Klein slams Al Gore for attacking oilsands

[BubberMiley]

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/05072006/2/nati...s-projects.html

"Premier Ralph Klein has criticized former U.S. presidential candidate Al Gore for comments he made in a magazine interview in which he attacked the massive oilsands industry in northern Alberta." (CP)

Gore's "Junkies find veins in their toes" analogy is brilliant.

By comparison, Klein's response "And not only that, he's about as far left as you can go" makes him sound like a frustrated Internet forum poster.

I think a social conservative, massive-surplus-producing, welfare-cutting vice president like Gore is only about as far left as you can go in Alberta.

[jbg]

You quoted him out of context. Full quote:

I don't know what he proposes the world run on, maybe hot air," Klein told reporters Tuesday. "I don't listen to Al Gore in particular because he's a Democrat. And not only that, he's about as far left as you can go.

[geoffrey]

Poor unintelligent, shoot from the hip Al Gore. I hate how he makes himself and his former party look everytime he opens his mouth, I pity his soul.

The 114-wind turbine, 75-megawatt electricity generating facility will produce about 235,000 MWh/year of electricity – enough energy to power more than 32,500 homes annually.

“Wind power development is a huge economic and environmental opportunity for Alberta.” said Fred Gallagher, Managing Director of Vision Quest Windelectric Inc. “Alberta is becoming Canada’s renewable energy leader and Vision Quest is the largest owner and operator of wind energy in Canada.”

Source: http://www.nrcan.gc.ca/media/archives/news...3/2003-X8_e.htm

Dear Premier Klein,

Estimated at over 10,000 MW of power capacity, Alberta offers some of the best low-impact renewable energy resources in the world. The signatories of this letter share a vision for Alberta to become the Canadian leader in the development of these resources.1

To realize this vision, the Alberta Government must advance low-impact renewable energy through a variety of policy and market mechanisms that will facilitate its full development in the Alberta electricity market. Such mechanisms must impose little or no additional cost on electricity consumers and must take full advantage of federal incentives for renewable energy.

Source: http://www.pembina.org/pubs/pub.php?id=1063

The Program allows AUMA members to participate in the pool purchase of electricity and natural gas to achieve fair, stable pricing and also encourages environmental leadership through the aggregated purchase of green or renewable energy from Alberta source wind, biomass and run of the river (hydro). Currently 154 municipalities participate in the Program, with the towns of Pincher Creek and Okotoks purchasing 40 percent and 60 percent green energy respectively. The Program began in 2001 and introduced the green energy component as two percent of threshold. A new five-year contract has recently been completed increasing the green energy component to a 20 percent threshold. This will result in a reduction of approximately 60,000 tonnes of CO2 emissions per year. The AUMA’s Energy Aggregation Program represents the largest municipal purchase of green energy in Alberta and, it is believed, in North America.

Source: http://www.emeraldawards.com/2004.html

The CTrain (Calgary Transit Train system) is now 100 per cent emissions free. It is the first public Light Rail Transit system in North America to power its train fleet with wind-generated electricity.

Source:http://www.calgarytransit.com/environment/ride_d_wind.html

So put that in your car and burn it Al Gore. Alberta is the leading example to the world how to use green technology to combat emissions. It's not our problem if the rest of the world can't get off oil, us cutting our supply will simply have people going elsewhere.

The stupidity and rash uninformed BS in the words of this man make me fear that he "should" have been president.

[Biblio Bibuli]

Poor unintelligent, shoot from the hip Al Gore. I hate how he makes himself and his former party look everytime he opens his mouth, I pity his soul.

Quite the contrary. I think he's doing a brilliant job of keeping his name in the headlines.

Like my friend Oscar always says .... "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about."

What do I do, Geoffrey, what do I do?

[BubberMiley]

You quoted him out of context. Full quote:

I don't know what he proposes the world run on, maybe hot air," Klein told reporters Tuesday. "I don't listen to Al Gore in particular because he's a Democrat. And not only that, he's about as far left as you can go.

I don't think there's much further context to be had from Klein explaining how he only listens to people he agrees with.

Gore's point was that we need to reduce our dependence and work towards alternative means; Klein's point about hot air implies that trying to reduce our dependence is futile.

Using the junky analogy, I would expect such arguments from a pusher.

[Black Dog]

So put that in your car and burn it Al Gore. Alberta is the leading example to the world how to use green technology to combat emissions. It's not our problem if the rest of the world can't get off oil, us cutting our supply will simply have people going elsewhere.

Shit, I wonder if that defence would work for dope dealers.

"Well your honour, I'm just a businessman. It's not my fault that the junkies are hooked on the stuff. And besides, if I didn't sell them their fix, someone else would."

[jbg]

So put that in your car and burn it Al Gore. Alberta is the leading example to the world how to use green technology to combat emissions. It's not our problem if the rest of the world can't get off oil, us cutting our supply will simply have people going elsewhere.

Shit, I wonder if that defence would work for dope dealers.

"Well your honour, I'm just a businessman. It's not my fault that the junkies are hooked on the stuff. And besides, if I didn't sell them their fix, someone else would."

It's a little different. If Alberta cuts off the supply and the price skyrockets, one hting I can tell you is it won't be the wealthy people of the world that would suffer the most.

[BubberMiley]

If Alberta cuts off the supply and the price skyrockets, one hting I can tell you is it won't be the wealthy people of the world that would suffer the most.

Going cold turkey is never easy. But you're always better off looking for a good methadone program than another fix.

[geoffrey]

If Alberta cuts off the supply and the price skyrockets, one hting I can tell you is it won't be the wealthy people of the world that would suffer the most.

Going cold turkey is never easy. But you're always better off looking for a good methadone program than another fix.

Methadone isn't cold turkey. Alberta is the methadone of the energy sector. The best at producing the high (oil) and the best at providing it in a better way (leader in green energy).

Oil companies aren't stupid, they know things are changing. They will be the leading investors in our future. Long-term profit is the goal, and that requires R&D in the next best thing.

[BubberMiley]

Nobody's confusing methadone with cold turkey, and Gore is the one calling for R&D to alleviate the inevitable economic burden/collapse that will result from our dependence on cheap oil.

The oil industry's efforts at funding alternative fuel research is about as superficial a PR effort as the Hell's Angels handing out stuffed animals at the children's hospital. Compared to the obscene profits they're currently making, research money into alternative fuels is practically nothing.

[apollo19]

Poor unintelligent, shoot from the hip Al Gore. I hate how he makes himself and his former party look everytime he opens his mouth, I pity his soul.

So put that in your car and burn it Al Gore. Alberta is the leading example to the world how to use green technology to combat emissions. It's not our problem if the rest of the world can't get off oil, us cutting our supply will simply have people going elsewhere.

I don't understand how people in Alberta can claim they are "green" in the way they do things when as a whole the province is the highest contributer to greenhouse gas emissions in Canada. See this map for emissions intensity. This chart shows that Alberta emits more greenhouse gases then all of Ontario, even though it has 1/4 of the population. Alberta also emits close to 40% of all GHG's in Canada, even though it has 10% of the population. I think its time for people to face up to the facts that Alberta is the biggest emitter of GHG's in Canada, and it is mainly driven not by people driving cars and other city items, but mainly from the oil sands. Sure, things like the C-Train may run off renewable energy sources, but the oil sands are the largest polluters in Canada. On top of the emissions they give out, you have to destroy landscape and "reclaim" it over a period of years, which is the main point I think Gore was getting at.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

About one in every six jobs in Alberta is oilfield related. Did Klein stand up for the interests of Alberta in a word yes. Is he right, no. The fact that the tar sands consumes a double digit portion of our clean natural gas production to turn into steam a double digit amount of our fresh water supply to create a dirty energy resource is worth looking at though.

Are the tar sands worth developing,yes. Is the economic effort in the best interests of Albertans, yes. Will this continue, hell yes.

[Shuriken]

Wow, this is the first time I've ever seen Gore refered to as "conservative".

Anyway, the mans a nutjob. Which wing he's a nutjob on doesn't matter. He should wear a gag at all times to prevent him from saying stupid things.

About one in every six jobs in Alberta is oilfield related.

Then it's gone down quite a bit, which is one thing Klein has been working on.

[geoffrey]

I don't understand how people in Alberta can claim they are "green" in the way they do things when as a whole the province is the highest contributer to greenhouse gas emissions in Canada. See this map for emissions intensity.

The evaporation from the Great Lakes contributes more green house gas (remember that CO2 is only about 1%, water vapour is the gas that actually makes a difference) than Alberta. Blame Ontario for having the lakes.

I just showed a ton of links that shows that Alberta is the world leader in providing and using Green technologies. What has your government done lately?

This chart shows that Alberta emits more greenhouse gases then all of Ontario, even though it has 1/4 of the population. Alberta also emits close to 40% of all GHG's in Canada, even though it has 10% of the population.

No, more CO2. CO2 doesn't equate to Green house gases. It's Ontario that has smog days where you can't go outside, Alberta has never. I wonder who in REAL terms has clearner air? Grow up and look at reality instead of Suzuki's lastest quest.

I think its time for people to face up to the facts that Alberta is the biggest emitter of GHG's in Canada, and it is mainly driven not by people driving cars and other city items, but mainly from the oil sands.

False, again.

Sure, things like the C-Train may run off renewable energy sources, but the oil sands are the largest polluters in Canada. On top of the emissions they give out, you have to destroy landscape and "reclaim" it over a period of years, which is the main point I think Gore was getting at.

What do you want us to do, shut it down? Are you ready for $5-6 a litre gas, or a home heating bill in the thousands per month? How about everything made from plastic?

[jbg]

What do you want us to do, shut it down? Are you ready for $5-6 a litre gas, or a home heating bill in the thousands per month? How about everything made from plastic?

Don't you understand, these Kyoto types want to shut the West down economically. The ones that don't are the Demairis/Maurice Strong types that are profiting mightily off Kyoto. Thus, Chretien's "gut" telling him to support it.

[Topaz]

IF you look at it by the evidence of science Gore is probably right. If you look at it the way Klein does, which is the making of huge amounts of money from the sands, one can understand why he said those things about Gore. Whose right??? Both, I guess, a bad and poor environment can kill people and too much money can lead to nasty things too.

[apollo19]

I just showed a ton of links that shows that Alberta is the world leader in providing and using Green technologies. What has your government done lately?

No, more CO2. CO2 doesn't equate to Green house gases. It's Ontario that has smog days where you can't go outside, Alberta has never. I wonder who in REAL terms has clearner air? Grow up and look at reality instead of Suzuki's lastest quest.

What do you want us to do, shut it down? Are you ready for $5-6 a litre gas, or a home heating bill in the thousands per month? How about everything made from plastic?

I don't think this discussion is what Ontario is doing wrong, so I won't bring that into it (although McGuinty shutting down the coal plants does help... although it is delayed). Also, by looking at that chart Alberta emits more than just the most CO2 in the country... it also emits the most methane and HFCs.

The smog is also a red herring, because it isn't exactly related to global warming. It is also not a problem in Ontario alone, as it is also in New York, Detroit, Montreal, etc. Albertans in Edmonton and Calgary may not "feel" or "see" the affects of the pollution caused by the oil sands, but driving out of Edmonton looking at the "reclaimed land" sure is an experience.

No, I don't want to shut the oil sands down. However, I would like to see some form of a revenue neutral carbon tax (like what Ignatieff proposed) so that companies reaping the benefits of the resource are inclined to do so in the most environmentally friendly way, along with more tax credits for hybrid cars and slightly higher gas taxes which are raised a few cents each year, which would force people to look at alternatives.

[geoffrey]

Uh huh. Higher gas prices = higher food prices... did you know that? How much are you going to pay for an apple??

Carbon taxes are simply a transfer program from Alberta to the ROC. This is unfortunate when all the real pollution (see smog, higher asthma and cancer rates) is coming from Ontario and Quebec. You can't even eat the fish in Ontario due to pollution... all stream advisories for fish in Alberta are from natural mercury leeching, no hazardous pollution levels.

CO2 is a red hering, the real problem is in all the carcinogins and toxins, and you find those in the Eastern area of this country. Tax those, before you tax the air you breathe out.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Dude it doesn't matter. Aberta is on the right track in economic terms and the rest of the nation is rotting in the sidings. They are jealous and desperate, poor and angry. The real villian here is the feds for cutting the funding they give to the provinces. That has caused them to raise their taxes to make up the revenue shortfalls. Cut a fed tax and eat a provincial one that is the fed answer.

The rest of Canada wants a piece of the Alberta pie and the welfare state will give them what they want or there will be a new administration installed to do it.

[yam]

As i remember the sands in economic terms fluctuate according to the price of oil imports. At the moment they are doing ok. However, to process it costs a fortune and is timely. The recent/past has shown that imports have been cheaper. Nonetheless, with the pending world oil crisis (apparently it has peaked and now is spiralling down since it cannot maintain the high demands for it), but all is ok here . . . so far. If Canada can maintain this - terrific. I wonder what is going to happen between the US and Canada in a few yrs about canadian oil supplying the US (let alone between Alberta and the other provinces rightly or wrongly). If Canada does not supply the US surely the latter will implement trade blocks to Canada's other resource export zones?

[Drea]

Dude it doesn't matter. Aberta is on the right track in economic terms and the rest of the nation is rotting in the sidings. They are jealous and desperate, poor and angry.

Oh really? The rest of the entire nation... rotting... jealous, desperate, poor, angry...

Have you forgotten the jewel of the country, you know, the province to your left? The one with the beautiful scenery and clean water and JOBS, tons of JOBS. Pssst...it's called British Columbia.. but don't tell anyone, we wouldn't want Alberta to feel bad.

The real villian here is the feds for cutting the funding they give to the provinces. That has caused them to raise their taxes to make up the revenue shortfalls. Cut a fed tax and eat a provincial one that is the fed answer.

The rest of Canada wants a piece of the Alberta pie and the welfare state will give them what they want or there will be a new administration installed to do it.

huh?

[cybercoma]

If Alberta cuts off the supply and the price skyrockets, one hting I can tell you is it won't be the wealthy people of the world that would suffer the most.

Going cold turkey is never easy. But you're always better off looking for a good methadone program than another fix.

Do you drive? Do you heat your home? Do you have maili delivered to your house? Do you buy anything? Do you have hydro?

How much oil are you using in a day? More than you even know, no doubt.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Dude it doesn't matter. Aberta is on the right track in economic terms and the rest of the nation is rotting in the sidings. They are jealous and desperate, poor and angry.

Oh really? The rest of the entire nation... rotting... jealous, desperate, poor, angry...

Have you forgotten the jewel of the country, you know, the province to your left? The one with the beautiful scenery and clean water and JOBS, tons of JOBS. Pssst...it's called British Columbia.. but don't tell anyone, we wouldn't want Alberta to feel bad.

The real villian here is the feds for cutting the funding they give to the provinces. That has caused them to raise their taxes to make up the revenue shortfalls. Cut a fed tax and eat a provincial one that is the fed answer.

The rest of Canada wants a piece of the Alberta pie and the welfare state will give them what they want or there will be a new administration installed to do it.

huh?

You know what, you are right! I would gladly see a Northwest Canada formed from the Ontario west border to the Beauford and the Pacific. BC is a very nice place and a little more sensible than the eastern fellas. BC and Alberta already have a few trade agreements and mutual political agendas to work with each other. I apologize, just used to butting up against the eastern bureaucracy from Ottawa.

I really wish that Alberta could stay in Canada, but it is simply to costly to citizens of Alberta to have to pay the lions share of equalization. BC now becoming a hve province will some of its dollars head eastward now. Saskatchewan is on the bubble too now, unfortunately Manitoba is somewhat lagging but they are getting better. The territories will only need help for a while while the resources begin to be developed, give it less than a decade before its possible.

[BubberMiley]

If Alberta cuts off the supply and the price skyrockets, one hting I can tell you is it won't be the wealthy people of the world that would suffer the most.

Going cold turkey is never easy. But you're always better off looking for a good methadone program than another fix.

Do you drive? Do you heat your home? Do you have maili delivered to your house? Do you buy anything? Do you have hydro?

How much oil are you using in a day? More than you even know, no doubt.

That's my point, that our entire lifestyle and economy is completely dependent on oil--hence, the junky analogy. I'm not saying I'm any different from anyone else, and I also don't feel like I'm a hypocrite for pointing it out, just because I'm the same as everyone else. I'm just saying we have a problem and the best way to deal with it is to act now, not later when we are jonesing and desperate.

[jbg]

That's my point, that our entire lifestyle and economy is completely dependent on oil--hence, the junky analogy. I'm not saying I'm any different from anyone else, and I also don't feel like I'm a hypocrite for pointing it out, just because I'm the same as everyone else. I'm just saying we have a problem and the best way to deal with it is to act now, not later when we are jonesing and desperate.

"Jonesing"??? That word is new to me.

Anyway, by that logic, runout of oil has been predicted since at least the early 1920's. Each time, short term price rises have called forth new supplies. That's happening now with the oil sands (Alberta) and oil shale (US West). These articles, about Saudi Arabia's sudden urge to find oil (link) and about South Africa's successful leap into making oil from coal (link) demonstrates yet two more likely paths towards ameliorating the "oil shortage".

The "chicken little" approach, followed by massive, governmental, money-wasting efforts to "solve" the problem do nothing than use taxpayers' money for little or no gain. Does anyone remember how politically sexy "renewable" wind power once was? Well, Ted Kennedy doesn't want it; near Martha's Vineyard or Hyannisport (for people not familiar with America, his playgrounds for the uber-rich in Massachusetts).