"Labrador communities fear losing net connection"...

[watching&waiting]

This is stupid and is getting dumber by the day. I live in Ont. I can not get high speed at my home because I am rural, so I have the satellite setup so my wifes can work from home half the time and I also keep sympatico dial up for my own use as I am on a disability pension there is no real need to get my downloads instantly . I pay for this myself. If the people in Labradour want internet let them pay for it themselves. I do not care about their isolation and I do not want to even hear about how they are owed anything. It is 100% BS and needs to be stopped. They wanted to live there so they could keep their old ways, so let them do exacyly that. Not one penny for them is what I say, and no I am not from Alberta. But I am sure able to see wated money on no good causes.

Those who defend giving into these peoplke are IDIOTS, to say the least, and if it were up to me. I would have a one time referendum that would ask if we should leave these people to their old ways or should we force them into our taowns. If they do not come into areas work they can perfom work then we cut them off completely. No more warm and fuzzies for them.

Let my recap a few things from previous posts:

- This program doesn not pay for Internet in individuals' homes. This is a community-based Internet with regulations on how it can or can't be used.

- This program (CAP) is available across all of Canada, so it's not just in Newfoundland and Labrador but also in Alberta, BC and Ontario

- Read my last post about the fishermen

I wonder if your satellite setup is claimed on your income tax as a business expense or if the company your wife works for pays for most of the cost?

What would your feelings be if the govt. told you that you could no longer claim that as a business expense or if the company said that if your wife wants to work from home then she (and yourself) would have to pay for 100% of the cost.

And in regard to your desire for a massive urban utopia; without people working in rural areas, how would the manufacturing sector survive with the raw resources from rural areas?

Boy are you wrong on that one. No it is not paid for by the wife's work and no we do not claim it on our income tax. I do get a discount on it because my brother is the dealer of these and he has me on a special purchase. BTW he told me last weekend the cost of equipment is now down to $349.00. So tell these people to forgo a bottle of liquor per month and they can have their internet, but I am 100% against the government paying a penny towards this issue.

I have sympatico dial up for me and the sat costs me $60 per month, so between the two that is $84.95 per month. We pay that and do not get help from the government. If I could not afford it I would have to do without now wouldn't I. Man you just do not get it. Nobdy owes you anything. You owe the country of Canada for all the infastructure and all the toys you have. There never seems to be a shortage of skidoos up in Labrador, and I see lots of trucks and motorcycles there as well. Either you live by your old ways, which do not include internet, or you come down to the cities and get a job.

[Led Boots]

Trying to interpret your signature... "racist, intolerant, small-minded bigot". Is this something you are proud of?

I'm starting to think it's his autobiography.

Hydraboss I've consulted the Alberta team and we want you off of the island by next Monday.

I may not agree with the premise of this thread but you're digusting dude.

[Hydraboss]

Led, I appreciate your input on the matter.

I believe in fairness and equality in ALL of Canada. Transfer payments were created to ensure that essential services were made available equally in Canada. Internet is not an essential service. Why are all working Canadians paying for it?

So you think I'm disgusting? Care to specify why? What is it you don't like about my comments? I have a ton of eastern guys working for me, and they will tell you firsthand what the coast is like. There is no more credible witness to that situation than people born and raised there.

If you don't like my comments, dispute them. Want to take cheap shots? Go ahead. I am more than capable of defending myself. My views have never been hidden in any of the threads that I have posted in. Go ahead and check.

Until you have something of value to say, why not sit quietly.

[Rovik]

Boy are you wrong on that one. No it is not paid for by the wife's work and no we do not claim it on our income tax. I do get a discount on it because my brother is the dealer of these and he has me on a special purchase. BTW he told me last weekend the cost of equipment is now down to $349.00. So tell these people to forgo a bottle of liquor per month and they can have their internet, but I am 100% against the government paying a penny towards this issue.

I have sympatico dial up for me and the sat costs me $60 per month, so between the two that is $84.95 per month. We pay that and do not get help from the government. If I could not afford it I would have to do without now wouldn't I. Man you just do not get it. Nobdy owes you anything. You owe the country of Canada for all the infastructure and all the toys you have. There never seems to be a shortage of skidoos up in Labrador, and I see lots of trucks and motorcycles there as well. Either you live by your old ways, which do not include internet, or you come down to the cities and get a job.

First, I didn't say you were using it as a tax break or the company paid for it as a fact, I said I wondered. I know of people who would try to claim it as a tax break if they could and i also know someone who has high speed Internet access at home (all paid for by her company) because she needs it to do her job.

Secondly, I asked you what were you feelings if? It wasn't an accusation, it was a simple question.

Third, what you may have seen were the natives (Innu, Inuit and Metis.) They receive monies that many of the rest of us don't get (and that includes non-native Labradorians) and they tend to purchase trucks , motorbikes and snowmobiles. Of course, many natives across the country also receive these monies so it's not just a Labrador thing. I admit that the monies to the natives is abused quite often and I believe needs to be changed to include better monitoring and accountibility to prevent abuse.

Fourth, many believe that Canada has benefitted more then Newfoundland since Confederation and it's Newfoundland, not Canada who came up with the short end of the stick. I posted this in another thread about this including a link to the study.

[Led Boots]

Led, I appreciate your input on the matter.

I believe in fairness and equality in ALL of Canada. Transfer payments were created to ensure that essential services were made available equally in Canada. Internet is not an essential service. Why are all working Canadians paying for it?

I agree.

So you think I'm disgusting? Care to specify why? What is it you don't like about my comments?

What I find disgusting about your comments is the blanket statement that all fishermen from Newfoundland are lazy. I know lazy f*king millwrights from Alberta too, the only difference between a lazy f*king fisherman from Newfound land and a lazy f*king millwright from Alberta is that the lazy f*king millwright from Alberta has a job…today that is. If oil went down to 10 bucks a barrel tomorrow the lazy f*king millwright from Alberta would become a lazy f*king unemployed millwright from Alberta with no job and same propensity for suckling off the federal teet as any other lazy person in the country.

I have a ton of eastern guys working for me, and they will tell you firsthand what the coast is like. There is no more credible witness to that situation than people born and raised there.

Ya…join the club. I told a guy last week that I was a native Calgarian and he asked for my autograph. It went for 3 bucks on E-Bay. Now he wants another one.

If you don't like my comments, dispute them. Want to take cheap shots? Go ahead. I am more than capable of defending myself. My views have never been hidden in any of the threads that I have posted in. Go ahead and check.

I consider phrases like “lazy f*king fisherman” to be the cheapest of cheap shots. It’s right up there with “racist f*king redneck Albertan’s” on my list.

Until you have something of value to say, why not sit quietly.

I’ll reiterate my position on this issue then. I don’t think a penny of federal funds should go into this program, if the people living the in rural areas of Canada want internet access and can’t afford it they should look for a solution that doesn’t include handouts from the federal government. Pool your resources (as limited as they may be) and gain access through a community effort, sell the chevy, steal a dish from a neighboring community…what ever it takes.

If the money spent on this program was going to improving healthcare in rural communities or something along those lines I would probably be on board with Rovik and Higgly…I see this as a beer and popcorn issue but maybe that’s just the Albertan in me.

[Hydraboss]

Actually, the signature is something I was called on this board because I am a conservative. The member is now banned, but I wanted the stupid comment to live on....

It's not a contest. It's a difference of opinion about the entitlement of regional peoples in Canada. Poor, poor east coast people. Big, bad, rich "others". I find the stereotyping abhorent, and therefore I will stereotype all fishermen as a group to illicit the expected response.

Led, read again what I wrote about the fishermen. This group of people is representative of way, way too many groups throughout Canada. I have said the same things about the unemployed in Alberta (but they were not the subject of this thread, this time). I was in Alberta when oil went below $10, and I didn't sit on my ass. I moved to get a job, family and all.

I believe that ANYONE who sits on EI for half a year or more as a lifestyle is f*cking lazy. Everyone wants the finer things in life, but not everyone believes they should have to work for it. That alone makes me sick.

The whole internet for free issue is a symtom of a much larger problem in this country, and until the political will is there to end this social communism it will continue to worsen. Got $20? Give me 8 just cause I want it. It's my right, you know.

[jbg]

This is stupid and is getting dumber by the day. I live in Ont. I can not get high speed at my home because I am rural, so I have the satellite setup so my wifes can work from home half the time and I also keep sympatico dial up for my own use as I am on a disability pension there is no real need to get my downloads instantly .

Maybe the people who defend it aren't IDIOTS. Maybe you would be SMART to move to Labrador. I here Nain is a nice place, especially in winter.

[Jack Weber]

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Edited February 20, 2011 by Jack Weber

[William Ashley]

It is a false premise that the only way to connect is via a satalite.

I can think of atleast three ways of doing this without satalite.

Take for instance something like

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cell_site

It would cost way less than a billion dollars to set up a hispeed wireless relay from labrador to quebec. It simply isn't the most cost effecitve answer.

Working out a max range of up to 35 km we can see how many towers would be required for relay.

http://computer.howstuffworks.com/wimax1.htm

rolling out free public internet accross canada wouldn't be incredible expensive..

These towers could also be modified for stealth aircraft detection amongst other communication capacities such as "remote monitoring of surroundings of the tower" through high resolution optics systems. amongst other uses.

http://www.wimax360.com/forum/topics/610217:Topic:87261?commentId=610217%3AComment%3A87856

watch the video and read the blurb here.. this is 50km range.

http://www.wimax.com/general/what-is-wimax

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WiMAX

all of labrador is 294,330 square kilometres

each tower is said to be 8000 square KM - however not all of labrador needs to be covered only populated areas and the line intersects between them.

you need not even have towers in unpopulated areas only micrawave rebroadcast stations - something that could also have military applications if multimissioned.

for example one tower in each comunity (1 tower would be large enough to fully blanket each labradoran community) with microwave rebroadcasters ever 20 km or so.

Something like 250 relays and 15 or so towers should be enough to give high speed internet access to all of labrador.

This should be well under 50 million to set up. 200x less the 1 billion price tag.

I've seen 10x (40 gb/s) this amount by IEEE however a standard microwave wireless line (station relays) could provide 2-4 GB/s

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=microwave+bandwidth+gb%2Fs&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=

that works out to about 1mb/s to 4000+ people if they were all using it at the same time.

labradors total population is said to be between 25000 and 30000 peoples.

on the cost savings alone you could run new lines every year if needed. doubling bandwidth each year.

at satalite speed rates about 500kb/s --- 8 or 9000 people could be serviced at the same quality level.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Telecom_microwave_network

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave_radio_relay#Microwave_radio_relay

even self funding this type of project assuming 50% subscribership is self funding within 10 years. (at a $40/year price tag per subscriber this could be paid off in a year with "normal" internet service providers.. still a fraction of the cost of satalite.)

At $40 per month in technology subscribership labrador could see its network capacity multiply annually by 4gb/s (although the 40gb/s system is what the most recent techs could acomplish)

this means more or less that within 5 years they could have a 20gb/s capacity - or with modern tech 200gb/s (more than enough for 25000 people's communication needs.

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=6&ved=0CCwQFjAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.omartodd.com%2Fresumes%2FOtoddwirelessexample.doc&ei=Z65iTcSJHofagAeS_aX3AQ&usg=AFQjCNE6x2qDtzU-R7FV_uCYuGaEv6rDLQ&sig2=dMZ1in9P11-snuVuZ3hNHw

take a look at the cost rundown here for a general idea.. however these costs are not necisarily fully representative, they give an introduction.

http://www.rand.org/pubs/research_memoranda/RM3762/RM3762.chap5.html

all towers are inexpensive in heights below about 60 feet; cost rises rapidly with height, but a guyed tower of satisfactory quality can be purchased--at retail--for less than $500. As a cost safety margin, this figure will be increased and it will be supposed that all prefabricated sections and parts necessary to erect a sturdy 150-ft tower can be purchased for about $700.

Edited February 21, 2011 by William Ashley