59% of Canadians believe Afghanistan is a lost cause

Riverwind · October 2, 2006

Who was it that said that " Truth is not a majority vote. "

Cardinal Ratzinger - a.k.a. Pope Benedict

killjoy · October 2, 2006

Actually a lot of people said it, and frankly it doesn't matter if Hitler said it all that matters is whether or not it's true.

It is.

Wasn't too long ago that approx. 70% of Canadian farmers opposed time zone format because the "extra hour" of sunlight was going to burn their crops.

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Remiel · October 2, 2006

Really? When? I had thought it was some insane criminal, like Charles Manson or something...

gerryhatrick · October 2, 2006

mr-trudo:
Seriously, you'd have to be an anarchist or a terrorist to say you don't support the troops. Yet, this simple slogan repetition wrapped up in patroitism scares me as it seems to have a mind numbing effect. The real debates ends, passion takes over reason and a self-censored debate begins. The debate becomes support our troops, our troops always agree and follow the government, you don't agree with our government, you are against our troops and you become the enemy of our beloved troops and our nation. And in comes Anne Coulter with death threats and FOX News proclaiming the government should silence you. This was a tactic adopted by the US Conservatives in "War on Terror" and Canadian Conservatives are now adopting it with Lowell Green replacing Anne Coulter and so on.

What your really saying that Canadians are scared to be labeled anarcharists or terrorists, and would much rather smile and grin and go with the flow. Rather than speak out on what they truely believe.

That is a despicable accusation. Canadians support Canadian troops 100%.

Are you a Canadian, may I ask?

The man said, in his opinion, that only anarchists or terrorists don't support our troops.

And he said much more than that in that paragraph...much that is worthy of an intelligent response instead of a twist of his words to offer such a despicable characterization of Canadians as you have done.

killjoy · October 3, 2006

That is a despicable accusation. Canadians support Canadian troops 100%."

Oh shut up gerry. You spit out a 'despicable accusation' every time you open your mouth.

The man said, in his opinion, that only anarchists or terrorists don't support our troops.
And he said much more than that in that paragraph...much that is worthy of an intelligent response instead of a twist of his words to offer such a despicable characterization of Canadians as you have done.

And Army Guy said a lot more too. Again gerry you seem to think just because you say so that makes it so. It doesn't. Also you're the last person who should be yakking about 'twisting words'.

Army Guy is right and so am I. Despicable or not it's true: Canadian opinion follows what the news papers tell them to think and little more.

His characterization of 'rage-against-the-machine' types and those Canadians afraid of patriotism because it's "too American" is right on the money. Any truthful Canadian will admit it. Are you Canadian? Because it doesn't sound like you have a clue about them.

Rather than thinking for themselves, going with the flow of popular opinion is EXACTLY what they're doing. You can see the ignorance every day: "The USA created the Taliban" , "What does Pakistan have to do with it?", "We're just there to bomb innocent people", or "We're only there for oil" and my favorite, "Afghanistan could never be stable because it's never been before"

None of you seem to really even think about the utter garbage and obvious mistruths you so eagerly absorb.

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gerryhatrick · October 3, 2006

That is a despicable accusation. Canadians support Canadian troops 100%."

Oh shut up gerry. You spit out a 'despicable accusation' every time you open your mouth.

Bullsh#t. I call the accusation that Canadians don't support their troops despicable. You don't like it, to bad. You shut up, killjoy. And quit your BS baiting and trolling all over the forum while your at it.

killjoy · October 3, 2006

If you can't handle responses to your posts then don't make 'em. Must really burn you up that you can't PM me with insults and temper tantrums, huh?

I'm not picking on you gerry, it's just that everything you say is so stupid.

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gerryhatrick · October 3, 2006

If you can't handle responses to your posts then don't make 'em. Must really burn you up that you can't PM me with insults and temper tantrums, huh?
I'm not picking on you gerry, it's just that everything you say is so stupid.

I can handle your posts just fine. If you are confused about another posters meaning ask them. I'm clear on it, and if I'm wrong I'll be the rist to admit it.

And get a grip on your ego kj, I could care less that you've blocked my PM. Apparently you did it so you could yap about it.

Let's not focus on each other, it's a waste of time and nobody cares about your shrill outrage over me or my bemused responses. Comment on the topic.

If you want to comment on the topic do so. Otherwise, don't. The topic is the important thing, not me and your impressions of me.

killjoy · October 3, 2006

The only one who has to get a grip on his ego is you, Mr. "any-intelligent-person-can-see-what-I-see". :lol:

The only one with the 'shrill outrage' is you.

I am commenting on the topic every bit as much as your response to Army Guy was on topic. The arragance of you questioning if someone is Canadain simply because he doesn't see things the way you do is also worth comment and would be hilarious if it weren't so arrogant and childish.

You're not from Toronto are you?

I could care less that you've blocked my PM.

Sure sure. Keep telling yourself that.

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gerryhatrick · October 3, 2006

Most Canadians believe Afghan mission a lost cause: survey

Canadian Press

OTTAWA — A clear majority of Canadians consider the mission in Afghanistan a lost cause, according to an extensive survey that hints at deep public skepticism about the war on terror.

Decima Research polled more than 2,000 Canadians last month just as Prime Minister Stephen Harper stepped up his efforts to promote the mission.

Fifty-nine per cent of respondents agreed Canadian soldiers “are dying for a cause we cannot win,” while just 34 per cent disagreed with that statement.

snip

Almost three-quarters said the Bush administration had made the world more dangerous, 76 per cent said American policy had contributed to a rise in terrorism, and 68 per cent predicted the U.S. will eventually abandon Iraq without success.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...y/National/home

I agree with the pollsters analysis that this shows more of a spillover attitude about the Bush administration and it's war in Iraq and terror than it does with Canadian policy.

Canadians have figured out that Bush and his people have nothing left but empty rhetoric and that Iraq is getting worse. They're hearing SOME of the same rhetoric from Stephen Harper and Gordon O'Conner et al and it's creating the same negative attitude over Afghanistan.

Apologies to other posters for forgetting my ignore list. Here is the topic post once again for your comment. I will refrain from being baited into polluting the forum. thx.

killjoy · October 3, 2006

Um, so your answer is to just spam instead? Hold your hands over your ears and ignore what anyone has to say. What's the point in reposting something which generated responses you couldn't handle the first time?

Don't pretend I'm the only one. You blow a gasket anytime someone dares to disagree with you.

That's not intellectual debating. That's intellectual masterbating.

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gerryhatrick · October 3, 2006

Don't pretend I'm the only one. You blow a gasket anytime someone dares to disagree with you.

More bullsh#t.

I gave you a lashing because you accused me of wanting Canada to lose in Afghanistan.

Armyguy is getting far less of a lashing for claiming that 59% of Canadians don't support their troops.

You say you wish to "debate", but all you ever do is attack me personally. That's fine, I don't care. Just don't cry when you step over the line and get bit.

And sorry for forgetting what you are, you are back on my ignore list for the good of the forum.

Higgly · October 3, 2006

Wow Decima must have really screwed that poll up. I do not know about where you live, but here in and around Ottawa support for the troops and the mission is such that I would have to say that the vast majority(at least 70%) are in favour of both the troops and mission. You can hear them talking in cafes and the lunch room tables etc.. If you look at the ribbons worn to show their support, you start to wonder if this was a manadtory thing. But as you say that was last month, so it was before Parliament was sitting for this session. Since that time the people have been informed about the mission and why we are there and they have heard from the Elected PM of Afghanistan, ho greatful there are for all we are doing and hope we continuue to help them, until they can train and help themselves. Maybe that is why you poll is so out of step with what I see today.

Having lived and worked in Ottawa for a number of years I can only say that people who work for the government tend to know who pays their salaries. To say anything critical of the government is to risk your career.

Army Guy · October 3, 2006

gerryhatrick:

That is a despicable accusation. Canadians support Canadian troops 100%.

What accusation was that ? It's pretty easy to say "i support our troops" in fact it is all the rage and fashionable to do so, in fact one could be called a terrorist or anarchist if one did not say "we support our troops" But with all this suggested support DND should not be wanting anything, the people would be demanding it be so. That is not happening. Soldiers are dieing because the real support they need is not there.

So i ask you gerry what do you do to show your support for the troops ? other than just say you do.

Are you a Canadian, may I ask?

good come back, lets see just this month i've been called a terrorist, a merc for hire by the NDP and despicable by you twice, and now your suggesting i'm not Canadian...Your hurting my feelings gerry.. But sorry to burst your bubble but yes, I'm 100 % Canadian in fact i openily flaunt it, i have a huge Canadian flag on the sleeve of my uniform, one on my ruck sack, i have a Canadian flag tatoo to my upper shoulder with "proud to serve" written underneath, in fact my new skivies i just recieved from home have red maple leafs all over them...I drink Canadian, my favorite cookies are maple, shaped like maple leafs, my favorite hockey team is You guess it Toronto Maple leafs, "only a die hard Canadian would cheer for toronto".

The man said, in his opinion, that only anarchists or terrorists don't support our troops.
And he said much more than that in that paragraph...much that is worthy of an intelligent response instead of a twist of his words to offer such a despicable characterization of Canadians as you have done.

Whooa, slow down spike, re-read both posts carefully this time, i asked him a question, perhaps we should get him to clarify his intent or meaning of his post in question.

Bullsh#t. I call the accusation that Canadians don't support their troops despicable.
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Armyguy is getting far less of a lashing for claiming that 59% of Canadians don't support their troops

Because thats not what i said, what i did suggest was that 100 % of Canadians do not support the troops , thats a pretty big claim with no proof. and those that do not support them are afraid to say so , afraid to be labeled.

Stop jumping to conclusions, got a question about one of my posts ask. i'll explain it to you.

Figleaf · October 3, 2006

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Edited July 22, 2007 by Figleaf

killjoy · October 3, 2006

I drink Canadian, my favorite cookies are maple, shaped like maple leafs, my favorite hockey team is You guess it Toronto Maple leafs, "only a die hard Canadian would cheer for toronto".

Jeziz, the guy bleeds maple-f##kin'-syrup!

<S>

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Figleaf · October 3, 2006

Edited July 22, 2007 by Figleaf

Figleaf · October 3, 2006

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Edited July 22, 2007 by Figleaf

gerryhatrick · October 3, 2006

So i ask you gerry what do you do to show your support for the troops ? other than just say you do.

I defend them against politicians who use them as political fodder.

Wilber · October 3, 2006

So i ask you gerry what do you do to show your support for the troops ? other than just say you do.

I defend them against politicians who use them as political fodder.

Unfortunately using the military as political fodder is part of the make up most people with political agendas, regardless of their political leanings.