trade sick, disabled for working illegals

[injusticebuster]

I read that working illegally on construction site pays more than $600 bi-weekly in taxes which is twice as much as my disability.

If government allows to trade this productive person for my person that he can stay and I go somewhere I do not know where because with my medical conditions no country would have taken me it would benefit Canada, Ontario and Toronto.

Ontario government can arrange for a state assisted suicide then they have my problem solved.

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[Kindred]

Interesting that no one responded to this post - the plight of the disabled in Canada is horrendous and should not be ignored. I challenge all of you to do the following quiz.

a. Disability pensions in Canada are in the amount of :

500.00 - 700.00 per month

800.00 - 10000.00 per month

1000.00 - 1500.00 per month

based on a persons income before becoming disabled

provide additional financial benefit for dependents

Pick the answers that are correct

b. True or false? The Government pays for disabled peoples medical costs.

The Government pays for therapy for disabled persons.

The Government pays for prescriptions and other expenses for disabled persons.

The Government provides housing supplements for disabled persons.

The Government provides home care for disabled persons.

Disabled people are forced to live in extreme povery in Canada.

People are disabled because they are bad people and did something stupid.

The Government provides education and job training for disabled workers in Canada.

I cant believe this post was ignored by everyone here.

[Charles Anthony]

Please educate us!

[geoffrey]

Depends on the province is the answer. Disabled people in Alberta, if you can believe it, get more money than any other province through our AISH program. Now, you've got to be really disabled to get the money, but it's pretty decent for doing next to nothing. Find info here: http://www3.gov.ab.ca/hre/isp/index.asp.

Our welfare is based around a program called Alberta Works. Which is different than most other places, and it does indeed work. It's all based around getting people back into jobs. If your injured, and it prevents you from working, you get first in line for surgery. It's truly brilliant.

As well, something disturbing seen here, is as our labour market tightens and wages skyrocket here, disability payouts have decreased... in numbers, not money. Less people collect, meaning obviously people abuse the system.

I see lots of abled bodied people downtown Calgary on my walk to work from the C-Train, sitting on the corner, buming change. Most of these people likely recieve assistance. I chatted with one guy who lost a leg a few years back in an industrial accident, and said he could never work again, so he needed AISH and my money apparently to afford a squalor appartment with some bread to eat sort of deal. I was stunned. Does every job require two strong legs? Surely it doesn't.

People in general are stubborn and nearly every disabled person sets their own bounds on their potential for future success. There are clearly cases of people that can't work whatsoever, I'd limit this to people that are quadriplegics and have severe mental retardation. Otherwise, there is a job out there that you can work.

So if you are truly disabled, you can look at one legged man at 8th Street and 7th Ave and tell him that he's mooching off you too. There isn't many completely disabled to the point where they can't work at all people in Canada, so if your one of them, I'd be a little ticked at these people that are just stubborn and eat up all your funding.

There are entry level jobs that allow you to sit all day, stand all day, view close up objects, view far away jobs, don't require people skills, only require people skills, ect. ect.. I'm sure there is a job you can do.

[Kindred]

OMG almost $13,000.00 a year for a family of five ! Where do they spend all that money? Do you live at home with your parents that you dont seem to know what the cost of supporting a family is?

WOW Alberta has a surgery procedure that fixes all the disabled people - have you shared this news with Rick Hansen? The Nobel Prize people should hear about this.

As well, something disturbing seen here, is as our labour market tightens and wages skyrocket here, disability payouts have decreased... in numbers, not money. Less people collect, meaning obviously people abuse the system.

Cutting people off the system doesnt mean they went to work, maybe they moved, or commited suicide ? Lets see if I understand this, the Govt kicks a whole bunch of people off welfare and then says the number of disabled persons collecting disability welfare benefits has gone down ... yup that makes sense all right.

Its all so clear now, able bodied working people who have a good lifestyle and a good income just decide one day to give it all up and pretend to be disabled and force their children into poverty, lose their homes, their savings, their self respect and dignity and live like kings on approx $13,000.00 a year -

You're 12 years old right? If there is a God someday you will find yourself disabled and then you will be able to understand the ignorance of your comments

[Live From China]

My God, geoffrey, your sense of "logic" is so convoluted it scares me! Your post is nothing more than thinly veiled "redneck politics." No wonder Canada is becoming such a hard place to live. No wonder the disabled are becoming more and more marginalized.

but it's pretty decent for doing next to nothing

There is definite bitterness and hostility in your words. To imply that the disabled are "doing nothing" is an insult. In many cases, they don't have a choice. I doubt there is a disabled person alive who chose their lot. Your attitude is also very condescending. And pathetic!

If your injured, and it prevents you from working, you get first in line for surgery. It's truly brilliant.

There can be a difference between injured and disabled. And just because a person goes into surgery, will s/he miraculously "get better"? Recovery could take years. Furthermore, just because they appear able-bodied doesn't mean they are. Many disabled people face constant, debilitating pain. This pain definitely rules out any sort of physical job, and yet they can neither stand nor sit for long periods. This means they cannot do what many would consider an "easy job."

Less people collect, meaning obviously people abuse the system.

This comment really irks me because it implies that when a person's disability is cut off, they definitely were defrauding the system. Therefore, using this redneck "logic", a person who can no longer collect money due to the narrowing parameters that define a disability, was never really disabled in the first place, and thus were defrauding the system. If that is true, geoffrey, why don't we just take them to court and then put them in jail? Would that make you happy? This type of system is definitely bureaucracy at its worst. What really astounds me is that many people cannot see that this is just a blatant attempt to save money, regardless of the human cost.

Does every job require two strong legs?

You have really failed to look at this from another perspective: their is a definitely prejudice against the disabled. We love to think of Canada as a truly humanitarian and enlightened country. When it comes to the disabled, it is a harsh and cruel place. It is hard enough for a young, able-bodied person to get a job in this country. Employers do not always want a disabled person on staff. Factor in age, and your chances are even less.

I see lots of abled bodied people downtown Calgary

You are obviously a medical expert with X-ray vision.

So if you are truly disabled, you can look at one legged man at 8th Street and 7th Ave and tell him that he's mooching off you too. There isn't many completely disabled to the point where they can't work at all people in Canada, so if your one of them, I'd be a little ticked at these people that are just stubborn and eat up all your funding.

Holy whatever! I can just feel the anger and bitterness oozing out of your words. In pretending to support those who are "truly disabled", you really regard all disabled people with suspicion. Wow, I hope you never get into a position of real power. But then maybe you already are, which is even scarier!

There are entry level jobs that allow you to sit all day, stand all day, view close up objects, view far away jobs, don't require people skills, only require people skills, ect. ect.. I'm sure there is a job you can do.

This is just so pat and simplistic! Everyone has a slot to fill, and must contribute. If you don't then you are scamming the system. In reality, this is just self-righteous twaddle!

[Live From China]

Please educate us!

Why don't you re-read Kindred's post. S/he just did!

[injusticebuster]

I want to work but cannot find job without accommodation. Every time I asked for accommodation I was fired. Further more, I cannot pass job interviews because there are no employers with human face. I have a knowledge and I can contribute.

Unfortunately my own personal experience is very traumatic i.e. just like 60 years ago in Auschwitz either automatic termination when I asked for accommodation because of medical conditions or harrasment and intimidation to quit right away or reprisals like increased workload and blame for somebody's else mistakes.

I have been living with bipolar for many years and have been marginalized and cannot work without being accommodated because the Ontario Human Rights Commission which itself is responsible for enforcing this right is the biggest violator itself and failed to accommodate me and has been violating my equality rights with offensive to human dignity insensivity and doublestandard.

I lost my job numerous times, had to change careers 4 times only because I was seeking to enforce my rights pursuant to the Ontario Human Rights Code and the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

I have been blacklisted from workforce by the Ontario Labour Relations Board's Vice-Chair who in discriminatory and ignorant manner ridiculed medical evidence that I did not have to sleep for few days during my mania period and refused to look at into poison work environment and termination as a reprisal for enforcing my rights. The other arbotrator told me I had to put more hours without pay to keep jobs if I cannot perform 100% because of depression.

This crusade of marginalization and devaluation is orchestrated by the Ontario Human Rights Commission which contrary to its own policy failed to accommodate me when I was suicidal and could die any minute and wanted me to meet the strict deadlines. The Commission did not call me for interviews on numerous occasions contrary to its policy and refused to accept my complaints and ignored all evidence and allowed my witnesses to be threatened, intimidated, harassed and eventually fired.

Even Bill Wilkerson from the Global Business and Economic Roundtable on Addiction and Mental Health behaves like an insensitive hypocrite who initially undertook in writing to inquire into my case and after talking to Ontario Human Rights Commission's Chief Commissioner Keith North failed to return my calls. Would he had given up so easily had Michael Wilson's son or Margaret Trudeau had been treated in such a untermenchen Nazi like manner?

Some people say you can judge a society by how it treats its weakest members.

[injusticebuster]

When I was young and healthy I was a conservative but now when I am sick and unable to work supported by my wife I know from my personal experience that when someone gets sick he or she gets automatically fired by fellow conservatives the right's opressive agenda that "ARBEIT MACHT FREI" means "WORK BRINGS FREEDOM" or those who do not work do not eat or if someone does not work does not sleep is inhuman and opressive.

[injusticebuster]

Geoffrey

Would you hire somebody like me?

I have excellent knowledge of human and labour rights, history of standing up, almost 20 years of experience from insurance and finacial industries, university education and few professional designations.

But there is a little problem ... I am suffering from mental and physical difficulties.

[Kindred]

You hit the nail on the head, people wont hire you. Despite all the lip service about equality and hiring diabled workers, companies will NOT hire them - oh they will hire them, but if they need any special accomodation they fire them.

The thought process is {b}"we will hire a disabled worked as long as they can work as long as and as hard as, and do the same work a fully able bodied person can do, and as long as they require no acoomodation or special consideration on our part[/b]."

An employer cannot ask about race, sexual orientation or race, but they CAN and DO ask "Do you have any physical or mental condition that will affect your ability to perform to our expectations?"

If you say "yes" you are out the door ....... end of interview.

Take the case of a person who is in a work accident, he/she is left with a permanent upper body disability that limits his/her ability to perform repetitive arm movements for an extended period of time, they suffer from a chronic pain condition, and chronic fatigue as a result of the accident.

WCB says this person CAN work as long as they dont have to sit for extended periods of time, doesnt have to stand, doesnt have to do any lifting, can take frequent breaks, rest when they need to, and can take off work for short periods of recovery when necessary, when the pain becomes debilitating.

And as long as an employer will accomodate their needs with an ergonomic chair and adjustments to a computer, they should be able to keyboard for up to an hour at a time without needing a break -

He/she has an advanced education, so the Government will NOT provide education or training for him/her........

He/she has gotten the degrees, worked all his/her life, owns a home, had a pension plan, RRSPs and investments, did volunteer work in his/her spare time, has two children to put through college, a car, and a mortgage ...

IF this injured worked is female, she can no longer do all the housework and childcare, never mind work AND do housework and childcare ......... But there is no assistance available or given to this person. She is on her own.

Within a year the RRSPs are gone, the investments are gone, the college fund is gone and the bank is foreclosing on the house .

WCB and Social Services says she can work. She cant even carry her own groceries into the house, do the vacuuming, or walk two blocks, but she can work AND raise two children and do all the attendant housework AND childcare and maintain her home.

What was her crime? She worked everyday, and went to work one day and had an accident due to employer negligence that left her permanently disabled ...and the Government and people like our uneducated friend Geoffrey say "$11,000.00 a year is more than enough for her and her kids to live on, who does she think she is? Goddamn free loaders ...." The problem is she cant even get the $11,000.00 a year!

Disabled women in Canada are forced to become "domestic prostitutes" in order to have a place to live and something to eat ....... the divorce rate for disabled women is almost ten times that of disabled men ... so the only choice they have is to find a man to support them and give them a place to live ... and the statistics on abuse of these women is horrendous ........

Welcome to Canada ....... we dont give a sh*t about our poor, our disabled or our starving children ...the Government doesnt care and the majority of Canadians dont care, because it isnt happening to them.

[Live From China]

OK, geoffrey, did you read Kindred's post?

Please do, and let it really sink in. Forget the platitudes, and face the reality!

[geoffrey]

An employer cannot ask about race, sexual orientation or race, but they CAN and DO ask "Do you have any physical or mental condition that will affect your ability to perform to our expectations?"

If you say "yes" you are out the door ....... end of interview.

Affect the ability to do the job is the key point. If you can't do the bloody job, why the heck are you applying? Why do you expect someone to subsidize you out of their own pocket and hire an inferior person for the job? If you as good as everyone else, they'll hire you, if not, they won't, straight forward. Pick another job, there are lots of jobs out there today that anyone can do (besides real disabled people).

Take the case of a person who is in a work accident, he/she is left with a permanent upper body disability that limits his/her ability to perform repetitive arm movements for an extended period of time, they suffer from a chronic pain condition, and chronic fatigue as a result of the accident.

WCB says this person CAN work as long as they dont have to sit for extended periods of time, doesnt have to stand, doesnt have to do any lifting, can take frequent breaks, rest when they need to, and can take off work for short periods of recovery when necessary, when the pain becomes debilitating.

And as long as an employer will accomodate their needs with an ergonomic chair and adjustments to a computer, they should be able to keyboard for up to an hour at a time without needing a break -

He/she has an advanced education, so the Government will NOT provide education or training for him/her........

He/she has gotten the degrees, worked all his/her life, owns a home, had a pension plan, RRSPs and investments, did volunteer work in his/her spare time, has two children to put through college, a car, and a mortgage ...

IF this injured worked is female, she can no longer do all the housework and childcare, never mind work AND do housework and childcare ......... But there is no assistance available or given to this person. She is on her own.

Within a year the RRSPs are gone, the investments are gone, the college fund is gone and the bank is foreclosing on the house .

WCB and Social Services says she can work. She cant even carry her own groceries into the house, do the vacuuming, or walk two blocks, but she can work AND raise two children and do all the attendant housework AND childcare and maintain her home.

What was her crime? She worked everyday, and went to work one day and had an accident due to employer negligence that left her permanently disabled ...and the Government and people like our uneducated friend Geoffrey say "$11,000.00 a year is more than enough for her and her kids to live on, who does she think she is? Goddamn free loaders ...." The problem is she cant even get the $11,000.00 a year!

Disabled women in Canada are forced to become "domestic prostitutes" in order to have a place to live and something to eat ....... the divorce rate for disabled women is almost ten times that of disabled men ... so the only choice they have is to find a man to support them and give them a place to live ... and the statistics on abuse of these women is horrendous ........

Welcome to Canada ....... we dont give a sh*t about our poor, our disabled or our starving children ...the Government doesnt care and the majority of Canadians dont care, because it isnt happening to them.

Ok, if they actually can't do anything fine. I have a relative that actually can't do anything due to a botched spinal surgery.

But I know this one example I gave, this guy just sits out on the street all day, asking for money. He could easily be a Wal-Mart greeter or something along those lines. Doesn't pay good, but that's beyond my concern, it gives him the ability to make something of himself and be self-sustaining to a reasonable extent. Most of these panhanlders are capable of doing something with themselves if they were cut off from disability.

I'd say 90% of people that claim disabilities can work. Our bi-polar friend in this post can work, he just needs to find a job out there that's suited to his disability, or make a job himself.

You claim that all these people are injured by employer negligence. Well, if that's true, they've got a nice big settlement sitting for them. WCB rehabilitates and covers workplace injuries. If you weren't insured, then you failed in due dilegence getting the job, and the employer is too blame too!

But really, come on, there are jobs out there that disabled people of different types can do easily. Most without legs and parapilegics could do data entry or something like that. In Calgary, these jobs can pay upwards of $16 an hour, easily enough for people to live off (I live comfortably off slightly more with tution payments on top so I have little sympathy for folks that say it isn't enough, and no, whoever made the comment, I don't live with the 'rents). That's nearly $32k a year full-time, lots of money to 'get-by'.

I don't know much about the female injuries, so I won't comment there. Of course, if they were at home before, they shouldn't get EI or disability or anything because they weren't drawing an income. The government should play a role in funding rehab for them though.

A big concern in the system is our health care's ignoring of rehab. I was very impressed however, at the changes being made. My father recently had a heart attack, and the CHR (Calgary Health Region) funds the entire rehab. Personal training with cardiac nurses, ect. This is a great example of our health system getting people back into working shape and into jobs again. We need more of this to prevent our one legged friend downtown Calgary from sitting there and instead teach him what jobs are available.

None the less, that's not an excuse for people with disabilities not to be working. It's possible in almost all cases to find SOME job out there. We are short 35,000 workers in my city today, they'll hire disabled people if you can do the work, no doubt. It's only if they had the motivation to go out and get it.

[Live From China]

But I know this one example I gave, this guy just sits out on the street all day, asking for money. He could easily be a Wal-Mart greeter or something along those lines.

How do you know?

You claim that all these people are injured by employer negligence. Well, if that's true, they've got a nice big settlement sitting for them.

This is another pat and simplistic statement. Wouldn't it be great if the world and life flowed along so smoothly. It can take forever to get such settlements. And if you don't think people who are truly disabled in a workplace accident can't end up fighting WCB for years, think again.

I'd say 90% of people that claim disabilities can work. Our bi-polar friend in this post can work, he just needs to find a job out there that's suited to his disability, or make a job himself.

This is a completely unfounded statement. And it shows that you have completely missed the point of both Kindred's and injustice's experiences (and mine, of course). But somehow you have transcended all that and "just know." A place for everyone, and everyone in their place!

So somehow you are a medical expert with both X-ray vision and the diagnostic powers only God could possess, or you really are 12.

[Charles Anthony]

And it shows that you have completely missed the point of both Kindred's and injustice's experiences (and mine, of course).

Nobody missed the point of your experiences because there is NO point in anything that you have written. There is NOTHING useful in anything that either of you have written. You identify problems and provide absolutely NO solutions to any of them.

We understand COMPLETELY your experiences and the more you write, the more EVERYBODY understands your motives.

Most people in Canada have either:

- escaped tyrannical regimes

- parents who escaped tyrannical regimes

- close friends and neighbors who have escaped tyrannical regimes

As a result, most people in Canada CAN NOT BE FOOLED by the propaganda and the misinformation and the continued harassment by tyrannical regimes.

[Live From China]

and provide absolutely NO solutions to any of them.

Firstly, I did not realize it was a requirement of this board to provide solutions. Secondly, to this comment I must say, "Au contraire!." I have proposed one solution, i.e., stop with the one-dimensional, beer parlour analysis of the disabled and their difficulties. And finally, the real problem is not the disabled but the people who regard them as fraud artists and malingerers! Thus, the problem is yours, and it since it is, it is your responsibility to come up with a solution.

the more EVERYBODY understands your motives.

Pray tell, what are my motives (other than to combat ignorance such as yours)?

Most people in Canada have either:

- escaped tyrannical regimes

- parents who escaped tyrannical regimes

- close friends and neighbors who have escaped tyrannical regimes

As a result, most people in Canada CAN NOT BE FOOLED by the propaganda and the misinformation and the continued harassment by tyrannical regimes.

This sounds like a paranoid rant to me! I would venture a guess that the three points are simply not true. But more important, what do such comments have to do with the difficulties of the disabled?

[Live From China]

My apologies. For some reason the quote function did not work.

[injusticebuster]

Ontario Human Rights Commission advises everybody that you have to tell employers upfront that someone has medical problems and requires accommodation and since I followed that its advice nobody even considered to call me for a interview.

Even Ontario Human Rights Commission failed to call me on numerous occasions contrary to its policy when its investigates such complaints and onus shifts on the Commission that it did not dsicriminate against me.

In Kanags Premakumar v. Air Canada, the Tribunal stated:

In a case of this nature, the burden of proof is on Mr. Premakumar to establish a prima facie case of discrimination. Once that is done, the burden shifts to the respondent to provide a reasonable explanation for the conduct in issue. A prima facie case is one which covers the allegations made, and which, if believed, is complete and sufficient to justify a verdict in Mr. Premakumar's favour, in the absence of an answer from the respondent.

(1) In the human rights context proof of an affront to the claimant’s dignity is not required because the legislature has already pre-determined which types of distinctions are sufficiently critical to human dignity that they ought to be proscribed. By circumscribing the specific areas of private activity that human rights legislation regulates (i.e., employment, housing and access to public services), the legislature has determined that decisions about where people may live, where they may work, and how they may interact in the marketplace are so fundamental that differential treatment in respect of them is presumed to impact on human dignity. It is worthy of note that, in s.15 jurisprudence, the Supreme Court of Canada has mirrored these value judgments by, for example, emphasizing the importance of employment as “a fundamental aspect of …human dignity.” The difference in the human rights context is that such findings have already been made by the legislature and it is therefore unnecessary (and inappropriate) for tribunals to require human rights complainants to demonstrate an infringement of their dignity as a component of their prima facie case of discrimination.

In reality government, employers pretend not to be like Nazi and by shifting liability instead of killing someone they marginalize a person so he or she commits suicide.

Clean hands policy

[Charles Anthony]

Ontario Human Rights Commission advises everybody that you have to tell employers upfront that someone has medical problems and requires accommodation and since I followed that its advice nobody even considered to call me for a interview.

I believe that you are right. It really sounds like it is very difficult (maybe close to impossible!) for you. You may even think that you are in a no-win situation.

Based on your participation in this forum and your strong will to demonstrate glaring injustice, I believe that if you persist and continue to look for a job YOUR HONESTY will pay off. It may continue to take a long time. However, a potential employer will identify your analytical and technical skills and your honesty. Do not give up.

[FTA Lawyer]

I'm going to jump in...on BOTH sides of this one.

Geoffrey is indeed being awfully general in his comments about how simple it is for disabled people to find work. What he is really against is people who overstate or use their level of diability as an excuse not to work...but he is painting the entire group with that brush. In my experience, I can assure you that it can be incredibly difficult for disabled people to find and keep a job...there just aren't that many employers out there who see fit to make meaningful accomodations...and yes, the legal battles can drag on for years.

That being said, it does not take "x-ray vision" to walk the streets of Calgary and see many people who have no physical affliction whatsoever begging for money from people who actually work to make it...I can understand Geoffrey's frustrations to an extent when you travel down any street in the city and literally 8 out of 10 stores has a sign that says "now hiring".

I can accept that many mental health afflictions are not readily apparent, so I do not suggest that all of these people are freeloaders, but I can assure you that many "panhandlers" choose not to work in a normal job setting.

I recall when the City was imposing increased by-law penalties on "squeegee kids" that it became a media circus for some time. An upstart entrpreneur with a house-building business went to the main area for squeegee kids and offered anyone and everyone a job as a framer / labourer at far more than minimum wage...not one person took him up on his offer. This is not directly related to disabled people, but is analogous.

Now, having ctiticized Geoffrey for his overbroad argunments...it is difficult to comprehend that Geoffrey has been so venomously pounced on for his rhetoric, and yet, injusticebuster is getting whole-hearted unconditional support for his / her position with comments such as:

"just like 60 years ago in Auschwitz..."

"This crusade of marginalization and devaluation is orchestrated by the Ontario Human Rights Commission...'

"In reality government, employers pretend not to be like Nazi and by shifting liability instead of killing someone they marginalize a person so he or she commits suicide.

Clean hands policy"

Just as it is wrong to presume that all disabled people are to be suspected of malingering or attempting to get paid for nothing, it is outrageous to suggest that the people involved in administering disability benefits are attempting to marginalize people until they kill themselves...all with a view to avoiding feeling responsible for not paying out enough benefits!

Take a principled stand for the conditions that disabled people are faced with and I will have no cause to criticize...but keep in line those you are supporting with the same level of scrutiny as those you wish to denounce.

C'mon...the OHRC are akin to Nazis in Auschwitz who focus on how to kill disabled people with a clean conscience?!?!?!? Pathetic.

FTA

[injusticebuster]

What I meant is that everytime I admitted to my employers that I needed accommodation I was terminated

just like prisoners who could not work selected by Dr. Josef Mengeles.

Ontario Human Rights Commission uzurpes monopoly on human rights just like inquistions or communist party. It discriminated by telling me to drop my complaints because I wanted to work and the Commission allocated all resorces to guarante a right to party in bathhouse.

The Supreme Court of Canada has emphasized that the focus of the discrimination “must always remain upon the central question of whether, viewed from the perspective of the claimant, the differential treatment imposed by the legislation has the effect of violating human dignity.” As Justice Iacobucci stated in Law:

“[h]uman dignity within the meaning of the equality guarantee does not relate to

the status or position of an individual in society per se, but rather concerns the manner in which a person legitimately feels when confronted with a particular law.” Writing for the Court, he explained that “human dignity means that an individual or group feels self-respect and self-worth. It is concerned with physical and psychological integrity and empowerment” and with “the realization of personal autonomy and self-determination.”

Law, supra, at paras.53 and 70 (emphasis added); Corbiere v. Canada, [1999] 2 S.C.R.

203 at para.59; M. v. H., supra at para.70; Rodriguez v. B.C., [1993] 3 S.C.R. 519 at

para.61

A human rights Tribunal engaged in a “dignity” analysis should therefore ask whether, viewed from the perspective of the complainant, the differential treatment imposed by the respondent has the effect of violating human dignity. In answering that central question, the Tribunal may consider such factors as (1) whether the respondent’s impugned conduct had an adverse effect on the complainant’s feelings of self-respect and self-worth, (2) whether it impaired the complainant’s physical and psychological integrity and empowerment, or (3) whether it interfered with the complainant’s realization of personal autonomy and self-determination.

Beginning with Andrews v. Law Society of British Columbia, the Court favour substantive equality approach in which a claimant does not need to prove discriminatory intent and the focus is placed on the effect of the discrimination on him or her.

Andrews v. Law Society of British Columbia, [1989] 1 S.C.R. 143 at 164-171

Law v. Canada, supra at paras. 25, 38, and 81

In Andrews, McIntyre J. stated:

Discrimination is unacceptable in a democratic society because it epitomizes the worst

effects of the denial of equality, and discrimination reinforced by law is particularly

repugnant. The worst oppression will result from discriminatory measures having the

force of law

Andrews v. Law Society of British Columbia, supra at 172, per McIntyre J.

[betsy]

What I meant is that everytime I admitted to my employers that I needed accommodation I was terminated

just like prisoners who could not work selected by Dr. Josef Mengeles.

If you get into a job that's unionized, will you still get fired? Won't the Union fight for you?

How about the Human Rights tribunal on this matter?

I'm just asking....

[Kindred]

it is outrageous to suggest that the people involved in administering disability benefits are attempting to marginalize people until they kill themselves...all with a view to avoiding feeling responsible for not paying out enough benefits!

You're kidding right? How much actual research have you done and how many diabled people have you actually spoken to ? Do you think they would admit this to the FTA?

If a person hasn't experience first hand the kind of treatment they receive from WCB, Social Services, and employers when they become disabled you really have no idea how obstructive these agencies and individuals can be.

The statistics prove conclusively a correlation between unemployed workers, disabilities and suicide.

Throw Domestic Abuse and Violence into the mix and you have a greatly increased potential for suicide. WCB will not provide statistics on the number of claimants who commit suicide but other sources suggest this number is significant.

WCB is a force onto its itself which has no governing body or enforcement of its mandate other than by its own Board of Directors.

It is accountable only to itself and chooses to ignore any recommendations which arise from inquiries into its practise and failure to deliver its mandate to the injured and disabled workers.

There have been a number of Royal Commission Inquiries that have resulted in little to no change to the practises of WCB.

Like Social Services, Canada Disability Pensions, WCB automatically rejects at least 50% of the claims filed. With some agencies who are "supposed to" help the disabled the rate of rejection is closer to 65%.

The application and appeals process can be so arduous that it is in fact beyond the abilities of many disabled persons. Some offices of agencies that provide assistance to the disabled do no have handicapped access for their clients, so a disabled person cannot even access the office to begin the process.

Suicide among workers compensation claimants is rarely talked about. Over 30,000 Americans a year committ suicide. Over the last ten years, our firm has successfully litigated four suicide cases which were the result of claimant's original work related injuries. These cases all seem to follow an eerily familiar course: 1) person has severe injury on the job, 2) lives in agonizing pain, 3) loses job, 4) can't live on workers compensation alone, 5) loses home, 6) gets depressed and 7) committs suicide. We, as advocates for injured and disabled workers, must continue to convince courts and insurance carriers that psychological injuries can be just as devastating as physical ones.

from The Disabled Worker Law Blog Turner, Redmond and Rosasco Attorneys at Law

While ostensibly an attempt to bring more thorough analysis and greater consistency to the disability adjudication process, the DAU has proven to be a major barrier for disabled individuals attempting to access ODSP supports. The thrust of its decisions over the past four years have been in the direction of proving ineligibility, rather than fairly and objectively determining whether an applicant meets the definition of disability under the ODSPA. Approximately 50% of applicants who submitted a DDP have been denied by the DAU since the ODSPA was proclaimed in 1998. 24 If we take into consideration those applicants who were referred to the DAU, but who did not ultimately submit an application package, the "effective" denial-rate jumps to 65%..........................

..........Often the test appears to be whether any person with these particular conditions is substantially restricted in his/her activities of daily living, rather than whether this person (with his or her particular life circumstances) is substantially restricted. In addition, contrary to the interpretation suggested in Gray, the DAU often sets a very high threshold for a determination of disability, frequently requiring applicants to have a "severe" disability or be "extremely" impaired..................

...........Rather than be guided by practitioners with relevant expertise who have a close knowledge of the applicant and his/her condition, adjudicators at the DAU frequently offer their own medical assessment, suggesting treatment regimes and presenting medical theories. Considering the limited professional qualifications of many DAU adjudicators, "diagnoses" by adjudicators are particularly troubling..........

.......... The DAU also appears to have a bias toward denying claims that do not provide extensive and often unnecessary specialist reports to supplement those of the primary care physician. These reports create an additional level of complexity for applicants and, in many cases, are of questionable value. They can also be extremely costly, potentially running into the hundreds or even thousands of dollars, putting them out of reach of most unrepresented applicants. Many applicants live in parts of the province where they cannot even access a specialist to complete the reports.........

.............The application and adjudication process undoubtedly has significant impacts on applicants' quality of life. Lower benefit and asset levels to which many applicants are subject while navigating the system, as well as the inherent nature of the adjudication process with its complexity and delays can have extremely negative consequences for the health and well-being of individuals and their families.

Disabled applicants who are not granted ODSP or who are awaiting determination, must often struggle with extremely inadequate incomes. As discussed earlier, a significant proportion of ODSP applicants apply for benefits through the Ontario Works program. During the months in which these applicants are proceeding through the disability determination process, their income is derived from OW. If they are not granted ODSP benefits, they may be forced to remain on OW. A single person in receipt of OW receives a maximum monthly allowance of $520, only 56% of the $930 he/she would receive on ODSP. A family of four receives between $1178 and $1250 of assistance per month under OW, but could receive between $1770 and $2130 under ODSP. 52 While ODSP benefits are by no means adequate, the OW rates on which many disabled individuals must rely are appalling.

The lower OW rates may have serious implications for every aspect of an applicant's life from the ability to purchase goods and services to accommodate the disability, to the ability to find and maintain suitable housing, and the ability to provide the basic necessities for themselves and their families. Particularly vulnerable are single applicants who must find housing, provide the basic necessities, and treat their disability on the meagre $520 monthly allowance as well individuals or families residing in areas where rents are particularly high. ..........

.................Once shelter costs have been covered, there is very little money left for food. The study by the Daily Bread Food Bank demonstrated that disabled food bank users who were not in receipt of ODSP benefits had only about $18.30 per week per person to purchase all other basic necessities. 47% of these users reported going hungry at least once a week; 37% reported that their children go hungry at least once a week; 50% reported they needed more food than provided by the food bank most of the time. A significant number of those surveyed relied on loans and gifts each month to help meet their needs. ......

Denial By Design. The emtire report can be read here http://dawn.thot.net/denial_by_design.html#5a

Boden and Galizzi (2003) ..........study the

relative labor market performance of male and female workers before and after suffering

a disabling work-related injury. They found that although women and men exhibit

similar earnings losses in the quarter after they are injured, women tend to fare worse

than men in the years following the injury. Although male earnings exhibit a modest

recovery during this period, female earnings recover more slowly, which the authors

take as being consistent with discriminatory behavior against women...................

..................men who return to their pre-injury employer report minor wage losses

of just over 1 percent on average, but workers who do not return to their pre-injury

employers report wage losses of approximately 25 percent.

Clearly workers who have unions to support them fare much better then non-union employees.

Results. After 3 years of follow-up, unemployed men were a little over twice as likely to commit suicide as their employed counterparts. Among men, the lower the socio-economic status, the higher the suicide risk. Among women, in each year of follow-up, the unemployed had a much higher suicide risk than the employed. After 9 years of follow-up unemployed women were over three times more likely to kill themselves than their employed counterparts.

Conclusions. Unemployment is strongly related to suicide, but this relationship is more enduring and stronger among women. For men, the unemployment effect is stronger at earlier years of follow-up. In women, unemployment increases the risk of suicide regardless of the number of follow-up years. The finding with regard to women disconfirms earlier research reports suggesting that unemployment affects suicide only in men.

Cambridge Journals on Line Psychological Medicine

I rest my case, suicide among unemployed and/or disabled workers who are unable to return to work or to the same work, or same rate of pay is significant and cannot be ignored.

[injusticebuster]

Union will fight for you.

Oherwise, if someone is defenceless and cannot afford a lawyer, they are kicking you contrary to Judge Ron Fratkin statement: "In Canada, we don't kick people when they're down. What he has [already] gone through is enough… As I say, the public, at least in Canada, I think, has always lived by the sort of guiding principle, you don't kick somebody when they're down”.R. v. Robinson, 2000 BCCA 75

The Ontario Human Rights Commission uzurpes a discretion to refer a complaint to the Tribunal and it censorships evidence, facts. The investigator told me to drop my case because "the Commission does not like that type of cases".

There is evidence and witnesses but it does not care. It failed to accommodate when I could die any minute and wanted me to comply with 15 day strict deadline it knew I was unable to meet because I was too sick.

.

[Kindred]

When a person has lost their dignity, their self respect and respect of their family, friends, and peers, their independence, the ability to provide for themselves and their families, and their future what else have they got lose? Or better phrased, what have they got to live for?

They have also lost the activities they used to enjoy. They either cant afford them or they can no longer participate due to physcial limitations.

Everyday is the same, many dread going to bed because they have to wake up and face it all again.

They get out of bed, and sit by their windows - watching the rest of the world go past them -- watch people going off to work, interacting, planning vacations, buying homes, building for retirement, sending their children off to college, mowing the lawn -

Friends dont call them because they have nothing to say of any interest, they have become boring and repititious. They dont go out when asked because they cant afford to. They become socially isolated.

guy a "Hi George, hows it going? What'd you do today?Whats new"?

guy b "I got up about 10 AM, had a hard time sleeping, brushed my teeth, had a coffee and watched TV all day - nothing new, nothing ever changes ----"

guy a "Sounds good George, see ya around buddy ........."

Thats how it plays out ........... BORING - you bet it is.

The disabled are so marginalized from the rest of the world that they are living in glass cages, they can SEE and HEAR the rest of the world but they dont have access to it.

So they sit and watch while everyday that ticks past makes them that much older, discouraged, depressed and unemployable - like prisoners in solitary confinement.

They dont want to be funneled into "subsidized housing" where they live side by side with substance abusers and others who have chosen poverty as a way of life. There is no dignity in that. Its a killer for pride and their dignity.

They dont want to and shouldnt have to grovel and beg and be humiliated by Social Workers and WCB. These agency people are not adverse to coming staight out and saying "In my opinion you are just lazy and you dont care what you are putting your family through, get off your lazy butt and find a job."

People with disablities and injured/disabled workers are only asking for a minimum income that would enable them to hang onto some dignity and independence. They arent asking for a lot.

Yes there are those who try to abuse the system, but because there are hypochondriacs and people who go to the ER just for attention, should we close out ERs to everyone? Deny services to people who legitimately need the services? Assume all people are flakes and have a universal policy of treating them like crap?

I think not. It is IMO Canada's greatest shame. NDP, Liberal, Conservative, no one gives a sh*t and nothing ever changes, except the Liberals decided to make it even harder on disabled people and punish them more the "crime of being disabled".

injusticebuster I wish I had some answers but I dont. A few jobs give you room to be "dishonest" about your disabilities and pretend you are out seeing clients when you are actually at home screaming ... advertising is one of them, other than that I have NO ideas. And sooner or later you would probably "get caught" "goofing off" (being facetious) instead of working ......... sorry