Afgan or Darfur which one ?

[Army Guy]

What is driving the People of Canada to change thier minds about Afganistan? is it money, death of soldiers, the plan, what ?

I can see why the Liberals are flip flopping, the polls are out, and they have based most of thier decissions on "what the polls say"....That and no leadership.

liberals

And why the is the NDP, now pushing for a withdrawal from Afgan, only to start over in Darfar, Can an NDPer explain to me the reasoning behind it ? what makes Darfar a better option ? What scares the NDP about Afgan ?

NDP

I have several of my young soldiers ask me Does'nt the rest of Canada know what we are accomplishing over here in Afgan ?

And why do we put all this effort and sacrifice into a mission only to have the government change thier minds before the job is completed?

And do they know that the Darfur mission will be just as dangerous if not more ?

[scribblet]

Thats a question I wondered about. Why are people asking the gov't to send in troops to Darfur (without the U.N. even). our troops are just as likely or more likely to be killed there. Why is it acceptable for them to be put in harms way in Darfur but not elsewhere?

As far as taking out the troops before the job is finished, its politics, the opposition will use dead soldeirs as an excuse to get the CPC, even though they sent in the troops originally. They will lay the blame on Harper.

[betsy]

Yes, why would they just want to shift gear now....making all the years of efforts (not to mention lives) for nothing?

Darfur is no better than Afghanistan. Besides, at least with Afghanistan....it is to the best interest of the world that we fight for its democracy. It had been a training base for terrorists under the taliban rule.

Let the UN deal with Darfur. Much as it would seem ideal to be seen as the protector of the worlds....we cannot realistically do it all.

[Argus]

What is driving the People of Canada to change thier minds about Afganistan? is it money, death of soldiers, the plan, what ?

The maudlin and excessive coverage of every casualty, even minor traffic accidents by the media, all of which coverage is anti-war and anti-military, uncertainty about why we're there, and grandstanding and political opportunism by the Liberals and NDP, who constantly play up the American angle so that the majority of idiots probably think we're only there to support the US. Not to mention that the entire mideast struggle is being lumped together in the media as a pointless waste of lives and resources which will accomplish absolutely nothing. Then too, were the years of anti-militaristic government and media propaganda about how noble and peace loving Canadians are, who only go to selflessly keep peace so that the entire world loves, worships and admires us wherever we go. If you took a poll you'd probably find large numbers of Canadians think our 'peacekeepers" should be unarmed because to carry weapons might offend people. - certainly it offends them

And why the is the NDP, now pushing for a withdrawal from Afgan, only to start over in Darfar, Can an NDPer explain to me the reasoning behind it ? what makes Darfar a better option ? What scares the NDP about Afgan ?

There are no Americans in Darfur. Mind, if the Americans launched a mission today and invited us to join next month the NDP would be screaming themselves blue in the face that we stay away. Can you imagine what their reaction would be if we actually went to Darfur and started killing people? They'd go berserk! "This isn't what we wanted! We just wanted you to go there and look sternly at the government and let your self-righteousness be an example to all of the peace and nobility to be had by emulating us!"

[Wilber]

"Let the UN deal with Darfur. Much as it would seem ideal to be seen as the protector of the worlds....we cannot realistically do it all."

A country that doesn't understand violence is sometimes necessary, is not capable of protecting anything.

[theloniusfleabag]

The reason to go to Afghanistan was not to 'free the Afghanis, or make them safe from tyranny or violence', it was to make Americans safe from violence. An idea that has basically failed, due largely to the American's 'imperial hubris'.

Rwanda and Sudan are comparable, Afghanistan is not really the same.

[Slavik44]

The fact remains that we went into Afgahnistan to do a job, and that job is not over. I sincerely belive that if you are going to start something you should finish it, and do a good job at that. Because failing to do so can often come back to haunt you. Unfortunately in the situation in Afgahnistan Canadian troops will die, it is certainly dissapointing, but it is to be expected. I supported going into Afgahnistan when it happened and I will not be so hipocritical now as to turn around and suggest we pull out, simply because someone died and there is a problem somewhere else in the world. there will always be a problem somewhere else, there will always be a situation that demands attention. In fact it is likely there will always be a queue of problems in the world that need to be dealt with. Just look at your own life, on any given day there are a number of things you will need to complete, just because the lawn needs mowed, doesn't meen you should stop paying your bills or doing the dishes.

That being said, attention can still be paid to Sudan and needs to be paid to sudan. Following World War Two, we made a pledge that we would not forget and not allow genocide to happen again, unfortunately it has never stopped. That being said we must find a way to deal with Afgahnistan and Sudan simultanously. We cannot just pull out of one area when a problem arises somewhere else. What kind of message does that send to the person commiting genocide? I will tell you what message that sends.... the world is full of nut jobs, if you wait a while Canada will go deal with some other nut job and let you get back to your murderous rampage. Any Policy Canada choses must be long-suffering founded on the basis of patience and consistency, anything else is just a band-aid on a severed arm and is entirely un-acceptable.

[geoffrey]

We should be both places.

If only Canada had more respect for the 3rd world and supported the greatest humanitarian organizaion in our nation, our military.

[Army Guy]

geoffrey:

We already have a very limited amount of pers (just over 50 pers)already in the Sudan, working as advisors. keep in mind that most of these operations are done by the army, and they are only using 2 depleted brigades to man them, the 1 st from Edmonton and the 2 and from Petawawa ont,

The 5 th brigade in Que is not included, for reasons unknown...

My Webpage

The Darfur conflict is not over, the government in power does not want western forces there, Current African UN forces are assisting the government in routing out rebels, and other organizations. It is not a peace keeping mission but another combat mission.

All this info is available on the web and must be known to our NDP members, which is why i can not figure out why they want to exchange one mission for the other.

If only Canada had more respect for the 3rd world and supported the greatest humanitarian organizaion in our nation, our military.

Canada is doing all it can for the 3 rd world right now, This is another problem and misconception, Canada's military is not a humanitarian organization, it was not designed to, it does not have the training nor the funding to do humanitarian work.

This is one of the major reasons that our military is not properly equiped with equipment design for war, past governments have chosen equipment that is multi purposed, to serve both functions,( peacekeeping and limited warfare) and have chosen not to purchase offensive type wpns, such as heavy battle tanks, APC's, Hvy Arty, attack helo's. It's this type of thinking that puts soldiers lives at risk.

Canadians have to decide what is it they want ? I think Argus got it right when he alluded to most Canadians would perfer our military dress in pink and handing out flowers at the airport. They need to be educated that peace only comes from the use of force, and the willingness to use force to achieve peace. It does not come from handing out teddy bears and chocolate bars.

[PocketRocket]

Afghanistan, IMHO, is a morass.

Russia, with all its might at the time, could not subdue Afghanistan.

Can anyone seriously believe we can get it under control???

While I do agree we are there for the right reasons, and that the USA was as well, now that the Taliban is out, the country needs to learn to get itself under control.

Unfortunately, with the Pashtin tribes as widespread as they are, it is unlikely that ANYONE can get the country sorted out long-term.

As for Darfur, we are seeing all the recurring genocidal madness of recent times being played out yet again.

Eventually, someone will go in there, but for those killed an the meantime, too little too late.

[Army Guy]

Pocketrocket:

Afghanistan, IMHO, is a morass.

What event or problems make you think so.

Russia, with all its might at the time, could not subdue Afghanistan.

Can anyone seriously believe we can get it under control???

It was a different war, in different times, A majority of Afgans want peace want to live a normal life.

While I do agree we are there for the right reasons, and that the USA was as well, now that the Taliban is out, the country needs to learn to get itself under control.

The Taliban is not out, and still are a threat to the new government which is not strong enough to stand on it's own as of yet.

As for Darfur, we are seeing all the recurring genocidal madness of recent times being played out yet again.

Eventually, someone will go in there, but for those killed an the meantime, too little too late

Thats the problem the existing government does not want western troops in thier country, so unless we invade, legally what can we hope to achieve.

[Argus]

As for Darfur, we are seeing all the recurring genocidal madness of recent times being played out yet again.

Eventually, someone will go in there, but for those killed an the meantime, too little too late

Thats the problem the existing government does not want western troops in thier country, so unless we invade, legally what can we hope to achieve.

And the Sudanese can expect the full support of the Arab league. They don't mind people killing Muslims, apparently unless the people doing the killing at Jews.

Or unless the Muslims dying are Black.

Let us go into Sudan and we'll start seeing suicide bombers just like in Afghanistan.