Ottawa to woo Quebec voters

[Leafless]

Is this another $328M simply to buy Quebec votes?

What exactly do Canadian taxpayers get back in return?

Secret behind the door dealings don't impress me at all especially ones that are counter productive to Canadian society as a whole.

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national...8b2&k=80724

[M.Dancer]

Is this another $328M simply to buy Quebec votes?

What exactly do Canadian taxpayers get back in return?

The liberals in opposition.....

[August1991]

From link above:

The Liberals handed over $538 million to Ontario in 2005, and Quebec calculated that it deserved $328 million.

Maybe the thread title should be changed to:

"Ottawa to woo provincial governments with taxpayer's money"

[Leafless]

Is this another $328M simply to buy Quebec votes?

What exactly do Canadian taxpayers get back in return?

The liberals in opposition.....

Buying votes in Quebec is a risky proposition for any political party.

Ask the Liberals, they know all about it and is the prime reason they are presently the opposition.

[M.Dancer]

Is this another $328M simply to buy Quebec votes?

What exactly do Canadian taxpayers get back in return?

The liberals in opposition.....

Buying votes in Quebec is a risky proposition for any political party.

Ask the Liberals, they know all about it and is the prime reason they are presently the opposition.

No the prime reason was criminal activity.....had the money not been stolen the Liberals would still be power

[Leafless]

Is this another $328M simply to buy Quebec votes?

What exactly do Canadian taxpayers get back in return?

The liberals in opposition.....

Buying votes in Quebec is a risky proposition for any political party.

Ask the Liberals, they know all about it and is the prime reason they are presently the opposition.

No the prime reason was criminal activity.....had the money not been stolen the Liberals would still be power

That's only your opinion and is not a proven fact concerning the reason for the demise of the Liberals.

IMO the reason is the blatant Liberal continuous cover up and allegations concerning the PM himself (Mr. Chretien) being involved. The Liberal government themselves were seen as untrustworthy.

Sponsorship tax payer money was being dispensed in a totally carefree manner encouraging the type of theft your talking about.

The sponsorship issue was an invitation to theft implementing excessive Liberal catering to Quebecers in an effort to buy Quebec votes at any cost.

[Leafless]

From link above:

The Liberals handed over $538 million to Ontario in 2005, and Quebec calculated that it deserved $328 million.

Maybe the thread title should be changed to:

"Ottawa to woo provincial governments with taxpayer's money"

Maybe you could provide a link relating and explaining the reasons why Ontario received $538M.

What do Quebec voters have to do with an initiative that concerns environmental concerns when in Quebec is a provincial initiative independent of voters input?

But the Conservatives did say this relating to Quebec voters:

"According to various government sources, the Harper government has gone to significant lengths to ensure the national plan will be attractive to Quebec voters."

And sources said this:

But sources close to the negotiations say the $328 million figure is "a paltry sum," and believe the Tories will give Quebec significantly more in the hopes of improving its electoral fortunes in the province come election time.

And the Quebec provincial government said this:

"The document also indicates that Quebec will push Ottawa to invest in commuter rail links and other forms of public transportation, including a high-speed rail link for the Quebec-Windsor corridor."

High -speed rail link!

You don't suppose that BOMBARDIER might become somehow involved?

Hope Mr. Harper isn't heading down the Liberal roadway to political destruction.

[M.Dancer]

"The document also indicates that Quebec will push Ottawa to invest in commuter rail links and other forms of public transportation, including a high-speed rail link for the Quebec-Windsor corridor."

Lets hope so.

[Leafless]

"The document also indicates that Quebec will push Ottawa to invest in commuter rail links and other forms of public transportation, including a high-speed rail link for the Quebec-Windsor corridor."

Lets hope so.

Why?

Is this a democratic initiative?

[M.Dancer]

"The document also indicates that Quebec will push Ottawa to invest in commuter rail links and other forms of public transportation, including a high-speed rail link for the Quebec-Windsor corridor."

Lets hope so.

Why?

Is this a democratic initiative?

No. It's a transportation inititive. Trains are large vehicles that run on steel wheels on steel tracks to reduce friction. They can be powered by either fossil fuels or electricity. In europe, they have numerous profitable train routes that operate at speeds in excess of 250KPH.

That means Toronto to Montreal in 2 hours, downtown to downtown. For the life of me I don't understand why North Americans are so backwards when it comes to modern transportation technology.

[Leafless]

"The document also indicates that Quebec will push Ottawa to invest in commuter rail links and other forms of public transportation, including a high-speed rail link for the Quebec-Windsor corridor."

Lets hope so.

Why?

Is this a democratic initiative?

No. It's a transportation inititive. Trains are large vehicles that run on steel wheels on steel tracks to reduce friction. They can be powered by either fossil fuels or electricity. In europe, they have numerous profitable train routes that operate at speeds in excess of 250KPH.

That means Toronto to Montreal in 2 hours, downtown to downtown. For the life of me I don't understand why North Americans are so backwards when it comes to modern transportation technology.

A transportation initiative makes sense providing your paying for it.

Canadian tax payers already have a large say in those vehicles that run on steel wheels on steel tracks called SUBSIDIZED TRAINS.

Via already has 480 trains in eight Canadian provinces.

Travel time between Toronto and Montreal is :

Montréal - Ottawa - Toronto:

VIA Rail's fast modern inter-city trains link Toronto, Ottawa and Montréal. Montréal to Toronto takes about 4 hours 40 minutes city centre to city centre, and the fare starts at around Can$85 if you book in advance. Toronto to Ottawa takes about 4 hours 15 minutes. You can check times, fares & book online at www.viarail.ca.

If the demand is there there should be no problem with Quebec financing a project like this with private funds.

[August1991]

But the Conservatives did say this relating to Quebec voters:

"According to various government sources, the Harper government has gone to significant lengths to ensure the national plan will be attractive to Quebec voters."

No, the Conservatives did not say that. Some journalist chose to say that, or some CanWest editor chose to say that.

Leafless, do you believe everything you read? Or do you only read what confirms your prior beliefs?

"The document also indicates that Quebec will push Ottawa to invest in commuter rail links and other forms of public transportation, including a high-speed rail link for the Quebec-Windsor corridor."

High -speed rail link!

You don't suppose that BOMBARDIER might become somehow involved?

By my reckoning, about 80% of the Quebec-Windsor corridor is in Ontario. Bombardier has production facilities in Ontario too.

Anyway, the Quebec and Ontario governments have been "pushing this" for, like, 40 years or so. It's hardly new news.

----

Leafless, how did we get here from there, and would you please learn to reply without copying all previous posts and re-posts? It's unseemly.

[Leafless]

August1991

Could your reckoning be related to this link:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/via/

It refers to handling 80% of the traffic.

Here is the Windsor-Quebec City corridor:

http://www.atlantica.org/atlanticastory.asp?cmPageID=94

And it's more like 60/40.

Concerning your disbelief in major Canadian news publications, yes I do belief in most part stories covering political events.

Why, do you believe politicians?

Anyways August the topic does not concern the Windsor/Quebec corridor but the demands placed on the Harper government by power hungry glutton Quebec.

If you read the article it reads in part:

"Officials in Quebec's environment ministry took advantage of the thaw in relations, sending Ottawa a long list of programs it wanted financed. "

How irresponsible can a province be by pressuring a new government concerning these demands.

Quebec's pressure tactics led to a dysfunctional Liberal government and now it appears the Conservatives will be led down the same path.

If you do not have anything substantial to add concerning this situation fine but if you do, please address the concerns related to the topic.

BTW- I decide what previous post I use to support my argument and not you.

If you feel you are in the position to chastise please verify that with the moderator so all members will be aware of your exclusive powers concerning decissions that are none of your buisness.

[geoffrey]

We could use a high-speed rail link between Calgary/Edmonton. I mean, we are the ones making the money for you guys to build your Ontario/Quebec line, best give the cash cow the best feed.

[M.Dancer]

We could use a high-speed rail link between Calgary/Edmonton. I mean, we are the ones making the money for you guys to build your Ontario/Quebec line, best give the cash cow the best feed.

I believe there is a provincial study going on right now about the feasibility.

My guess is, it won't float because the population density of Calgary and Edmonton are too low so that the expected ridership will also be too low to support the massive infrastructure. Of course they will not be projecting 50 years down the line which by then, clgary and edmonton should have become big cities.

[geoffrey]

We could use a high-speed rail link between Calgary/Edmonton. I mean, we are the ones making the money for you guys to build your Ontario/Quebec line, best give the cash cow the best feed.

I believe there is a provincial study going on right now about the feasibility.

My guess is, it won't float because the population density of Calgary and Edmonton are too low so that the expected ridership will also be too low to support the massive infrastructure. Of course they will not be projecting 50 years down the line which by then, clgary and edmonton should have become big cities.

Chances are we'd do it on the premiss of continuing our leadership on truly green inititives. It'd be a good investment for the future as well, build it and they will come. The cost isn't that huge considering our recent surpluses, and I'm sure a private-public partnership would make it even more affordable.

[M.Dancer]

If it were to be green it would be electric.....personally as an Ontarian from Quebec, I would be all for Alberta taking the lead in High Speed Rail. The feds have completely fusckered the rail experiance along the corridor. Some giant brain marketing whiz thought what was needed was a remodeling .....so out with what made trains different and in with the ersatz airpline concepts......

....so on top of the already sub air canada level of customer service offered by via, they gave us molded plastic seats and microwave snacks at fares competitive with airlines....forgetting that the hop from TO to MTL is only 2 hours.....regardless of the rude stewards.......And being stuck in your VIA seat for a minimm of 4 hours trying to get the board attendants attention to get a bloody whiskey........

What made trains desirable was the ability to get up and walk (important if you have kids)...a walk to the bar car...a walk to the dining car......

[geoffrey]

The walk to the bar car is definitely an essiential selling feature. I hear drink prices are more reasonable on trains.

As a fear of flying type, the beverages served is how I generally judge the service and quality of the airline... I'd take the train if I wasn't around a 7 day trip to Toronto or Montreal.

[M.Dancer]

The walk to the bar car is definitely an essiential selling feature. I hear drink prices are more reasonable on trains.

As a fear of flying type, the beverages served is how I generally judge the service and quality of the airline... I'd take the train if I wasn't around a 7 day trip to Toronto or Montreal.

A long time ago in the BC era (before children, about 8 years ago) my wife and I thought of a wondeful way to see Canada> we would try and get the Canadian equivilant of the Eurail Pass and travel from Toronto to Vancouver, staying one or two nights ihere and there along the way. We had previously taken the train from Toronto to Tampa (transfer in NYC) first class with a room that had a shower...we of course wanted a room on our trip...because, lets face it, trains are damn sexy. Our plan was to go by trin and return by air.

Anyway, the cost was absurd.

Just checking and today, without stopovers one way the fare for 2 is $2539.75.......$879 in a chair......ONE WAY!!!

It has been my belief for years that the long term goal of the VIA management is to mismange the system until it dies.

[Charles Anthony]

It has been my belief for years that the long term goal of the VIA management is to mismange the system until it dies.

No -- you mean the passenger service dies.

The trains do two things: passengers and cargo. The passenger service is only there for symbolic reasons: to please people like you and to maintain our "Canadian" identity.

It makes sense that it is more expensive than other means of transportation. It is a horribly inefficient way to travel unless of course you want to take your time and enjoy the scenery.

[M.Dancer]

It has been my belief for years that the long term goal of the VIA management is to mismange the system until it dies.

No -- you mean the passenger service dies.

The trains do two things: passengers and cargo. The passenger service is only there for symbolic reasons: to please people like you and to maintain our "Canadian" identity.

It makes sense that it is more expensive than other means of transportation. It is a horribly inefficient way to travel unless of course you want to take your time and enjoy the scenery.

VIA is a soley a passenger service. It does not make sense that it is more expensive because by far it is the more efficiant mode of transport. It is fuel efficient and green. One look at the money making systens they have in Europe will convince you.

[M.Dancer]

It makes sense that it is more expensive than other means of transportation. It is a horribly inefficient way to travel unless of course you want to take your time and enjoy the scenery.

Unless of course you are riding a modern train like French TGV and want to go from downtown to downtown faster than the plane....

[jbg]

No the prime reason was criminal activity.....had the money not been stolen the Liberals would still be power

How could it be other than stolen?