Dryden is in!

[BubberMiley]

I've never voted Liberal in my long, long life, but I don't think I'll be able to resist with Dryden as leader. With Habs fans and Leafs fans combined, he'd get an easy majority. I think he's the most promising potential leader of the 10 who are now in the running. Anybody who can get a law degree while playing goal for the Habs in their glory years can handle the stress and the mental demands of the top job.

[geoffrey]

I've never voted Liberal in my long, long life, but I don't think I'll be able to resist with Dryden as leader. With Habs fans and Leafs fans combined, he'd get an easy majority. I think he's the most promising potential leader of the 10 who are now in the running. Anybody who can get a law degree while playing goal for the Habs in their glory years can handle the stress and the mental demands of the top job.

Dryden will fail. Any Liberal leader that doesn't have massive Alberta appeal will prevent the party from being a national party. It's not even Alberta, Saskatchewan only has 2 Liberals.

If you can't find any values that even just one riding of Albertans agree with, then you can't say you represent Canadians. We are about 13% of the population and nearly 25-27% of national income.

Find an Alberta-appealing candidate and maybe I'll take your word that these guys can be a national party. Otherwise they are an Ontario and immigrant BC party.

Plus the guy is so boring to listen to.

[BubberMiley]

Leaders have formed successful majorities without appealing to the average Albertan. In fact, I think they're more likely to be successful if they don't. You will never find someone who appeals to all regions, so the Libs are better off going for someone who would appeal to the strongest base of population: Ontario and Quebec.

[geoffrey]

Leaders have formed successful majorities without appealing to the average Albertan. In fact, I think they're more likely to be successful if they don't. You will never find someone who appeals to all regions, so the Libs are better off going for someone who would appeal to the strongest base of population: Ontario and Quebec.

Oh absolutely, couldn't agree more. Successful parties appeal to Ontario and Quebec at the expense of the West. Always been that way. Even Mulroney did it, hence the reform movement.

But this just shows that Canada can't function as a nation in its current state. Alberta cannot be governed fairly by a party that's interests end at the Manitoba border. Trudeau was the best example of why Canada is a failed state.

I'm just saying the Liberals will not be a national party until they include Albertans. And that's not happening with Dryden, so the Liberal's won't be a national party under Dryden.

And a regional party should never be given the power to rule Canada. Otherwise we get injustices like the NEP and increased transfers.

[Black Dog]

Dryden will fail. Any Liberal leader that doesn't have massive Alberta appeal will prevent the party from being a national party. It's not even Alberta, Saskatchewan only has 2 Liberals

Like BM said, they don't need Alberta. Indeed, the only way they could appeal to the praries is by becoming the CPC, and what would be the point of that?

Plus the guy is so boring to listen to.

Uh...have you seen who the current PM is? Have you heard him speak?

But this just shows that Canada can't function as a nation in its current state. Alberta cannot be governed fairly by a party that's interests end at the Manitoba border. Trudeau was the best example of why Canada is a failed state.

Your presuppossing that any government that has an eastern base is de facto in oppossition to western interests. That's not necessarily true.

[BubberMiley]

But there isn't such thing as a "national leader" when different regions have such disparate interests. Harper represents Quebeckers or Maritimers even less than Dryden represents Albertans. You seem to think that, just because Alberta votes as a bloc and chooses to be a one-party state, that the rest of the country should go along with them and always elect their kind of government.

[Naci Sey]

I've never voted Liberal in my long, long life, but I don't think I'll be able to resist with Dryden as leader. With Habs fans and Leafs fans combined, he'd get an easy majority. I think he's the most promising potential leader of the 10 who are now in the running. Anybody who can get a law degree while playing goal for the Habs in their glory years can handle the stress and the mental demands of the top job.

Could you give reasons why you favour Dryden, other than his being a hockey legend and studied law while playing pro hockey? I don't see either of those as being politically relevant.

[shoop]

There is the big problem with the Liberals. They can't even be arsed to try and take the time to understand the west.

There is definitely a way to appeal to the West without "becoming the CPC". Looking at the Liberals dismal results in the West it seems like they just don't care. 14 out of 92 seats in 2006? 27 out of 86 seats in the "landslie" Chretien win in 1993.

Appealing to the rest would require effort and hard work. Instead they fall back on simple platitudes that they would have to become the CPC to appeal to the West.

Well, it's your choice, but with no West and no Quebec that means no Liberal government...

Like BM said, they don't need Alberta. Indeed, the only way they could appeal to the praries is by becoming the CPC, and what would be the point of that?

Again, nothing short of completeing the transformation into a right-wing party will give teh Liberals any chance in Alberta. So why bother?

[BubberMiley]

Could you give reasons why you favour Dryden, other than his being a hockey legend and studied law while playing pro hockey? I don't see either of those as being politically relevant.

Because, with his name recognition, he's electable. I think he's the Libs' best chance at forming a majority government again.

[BubberMiley]

I think Albertans sometimes try and make themselves seem like a larger force than they are by referring to themselves as "The West." The rest of us out west have more varied interests and ideologies and prefer a healthy democracy that changes governments every once in a while. By Geoffrey's logic, just because Alberta only ever votes conservative, we can never have a truly national leader who isn't a conservative.

[geoffrey]

But there isn't such thing as a "national leader" when different regions have such disparate interests. Harper represents Quebeckers or Maritimers even less than Dryden represents Albertans. You seem to think that, just because Alberta votes as a bloc and chooses to be a one-party state, that the rest of the country should go along with them and always elect their kind of government.

Actually Harper does represent Quebekers and a small portion of Maritimers. The Liberals represent no Alberta ridings and only two in Saskatchewan. No I think the country should elect a non-involved government that deals only with issues of shared national security and international trade.

There is the big problem with the Liberals. They can't even be arsed to try and take the time to understand the west.

There is definitely a way to appeal to the West without "becoming the CPC". Looking at the Liberals dismal results in the West it seems like they just don't care. 14 out of 92 seats in 2006? 27 out of 86 seats in the "landslie" Chretien win in 1993.

Appealing to the rest would require effort and hard work. Instead they fall back on simple platitudes that they would have to become the CPC to appeal to the West.

Well, it's your choice, but with no West and no Quebec that means no Liberal government...

Like BM said, they don't need Alberta. Indeed, the only way they could appeal to the praries is by becoming the CPC, and what would be the point of that?

Again, nothing short of completeing the transformation into a right-wing party will give teh Liberals any chance in Alberta. So why bother?

There are many left-wing Albertans, they tend to vote NDP or Green. Even these folks see the Liberals really could care less about Alberta ever.

So why wouldn't they take all Alberta's money, and re-distribute it to Liberal friendly ridings in Ontario, Quebec and the Maritimes? Oh wait... they do! It's not like they are going to elect any Alberta MP's anyways.

It's dangerous to have a small province with all the money dominated by a huge, economically depressed population.

[BubberMiley]

It's dangerous to have a small province with all the money dominated by a huge, economically depressed population.

Exactly! That's why we have transfer payments.

[shoop]

At least Chretien tried to appeal to Alberta. He won four seats here in 1993.

That should have been a base to build upon. Alas, it was more politically expedient to dump on Alberta in his first term than to try and grow that base.

Interesting how the biggest majorities in Canadian history are when the Conservatives find a way to appeal to the West and the East.

Maybe because the Liberals will never ever try?

There are many left-wing Albertans, they tend to vote NDP or Green. Even these folks see the Liberals really could care less about Alberta ever.

So why wouldn't they take all Alberta's money, and re-distribute it to Liberal friendly ridings in Ontario, Quebec and the Maritimes? Oh wait... they do! It's not like they are going to elect any Alberta MP's anyways.

It's dangerous to have a small province with all the money dominated by a huge, economically depressed population.

[geoffrey]

It's dangerous to have a small province with all the money dominated by a huge, economically depressed population.

Exactly! That's why we have transfer payments.

A good example of why Alberta gets screwed. We all suffered for years to balance our books, yet the other provinces won't because they'll just ride the good fortunes that have came out of our fiscal disipline in the 90's.

At least Chretien tried to appeal to Alberta. He won four seats here in 1993.

That should have been a base to build upon. Alas, it was more politically expedient to dump on Alberta in his first term than to try and grow that base.

Interesting how the biggest majorities in Canadian history are when the Conservatives find a way to appeal to the West and the East.

Maybe because the Liberals will never ever try?

Four seats? That's just incrediable. All in Edmonton I presume? I don't think we've had a Calgary Liberal since the 1960's or 70's. Maybe it was the Trudeau destroying Calgary for 10 years incident that turned us off?

It's true, those are the biggest majorities, when they can appeal in ELECTIONS. Remember though, after each massive majority, there is fragmentation in the right. We saw it with the complete destruction of the PC's after Mulroney sold us out to Quebec.

They run as pro-west, pro-east, they rule pro-Quebec.

[stignasty]

Maybe it was the Trudeau destroying Calgary for 10 years incident that turned us off?

I assume that you're all familiar with Godwin's law. If not here's the scoop: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

My suggestion for this board is that any invoking of the boogie-man Trudeau be treated the same. Let's call it geoffrey's law.

[Shakeyhands]

Plus the guy is so boring to listen to.

Ummmm... as opposed to???? say.... Harper? Puuhlease.

We'll see how it goes, with this many people having already entered, I'm sure he made damn sure he had the support before putting his neck out.

[geoffrey]

Maybe it was the Trudeau destroying Calgary for 10 years incident that turned us off?

I assume that you're all familiar with Godwin's law. If not here's the scoop: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

My suggestion for this board is that any invoking of the boogie-man Trudeau be treated the same. Let's call it geoffrey's law.

So the NEP didn't hurt Alberta?

I think we should adopt a NAP without notice tomorrow. A National Auto Program. I mean, these cars are getting expensive, and since we produce some in Canada, we should all pay less then the rest of the world!!!

So from now on, all automakers in Ontario will be forced to sell to Canadians at reduced prices, sometimes below cost!! Of course, we won't expect any damage to the Ontario economy, as these auto companies will willingly just bow to Ottawa and not go out of business.

It's not asking too much to think that Auto companies can run at a loss for a few years just to give Canadian's better prices on cars... right?

Same concept, how stupid does it sound when applied to Ontario?

This isn't Godwin's law. This is about the war that Trudeau launched on Alberta and the Eastern minded politicans have been eyeing Alberta with the same greed ever since.

[Black Dog]

There is the big problem with the Liberals. They can't even be arsed to try and take the time to understand the west.

There is definitely a way to appeal to the West without "becoming the CPC". Looking at the Liberals dismal results in the West it seems like they just don't care. 14 out of 92 seats in 2006? 27 out of 86 seats in the "landslie" Chretien win in 1993.

As long as their opponnents drag out the mouldering corpse of PET and the equally fetid carcass of the NEP, the liberals will be optimates non grata in Alberta.

Appealing to the rest would require effort and hard work. Instead they fall back on simple platitudes that they would have to become the CPC to appeal to the West.

Okay: what would that entail?

I assume that you're all familiar with Godwin's law. If not here's the scoop: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

My suggestion for this board is that any invoking of the boogie-man Trudeau be treated the same. Let's call it geoffrey's law.

Naw: let's call it "Teddy's Law" after...well, you know.

g

So the NEP didn't hurt Alberta?

Sure. But it's impossible to assess the damage, given the NEP came around the same time as the big oil bust and global recession.

[shoop]

All the Liberals would have to do would be to say that they realize the NEP and Trudeau were wrong and they recognized provincial authority over natural resources.

Why is that so hard to do?

As long as their opponnents drag out the mouldering corpse of PET and the equally fetid carcass of the NEP, the liberals will be optimates non grata in Alberta.

Sure. But it's impossible to assess the damage, given the NEP came around the same time as the big oil bust and global recession.

[Black Dog]

All the Liberals would have to do would be to say that they realize the NEP and Trudeau were wrong and they recognized provincial authority over natural resources.

Why is that so hard to do?

Because the constiution already gives the provinces that authority? The NEP is history: it's time Alberta moved on.

[shoop]

That authority was in the constitution when the NEP was instituted.

Hmmm, I wonder why Alberta isn't more receptive to the Liberals then?

Your party makes a mistake and you come up with such a sh*tty 'in your face' response.

Odd how people won't vote for someboy who treats them like that. Isn't it?

Because the constiution already gives the provinces that authority? The NEP is history: it's time Alberta moved on.

[Black Dog]

That authority was in the constitution when the NEP was instituted.

Hmmm, I wonder why Alberta isn't more receptive to the Liberals then?

Your party makes a mistake and you come up with such a sh*tty 'in your face' response.

Odd how people won't vote for someboy who treats them like that. Isn't it?

First: the Liberals aren't "my" party. Second: people who bitch about the NEP seem to forget there was a global recession going on at the time which caused oil prices to bottom out. The NEP didn't help, but it wasn't the sole insturment of Alberta's misfortune. Thirdly: if I'm "in your face" it's because, despite Alberta's tremendous good fortune, Albertans still can't get over the NEP. It's like areflex and frankly, as an Albertan, I'm sick of it. The NEP is dead. Trudeau is dead. How long will Alberta hold the Liberals responsible for their past sins?

[shoop]

The extent of the damage caused by the NEP is debatable, but there is no doubt that it hurt Albertans.

Albertans aren't the only groups who hold legitimate grievances for historical wrongs. It took a Conservative government, more than *40 years after the fact* to issue an apology about the Japanese WWII internment camps.

The Chinese head tax is still an issue, an issue the Conservatives will deal with. The Conservative Government is finally dealing with the abuses at residential schools. Do you take fault with any of those groups for holding the government responsible for their past sins?

Why exactly are you *sick* of people having issues with the NEP? It would be smart politics for the Liberals to, as I already said, apologize and move on from the issue.

You asked what it would take to make the Liberals viable in Alberta. I gave you a pretty simple answer and you responded with the rant below. Whether or not you agree with it, that would be a very big first step for making the Liberals a credible alternative out here. Albertan's, like people everywhere, don't like being treated with contempt. Trudeau *always* treated Alberta with contempt. That is why the Liberals need to distance themselves from Trudeau to be viable in Alberta.

An apology would go a long way...

Don't freak out because you don't like the answer.

First: the Liberals aren't "my" party. Second: people who bitch about the NEP seem to forget there was a global recession going on at the time which caused oil prices to bottom out. The NEP didn't help, but it wasn't the sole insturment of Alberta's misfortune. Thirdly: if I'm "in your face" it's because, despite Alberta's tremendous good fortune, Albertans still can't get over the NEP. It's like areflex and frankly, as an Albertan, I'm sick of it. The NEP is dead. Trudeau is dead. How long will Alberta hold the Liberals responsible for their past sins?