Too many humans

[theloniusfleabag]

http://www.cbc.ca/story/science/national/2...f-20060405.html

A biology professor has been targeted by bloggers and talk radio hosts after a newspaper in Texas reported he said the Earth would be better off if most humans were dead.

Is the earth overpopulated? Is it going to be? I would answer yes to both, but with an explanitory note...the Earth could be in way better shape with the same population if our lifestyles were different. Consumerism makes humans act as cancer does, upon the host, earth.

[Riverwind]

Is the earth overpopulated? Is it going to be? I would answer yes to both, but with an explanitory note...the Earth could be in way better shape with the same population if our lifestyles were different. Consumerism makes humans act as cancer does, upon the host, earth.

I have two takes on that:

1) Humans cannot destroy the earth - all humans can do is change the earth's environment is a way that makes it difficult for the same number of humans to continue to live in the same places. Even under the worst 'global warming' scenarios the earth will still be capable of support a large number of humans and other forms of life.

2) Humans act no differently than any other animal - we consume resources until nature cannot sustain us anymore. The only difference is human are able to do it on a global scale. However, mother nature is a simple but effective mechanism to control species that get out of control: mass starvation and disease. So humans are not like a cancer since we cannot kill our host. We are more like a common cold virus which causes discomfort if present in too large a quantity but can and will be reduced to a tolerable number when the earth's 'immune system' kicks in.

[August1991]

Is the earth overpopulated? Is it going to be? I would answer yes to both...

Well thelonious, if you feel strongly enough about this, and to be consistent with your belief, then there's an obvious action you could undertake.

[Leafless]

theloniusfleabag

In response to the article you quoted relating to a biology professor and his thoughts that the world would be better off if most humans were dead is no doubt accurate.

With religion set aside one could argue if this earth was ever meant to support life at all and our species simply evovled by sheer luck from the amoeba stage to the stage where humans think we are supreme concerning most aspects of our existence.

Yes, worldly resources are running in short supply to maintain our existence in the fashion we have developed and are accustomed to.

But with populations increasing so are our distant cousins viruses, constantly changing in order to preserve their form of self survival which is made easier by masses of humans unable or willing to take the necessary precautions relating to all forms of leading sanitary lifestyles to avoid contributing to the mutating of killer viruses.

I think killer viruses are inevitable and disease will probanly contribute to the destruction of mankind thanks to uncontrolled population growth and the lack of resources necessary to control killer diseases.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear August1991,

if you feel strongly enough about this, and to be consistent with your belief, then there's an obvious action you could undertake.

Actually, I think that there would be two equally logical ones, as long as my personal 'faith' isn't involved. Those being, kill as many others as possible, (cull the herd) or kill myself. However, given my belief on the 'meaning of life', it is more consistent to try to spread the message that change is needed, rather than resort to killing.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear Leafless,

Yes, worldly resources are running in short supply to maintain our existence in the fashion we have developed and are accustomed to

Well said, and I agree.

But with populations increasing so are our distant cousins viruses, constantly changing in order to preserve their form of self survival which is made easier by masses of humans unable or willing to take the necessary precautions relating to all forms of leading sanitary lifestyles to avoid contributing to the mutating of killer viruses.

I agree here too, apart from the unlikely aspect of global war, viruses are the ones that could possibly kill half or more (possibly but highly unlikely all) of the human population. And we don't seem the least bit concerned.

[August1991]

... kill as many others as possible, (cull the herd) or kill myself.

As to the former, I'm surprised you're so willing to involve others without their choice in your (possibly false) belief. I was thinking of the latter, but only rhetorically. Your value to this forum alone is too great, let alone in other walks of life.

[Now then, you are welcome to advocate birth control... ]

[geoffrey]

Or more strict beliefs in religion?

If most Africans are Catholic/Christian, they sure aren't showing it. Then again, they'd be having lots of kids... so really maybe I'm off base anyways.

Back on topic:

Birth control works too, though the side effects to society are becoming a little more clear. Estrogen in our water is extremely high, causing problems with fish (and American Idol type males ), and breast cancer is growing faster than all other cancers. What up?

Then again, these are concerns with the pill, but there isn't a really effective method available to the third world otherwise that allows women to protect themselves without male consent.

[margrace]

Have a lottery such as we have in the deer hunt in ONtario. Only the males winning a ticket get to procreate the rest have vasectomies preferably as soon as they are able to make babies.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear geoffrey,

Birth control works too, though the side effects to society are becoming a little more clear

Birth control is a band-aid method that does not address the main issue. The earth is in jeopardy because of our lifestyle, not primarily because of our numbers.

margrace,

Have a lottery such as we have in the deer hunt in ONtario. Only the males winning a ticket get to procreate the rest have vasectomies preferably as soon as they are able to make babies.

I think I read about this in "Eugenics for Dummies 101". I have a friend that is a firm believer in eugenics, but I tend to disagree with the notion. I have no desire to see that kind of 'Brave New World'.

[thejollyroger]

1) Humans cannot destroy the earth - all humans can do is change the earth's environment is a way that makes it difficult for the same number of humans to continue to live in the same places. Even under the worst 'global warming' scenarios the earth will still be capable of support a large number of humans and other forms of life.

I think you underestimate our stupididy :)

[theloniusfleabag]

) Humans cannot destroy the earth - all humans can do is change the earth's environment is a way that makes it difficult for the same number of humans to continue to live in the same places.

Rubbish. Generate a computer model of the earth with no foliage, ozone layer, or water.

I think you underestimate our stupididy

And our spelling is bad too.

[geoffrey]

) Humans cannot destroy the earth - all humans can do is change the earth's environment is a way that makes it difficult for the same number of humans to continue to live in the same places.

Rubbish. Generate a computer model of the earth with no foliage, ozone layer, or water.

I think you underestimate our stupididy

And our spelling is bad too.

Fleabag... where would said water go?

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear geoffrey,

Fleabag... where would said water go?

That is a question that would best befit an astrophysicist. In layman's terms, as I understand it, into Halley's tail. And other places.

[geoffrey]

Dear geoffrey,

Fleabag... where would said water go?

That is a question that would best befit an astrophysicist. In layman's terms, as I understand it, into Halley's tail. And other places.

Hmm. I don't know about this water disappearing. But you've got some other valid points here.

The big issue is, who do we let die? Can we choose not to save someone if they are dying of a disease? How do we address the ethical concerns?

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear geoffrey,

The big issue is, who do we let die?

We all shall die in our turn until values dictate otherwise. Your life or mine, saved or lost, will not rate above 'statistic' or 'human interest story' (in the media) unlesss it happens to affect affect masses, and/or you happen to do something of biblical proportions.

Eugenics contains, equally, the same horror that people now equate with 'Islamism'. The guiding of action to an arbitrary, rather than deduced, end.

We need to believe in that which is.

[August1991]

Dear geoffrey,

The big issue is, who do we let die?

We all shall die in our turn until values dictate otherwise. Your life or mine, saved or lost, will not rate above 'statistic' or 'human interest story' (in the media) unlesss it happens to affect affect masses, and/or you happen to do something of biblical proportions.

Eugenics contains, equally, the same horror that people now equate with 'Islamism'. The guiding of action to an arbitrary, rather than deduced, end.

We need to believe in that which is.

Thelonious, I think I can safely speak for other posters on this forum when I say that while your words above seem pregnant with meaning, the precise meaning is not altogether clear.

[geoffrey]

Agreed, some more clarification would be nice.

I've thought long on eugenics, and at least the consequentialist arguments for and against. But your views I'm really not clear on. I'd like to hear more.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear August1991 and geoffrey,

Eugenics contains, equally, the same horror that people now equate with 'Islamism'.The guiding of action to an arbitrary, rather than deduced, end.

Playing 'god' without seeking to become god. The killing of, or denial of life to, those that do not to conform to arbitrary or dogmatic ideals.

[fryingpan]

http://www.cbc.ca/story/science/national/2...f-20060405.html

A biology professor has been targeted by bloggers and talk radio hosts after a newspaper in Texas reported he said the Earth would be better off if most humans were dead.

Is the earth overpopulated? Is it going to be? I would answer yes to both, but with an explanitory note...the Earth could be in way better shape with the same population if our lifestyles were different. Consumerism makes humans act as cancer does, upon the host, earth.

The Earth would be better if everyone lived a more "environmentally friendly" lifestyle, but I don't think our neighbours to the south will be too pleased with that idea.

[quinton]

As you will see from the topics I started on these forums, I strongly agree with Eric Pianka's perspective.

Indeed, the earth would be in a better ecological balance with 10% of it's current population, and indeed humans would also be better off with 650 million other humans instead of 6.5 billion.

His point of view:

http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~varanus/Everybody.html

A pseudo obituary with info about Eric Pianka:

http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~varanus/obit.html

[geoffrey]

As you will see from the topics I started on these forums, I strongly agree with Eric Pianka's perspective.

Indeed, the earth would be in a better ecological balance with 10% of it's current population, and indeed humans would also be better off with 650 million other humans instead of 6.5 billion.

His point of view:

http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~varanus/Everybody.html

A pseudo obituary with info about Eric Pianka:

http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~varanus/obit.html

Anyone that suggests a mass cull of humans to 'balance the Earth'... I say he goes first.

[quinton]

geoffery, nobody here suggested a mass cull of humans.

[betsy]

Perhaps this is the price of progress. We've tampered with nature in more ways than one....usual natural elimination process does not do such an effective job anymore faced with the marvel of medical science.

[betsy]

geoffery, nobody here suggested a mass cull of humans.

No need to. Looking for a quick fix without lifting a finger?

Just let some nations be (like Africa)...they'd either do themselves in and with the help of various plagues and diseases, not to mention starvation...they'll be extinct.

But what an awful thought.