What a load

[B. Max]

"Muslims have noted with concern that the values of tolerance are eroding and there is now shrinking space for others' religious, social and cultural values in the West,"

I'm sorry our backwards culture can't appreciate firing rockets into Israel and chopping necks.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/reuters/interna...cartoons_oic_dc

[Great Pharoah]

Hey B.Max

I think your response to that quote should only be applied to the extremists. For the most part, I agree with the statement. Many westerners( not all, do not accept the lifestyles and ideoligies of other cultures). Its almost as if Rudyard Kiplings poem is starting to apply all over again. But I do agree with you that tolerance for violence should be non.e

[Charles Anthony]

From that article, I prefer to quote this:

Danish state TV on Friday broadcast amateur video footage showing members of the anti-immigrant Danish Peoples' Party (DPP) at a summer camp in August, drinking, singing and taking part in a competition to draw images mocking the Prophet.

This is completely disgusting and a provocation by racists -- certainly an abuse of tax-payers' money.

Sorry, B.Max, but somehow I find that the airing of disgusting racism on state television is out-of-order.

Just as an observation, most modern science fiction (novels / drama) portray futuristic inter-galactic civilization as multicultural. They have humans and humanoids of all sorts living together. War between them is usually a conflict of wealth or controlling resources -- as opposed to petty and trivial things such as the sizes or shapes or creed of the various races.

[Biblio Bibuli]

Its almost as if Rudyard Kiplings poem is starting to apply all over again.

Isn't that the guy who wrote:

For all we have and are

For all our children's fate

Stand up and take the war

Muslims are at the gate!

[jbg]

"Muslims have noted with concern that the values of tolerance are eroding and there is now shrinking space for others' religious, social and cultural values in the West,"

I'm sorry our backwards culture can't appreciate firing rockets into Israel and chopping necks.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/reuters/interna...cartoons_oic_dc

They're "tolerance" goes one way. I'm a big believer in reciprocality; if they don't tolerate us, we have no need for them.

[gc1765]

They're "tolerance" goes one way. I'm a big believer in reciprocality; if they don't tolerate us, we have no need for them.

If the majority of muslims showed tolerance towards you, and some showed intolerance, would you be tolerant of muslims in general?

[jbg]

They're "tolerance" goes one way. I'm a big believer in reciprocality; if they don't tolerate us, we have no need for them.

If the majority of muslims showed tolerance towards you, and some showed intolerance, would you be tolerant of muslims in general?

More like, why should we toelrate Islam and let them run us in circles in our own countries when they cut off our heads if we move there?

[gc1765]

More like, why should we toelrate Islam and let them run us in circles in our own countries when they cut off our heads if we move there?

I tolerate moderate muslims whether they live here in North America, or in the middle east. I have no tolerance for muslims who "cut off our heads" whether they live the middle east or here in North America.

Not sure about the middle east, but I think the majority of muslims in North America are tolerant. Are you tolerant of North American muslims?

[jbg]

Not sure about the middle east, but I think the majority of muslims in North America are tolerant. Are you tolerant of North American muslims?

If they dedicate themselves to their new homes, and not to the affairs of the "old country", of course.

[Michael Hardner]

A great quote:

"" The face of terror is not the true faith of Islam. That's not what

Islam is all about. Islam is peace. " "

Who said it ?

[Borg]

Do not know who said it but some Arab colleagues of mine told me Islam actaully translates into submit.

In fact they used to tell me "Submit or die".

Fortunately I was well armed and had a few friends along at the time.

No muslim will go against the mullah - what he says is what happens.

borg

[Michael Hardner]

It was George W Bush...

[Rue]

Hey B.Max

I think your response to that quote should only be applied to the extremists. For the most part, I agree with the statement. Many westerners( not all, do not accept the lifestyles and ideoligies of other cultures). Its almost as if Rudyard Kiplings poem is starting to apply all over again. But I do agree with you that tolerance for violence should be non.e

I totally support your comments.

[Rue]

Salim Mansur writes for the Toronto Sun. He is a Political Science Professor at University of Western Ontario. There are many more like him who are good Muslim people who come out and denounce violence and are not afraid to criticize those people who in the name of Islam engage in terrorism.

Right now in Canada and in particular in Toronto, moderate members of the Islamic community are engaged in heated debate with the fundamentalists in their community and being accused of being traitors and threatened.

Please. We must not forget that many Muslims in Canada or the US are loyal to the country and do not believe in terrorism.

It is tempting to scapegoat or generalize but we shouldn't. If the moderate Muslims are too grow and

have any chance to defeat the terrorists in their midst they need our help and support and not lumping them in the same category as terrorists.

Look we all know in the Muslim world outside Canada, the cold hard reality is their society is not where ours is at. They are only beginning to develop critical reasoning for the simple reason the vast majority still do not read or write and depend on a cleric to tell them how to think. It could take many more years until they evolve to the point of seeing things in less fundamentalist terms.

I mean look at us. We are supposedly more critical in our reasoning and yet we often are bullied and manipulated by our own extremists.

If you ask me I don't feel good lumping in all Muslims in one category or generalizing. Yes they are more fundamentalist then us, and yes we know Iran, Iraq, Egypt, etc.., are far different from us but please understand in Iran, Iraq, Egypt, are Muslims who want peace and individual freedoms and are powerless right now to confront their tyranical regimes or terrorists.

I hate all terrorists equally. If they are Muslim, the fact that they are Muslim to me is no different then if they were Jewish, Christian or anything else. I hate them because they are terrorists not because of the religious views they spew out but because they are violent and use religion as a pretext to be psycho.

I hate everyone equally!

[Borg]

Rue

When the mullah tells the "moderates" to get busy and create some "action" in Canada - they will act. Religion is more important than moderatism - if that is indeed a word.

No such thing as a moderate - if a mullah orders - the muslim obeys.

Borg

[Argus]

Salim Mansur writes for the Toronto Sun. He is a Political Science Professor at University of Western Ontario. There are many more like him who are good Muslim people who come out and denounce violence and are not afraid to criticize those people who in the name of Islam engage in terrorism.

True, and he also pointed out in a recent column that the "mainstream" of Islam as represented by its most powerful, most well-known and influential clerics and government ministers - is violently ant-western and anti-Jewish.

Within the Arab Sunni world the Egyptian-born Sheikh Qaradawi, 80, of Qatar, is the face of institutionalized Islam. He is the closest to what might pass for a titular head of Muslims akin to the Pope. Qaradawi's words, now broadcast by television network al-Jazeerah, are taken as authoritative pronouncements of Islam. He is the "spiritual" leader of the Muslim Brotherhood, a movement formed to repudiate freedom and democracy, and a defender of Islam's war against the West by any means, including suicide bombings - Salim Mansur

And you might read what Ayaan Hirsi Ali has to say in today's Star.

The Somali-born Hirsi Ali, 36, who resigned in May from the Dutch parliament and now works at a neo-con Washington think-tank, refuses to be silenced on either topic. During an interview the day after speaking at the Grano dinner series this week, she launches a full-blown assault on Islam's incompatibility with the open societies of the West.

"The basic tenets of Islam and the basic tenets of the rule of law are mutually exclusive," she says.

Stoking Fundamentalist Fury

[mcqueen625]

From that article, I prefer to quote this:

Danish state TV on Friday broadcast amateur video footage showing members of the anti-immigrant Danish Peoples' Party (DPP) at a summer camp in August, drinking, singing and taking part in a competition to draw images mocking the Prophet.

This is completely disgusting and a provocation by racists -- certainly an abuse of tax-payers' money.

Sorry, B.Max, but somehow I find that the airing of disgusting racism on state television is out-of-order.

Just as an observation, most modern science fiction (novels / drama) portray futuristic inter-galactic civilization as multicultural. They have humans and humanoids of all sorts living together. War between them is usually a conflict of wealth or controlling resources -- as opposed to petty and trivial things such as the sizes or shapes or creed of the various races.

I these people are immigrating to a western country they should expect to having to adopt a western lifestyle. Why should the host country change the way they live in order to make some immigrant feel at home. Damn it they are not home, they have come to another country for the most part to improve their lots in life, so tell me again why the peoples in that culture should change to accodate immigrants. If they want to retain their culture do it at home, but don't expect the taxpayers of the host country to foot the bill so immigrants can feel all cozy. If they don't want to adapt to western values, then maybe they should think twice before boarding that plane.

In Ontario, Muslim extremists even attempted to have the Government of Ontario adopt Sheria Law. Fortunately, through lobbying McGintey changed his mind, because initially he thought it was a good idea (another Liberal moron). Sheria Law would specifically target Muslim women and allow some Imam to impose archiac traditions on Muslim women right here in Canada. Sheria Law has no place in Canada, and if these people want to live under that ancient, backward traditions then maybe they should think seriously about going back to their place of birth.

[Borg]

Why go back to the place of birth? Those areas are already converted.

Far better to come here. Sooner or later some liberal will allow Sharia and then the conversion can really begin.

There are a lot of Daltons out there - proof is on these boards.

It is not a matter of if - it is a matter of when.

Is multi-culturalism not something that strengthens this country? Seems to me that the vast majority of Canadians believe it to be so. Certainly it is promoted in the media and by the government that multi-culturalism will be what saves this country.

So Sharia will come and we will be a better country for it. It is pre-ordained. Thanks libs for making this country what it is today.

Borg

[Charles Anthony]

Damn it they are not home, they have come to another country for the most part to improve their lots in life, so tell me again why the peoples in that culture should change to accodate immigrants.

I do not feel like immigrants are imposing anything upon me at all.

If they want to retain their culture do it at home, but don't expect the taxpayers of the host country to foot the bill so immigrants can feel all cozy. If they don't want to adapt to western values, then maybe they should think twice before boarding that plane.

I do not care how people adapt. Respecting eachothers freedom is good enough for me. As a person born in Canada, I feel no need nor desire to be xenophobic towards people who are not born in Canada.

In Ontario, Muslim extremists even attempted to have the Government of Ontario adopt Sheria Law. Fortunately,

You are seriously bringing that up???

I would say that unfortunately, people like you have no understanding over that issue. Nobody was demanding the Ontario Government adopt Sharia Law. The request was to allow people to mediate civil disputes under the tenets of Sharia Law when both parties of the dispute consent. The Government of Ontario permits this for other religious groups.

So Sharia will come and we will be a better country for it. It is pre-ordained. Thanks libs for making this country what it is today.

No, it will not. Do you know anything about civil mediation in your province????

In criminal matters, everybody follows the same criminal law.

[Borg]

So Sharia will come and we will be a better country for it. It is pre-ordained. Thanks libs for making this country what it is today.

No, it will not. Do you know anything about civil mediation in your province????

In criminal matters, everybody follows the same criminal law.

Yes I do and it does not matter - it will come as it is and then slowly be expanded.

It is becuse people will not believe - much like you that it will happen.

Slowly - ever so slowly.

A much improved Canada will exist. That must be so because it will be allowed.

Borg

[Borg]

If they want to retain their culture do it at home, but don't expect the taxpayers of the host country to foot the bill so immigrants can feel all cozy. If they don't want to adapt to western values, then maybe they should think twice before boarding that plane.

I do not care how people adapt. Respecting eachothers freedom is good enough for me. As a person born in Canada, I feel no need nor desire to be xenophobic towards people who are not born in Canada.

That is a fine way to think. Unfortunately it is in itself a very parochial thought process.

There are those who do not want to and will not ever adapt.

Unfortunately - or perhaps fortunately - depending on your point of view - there are very many in this country who are willing to NOT respect YOUR freedoms. They are quite prepared to fight if push comes to shove to change what you call your freedom.

Freedoms that you so lightly mention are only retained by those who will fight for them. Sooner or later you or your descendants may have to do so. Are you prepared to do this? Our forefathers were. Do not take those freedoms for granted as it sounds you are.

Xenophobic? Hardly.

Realistic? More likely.

I would suspect you do not know as much as you might think you do.

Borg

[Charles Anthony]

Yes I do and it does not matter - it will come as it is and then slowly be expanded.

Is resistance futile?

I would suspect you do not know as much as you might think you do.

Will I be assimilated?

[Higgly]

I'm sorry our backwards culture can't appreciate firing rockets into Israel and chopping necks.

Nor extra-judical execution based on unnamed informers and the hunches of the Mossad.

[Borg]

Yes I do and it does not matter - it will come as it is and then slowly be expanded.

Is resistance futile?

I would suspect you do not know as much as you might think you do.

Will I be assimilated?

Very cute - I was carrying this nick name long before Start Trek ever invented them. In fact I believe I stated that in my very first post. I doubt you could come up with one that I have not already heard - but I am quite ready to listen..

Got something a little more original?

Borg

[Michael Hardner]

This is another in a long line of posts that tries to say it's obvious that Muslims are different, that they will subvert our society and change us into a secular state. The last time I asked for some real evidence of this, I was told 'can you prove it ISN'T true' ?