there. You opinion doesn't matter anyway, since we have already convinced the provincial and federal governments to expect more similar land reclamations unless they willingly and honestly come to the table. Our bargining chip? Taking the land back and making YOUR government prove their claim to us. So far they admitted they can't. We'll see what breaks tomorrow......

You should also break out the history books. If it wasn't for the Haudenosaunee allied with the Crown, you would very well be just another American Bushite under the command of a warmonger and moron. We have never been conquered and the only thing that saved the British ass from our wrath was a peace treaty called the Covanent Chain.

It is good to see another ignorant Canadian underestimating us. THAT already gives us the upper hand in any negotiation....

O:nen

[bradco]

She:kon!

I think being the victorious power over a conquered group actually gives us the upper hand in negotiation. We dont really have to negotiate anything. Its only because of our benevolence that anything goes the other way.

The land was conquered/settled in an era when international laws and norms saw this as the agreed upon way of doing business (probably not a good thing but thats the way it was). I honestly dont see any legal entitlement to any land.

You really should break out some legal books. The claim Six Nations has over the Haldimand Tract is a legal claim that has been validated by the federal government. The only problem is what to do with those of you that live there. You opinion doesn't matter anyway, since we have already convinced the provincial and federal governments to expect more similar land reclamations unless they willingly and honestly come to the table. Our bargining chip? Taking the land back and making YOUR government prove their claim to us. So far they admitted they can't. We'll see what breaks tomorrow......

You should also break out the history books. If it wasn't for the Haudenosaunee allied with the Crown, you would very well be just another American Bushite under the command of a warmonger and moron. We have never been conquered and the only thing that saved the British ass from our wrath was a peace treaty called the Covanent Chain.

It is good to see another ignorant Canadian underestimating us. THAT already gives us the upper hand in any negotiation....

O:nen

You fail to realize the government can always just say no and there is nothing you could do about it. Either way Im all for giving native populations a little land that they had actually done something with before the arrival of Europeans. Of course any improvements made to the land would have to be paid for or we would just take them/demolish them for scraps. Then after the natives choose to relocate (the ones who do) the federal government can stop providing them any benefits as they refuse to be a part of Canada. Unfortunatly, and I honestly believe this is incredibly unfortunate, but I think within a few years there would be a significant amount of poeple begging to be included back in Canada. I would love to see the native population flourish and increase their average standard of living but its difficult to see that happening anytime in the near future.

Really what the natives have in their favour is public opinion. It is a black mark on our country to have a group, on average, completely unable to rescue itself from poverty despite the extra help already provided. I think most Canadians desperatly want to see natives better off and support land claims in the hopes that it might help the native populations and remove this blackmark on Canada. But as you increase demands and start evicting tax paying Canadians from the homes they bought and have attitudes towards them that you put forth on this board the public opinion will fall. Then the government might just have to say no more.

"We have never been conquered and the only thing that saved the British ass from our wrath was a peace treaty called the Covanent Chain. "

Never conquered yet you lost all your land...I think Im missing something?? Being duped into a treaty and then taken over doesn't sound all that much better. Either way if the British wanted to bother going head to head in battle it would have been a complete victory. Much easier and smarter to take the land without battle as they did I guess.

[Tsi Nikayen' Enonhne']

She:kon!

Again, you don't know what you are talking about.

Six Nations never lost any land. We leased some of it which were subsequently turned into illegal title and much more was occupied by Canadian squatters. Under Canadian law, all we need do (and did do for the past 200 years) was to remind the government those on our lands were ours. Legally that gives us continuous title.

The government recognizes the title to our lands and its unceded nature. Their problem politically is what to do with the illegal squatters, not wanting to displace them or inconvenience them. At some point our patience will run out and we may end up starting to evict many of you. That will get the government to action just as quick as the eviction and reclamation did at Caledonia.

The funny thing is there is little squat that you or your ignorant cohorts can do about it....except whine like the Clownedonians. It gets them occasional notice from the media but even they are bored with what they consider a non-issue.

Enjoy the 21st century. Where Six Nations is concerned it will not be like the 19th or the 20th. Guaranteed!

O:nen

[Temagami Scourge]

Brad:

I think being the victorious power over a conquered group actually gives us the upper hand in negotiation. We dont really have to negotiate anything. Its only because of our benevolence that anything goes the other way.

laddie.....would you mind telling me exactly which war (or set of wars) you are referring to? As far as I'm aware, you appear to be unduly influenced by American cowboy movies, but I could be wrong.

Please...what Canadian wars do you mean?

The land was conquered/settled in an era when international laws and norms saw this as the agreed upon way of doing business (probably not a good thing but thats the way it was). I honestly dont see any legal entitlement to any land.

OK...now I know you are talking about American history. If such a "conquering" occured, then why does Canada even recognize reserves and makes (sparse) treaty annuities? Do you know anything about Canadian history or law?