Volpe Membership Campaign Memberships

[scribblet]

I didn't see any mention of Jim Karygiannis who was his campaign manager (he resigned I think) and it is not clear if Volpe actually knew or was involved in this. However, if Jimmy K. was involved then it is liely only the tip of the iceberg, the two make a great pair.

http://tinyurl.com/s8y2g Toronto Star

Dozens improperly signed up

Many surprised Montrealers get cards, probe finds Volpe campaign named as paying for 9 memberships

Sep. 23, 2006. 07:20 AM

LINDA DIEBEL AND JOANNA SMITH

STAFF REPORTERS

Dozens of people in Montreal, including the dead, have been improperly signed up as federal Liberal party members.

A Toronto Star investigation has found unsuspecting Quebecers — some surprised to find out they were instant Liberals — were sent membership cards and letters urging them to vote next weekend at all-important meetings to elect delegates to the Liberal convention to choose a new leader.

[jdobbin]

I didn't see any mention of Jim Karygiannis who was his campaign manager (he resigned I think) and it is not clear if Volpe actually knew or was involved in this. However, if Jimmy K. was involved then it is liely only the tip of the iceberg, the two make a great pair.

It is probably time for Volpe to step down.

[watching&waiting]

I know the liberals are all for taxing from cradle to grave, but this just shows they expect your support even beyond the grave. This is no surprise here, this is exactly what we have come to expect from the liberal party in the past. So why would we think it will change now. Same old party and same old nasty tricks and corruption. They have not learned from their past, so why would any thinking person ever think they will change?

[jdobbin]

I know the liberals are all for taxing from cradle to grave, but this just shows they expect your support even beyond the grave. This is no surprise here, this is exactly what we have come to expect from the liberal party in the past. So why would we think it will change now. Same old party and same old nasty tricks and corruption. They have not learned from their past, so why would any thinking person ever think they will change?

And now the Conservatives have their own record to defend. We'll see if they actually violated the elections act with their spending.

[watching&waiting]

So has it really come to this, where you have to see who os the lesser cheat? I will have no problem saying things about CPC if they break the rules as well. But I do have to say that spending a little more on a campagne is a lot different then lieing and cheating before and during the campagne. But I guess that is in the person who views it.

[jdobbin]

So has it really come to this, where you have to see who os the lesser cheat? I will have no problem saying things about CPC if they break the rules as well. But I do have to say that spending a little more on a campagne is a lot different then lieing and cheating before and during the campagne. But I guess that is in the person who views it.

I have problems with any breaking of the rules and so should you. I don't think the overspending was just a little bit of liquor. But that remains to be seen.

[August1991]

And now the Conservatives have their own record to defend. We'll see if they actually violated the elections act with their spending.

Dobbin, that's the Liberals' age-old tactic: deflect the argument by making an accusation.

How does this change what Volpe is doing?

Volpe's not going to win but he's angling for a cabinet position and he reflects the way the Liberal Party operates. I found this quote (from link above) of Dion sad:

Liberal leadership hopeful Stéphane Dion, the sole Quebec candidate in the race, said yesterday he has heard questions swirling around about party memberships.

"I'm aware of the concerns. I don't have the answers. It will be for the camp of Mr. Volpe to answer. I have confidence in Joe's honesty," said the Montreal MP, following a meeting with the Star's editorial board.

It's certainly not Dion who is going to clean up the Liberal Party. Same old, same old.

[Shakeyhands]

I didn't see any mention of Jim Karygiannis who was his campaign manager (he resigned I think) and it is not clear if Volpe actually knew or was involved in this. However, if Jimmy K. was involved then it is liely only the tip of the iceberg, the two make a great pair.

It is probably time for Volpe to step down.

As a Liberal Party member, I thinks its high time for Volpe to not only step down, but to apologize to all Canadians and then its time for us to cancel his party membership.

We do not need people like that in this party.

[jdobbin]

Dobbin, that's the Liberals' age-old tactic: deflect the argument by making an accusation.

How does this change what Volpe is doing?

Volpe's not going to win but he's angling for a cabinet position and he reflects the way the Liberal Party operates. I found this quote (from link above) of Dion sad:

Liberal leadership hopeful Stéphane Dion, the sole Quebec candidate in the race, said yesterday he has heard questions swirling around about party memberships.

"I'm aware of the concerns. I don't have the answers. It will be for the camp of Mr. Volpe to answer. I have confidence in Joe's honesty," said the Montreal MP, following a meeting with the Star's editorial board.

It's certainly not Dion who is going to clean up the Liberal Party. Same old, same old.

I wasn't making an accusation. I just stated they have their own record to defend now and we'll see if same old, same old applies to the party in power. I have no idea if fundraising laws were broken.

I personally thought Volpe was wrong trying to defend children being used to fund his campaign and I think he has hurt his party for continuing his campaign.

I disagree with you about Dion ncessarily knowing about criminal behaviour happening in Quebec. It's like saying everyone in the Conservative party must have known that Muloney received money from a secret fund used by Airbus to pay commissions.

As far as supporting him for the leadership, I don't know that I have seen a strong enough performance from him to warrant being leader.

[gerryhatrick]

I know the liberals are all for taxing from cradle to grave, but this just shows they expect your support even beyond the grave.

Ah, so that's your response to this? It's something you can broad-brush all Liberals with?

That's an interesting take on it, and makes me wonder if any Conservatives have been invovled in this little mess up. Smells like sabotage.

[gc1765]

You'd think that after loosing the last election, partially due to corruption, that the liberals would have smartened up. Apparently Volpe hasn't smartened up and he is giving liberals a bad name. He really should withdraw from the leadership race.

And now the Conservatives have their own record to defend. We'll see if they actually violated the elections act with their spending.

Dobbin, that's the Liberals' age-old tactic: deflect the argument by making an accusation.

How does this change what Volpe is doing?

To be fair, it's more of a conservative tactic. When anyone tries to bring the ethics of the conservative party into question, it is almost a reflex action for conservatives to bring up the sponsorship scandal. Those conservatives are willing to defend the conservative party for questionable ethics, so long as it's not as bad as the sponsorship scandal.

[geoffrey]

I still haven't figured out why the Liberals haven't kicked Volpe out, I don't know if there has been a more morally corrupt individual in the House for some time. I just don't think he gets it.

Maybe with enough vote splitting, he'll win the leadership .

[Ricki Bobbi]

I disagree with you about Dion ncessarily knowing about criminal behaviour happening in Quebec. It's like saying everyone in the Conservative party must have known that Muloney received money from a secret fund used by Airbus to pay commissions.

That's a false analogy for two reasons.

1. Dion was the Quebec lietuenant in the government at the time. So he should have known about a major effort *aimed* at keeping Quebec in Canada.

2. While the LPC was found to have improperly used over $1 million of taxpayer money in Adscam the government dropped its lawsuit against Mulroney and settled his counter-suit out of court.

[gc1765]

That's a false analogy for two reasons.

1. Dion was the Quebec lietuenant in the government at the time. So he should have known about a major effort *aimed* at keeping Quebec in Canada.

Of course Dion would have known about the sponsorship program, it doesn't necessarily mean he knew that the money for that program was being abused.

2. While the LPC was found to have improperly used over $1 million of taxpayer money in Adscam the government dropped its lawsuit against Mulroney and settled his counter-suit out of court.

What are you trying to say here? That because the government dropped it's lawsuit that Mulroney is innocent? Unfortunately, the evidence didn't come out until recently Link

[August1991]

Looks like Volpe will be out by Monday. The question now is which candidate will the (living) party members he signed up vote for?

Secoué samedi par une nouvelle controverse dans sa campagne déjà marquée par plusieurs scandales, Joe Volpe va abandonner la course à la direction du Parti libéral du Canada (PLC), selon des spéculations qui vont bon train.

M. Volpe compte donner une conférence de presse à Ottawa, lundi matin, a appris la Presse Canadienne.

Link

[Ricki Bobbi]

What are you trying to say here? That because the government dropped it's lawsuit that Mulroney is innocent? Unfortunately, the evidence didn't come out until recently Link

You are calling that CBC hack job evidence?

The only source they had is Karl Heinz Schreiber.

Shcreiber alone wasn't credible enough for the Government to proceed with their lawsuit. *But* he's credible enough for you, and the CBC, to take as new evidence of Mulroney's guilt? No other media outlet thought ihe was credible enough to bring the story back.

Adscam was proven by a judicial inquiry by a judge picked by the Liberal government of the day.

Hmmm, seems like your standard of proof is a lot higher for Liberal malfeasance.

[jdobbin]

What are you trying to say here? That because the government dropped it's lawsuit that Mulroney is innocent? Unfortunately, the evidence didn't come out until recently Link

The Tories were sufiiciently concerned about it that some wanted to distance themselves from Mulroney according to the Globe and Mail. This of course was after the election.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl-Heinz_Schreiber

[August1991]

I disagree with you about Dion ncessarily knowing about criminal behaviour happening in Quebec. It's like saying everyone in the Conservative party must have known that Muloney received money from a secret fund used by Airbus to pay commissions.

There you go again, Dobbin. You make an accusation to deflect attention from a scandal at hand.

Brian Mulroney has been out of office for over 13 years. The Progressive Conservative Party is no more. For the current Conservative government to get elected, there were numerous reforms, alliances and changes. The Tories cleaned house. Stephen Harper leads a different party now than its predecessor before.

Preston Manning, for one, can take no small credit.

Now, compare that with today's Liberal Party. We've got Joe Volpe getting 10 year old kids to loan money to his campaign, and he signs up dead people. And what is the reaction of the other leaders? "Joe's an honest guy."

But then again, Dion, one of the leading candidates, was a senior minister when the government was funnelling cash to ad companies who then funnelled it back to the Liberal Party.

Let the Liberal Party stay out of power, collapse and then reform itself and maybe in the year 2020, they can present themselves as an honest alternative. The Liberal Party needs a good long think in the woods. 13 years out of power would do them some good.

----

BTW, I've started another thread about Mulroney.

[gc1765]

What are you trying to say here? That because the government dropped it's lawsuit that Mulroney is innocent? Unfortunately, the evidence didn't come out until recently Link

You are calling that CBC hack job evidence?

The only source they had is Karl Heinz Schreiber.

Shcreiber alone wasn't credible enough for the Government to proceed with their lawsuit. *But* he's credible enough for you, and the CBC, to take as new evidence of Mulroney's guilt? No other media outlet thought ihe was credible enough to bring the story back.

Why don't you think Schreiber is credible? Why would he admit to bribing Mulroney if he didn't? Are you saying that Mulroney didn't recieve $300,000 from him? Mulroney has since admitted that he accepted the money, after having previously denied it. Or do you really believe the money was paid for consultation about sphaghetti Even if that was the case (which I doubt), wouldn't you say it's a bit of a conflict of interest? And why did Mulroney deny recieving the money?

Adscam was proven by a judicial inquiry by a judge picked by the Liberal government of the day.

Hmmm, seems like your standard of proof is a lot higher for Liberal malfeasance.

Really? The current liberal party was guilty of adscam according to the inquiry? News to me, I thought they were completely exonerated. The previous government was guilty (ie chretien and gagliano), of course, but I've never said they weren't guilty. It's pretty funny how you think the current liberal party is corrupt, based on absolutely no evidence other than speculation, yet when someone shows you evidence of corruption by Mulroney, the source isn't good enough

[jdobbin]

There you go again, Dobbin. You make an accusation to deflect attention from a scandal at hand.

Brian Mulroney has been out of office for over 13 years. The Progressive Conservative Party is no more. For the current Conservative government to get elected, there were numerous reforms, alliances and changes. The Tories cleaned house. Stephen Harper leads a different party now than its predecessor before.

Preston Manning, for one, can take no small credit.

Now, compare that with today's Liberal Party. We've got Joe Volpe getting 10 year old kids to loan money to his campaign, and he signs up dead people. And what is the reaction of the other leaders? "Joe's an honest guy."

But then again, Dion, one of the leading candidates, was a senior minister when the government was funnelling cash to ad companies who then funnelled it back to the Liberal Party.

Let the Liberal Party stay out of power, collapse and then reform itself and maybe in the year 2020, they can present themselves as an honest alternative. The Liberal Party needs a good long think in the woods. 13 years out of power would do them some good.

What scandal? I've never seen anything to indicate that Dion was personally involved in illegal spending in Quebec. You are trying to accuse him of criminal behaviour. Please cite your sources otherwise it sounds like a smear campaign.

And Harper might be a new Conservative but he had help from old Mulroney in the last election. Do you think Harper knew that Mulroney had previously denied receieving money but in fact had received money from a person accused of bribery? I don't think Harper knew and that is probably why Conservatives have been distancing themselves from the Mulroney since late winter.

13 years out of office and yet the bribery issue has still not been resolved. Could it be that Mulroney lied the back in 1999? The Conservatives today now have that file. What will they do?

Moreover, if they believe Dion is guilty of something, start an investigation.

[Ricki Bobbi]

13 years out of office and yet the bribery issue has still not been resolved. Could it be that Mulroney lied the back in 1999? The Conservatives today now have that file. What will they do?

Moreover, if they believe Dion is guilty of something, start an investigation.

It hasn't been resolved because the CBC ran a story about it?

Hmmm, the Liberal Government settled the case out of court. The term settlement implies that the issue has been settled. But maybe that's just me...

[jdobbin]

The Globe and Mail initially broke the story not the CBC as some people have claimed.

The CBC were the ones that had the interview.

The National Post, among other newspapers were the ones that commented that Mulroney lied in 1999 and partly, on the basis of that lie, was cleared of wrong doing.

This year, the account that Mulroney was identified as being paid from was linked to illegal commissions paid on Airbus.

[Ricki Bobbi]

Hmmm, the Liberal Government settled the case out of court. The term settlement implies that the issue has been settled. But maybe that's just me...

Haven't seen anybody reply to the above so I thought I would ask again.

[Ricki Bobbi]

The Globe and Mail initially broke the story not the CBC as some people have claimed.

The CBC were the ones that had the interview.

The National Post, among other newspapers were the ones that commented that Mulroney lied in 1999 and partly, on the basis of that lie, was cleared of wrong doing.

This year, the account that Mulroney was identified as being paid from was linked to illegal commissions paid on Airbus.

Ok. I'll change my line. It hasn't been resolved because the CBC (a few outlets) ran a story stories about it (eight months ago)?

[gc1765]

Hmmm, the Liberal Government settled the case out of court. The term settlement implies that the issue has been settled. But maybe that's just me...

Haven't seen anybody reply to the above so I thought I would ask again.

Well since you asked...would you say that the gomery inquiry "settled" the issue of adscam? You know, the same inquiry that exonerated Paul Martin & his government.

I'll be curious to see if chretien wins his lawsuit. If he does, I hope you'll come to this forum and make a post about how the liberals are innocent and the issue is settled. I'm not sure how that lawsuit is going, but I'll keep you posted if I hear any news.