Harper Skip AIDs Conference

Melanie_ · August 18, 2006

Would availability of condoms really ensure that they're going to be used?
~snip~

We have to accept the fact....some people just don't care!

Pretty cynical. One thing is for sure, they can't use condoms that aren't available. You are making some broad generalizations here, attributing attitudes of relatively affluent North American youth to people living in poverty in Africa.

Teen age pregnancy is not about not caring, its about a sense of personal invulnerability - it can happen to other people, but it can't happen to me. To some degree, I'm sure that is one of the contributing factors to HIV spread as well.

betsy · August 18, 2006

Would availability of condoms really ensure that they're going to be used?

~snip~

We have to accept the fact....some people just don't care!

Pretty cynical. One thing is for sure, they can't use condoms that aren't available. You are making some broad generalizations here, attributing attitudes of relatively affluent North American youth to people living in poverty in Africa.

IF CONDOMS were the answer, then why don't we just supply them....for free? I'm serious.

betsy · August 18, 2006

Teen age pregnancy is not about not caring, its about a sense of personal invulnerability - it can happen to other people, but it can't happen to me.

So okay, it may be about this "personal invulnerability"...but you gotta admit, we've hit the brick wall with this kind of mental attitude. Not only with teens...but with adult as well.

Sure, it can happen to other people...but it can't happen to me!

So it's practically the same as an "I don't care" attitude...especially when when it comes to adults!

jdobbin · August 18, 2006

IF CONDOMS were the answer, then why don't we just supply them....for free? I'm serious.

Condoms are sold in some countries by governments such a Mali for the equivalent of many days wages. In Canada, condom availability is very controversial and therefore not always available for people that need it.

There will always be people that don't use condoms even when they are available but if Harper made it a policy to have free condoms available, it would be the boldest government policy anywhere on the planet.

Melanie_ · August 18, 2006

So okay, it may be about this "personal invulnerability"...but you gotta admit, we've hit the brick wall with this kind of mental attitude. Not only with teens...but with adult as well.
Sure, it can happen to other people...but it can't happen to me!

So it's practically the same as an "I don't care" attitude...especially when when it comes to adults!

We all operate with some degree of personal invulnerability every day; otherwise, we'd never leave our houses for fear of what might happen to us. I don't see it as an "I don't care" attitude, but rather as a self protection mechanism, however irrational it might be. Education campaigns can be used to break people's bubbles, but there will always be some who engage in risky behaviour anyway. Those people provide an educational service, too - "if you can't be a good example, you'll have to serve as a horrible warning."

Army Guy · August 18, 2006

AIDS death statistics in Canada:
93 deaths in Canada 2003 (HIV and AIDS in Canada: Surveillance Report, Health Canada, 2003)

13,010 deaths in Canada 1980-2003 (HIV and AIDS in Canada: Surveillance Report, Health Canada, 2003)

12,080 male deaths in Canada 1980-2003 (HIV and AIDS in Canada: Surveillance Report, Health Canada, 2003)

926 female deaths in Canada 1980-2003 (HIV and AIDS in Canada: Surveillance Report, Health Canada, 2003)

13,010 deaths in Canada 1980-2003 (HIV and AIDS in Canada: Surveillance Report, Health Canada, 2003)

92.9% of deaths occur in men in Canada 1980-2003 (HIV and AIDS in Canada: Surveillance Report, Health Canada, 2003)

7.1% of deaths occur in women in Canada 1980-2003 (HIV and AIDS in Canada: Surveillance Report, Health Canada, 2003)

83 deaths annually in Canada 2003 (HIV and AIDS in Canada: Surveillance Report, Health Canada, 2003)

Can someone please explain something to me....Why are Canadians so obcessed with AIDS...Why is it become our main focus of all the other illiness out there why have we have chosen AIDS. I mean to have Bill Gates donate 500 mil is quite a feat, and will go a long way to finding a cure" i Hope". But why aids.

The last stats i found were from 2003, and the death toll in Canada has been historiclly declining thru break thru in medicine and treatments...It was only 83 people..

From what i have read on Aids so far does not make me an expert, but it seems that this diease is all about choices and life styles "for most" that is. Choices to indulge in a certain life style, whether to have protected or unprotected sex, whom we have sex with, All chioces that these people make "before" they get infected..

But what about the other dieases out there that are far better killers, that effect more of our population than say aids "what about them" Lets just take CANCER as an example. last years numbers indictated that 70,400 Canadians died from all forms of cancer of which 260 were children, that made no choices at all..

"piont to note" more in one year than all the years of Aids put together... another piont of that 70,400 who died only 20,500 were from lung cancer and tobbaco use...the remaining 50,000 or so were from dieases which have no personal choices to be made, or effect people at random..

Do we as Canadians have our priorities all wrong, are we backing the wrong horse here..My guess if it interfered with our sex lifes, Cancer would also be sharing the lime light. Perhaps our government should be funding medical research that effect us the most. instead of the few.

Perhaps Cancer reseach program should be hiring the people in charge of the AIDs PR programs...

My Webpage

jdobbin · August 18, 2006

Perhaps Cancer reseach program should be hiring the people in charge of the AIDs PR programs...

Lots of cancer is behaviour induced, not just lung cancer. Add mouth cancer, ovarian cancer, skin cancer. Need I go on? Other diseases are behavior related as well. Heart disease, respiratory diseases.

Most of the research on AIDs is also applicable to cancer and other diseases. Anything that looks to improving the immuno response is transferable to any of the above diseases.

Leafless · August 18, 2006

Perhaps Cancer reseach program should be hiring the people in charge of the AIDs PR programs...

Lots of cancer is behaviour induced, not just lung cancer. Add mouth cancer, ovarian cancer, skin cancer. Need I go on? Other diseases are behavior related as well. Heart disease, respiratory diseases.

Most of the research on AIDs is also applicable to cancer and other diseases. Anything that looks to improving the immuno response is transferable to any of the above diseases.

Actually the latest in cancer therapy is actually using modified HIV virus and structured it to home in on the cancer cell.

But I agree with Army Guy and the disease is blown out of proportion in North America.

The thing with behavioral induced cancer is primarily caused by the misuse of legally available products excluding external risk factors like over exposure to the sun's rays.

HIV on the other hand is spread by a previous illegal method in which case I strongly would advise authorities to reinstate that law for the protection of the majority as to upgrade health standards in this country that presently compare to the out of control NO STANDARDS situation that exist in third world countries concerning especially HIV.

Canada is going backwards rather than forward in in areas pertaining to killer diseases.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4257783.stm

jdobbin · August 18, 2006

HIV on the other hand is spread by a previous illegal method in which case I strongly would advise authorities to reinstate that law for the protection of the majority as to upgrade health standards in this country that presently compare to the out of control NO STANDARDS situation that exist in third world countries concerning especially HIV.
Canada is going backwards rather than forward in in areas pertaining to killer diseases.

Homosexuality is illegal in many African states. Often on pain of death. Has that helped hinder the spread of AIDs?

Leafless · August 18, 2006

HIV on the other hand is spread by a previous illegal method in which case I strongly would advise authorities to reinstate that law for the protection of the majority as to upgrade health standards in this country that presently compare to the out of control NO STANDARDS situation that exist in third world countries concerning especially HIV.

Canada is going backwards rather than forward in in areas pertaining to killer diseases.

Homosexuality is illegal in many African states. Often on pain of death. Has that helped hinder the spread of AIDs?

Homosexual sex acts, organized rape, sexual degradation towards women, all of these is part of their culture.

All the condoms in the world isn't going to help that bunch.

Often their are no answers for third world countries and I think Africa is one of them, but there is NO excuse for Canada pertaining to the spread of HIV.

jdobbin · August 18, 2006

Homosexual sex acts, organized rape, sexual degradation towards women, all of these is part of their culture.
All the condoms in the world isn't going to help that bunch.

Often their are no answers for third world countries and I think Africa is one of them, but there is NO excuse for Canada pertaining to the spread of HIV.

How do you propose to make homsexuality illegal again and what sort of penalties do you see for it?

Leafless · August 18, 2006

Homosexual sex acts, organized rape, sexual degradation towards women, all of these is part of their culture.

All the condoms in the world isn't going to help that bunch.

Often their are no answers for third world countries and I think Africa is one of them, but there is NO excuse for Canada pertaining to the spread of HIV.

How do you propose to make homsexuality illegal again and what sort of penalties do you see for it?

That sounds like a LIBERAL problem but for a start Canada's Constitution will have to be rewritten as there are many problems concerning the EQUALITY aspect being dictated by the federal government in a way that discriminates against many other Canadians.

Maybe another 'kitchen accord' with free flowing champagne and plenty of pate and crackers will get the premiers in a good mood to come up with something OTHER than what Trudeau initially pulled off.

jbg · August 18, 2006

Pretty cynical. One thing is for sure, they can't use condoms that aren't available. You are making some broad generalizations here, attributing attitudes of relatively affluent North American youth to people living in poverty in Africa.
Teen age pregnancy is not about not caring, its about a sense of personal invulnerability - it can happen to other people, but it can't happen to me. To some degree, I'm sure that is one of the contributing factors to HIV spread as well.

And your entire post implies that humans, whether in Africa, teens or otherwise, are animals forced by some "mating season" to have sex.

Melanie_ · August 18, 2006

And your entire post implies that humans, whether in Africa, teens or otherwise, are animals forced by some "mating season" to have sex.

Not at all. People have the capacity to restrict their sexual activity, and make informed choices about who to have sex with and under what conditions (as do some animals). But they still are subject to their own innate sex drive, and it is unreasonable to expect them to never have sex because the optimum conditions can't be met.

Sex is just a part of life, not something dirty or shameful. If we can recognize that, we can stop judging people's sexuality and work on real solutions to HIV.

geoffrey · August 19, 2006

IF CONDOMS were the answer, then why don't we just supply them....for free? I'm serious.

Condoms are sold in some countries by governments such a Mali for the equivalent of many days wages. In Canada, condom availability is very controversial and therefore not always available for people that need it.

There will always be people that don't use condoms even when they are available but if Harper made it a policy to have free condoms available, it would be the boldest government policy anywhere on the planet.

Completely BS. You can get condoms at any public health centre (many through all cities) or any university campus free of charge. There is no one in Canada that doesn't have access to prevention, a walk away from their homes. Those that get AIDS in Canada, choose to accept that risk, there is no issue of protection not being available.

Which just goes to show, it's not a lack of condoms, it's irresponsible people. It's easy to prevent AIDS, don't have sex with questionable partners and wear a condom. Easy as that. Why do they need a damned conference on the topic?

jdobbin · August 19, 2006

Completely BS. You can get condoms at any public health centre (many through all cities) or any university campus free of charge. There is no one in Canada that doesn't have access to prevention, a walk away from their homes. Those that get AIDS in Canada, choose to accept that risk, there is no issue of protection not being available.
Which just goes to show, it's not a lack of condoms, it's irresponsible people. It's easy to prevent AIDS, don't have sex with questionable partners and wear a condom. Easy as that. Why do they need a damned conference on the topic?

In parts of rural Ontario, Manitoba and Alberta, presentations were made this week on the difficulty of education on condom use. The availability was also far more limited, especially for people under the age of 18.

In some parts of the States such as South Dakota, some pharmacists have removed all birth control from the shelves. Wish I was making that up but I'm not. CVS recently had to fire a pharmacist for not filling birth control prescriptions.

If all Harper did this week was to ensure that condoms would be available free to anyone who wanted them, it would have been heralded as an outstanding initiative. If all he did was promote the use of condoms, he would have gotten a standing ovation.

jdobbin · August 19, 2006

That sounds like a LIBERAL problem but for a start Canada's Constitution will have to be rewritten as there are many problems concerning the EQUALITY aspect being dictated by the federal government in a way that discriminates against many other Canadians.
Maybe another 'kitchen accord' with free flowing champagne and plenty of pate and crackers will get the premiers in a good mood to come up with something OTHER than what Trudeau initially pulled off.

Do you think Harper would do this if he gets his majority?

jdobbin · August 19, 2006

Clement talks about why the Feds made no annoucement at the conference.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/18082006/2/nati...on-clement.html

He said it became politicized when people asked that the South African health minister be asked to resign.

He was asked to resign because he was trying to sell his garlic concoction in the lobby as an AIDs treatment. And when China came to the minister's defence, they were asked why they arrest AIDs activists.

No one was asking Clement to resign. Nor was he trying to sell some garlic. What he is saying is non-sense.

jbg · August 19, 2006

And your entire post implies that humans, whether in Africa, teens or otherwise, are animals forced by some "mating season" to have sex.

Not at all. People have the capacity to restrict their sexual activity, and make informed choices about who to have sex with and under what conditions (as do some animals). But they still are subject to their own innate sex drive, and it is unreasonable to expect them to never have sex because the optimum conditions can't be met.

Sex is just a part of life, not something dirty or shameful. If we can recognize that, we can stop judging people's sexuality and work on real solutions to HIV.

You're missing my point. Certainly among American or Canadian teens, it's not too much to ask that they use a condom, both for pregnancy and AIDS reasons. As for Africa, things are perhaps a bit more complex, and the options fewer. But still, sex should not be conducted in an animalistic manner, particularly when most can ill afford to have many children.

Melanie_ · August 19, 2006

In many parts of Africa birth control is not readily available; should they just not have sex? The entire continent? Doesn't it make more sense to make condoms available?

jbg · August 19, 2006

In many parts of Africa birth control is not readily available; should they just not have sex? The entire continent? Doesn't it make more sense to make condoms available?

Absolutely does. Especially since condoms do not lend themselves to being stolen and sold by vicious and rapacious "leaders" the way food and cash aid does.

betsy · August 19, 2006

There will always be people that don't use condoms even when they are available but if Harper made it a policy to have free condoms available, it would be the boldest government policy anywhere on the planet.

I meant free condoms for Africa...not Canada. And the only reason why I suggested it was because of the dire situation in that country.

A part of me opposes that motion since I question the logic why should we be responsible for other nations' people....just because they have a corrupt government!

Africa seems to be bent on self-destructing.

However, there is no reason why we should be providing free condoms to everybody in Canada!

betsy · August 19, 2006

In many parts of Africa birth control is not readily available; should they just not have sex? The entire continent? Doesn't it make more sense to make condoms available?

If the risk is so high that you've got 50% chance of getting HIV...then it's just the question of which is more important for the person: sex or health

And if you've already got a spouse...better just stick to your one and only partner. Fidelity makes a great come-back!

betsy · August 19, 2006

Completely BS. You can get condoms at any public health centre (many through all cities) or any university campus free of charge. There is no one in Canada that doesn't have access to prevention, a walk away from their homes. Those that get AIDS in Canada, choose to accept that risk, there is no issue of protection not being available.

Which just goes to show, it's not a lack of condoms, it's irresponsible people. It's easy to prevent AIDS, don't have sex with questionable partners and wear a condom. Easy as that. Why do they need a damned conference on the topic?

In parts of rural Ontario, Manitoba and Alberta, presentations were made this week on the difficulty of education on condom use. The availability was also far more limited, especially for people under the age of 18.

Where did you get that info? From supporters of this conference? You bet we'll be seeing a lot of spin and heart-breaking stories!

jdobbin · August 19, 2006

Where did you get that info? From supporters of this conference? You bet we'll be seeing a lot of spin and heart-breaking stories!

No link for it, I'm afraid. I did see it on the live streaming video of the conference and there is supposed to be some post conference transcripts afterwards. I'll see what I can find as it is posted.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...mp;refer=canada

There were plenary sessions that followed this meeting that spoke about some countries like Thailand were excellent on condom use. It then went on to say that access to condoms wasn't universally easy across Canada.

So, can you be certain that access to condoms is equal in every jurisdiction? This was what the public health nurses were trying to emphasize. They said that it is not as easy in some places of Canada as some people think.