Why aren't western pro-palestinian protesters supporting the peace talks?

[carepov]

11 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Well now, more or less peacefully and they do face discrimination as I am sure you know more about than I do. Saying they live peacefully is a bit of a tell there. Many Palestinian citizens of Israel are not happy with how they are treated. 

https://imeu.org/resources/palestine-101/fact-sheet-palestinian-citizens-of-israel/229

Many citizens of every country on earth are not happy with how they are treated.

The fact is Arab-israelis have more freedoms and better standards of living than anywhere else in the ME.

The main point is that Israel is a multiticultural society with protections and full rights for all minorities.  Unlike any other ME country where actual ethnic cleansing is accepted.

[John Stone]

On 11/2/2025 at 1:11 AM, carepov said:

Many citizens of every country on earth are not happy with how they are treated.

The fact is Arab-israelis have more freedoms and better standards of living than anywhere else in the ME.

The main point is that Israel is a multiticultural society with protections and full rights for all minorities.  Unlike any other ME country where actual ethnic cleansing is accepted.

So-called Palestinians with Israeli citizenship have the right to vote - emphasis 'those with Israeli citizenship'. Population and it's effect on democracy and by extension political power is like the sword of Damocles hanging over Israel - imagine if Israel annexed the West Bank / Gaza? It would be forced to deny suffrage to a huge portion of the annexed population - akin  to the situation South Africa lived thru with apartheid. Baring a 3rd World war (geo-realignment) there is no solution - the struggle is not about the Palestinian 'cause' it's about raw power and those that use the Palestinian cause as a wedge issue to promote political power. 

[carepov]

8 hours ago, John Stone said:

So-called Palestinians with Israeli citizenship have the right to vote - emphasis 'those with Israeli citizenship'. Population and it's effect on democracy and by extension political power is like the sword of Damocles hanging over Israel - imagine if Israel annexed the West Bank / Gaza? It would be forced to deny suffrage to a huge portion of the annexed population - akin  to the situation South Africa lived thru with apartheid. Baring a 3rd World war (geo-realignment) there is no solution - the struggle is not about the Palestinian 'cause' it's about raw power and those that use the Palestinian cause as a wedge issue to promote political power. 

Annexation is not a viable option.   Only a small minority of Israelis support this.

An immediate 2-state solution is also not an option (despite the wishful thinking of many westerners).  Palestinian leaders, supported by a majority of Palestinians, want to wipe out Israel and control all the land.

If there is to be any hope, Palestinians must recognize Israel and denounce violence.

 

[John Stone]

12 hours ago, carepov said:

Annexation is not a viable option.   Only a small minority of Israelis support this.

An immediate 2-state solution is also not an option (despite the wishful thinking of many westerners).  Palestinian leaders, supported by a majority of Palestinians, want to wipe out Israel and control all the land.

If there is to be any hope, Palestinians must recognize Israel and denounce violence.

 

never happen - if the Palestinian argument didn't exist it the Arabs would need to invent it. 

[carepov]

On 11/17/2025 at 9:53 AM, John Stone said:

never happen - if the Palestinian argument didn't exist it the Arabs would need to invent it. 

Perfect peace is unlikely, however a realistic hope would be to return to the relative peace in the 1990s.

[eyeball]

On 11/16/2025 at 7:08 PM, carepov said:

If there is to be any hope, Palestinians must recognize Israel and denounce violence.

I'm pretty sure that'll need to be a two way street to fly. For that you'll need secular lefties from both sides.

Until this happens it will remain completely hopeless.

[carepov]

18 hours ago, eyeball said:

I'm pretty sure that'll need to be a two way street to fly. For that you'll need secular lefties from both sides.

Until this happens it will remain completely hopeless.

Israel is full of secular lefties.   The labour party was in power several times and would return to power if peace was a realistic possibility.

It takes two to make peace but only one to make war.

[eyeball]

57 minutes ago, carepov said:

Israel is full of secular lefties.   The labour party was in power several times and would return to power if peace was a realistic possibility.

It takes two to make peace but only one to make war.

Unfortunately Israel is also full of religious conservatives, one of them squashed the last realistic effort at peace.

Obviously you need a stable secure environment to cultivate progressive secularism so I still think Israelis will need to be kept away from Palestinians long enough that can occur in Palestinian communities and territories.

 

[carepov]

On 11/22/2025 at 9:55 PM, eyeball said:

Unfortunately Israel is also full of religious conservatives, one of them squashed the last realistic effort at peace.

Obviously you need a stable secure environment to cultivate progressive secularism so I still think Israelis will need to be kept away from Palestinians long enough that can occur in Palestinian communities and territories.

 

Isn't it ironic that one of the only places in the world, and the only place in thd entire Middle East, that you will find significant numbers of progressive secular Arabs is inside Israel?

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, carepov said:

Isn't it ironic that one of the only places in the world, and the only place in thd entire Middle East, that you will find significant numbers of progressive secular Arabs is inside Israel?

Not particularly. What's ironic is that Palestine was the most progressive place in the entire ME and surrounding region when European Jews immigrated there. Palestinians were more progressive than places like Canada that refused entry to Jewish refugees.

What's also ironic is how right wingers here, who like to point out how progressive Israel is, overlook the fact lefties in Israel who are even the least little bit sympathetic to Palestinians are all too often referred to as self-loathing Jews and anti-Semitic racists.

Do you think its ironic that lefties everywhere laugh when righties behave like that?

That said if the left were a race, there probably would have long since been blood everywhere by now.

 

Edited November 25, 2025 by eyeball

[carepov]

52 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Not particularly. What's ironic is that Palestine was the most progressive place in the entire ME and surrounding region when European Jews immigrated there. Palestinians were more progressive than places like Canada that refused entry to Jewish refugees.

What's also ironic is how right wingers here, who like to point out how progressive Israel is, overlook the fact lefties in Israel who are even the least little bit sympathetic to Palestinians are all too often referred to as self-loathing Jews and anti-Semitic racists.

Do you think its ironic that lefties everywhere laugh when righties behave like that?

That said if the left were a race, there probably would have long since been blood everywhere by now.

When I think of progressive top of the list is women's rights.  How do you measure progressive?

[eyeball]

22 minutes ago, carepov said:

When I think of progressive top of the list is women's rights.  How do you measure progressive?

A little higher - were universal human rights tip the scales.

[carepov]

14 hours ago, eyeball said:

Not particularly. What's ironic is that Palestine was the most progressive place in the entire ME and surrounding region when European Jews immigrated there. Palestinians were more progressive than places like Canada that refused entry to Jewish refugees.

So how could Palestine in 30s and 40s (under British rule) be more progressive than Canada?

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, carepov said:

So how could Palestine in 30s and 40s (under British rule) be more progressive than Canada?

Palestine welcomed Jews at first and Canada didn't. We actually sent a boatload of Jewish refugees back to Europe, some of whom were murdered by the NAZIS.

I recommend this documentary by Al Jazeera on Palestine.

Palestine 1920: The Other Side of the Palestinian Story

[carepov]

38 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Palestine welcomed Jews at first and Canada didn't. We actually sent a boatload of Jewish refugees back to Europe, some of whom were murdered by the NAZIS.

I recommend this documentary by Al Jazeera on Palestine.

Palestine 1920: The Other Side of the Palestinian Story

I somehow doubt that Arab leaders in Palestine welcomed Jewish immigrants:

[eyeball]

Just now, carepov said:

I somehow doubt that Arab leaders in Palestine welcomed Jewish immigrants:

Progressive and other ordinary Palestinians did. Palestine was a destination for immigrants from many places for that reason as well as the work.

Did you watch the documentary?

[marcus]

On 11/24/2025 at 7:08 PM, carepov said:

Isn't it ironic that one of the only places in the world, and the only place in thd entire Middle East, that you will find significant numbers of progressive secular Arabs is inside Israel?

Somehow, I don't think you really believe that.

Unless you are ignorant to what is happening inside Israel and what many in Arab countries are able to do.

Any idea how Christians are treated by Zionists?

If you need help understanding it better, here is more information on the treatment of Christians by Israel:
 

 

Edited November 26, 2025 by marcus

[carepov]

On 11/25/2025 at 3:54 PM, eyeball said:

Progressive and other ordinary Palestinians did. Palestine was a destination for immigrants from many places for that reason as well as the work.

Did you watch the documentary?

Yes, your documentary (Qatari propaganda) contradicts your claim: Jews were not welcomed by Arabs in Palestine. 

I love how they explained the 1948 war:

To paraphrase: The Zionists declared independence then forced 700,000 Palestinians from their homes.

No mention of the genocidal attacks by multiple Arab armies.

Also false is the claim that Arab Palestinians are the only displaced people in history not allowed to return to their home.  So ridiculous. 

I feel bad for the ordinary Arab Palestinians.  They are victims of terrible decisions made by past and present Arab leaders.

Yes, the Jews immigrated in large numbers to establish a country in Palestine.  They (Jewish leaders) accepted the various offers to divide the land.  They accepted the idea of living peacefully with all Palestinians.  The proof is the successful multicultural society of today's Israel.  Imagine if Arab Palestinians had done the same.

[carepov]

22 hours ago, marcus said:

Somehow, I don't think you really believe that.

Unless you are ignorant to what is happening inside Israel and what many in Arab countries are able to do.

Any idea how Christians are treated by Zionists?

If you need help understanding it better, here is more information on the treatment of Christians by Israel:
 

 

Nice attempt to deflect.

All reasonable people (including Jewish leaders in the reports) agree that this behavior by a fringe minority is unacceptable and actions were to be taken to stop it.

Bsck to my point:

There are many progressive Arab-Israelis, living good lives, easy to find on Google.  Where else in the middle east can we see significant numbers of progressive Arabs?

[eyeball]

3 hours ago, carepov said:

Yes, your documentary (Qatari propaganda) contradicts your claim: Jews were not welcomed by Arabs in Palestine. 

Not after they drove 700000 Palestinians out of their home no. What if it was you being driven out? In any case the documentary was produced to counter the propaganda that said Palestine was an empty land where nothing was happening.

3 hours ago, carepov said:

I love how they explained the 1948 war:

To paraphrase: The Zionists declared independence then forced 700,000 Palestinians from their homes.

No mention of the genocidal attacks by multiple Arab armies.hg

Genocidal attacks? They seem a lot more defensive in nature given they were being forced to absorb 700000 refugees violently thrown out of their homes.

3 hours ago, carepov said:

Yes, the Jews immigrated in large numbers to establish a country in Palestine.  They (Jewish leaders) accepted the various offers to divide the land.  They accepted the idea of living peacefully with all Palestinians.  The proof is the successful multicultural society of today's Israel.  Imagine if Arab Palestinians had done the same.

Except the Deir Yassin massacre proves Zionist were not willing to divide the land or live peacefully with all Palestinians. This massacre hastened their expulsion and had a lot more to do with causing Arab countries to intervene than Israel's declaration of Independence. Deir Yassin ensured the writing was on the wall a good 5 weeks before the declaration of Independence.

[eyeball]

4 hours ago, carepov said:

I feel bad for the ordinary Arab Palestinians.  They are victims of terrible decisions made by past and present Arab leaders.

They're also the victims of the utter indifference we had for both Palestinians and Jewish refugees. Don't forget we sent a boatload of them back to Hitler ourselves.

Forcing these two peoples together the way we did was one of the greatest acts of geopolitical vandalism in modern history. I really feel sorry for everyone we helped throw into a forever war.   We have a lot to atone for.

[carepov]

29 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Not after they drove 700000 Palestinians out of their home no. What if it was you being driven out? In any case the documentary was produced to counter the propaganda that said Palestine was an empty land where nothing was happening.

Please check your time-line.  We were talking about the 1920-30s now you are referring to 1948.

Relative to what it is today, Palestine was mostly empty and insignificant under ottoman rule.

[carepov]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

They're also the victims of the utter indifference we had for both Palestinians and Jewish refugees. Don't forget we sent a boatload of them back to Hitler ourselves.

Forcing these two peoples together the way we did was one of the greatest acts of geopolitical vandalism in modern history. I really feel sorry for everyone we helped throw into a forever war.   We have a lot to atone for.

Of the literally hundreds of millions of deaths and injustices around the world, many of them over 100x worse in the last 100 years, why are you so fixated on this issue?

Is it not condescending to the Palestinians to claim that outsiders forced them into a forever war?  Do they not have agency?

Remember the 160,000 Arabs that stayed in Israel in 1948 have now grown and prospered into 2 million.

[eyeball]

5 hours ago, carepov said:

Please check your time-line.  We were talking about the 1920-30s now you are referring to 1948.

You brought up the expulsion of 700000 Palestinians...1948 right?

There was a war between Zionist terror groups who attacked first, and the Palestinians. They drove the British out and attached Deir Yassin before driving 700000 refugees out of presumably empty land.

5 hours ago, carepov said:

Relative to what it is today, Palestine was mostly empty and insignificant under ottoman rule.

That sounds like the sort of propaganda associated with ethnic cleansing aka genocide in some circles. You brought the term up first btw.

5 hours ago, carepov said:

Remember the 160,000 Arabs that stayed in Israel in 1948 have now grown and prospered into 2 million.

I thought the place was mostly empty? Between 160000 and the other 700000 we're getting pretty close to million. That doesn't sound very empty to me.

It often sounds like it really sucks to be a Palestinian living in Israel actually.

Edited November 28, 2025 by eyeball

[John Stone]

On 11/25/2025 at 5:54 PM, eyeball said:

Progressive and other ordinary Palestinians did. Palestine was a destination for immigrants from many places for that reason as well as the work.

Did you watch the documentary?

dude, so-called Palestinians did NOT welcome Zionists from Europe or anywhere else , into the British Mandate territory. 

El Jazeera??

El Pravda!