Canada's Largest Union Votes to Boycott Israel

[Argus]

...You keep referring to Israel as oppressors-this again is a typically selective perspective and one which sees right and wrong and a good guy...

Oppression? Tell that to innocent civilians who simply want to be left alone and live in peace but have to live with people blowing up bombs in front of their faces. Of course you sitting on your safe cushy self-righteous seat have never been to Israel and had limbs and stomach matter explode all over your face.

Funny how selective perspective works.

---

Death toll for 2000-2005

Again, what about Palistinian suicide bomber who walk into a crowded market and blow themselves up with the sole purpose of killing as many innocent civilians as possible. Give your head a shake and wake up. From what I have read in most cases it is Israelis are simply defending themselves from a bunch of terrrorists who's only goal in life is the complete anihilation of Israel. Hamas and Iran, have a stated goal of denying Israel's right to exist. If I were a member of CUPE I would be actively working towards decertification of my particular Local. I'm quite sure this measure does not represent the wishes of the vast majority of CUPE.

Look at the numbers I posted and tell me who is defending themselves. And on a personal note, I’m proud to be a CUPE member.

So you're saying that the way we should identify the innocent party is by figuring out who suffers the most casualties? Have I pretty much got the gist of your political logic?

So in WW2, where Germany lost almost 10% of its population - they were the innocent party, while Canada, which only lost .3% and the US, which only lost .4% were the evil agressor nations. Interesting. I never knew that. Those poor Nazis. Maybe Stephan Harper and the House should apologise to them when they're aplogising to the Chinese.

And if I were required to be a member of CUPE I'd find my closest rep and spill my coffee on him.

[August1991]

Death toll for 2000-2005

Is this some kind of weird Leftist body count competition to see who can be the most oppressed, victimized?

I generally consider the Palestinian leadership to be incompetent. They certainly seem willing to sacrifice other people's lives for their own ambitions.

Also, it's noteworthy that an Israeli organization tabulates these deaths.

(Good link, Lost & Controlled.)

[Darth Buddha]

Death toll for 2000-2005

Is this some kind of weird Leftist body count competition to see who can be the most oppressed, victimized?

Body count isn't leftist or rightist.

Body count is a cold hard statistic.

Claiming that they are "rightist" or "leftist" is sheer nuttery.

Seriously, if you've been to the West Bank, you know it's a hole where folks are short due to malnutrition, a place without hope, in a land that was SEIZED militarily. On the flip side, Israel has crazy security for good reason.

Terrorism matters, but body count does matter too. So too does excessive "collateral damage." Blowing up an apartment building with thirty or more people just to get one terrorist seems uncivilized because it is. The Israelis are in many ways guilty of putting a conquered people in a concentration camp (in the true meaning of the word, as invented by the Brits in South Africa). Doesn't wash the terrorists hands, doesn't mean carte blanche for Hamas, but it does mean the Israelis have dirty hands too.

So long as bystanders are killed at such extreme rates (by both sides) boycotting BOTH Israel AND the Hamas lead Palestinian government might not be such a bad idea. They'd settle things pretty quickly, or face economic calamity.

[lost&outofcontrol]

Is this some kind of weird Leftist body count competition to see who can be the most oppressed, victimized?

I generally consider the Palestinian leadership to be incompetent. They certainly seem willing to sacrifice other people's lives for their own ambitions.

Also, it's noteworthy that an Israeli organization tabulates these deaths.

(Good link, Lost & Controlled.)

I posted these numbers to disprove the idea held by certain posters that Israel is innocent and only defending itself. Like you said, these numbers are tabulated by an Israeli organization and they do not include Palestinian injuries or deaths that go unreported in hospitals. Crimes are committed on both sides and the idea that Israel is only defending itself is a fallacy. One must remember Patrice Gueniffey definition of terrorism: A strategy of instituting a quantity of violence of variable intensity having the goal of provoking the greatest amount of terror judge necessary to accomplish the objective which is to communicate a message for which the terrorist believe all other method has failed.(I hope that was accurate since I translated it from French)

As a side note, I strongly urge anyone to read Chomsky's & Herman's "The Washington Connection and third world fascism"(unless you are in the United States because it was basically banned for over twenty years) for a greater insight into use the use of state terror.

[Argus]

Death toll for 2000-2005

Is this some kind of weird Leftist body count competition to see who can be the most oppressed, victimized?

Body count isn't leftist or rightist.

Body count is a cold hard statistic.

Claiming that they are "rightist" or "leftist" is sheer nuttery.

Seriously, if you've been to the West Bank, you know it's a hole where folks are short due to malnutrition, a place without hope,

And it's worse than Yemen? It's worse than Sudan? It's worse than just about any African country?

in a land that was SEIZED militarily.

After the Arab world launched successive wars which failed.

On the flip side, Israel has crazy security for good reason.

Yah think?

Terrorism matters, but body count does matter too.

Why? How? If bad people attack good people, but the bad people are misfits who are poorly organized and equipped, and they lose badly, why do you think we should blame the good people for winning?

So too does excessive "collateral damage." Blowing up an apartment building with thirty or more people just to get one terrorist seems uncivilized because it is.

Maybe, maybe not. Depends on who else is in the building, depends on how many might die if the terrorist isn't killed, depends on alternatives.

The Israelis are in many ways guilty of putting a conquered people in a concentration camp (in the true meaning of the word, as invented by the Brits in South Africa).

How? Did they round people up and put them into these camps? Do they force them to stay there? If all the Palestinians decided to march to Egypt, Jordan and Syria would the Israelis stop them?

So long as bystanders are killed at such extreme rates (by both sides) boycotting BOTH Israel AND the Hamas lead Palestinian government might not be such a bad idea. They'd settle things pretty quickly, or face economic calamity.

But C.U.P.E. is not calling for a boycott of Hamas. C.U.P.E. LIKES Hamas. And the Palestinian terrorists don't kill "bystanders" incidental to their military attacks. They kill bystanders deliberately, as policy. Do you not think there is a moral difference between sometimes accidentally or even in some cases incidentally killing civilians, and deliberately seeking out civilians and trying to kill as many as possible?

[lost&outofcontrol]

And it's worse than Yemen? It's worse than Sudan? It's worse than just about any African country?

This appears to be the best defense, if not the only defense from the right. We shouldn't condemn Israeli violence because we didn't condemn it somewhere else.

[scribblet]

This was on the news today, so it looks like the Union may have to answer for this.

The union has no business meddling in M.E. affairs, (or any international affairs actually)

http://www.recorder.ca/cp/National/060616/n061623A.html

CUPE locals protest union's call for boycott of Israeli goods

TORONTO (CP) - Four locals of the Canadian Union of Public Employees say they're "outraged" at the union's call for a boycott of Israeli goods.

The union members are holding an information picket today in front of the offices of CUPE's Ontario Division in Toronto.

However, the offices have been closed during the protest.

On May 27, delegates to the CUPE Ontario convention voted unanimously to support an international campaign to boycott goods from the Jewish state.

The resolution states that CUPE Ontario will develop an education campaign about the issue.

Last week, locals representing workers from five Jewish social service agencies sent a letter to CUPE'S national leadership asking them to intervene and rescind the resolution.