Quebecers intolerant of immigrants

[M.Dancer]

The fact that multiculturalism has not eliminated bigotry and racism is not a good argument. It's like saying that police officers are a bad thing for preventing crime because they have not completely eliminated crime. You haven't yet convinced me that it has somehow advanced bigotry and racism.

What has Canada gained from multiculturalism other than to surrender its British heritage and its own unique culture?

That's kinda funny.....I saw some army cadets the other day...kids about 14 I suppose, two chinese and an east indian......they were wearing kilts.

[Leafless]

The fact that multiculturalism has not eliminated bigotry and racism is not a good argument. It's like saying that police officers are a bad thing for preventing crime because they have not completely eliminated crime. You haven't yet convinced me that it has somehow advanced bigotry and racism.

Can you back up your view that Charter Rights are abusing Christian values (if that's what you are saying)?

When I speak of multiculturalism, Iam referring to 'official multiculturalism policy' that includes more importantly Charter Rights like I explained to you previously.

All Charter Rights are dictated and some invented by the government which were never ratified by the tax paying citizens of Canada.

The federal government of Canada and the individual provinces has an obligation and duty to protect human rights in Canada on an individual basis should not, unilaterally dictate rights to the masses without democratic approval.

Canada to-day has developed into the the country it is to-day because of:

(a) The Queen

( The BNA ACT

© Democratic Government

(d) Christianity

It would be foolish of you to even suggest that without the above factors Canada or even the U.S. would even exist.

For the charter to override my democratic and Christian rights with federal government DICTATED rights directly abuses my many democratic and Christian Rights pertaining to my religion that this country was founded on and further developed to where it was prior to the introduction of the Charter in 1982.

Again, it is dictated federal government Charter rights that directly discriminate against my rightful democratic and Christian related rights pertaining to multiculturalism.

There was never a NATIONAL REFERENDUM to establish the acceptance of the Charter but rather the Charter was ratified late in the evening at a hotel by possibly inebriated Canadian premiers who DID NOT represent my, or other Canadians objections and ratified a document that clearly consisted of the biased views and biased opinions of a single political party.

[gc1765]

Leafless,

I read your entire post and I didn't see any reference to multiculturalism or racism, and I didn't see anything that backs up your "view" about multiculturalism flanning the flames of racism & bigotry. However, I am still happy to debate your post regardless if it is not what I asked for. If you can't back up your original statment "multiculturalism is fanning the flames of bigotry & racism" or any of the other "views" I've asked you to back up, that's completely understandable. Just let me know that you are not capable of backing them up so that I can stop wasting my time asking you over and over. We can still debate any other views you have about the charter, so long as you back them up somehow.

When I speak of multiculturalism, Iam referring to 'official multiculturalism policy' that includes more importantly Charter Rights like I explained to you previously.

All Charter Rights are dictated and some invented by the government which were never ratified by the tax paying citizens of Canada.

The federal government of Canada and the individual provinces has an obligation and duty to protect human rights in Canada on an individual basis should not, unilaterally dictate rights to the masses without democratic approval.

Canada is a representative democracy (ignoring our 'non-functional' monarchy). The representatives we elect make decisions, in this case to ratify the Charter. Our democratic system is not perfect, but that's how it works. We dont' have referendums for very many issues, most decisions are made by the representatives that we elect. That being said, I haven't heard too many people who are opposed to the charter, so I'm willing to bet that it would have passed a referendum quite easily.

Canada to-day has developed into the the country it is to-day because of:

(a) The Queen

( The BNA ACT

© Democratic Government

(d) Christianity

It would be foolish of you to even suggest that without the above factors Canada or even the U.S. would even exist.

Not sure I understand your point here. Care to elaborate?

For the charter to override my democratic and Christian rights with federal government DICTATED rights directly abuses my many democratic and Christian Rights pertaining to my religion that this country was founded on and further developed to where it was prior to the introduction of the Charter in 1982.

Again, it is dictated federal government Charter rights that directly discriminate against my rightful democratic and Christian related rights pertaining to multiculturalism.

This is another one of your "views" that needs to be backed up if we are to have any sort of debate. For example, HOW are charter rights discriminating against your Christian related rights (aside from the SSM issue which I already addressed in a previous post)?

There was never a NATIONAL REFERENDUM to establish the acceptance of the Charter but rather the Charter was ratified late in the evening at a hotel by possibly inebriated Canadian premiers who DID NOT represent my, or other Canadians objections and ratified a document that clearly consisted of the biased views and biased opinions of a single political party.

See my comments above.

[bk59]

For the charter to override my democratic and Christian rights with federal government DICTATED rights directly abuses my many democratic and Christian Rights pertaining to my religion that this country was founded on and further developed to where it was prior to the introduction of the Charter in 1982.

Again, it is dictated federal government Charter rights that directly discriminate against my rightful democratic and Christian related rights pertaining to multiculturalism.

This is another one of your "views" that needs to be backed up if we are to have any sort of debate. For example, HOW are charter rights discriminating against your Christian related rights (aside from the SSM issue which I already addressed in a previous post)?

I'm going to echo gc's post by saying, how exactly has your freedom of religion been in any way harmed by the Charter or the federal government?

I'm also going to go one step further and say that even the issue of same-sex marriage has not harmed anyone's right to believe in the religion of their choice. It has been made very clear that no religious organization is required to marry a same-sex couple. In fact, they are not required to marry any couple. The Catholic church has been refusing to marry certain heterosexual couples on a fairly regular basis.

You may not agree with same-sex marriage because of your religious beliefs, but when the government allows civil same-sex marriages, that doesn't affect your choice of religion at all. There are several different religions and/or denominations that believe drinking alcohol is immoral. Yet no one claims that when governments or private companies sell alcohol they are taking away someone's religious freedoms. Not agreeing with the government on religious grounds is not the same as having the government actively punish you for believing in a certain religion.

So let's have the example that shows your point. (And as a quick aside, when someone asks you to back up your point of view, they are not trying to limit your freedom of speech. They are trying to decide whether or not your point is useless rambling or if there is actually some merit to it. If you don't want to provide any support for your argument then that's your right. People will just classify it under the "useless" category rather than the "meaningful debate" category.)

So again, let's get that support for this statement about the Charter and the federal government infringing on your rights. Something along the lines of "the federal government took action X that prevented me from exercising my right Y." Keeping in mind that just disagreeing with a government action does not by itself mean that your rights have been somehow limited.

[Argus]

The Anglican church that ran the daycare where my daughter went was ecumenical...in effect the population was about 60% kids of christian origin, 39% jewish and 1% other (about half of the other were muslim).

The director of the daycare is muslim.....

The "holiday" celebrations included a Santa (and a nativity) a menorah and the trappings of El Eid...

And do you think, when the Muslim mosque holds its holy celebrations, that they throw in trappings of Judaism and Christianity? Not a chance in hell. If you even proposed it you'd be physically attacked.

Mind you, the Anglicans are only tentatively Christian anyway.

[M.Dancer]

The Anglican church that ran the daycare where my daughter went was ecumenical...in effect the population was about 60% kids of christian origin, 39% jewish and 1% other (about half of the other were muslim).

The director of the daycare is muslim.....

The "holiday" celebrations included a Santa (and a nativity) a menorah and the trappings of El Eid...

And do you think, when the Muslim mosque holds its holy celebrations, that they throw in trappings of Judaism and Christianity? Not a chance in hell. If you even proposed it you'd be physically attacked.

Mind you, the Anglicans are only tentatively Christian anyway.

If a 'Muslim Mosque" (redundant or what?) had an ecumenical daycare...sure they would.

But whether a mosque does or doesn't ain't the point so thanks for your irrelevant and ignorant contribution.

[M.Dancer]

In my mind, nationalism and patriotism are not synonymous, opposites even.

Nationalism is akin to bigotry. It requires no more devotion than a sports fanatic has for his team and usually engenders about as much social benefits as going to a football game. To sum total sacrifice demanded by nationalism is the abdication of reason and the adoption of disdain for other nations and cultures.

Patriotism is the love of your country that inspires citizenship and sacrifice. It is what moves men to leave their families and defend their homes. It is what motivates people to higher callings, to participate in the public arena and to challenge the status qua for the betterment of society.

Your interpretation of Canadian nationalism is different than mine.

Nationalism is simply a more intense feeling of patriotism and they are both created like I mentioned previously from (in this North American country) majority Christian nationalism and democratic federal support.

You are incorrect, despite what your think.......

Nationalism

na·tion·al·ism Listen: [ nsh-n-lzm, nshn- ]

n.

Devotion to the interests or culture of one's nation.

The belief that nations will benefit from acting independently rather than collectively, emphasizing national rather than international goals.

Aspirations for national independence in a country under foreign domination.

Patriotism

pa·tri·ot·ism Listen: [ ptr--tzm ]

n.

Love of and devotion to one's country.

Your version of Nationalism is best described here

My Concise Oxford dictionary says the definition of nationalism- 1. a patriotic feeling.

And the definition of a patriot- 1. a person who is devoted to and ready to support his or her country.

What you are quoting pertaining to racism is more directed to the antics used in Nazi Germany.

In other words you are also insinuating the U.S. is racist I gather.

I thought I was refering to you

[Leafless]

Leafless,

I read your entire post and I didn't see any reference to multiculturalism or racism, and I didn't see anything that backs up your "view" about multiculturalism flanning the flames of racism & bigotry.

I will not respond to your post on this topic again.

You are a trolling, flaming arrogant smart ass that has the same type of characteristics as the province you come from.

If Quebec's FRENCH language is so much in demand, why is it your premier CANNOT generate enough FRENCH jobs in your province so as other Canadian provinces wouldn't have to support Quebec. Why force your Quebec ideologies on other provincial provinces that don't harbour Quebec's dictatorial offensive and discriminatory racist policies or Quebec's Nazi style ideologies?

Doesn't Quebec and Quebecer's have any pride?

Many Canadians are sick and tired of being run over by a FRENCH MINORITY and aspects of immigration that are out of control.

[Leafless]

In my mind, nationalism and patriotism are not synonymous, opposites even.

Nationalism is akin to bigotry. It requires no more devotion than a sports fanatic has for his team and usually engenders about as much social benefits as going to a football game. To sum total sacrifice demanded by nationalism is the abdication of reason and the adoption of disdain for other nations and cultures.

Patriotism is the love of your country that inspires citizenship and sacrifice. It is what moves men to leave their families and defend their homes. It is what motivates people to higher callings, to participate in the public arena and to challenge the status qua for the betterment of society.

Your interpretation of Canadian nationalism is different than mine.

Nationalism is simply a more intense feeling of patriotism and they are both created like I mentioned previously from (in this North American country) majority Christian nationalism and democratic federal support.

You are incorrect, despite what your think.......

Nationalism

na·tion·al·ism Listen: [ nsh-n-lzm, nshn- ]

n.

Devotion to the interests or culture of one's nation.

The belief that nations will benefit from acting independently rather than collectively, emphasizing national rather than international goals.

Aspirations for national independence in a country under foreign domination.

Patriotism

pa·tri·ot·ism Listen: [ ptr--tzm ]

n.

Love of and devotion to one's country.

Your version of Nationalism is best described here

My Concise Oxford dictionary says the definition of nationalism- 1. a patriotic feeling.

And the definition of a patriot- 1. a person who is devoted to and ready to support his or her country.

What you are quoting pertaining to racism is more directed to the antics used in Nazi Germany.

In other words you are also insinuating the U.S. is racist I gather.

I thought I was refering to you

Your directing your twisted analogies in the wrong direction and to the wrong person.

I'am not the one supporting racist policies, I OPPOSE them.

[M.Dancer]

of course....how silly of me to think that restricting immigration to white christians might be racist......

[Leafless]

of course....how silly of me to think that restricting immigration to white christians might be racist......

Please show me where I said that?

[Argus]

If a 'Muslim Mosque" (redundant or what?) had an ecumenical daycare...sure they would.

They would never have an ecuminical daycare. The whole idea is against the teachings of the Koran.

But whether a mosque does or doesn't ain't the point so thanks for your irrelevant and ignorant contribution.

Of course it's the point. The point being that Muslims don't share that same silly, squishy, idiotic liberal feeling of brotherhood. Not with non Muslims.

[M.Dancer]

If a 'Muslim Mosque" (redundant or what?) had an ecumenical daycare...sure they would.

They would never have an ecuminical daycare. The whole idea is against the teachings of the Koran.

But whether a mosque does or doesn't ain't the point so thanks for your irrelevant and ignorant contribution.

Of course it's the point. The point being that Muslims don't share that same silly, squishy, idiotic liberal feeling of brotherhood. Not with non Muslims.

Try reading again....my post was a response to someone lamenting over the lack of religious symbols in public and has nothing to do with monomaniacal phobias

[JAh-man]

AS someone who has both family and friends in Quebec it makes me sad to see people so aggressive at gaining cultural respect while they trample on other peoples.. I've have encountred racism and prejudism based on the fact I live in Toronto and speak english.. It is practicaly a sport to bash english speaking Canadians there, and Americans are treated worse..

[Leafless]

AS someone who has both family and friends in Quebec it makes me sad to see people so aggressive at gaining cultural respect while they trample on other peoples.. I've have encountred racism and prejudism based on the fact I live in Toronto and speak english.. It is practicaly a sport to bash english speaking Canadians there, and Americans are treated worse..

I guess it depends where you live in Toronto.

You have to blame Quebec primarily and the Liberals secondly, for promoting and placing importance on culture over Canadian nationalism.

Things no doubt will only get worse thanks to our gutless leaders.