betsy Posted May 14, 2006 Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 "Organ donation is a very serious topic in not only the United States but also the rest of the world. Ms. Eaton relates this topic to the United Kingdom where a new system for organ donation is being proposed. In the current system a donor is required to opt-in to donation by carrying a donor card or having a sticker on the license. With the proposed system everyone is a donor unless otherwise going to a legal building and officially opting-out and choosing not to be a donor." http://www.memorial.ecasd.k12.wi.us/Depart...rencritique.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffrey Posted May 14, 2006 Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 Good idea, I can't see why people aren't organ donors. Quote RealRisk.ca - (Latest Post: Prosecutors have no "Skin in the Game") -- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slavik44 Posted May 14, 2006 Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 I would agree, for most of us, we don't really need our bodies once we are dead, so why do we need are organs? I am sure some people have religous/personal reasons for not wantign to donate organs and in that case they can opt out. So yeah I would have no problem with the Government switching over the system. Quote The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. - Ayn Rand --------- http://www.politicalcompass.org/ Economic Left/Right: 4.75 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.54 Last taken: May 23, 2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribblet Posted May 14, 2006 Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 I disagree. Some people have a problem with it for various reasons, they should not be forced to donate if it is against their wishes. I say 'forced' because requiring someone to go to a legal building and oppose it is onerous, and is a form of blackmail. I'm not against organ donation at all and would willingly donate for my family but something bothers me about it otherwise, not sure what. I do know that I have to be dead, nothing ticking or living, no taking my heart if its still beating. Weird - maybe... Quote Hey Ho - Ontario Liberals Have to Go - Fight Wynne - save our province Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted May 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 Well, it is said that some are wary of this new system. That one could find himself in the hospital for some simple reason (like a car accident), and though your chances are good at surviving....instead, you could just find yourself being an unwitting donor, and dead. Corruptions could happen anywhere. I know it sounds like one of those medical thrillers....but.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffrey Posted May 16, 2006 Report Share Posted May 16, 2006 I don't think that's an argument against switching the system Betsy... if you've signed your donor card you'd run the same risk. Quote RealRisk.ca - (Latest Post: Prosecutors have no "Skin in the Game") -- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slavik44 Posted May 16, 2006 Report Share Posted May 16, 2006 I don't think that's an argument against switching the system Betsy... if you've signed your donor card you'd run the same risk. I would say probabley greater, under this current system you would be in a class of thousands, while if the law was switched you would be in a group of millions, more organs to go around means that desperation would not be a factor. Quote The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. - Ayn Rand --------- http://www.politicalcompass.org/ Economic Left/Right: 4.75 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.54 Last taken: May 23, 2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffrey Posted May 17, 2006 Report Share Posted May 17, 2006 I don't think that's an argument against switching the system Betsy... if you've signed your donor card you'd run the same risk. I would say probabley greater, under this current system you would be in a class of thousands, while if the law was switched you would be in a group of millions, more organs to go around means that desperation would not be a factor. Excellent point, I completely agree. I say lets start a petition. Quote RealRisk.ca - (Latest Post: Prosecutors have no "Skin in the Game") -- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leafless Posted May 17, 2006 Report Share Posted May 17, 2006 As far as I'm concerned the state has no right to remove your body parts period without prior permission and on a strictly voluntary basis. The state must come to you for permission and not you go to them to protect your own body parts. I would like to see the reaction would be if legislation was put in place forcing all citizen's to donate blood once a year. Legally speaking I don't think this plan would be viable as it could violate your rights under our Charter of Rights and Freedoms and could also be pursued also concerning other legal areas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffrey Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 I'd support mandatory blood donation. Quote RealRisk.ca - (Latest Post: Prosecutors have no "Skin in the Game") -- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 While a fan of organ donation, there are some people who should not be considered as organ donors (cancer patients, HIV-infected individuals, etc.) yet whose organs might be added to the donor pool through this kind of system. I think the better approach is focusing our efforts on recruiting voluntary organ donors who are in a better position to know (and assess) their safety as a donor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClearWest Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 Wait, you're saying that if this law passes, then the government would assume ownership of our corpses? You guys are actually supporting this? Gosh, they just have to have their hands in everything, don't they? I would oppose this law tooth and nail. Quote A system that robs Peter to pay Paul will always have Paul's support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 I believe it was Peter Kormos, MPP, NDP (Ontario-Niagara Centre) who also introduced a bill in the Ontario Legislative Assembly. Presumed Consent . Personally, I feel that if someone wants to be an organ donor, then they should make the appropriate arrangements to indicate their wishes. The government should not presume that it, nor any medical professional, has the right to extract an organ. Under this proposed legislation, as I understand it, your organs can be extracted unless a family member contests the situation with proof that the deceased did not wish to donate their organs. It isn't difficult to make the arrangements to become an organ donor. For those that wish to donate, by all means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naci Sey Posted May 20, 2006 Report Share Posted May 20, 2006 I've signed the back of my driver's licence for organ donation, am a blood donor and would actively campaign to help others 'see the light'. However, I don't think it's right for government to force organ donation (or blood transfusions), which is what the new law could amount to for some people. The devil is in the details. Just how onerous would the process be for someone to opt out of organ donation? One alternative might be to have the issuing officer for identity cards/driver licences, or the person who accepts the application forms (or whatever), to ask the person to read the back of the card and sign yea or nay. Then the officer witnesses the signature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffrey Posted May 20, 2006 Report Share Posted May 20, 2006 Once your dead, the argument for human rights from an ethical perspective is a tough one. Your 'well-being' isn't really of issue. Harvest the organs and blood and all that. Why not? Save a few lives, and it doesn't hurt anyone. Quote RealRisk.ca - (Latest Post: Prosecutors have no "Skin in the Game") -- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slavik44 Posted May 20, 2006 Report Share Posted May 20, 2006 I think when we use the term forced, we assume the opt out process is bound to be complicated. I don't belive it has to be. To start I would ensure that the system is phased in over two years, give people two years to opt out, after the two years are up, those who have not chosen to opt out are opted in. Opting out doesn't have to be complicated, why not proof of I.D and checking a little box that says, I like my organs I want to keep them after I am dead. This could be done when people visit a family doctor, when people plan ahead andmake funeral arrangements, when people go to get their drivers license, or renew their drivers license, when you fill out a will. You could literaly give people the oppurtunity to opt out every time they are in a situation where proof of I.D is required..."I notice you are buying Alcohol your kidney is probabley useless do you want to opt out of the organ donation program?" Quote The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. - Ayn Rand --------- http://www.politicalcompass.org/ Economic Left/Right: 4.75 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.54 Last taken: May 23, 2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClearWest Posted May 21, 2006 Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 Maybe I should pickle my liver in protest of this new bill. They need to get their hands out of my pocketbook first of all--but now they're claiming my organs after I'm dead?? Gosh, they're like a pack of vultures. I don't care how good their intentions are, they've gotta ask me before they take something that's mine. This law is like enforcing the draft, but the ones that don't want to go don't have to. First of all that doesn't make sense. Second of all, you're going to catch a lot of people who probably didn't want to donate their organs, but they didn't make the prior arrangements with the gov't, so it's too late for them. This law is bad news. The stupid thing is, there's no one who will represent my views for me in the house of parliament. My riding is represented by a socialist who will surely support this bill. Another indication that democracy as we know it isn't a fair way to represent each citizen's wishes. Majority rules isn't rule by the people as Democracy was supposed to be... But that's a different story. The point is, don't pass this law. Quote A system that robs Peter to pay Paul will always have Paul's support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted May 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 I sure would like to think it is still MY body even if I'm dead. There can be pressures or stigma for those who choose to opt out. Kinda like the looks a smoker gets when he lights up at a bus stop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted May 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 I sure would like to think it is still MY body even if I'm dead. There can be pressures or stigma for those who choose to opt out. Kinda like the looks a smoker gets when he lights up at a bus stop. Besides, even if this opens to more organs available....the chances for corruptions and money-making schemes is not lessened. Who gets the most healthy organs....the lifestyles they've had? Vegetarians only? Medical history? Genes of biological parents? Etc.., As a volunteer donor...I would like to be able to say who should get my organs. If I wish to give it to an impoverished person or any particular person(s), will it be honored? If I wish to save my organs in case of future use for any of my family...will that be honored? If I specify that my organs will go to Canadians only....and especially not to any mega-rich dictators who wish to prolong their evil rule....will it be honored or will money and politics talk? This becomes literally a "meat market." This opens another door that makes it easier to lead elsewhere...and you can be sure it will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
margrace Posted May 21, 2006 Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 Just out of curiosity, is there anyone posting on this subject that has had the trauma of having a daughter or son need a transplant in order to live more than a year? Been there, done that, it is not a happy position to be in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted May 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 I don't think that's an argument against switching the system Betsy... if you've signed your donor card you'd run the same risk. I would say probabley greater, under this current system you would be in a class of thousands, while if the law was switched you would be in a group of millions, more organs to go around means that desperation would not be a factor. Just curious...how long can they keep organs? From what I understand, it's not like blood that could be stored for long periods of time, but of course I may be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted May 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 Once your dead, the argument for human rights from an ethical perspective is a tough one. Your 'well-being' isn't really of issue. The question is: are you really, "dead?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted May 21, 2006 Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 I feel things should be left the way they are. It should not be assumed that anyone can take someone's organs. If the government feels it so important to promote organ donation, why not post big large signs, even electronic ones at the MTO offices et al. that reminds people to ask about organ donation. Have a separate desk open and available for those individuals who'd like to make those changes. Personally, I support organ donation. However, I do not support taking something from someone that they did not indicate that they wanted you to take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted May 22, 2006 Report Share Posted May 22, 2006 Once your dead, the argument for human rights from an ethical perspective is a tough one. Your 'well-being' isn't really of issue.Harvest the organs and blood and all that. Why not? Save a few lives, and it doesn't hurt anyone. I don't think it's really a matter of human rights, but society (and the law) recognizes that even the dead have certain post-death rights -- the bequeathing of assets according to the wishes of the deceased being the most prevalent. I don't know what the law is in Canada, but in the US even when someone who dies without a will, the deceased's assets get passed to his or her family through the process of intestate succession; the state doesn't just harvest his or her assets and property for the benefit of the common good. I don't see why someone's physical body should be treated with any less reverence or respect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drea Posted May 22, 2006 Report Share Posted May 22, 2006 I like it. It's a good idea. There are not enough people signed up as organ donors as it is. Those who don't want to donate (whatever the reason) would be more likely to opt out than those who want to donate (as the system is now) are likely to opt in. If you are really concerned about what happens to your body after you are done with it then go ahead and opt out. Me, I'll donate it all then have my remains cremated so I don't take up any "land" as in a burial. The body is dead and rotting, why try to "preserve" it whole in a casket in the ground? Quote ...jealous much? Booga Booga! Hee Hee Hee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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