Japan 1945? Avoiding a Iran Ground War: Drop the bomb

[John Johnston]

10 minutes ago, Barquentine said:

How was this the right decision?

AI: "The two atomic bombs dropped on Japan in 1945 resulted in an estimated 150,000 to over 246,000 total deaths. The majority were civilians, with 70,000–120,000+ dying instantly or within months in Hiroshima and 40,000–74,000+ in Nagasaki, with many more dying from radiation-related illnesses in the following years."

And what irony that the nation that did this now preaches 'No nukes' to other countries.

And people actually want the US or Israel to do this to Iranian civilians?

This isn't taking Iran's side. It's about humanity.

Not to mention dropping thousands of incendiary bombs on paper houses that housed basically civilians. 

[John Stone]

1 hour ago, Barquentine said:

How was this the right decision?

AI: "The two atomic bombs dropped on Japan in 1945 resulted in an estimated 150,000 to over 246,000 total deaths. The majority were civilians, with 70,000–120,000+ dying instantly or within months in Hiroshima and 40,000–74,000+ in Nagasaki, with many more dying from radiation-related illnesses in the following years."

And what irony that the nation that did this now preaches 'No nukes' to other countries.

And people actually want the US or Israel to do this to Iranian civilians?

This isn't taking Iran's side. It's about humanity.

It was the correct decision because ironically it saved lives - the U.S. had the science / technology to produce more nukes? 

The Japs were like fish in a barrel - contained. Time was on the side of the U.S.

Imagine a sequence of Nukes, 3-4 months downstream - who would the U.S. negotiate with? 

The plans for invading Japan were shelved the moment the nukes were dropped. 

Today, fusion weapons make fission weapons look like ladyfingers. 

[ironstone]

2 hours ago, Barquentine said:

How was this the right decision?

AI: "The two atomic bombs dropped on Japan in 1945 resulted in an estimated 150,000 to over 246,000 total deaths. The majority were civilians, with 70,000–120,000+ dying instantly or within months in Hiroshima and 40,000–74,000+ in Nagasaki, with many more dying from radiation-related illnesses in the following years."

And what irony that the nation that did this now preaches 'No nukes' to other countries.

And people actually want the US or Israel to do this to Iranian civilians?

This isn't taking Iran's side. It's about humanity.

As I said, the results of dropping the A bombs in Japan were horrific. But it must be weighed against the expected casualties of a land invasion.

Japan ignored the Potsdam Declaration for unconditional surrender July 26

First bomb August 6, no response from Japan

Second bomb August 9. Even that did not get an immediate response.

August 15 is when they finally offered unconditional surrender and I believe there was still strong opposition from the military to the emperors decision.

 

 

[John Stone]

2 hours ago, ironstone said:

As I said, the results of dropping the A bombs in Japan were horrific. But it must be weighed against the expected casualties of a land invasion.

Japan ignored the Potsdam Declaration for unconditional surrender July 26

First bomb August 6, no response from Japan

Second bomb August 9. Even that did not get an immediate response.

August 15 is when they finally offered unconditional surrender and I believe there was still strong opposition from the military to the emperors decision.

 

Much later Truman confided Stalin's reaction when he informed him that the U.S. had developed a new type of bomb and intended doing R&D on Japan. 

"Stalin smiled and said he appreciated my telling him - but it was obvious he did not know what what I was talking about - the atomic bomb!" / Truman, 1945

On the other hand, Germany had a nuclear research program during the war - with plans to build a nuclear reactor. 

IF the United States had not entered WWII in 1941 it is quite likely the fission weapons would not have been developed when they were - massive 'push' by FDR to 'get it done' -  he had been convinced  of  the weapon's potential and considered its development existential - science / technology. 

 

[herbie]

3 hours ago, ironstone said:

August 15 is when they finally offered unconditional surrender and I believe there was still strong opposition from the military to the emperors decision.

As Aug 9 was not only the Nagasaki bomb, but the day the USSR attacked.
Less than a week of them advancing so fast it was obvious to even the Emperor surrendering to the US & Western allies was better than the USSR occupying one inch of their home islands.

[August1991]

On 4/1/2026 at 12:32 AM, ironstone said:

As horrific as the results were in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, I think dropping the bombs was the right decision back then.

....

Nowadays, Trump should maybe drop the bomb on Jeddah or Qom: leave Mecca like Tokyo it was. 

I'm Canadian. I sorta understand Americans.

Other foreigners don't quite understand the frustration of Americans.

 

[Barquentine]

On 4/3/2026 at 1:21 PM, ironstone said:

But it must be weighed against the expected casualties of a land invasion.

Yeah, that's what people always say to make themselves feel better about it.

[Barquentine]

On 4/3/2026 at 12:12 PM, John Stone said:

It was the correct decision because ironically it saved lives

I wonder who first said that? And people keep repeating it - to assuage their guilt maybe?

We might lose a few thousand soldiers - better kill 1/4 million civilians, right?

Or was it just an experiment to see how Nukes would work?

[John Stone]

5 minutes ago, Barquentine said:

I wonder who first said that? And people keep repeating it - to assuage their guilt maybe?

We might lose a few thousand soldiers - better kill 1/4 million civilians, right?

Or was it just an experiment to see how Nukes would work?

............. it is true, it did save lives ...........keep in mind the Japanese were beaten, they knew it but despite that wouldn't surrender... the Bushido Code amongst the warrior  / ruler class burned brightly. 

I think there is some truth that it was a continuation of R&D ..... maybe with a bit of racism thrown in.

Be grateful the Allies got there first with development ........ gives credence to the belief that science and technology wins wars. 

 

[Barquentine]

1 minute ago, John Stone said:

it is true, it did save lives

Proof?

It killed about 1/4 million. Did it save 1/4 million+1?

Or do you mean it saved some American lives because of course their lives are worth more than Japanese?

And don't forget: God's on OUR side!

[John Stone]

52 minutes ago, Barquentine said:

Proof?

It killed about 1/4 million. Did it save 1/4 million+1?

Or do you mean it saved some American lives because of course their lives are worth more than Japanese?

And don't forget: God's on OUR side!

 

Bombs dropped from  (only) 279 B-29s heavy bombers burned out much of Tokyo.  More than 90,000 and possibly 100,000 Japanese civilians were killed and one million left homeless, making this single attack by only 279 bombers the most destructive single air attack in human history. 

Do u believe by dropping the bomb lives were saved????

Imagine a conventional attack with 1000 bombers - city by city, port by port relentless. 

One bomber, one bomb - saved lives. 

What does God have to do with killing - geesh? 

[Barquentine]

1 hour ago, John Stone said:

Imagine a conventional attack with 1000 bombers - city by city, port by port relentless. 

One bomber, one bomb - saved lives.

Why would (did) they have to bomb civilians? Military and strategic sites would have sufficed. Destroy their navy and air force.

You sure it was only one bomb?

[John Stone]

Just now, Barquentine said:

Why would (did) they have to bomb civilians? Military and strategic sites would have sufficed. Destroy their navy and air force.

You sure it was only one bomb?

They (allies / US) destroyed their air force, navy .......... they (Marines) had island hopped right back to  Japan's home islands. 

The U.S. AAF in WWII had complete air superiority over Japan - total! 

Strategic bombing destroys morale of the civilian population. 

No, it was (2) bombs - but the first demonstrated the devastation of just one - the second resulted in unconditional surrender. 

Strategic bombing today is the spectre to prevent a strategic nuke exchange............ u don't believe they're targeting hardened target I hope? 

A megaton's safety distance is 25 miles. 

 

[John Stone]

7 hours ago, August1991 said:

Nowadays, Trump should maybe drop the bomb on Jeddah or Qom: leave Mecca like Tokyo it was. 

I'm Canadian. I sorta understand Americans.

Other foreigners don't quite understand the frustration of Americans.

 

............ arguably, 'sorta' describes it accurately.

In terms of science, technology, commerce alone, the USA is likely the greatest Nation civilization has ever recorded. 

That is not to say it will remain so.............. 

There are those that are tugging on superman's cape ................... some would say successfully. 

[ironstone]

5 hours ago, Barquentine said:

Yeah, that's what people always say to make themselves feel better about it.

If there are going to be casualties, is it not the lesser of the two evils that they be on the side of the enemy?

[John Stone]

19 hours ago, ironstone said:

If there are going to be casualties, is it not the lesser of the two evils that they be on the side of the enemy?

These guys would agree with you ............

" We will keep pushing, keep advancing, no quarter, no mercy for our enemies"/ Pentagon Pete Hegseth

"The object of war is not to die for your country,  but to make the other bst'd die for his" / Patton

'I believe that forgiving the enemy is god's function, our job is to arrange the meeting" / Norman Schwartzkof

 

So would this guy .............. a nation needs to be grateful. 

"

 

Edited April 6 by John Stone

[Barquentine]

20 hours ago, ironstone said:

If there are going to be casualties, is it not the lesser of the two evils that they be on the side of the enemy?

If they are civilians, NO!

[Barquentine]

23 hours ago, John Stone said:

Strategic bombing destroys morale of the civilian population.

No, it doesn't. London, Dresden, Ukraine, now Iran. In fact it can have the opposite effect. And even if it did, bombing civilians is a war crime. Nothing short of murder.

[Barquentine]

On 4/5/2026 at 4:05 AM, August1991 said:

Nowadays, Trump should maybe drop the bomb on Jeddah or Qom

WTF?

[John Stone]

1 minute ago, Barquentine said:

No, it doesn't. London, Dresden, Ukraine, now Iran. In fact it can have the opposite effect. And even if it did, bombing civilians is a war crime. Nothing short of murder.

War crimes? 

Superman isn't concerned about 'war' crimes. 

Dead civilians make lousy employees contributing to the war effort. .............. 

Agree Dresden was a terror bombing - the war was won. 

 "There are a lot of people who say that bombing cannot win the war. My reply to that is that it has never been tried" / Bomber Harris - Bomber Command WWII

 

[Barquentine]

21 hours ago, John Stone said:

In terms of science, technology, commerce alone, the USA is likely the greatest Nation civilization has ever recorded.

But you can't compare empires that way. The Roman Empire was way more successful based on inflation of money, technology, etc...

[John Johnston]

John Stone said...

In terms of science, technology, commerce alone, the USA is likely the greatest Nation civilization has ever recorded. 

That is not to say it will remain so.............. 

There are those that are tugging on superman's cape ................... some would say successfully. 

 

China has emerged as the leading global power in the creation of emerging technologies, dramatically outperforming the United States in the vast majority of critical technological fields. A key indicator of this is that China is dominating the United States when it comes to scientific publications.

This is concerning as it threatens to erode U.S. leadership across the innovation landscape. ITIF conducted a comprehensive analysis of China’s innovation capabilities last year, and that research concluded that China’s strategic, state-backed scientific advancement across advanced sectors—driven by bold industrial policy, generous government subsidies, and ecosystem integration—has resulted in a surge of global patents, indicating it has transitioned to become a global innovation leader. China is demonstrating dominance in robotics, leading in battery supply, innovating public health by doubling clinical biotech trials, outpacing in quantum communication with a 1,200-mile QKD corridor, experiencing near-peer achievement in AI output, and narrowing gaps in semiconductors and chemicals.

Similarly, according to the latest findings from Australian Strategic Policy Institute’s (ASPI) Critical Technology Tracker, which evaluates 64 critical technology categories across 8 domains (e.g., artificial intelligence and robotics), show that China leading in 57, while the United States leads in only 7 technology sub-categories. This is concerning because these critical technologies are the key input to advanced sectors that China is quickly overtaking.

When evaluating the top 10 percent of high-quality scientific publications, ASPI finds that China surpasses the United States across all 8 critical technology domains. The gap is particularly pronounced in the energy and environment domain, where China accounts for 46 percent of top-tier publications compared to just 10 percent for the United States. Despite U.S. leadership in AI, China produces more top publications, contributing 30 percent versus 18 percent for the United States. 

[John Stone]

6 minutes ago, Barquentine said:

But you can't compare empires that way. The Roman Empire was way more successful based on inflation of money, technology, etc...

re: 'The Roman Empire was way more successful based on inflation of money, technology, etc"

I didn't realize the Romans walked on the moon, developed  nuke energy and buffalo wings .............. nod to pizza. 

The Roman Empire was colonial .........but certainly not Global  ......... the US is global largely due to grooming of their international military bases........... and by extension, their commerce. (weapons sales).

The US does owe it's supremacy tho on the desire of so-called immigrants to resettle to that 'shining city on a hill" - they brought their science and technology. Arguably the development of America's nuke program is a tribute to 'immigrants'. 

 

[John Stone]

7 minutes ago, John Johnston said:

John Stone said...

In terms of science, technology, commerce alone, the USA is likely the greatest Nation civilization has ever recorded. 

That is not to say it will remain so.............. 

There are those that are tugging on superman's cape ................... some would say successfully. 

 

China has emerged as the leading global power in the creation of emerging technologies, dramatically outperforming the United States in the vast majority of critical technological fields. A key indicator of this is that China is dominating the United States when it comes to scientific publications.

This is concerning as it threatens to erode U.S. leadership across the innovation landscape. ITIF conducted a comprehensive analysis of China’s innovation capabilities last year, and that research concluded that China’s strategic, state-backed scientific advancement across advanced sectors—driven by bold industrial policy, generous government subsidies, and ecosystem integration—has resulted in a surge of global patents, indicating it has transitioned to become a global innovation leader. China is demonstrating dominance in robotics, leading in battery supply, innovating public health by doubling clinical biotech trials, outpacing in quantum communication with a 1,200-mile QKD corridor, experiencing near-peer achievement in AI output, and narrowing gaps in semiconductors and chemicals.

Similarly, according to the latest findings from Australian Strategic Policy Institute’s (ASPI) Critical Technology Tracker, which evaluates 64 critical technology categories across 8 domains (e.g., artificial intelligence and robotics), show that China leading in 57, while the United States leads in only 7 technology sub-categories. This is concerning because these critical technologies are the key input to advanced sectors that China is quickly overtaking.

When evaluating the top 10 percent of high-quality scientific publications, ASPI finds that China surpasses the United States across all 8 critical technology domains. The gap is particularly pronounced in the energy and environment domain, where China accounts for 46 percent of top-tier publications compared to just 10 percent for the United States. Despite U.S. leadership in AI, China produces more top publications, contributing 30 percent versus 18 percent for the United States. 

.............. all true............. the ChiComs have consistency of leadership .......... planning. 

Laughable to compare China to Russia ................ 

A Democracy certainly does not have consistency of leadership and planning (strategy) ........ it's way too partisan.

The US of course take partisan politics to another level ....... totally useless governance domestically and geo-politically. 

............ and it is going to get worse. 

 

[John Johnston]

35 minutes ago, John Stone said:

.............. all true............. the ChiComs have consistency of leadership .......... planning. 

Laughable to compare China to Russia ................ 

A Democracy certainly does not have consistency of leadership and planning (strategy) ........ it's way too partisan.

The US of course take partisan politics to another level ....... totally useless governance domestically and geo-politically. 

............ and it is going to get worse. 

 

It is about to get much worse I'm afraid. The two top people, Trump and Hegseth are absolute and complete Id*iots with massive amounts of power. One is senile the other is a Child. And one does not cancel the other.