Are you a man or a woman?

[Scott75]

On 11/4/2024 at 10:24 AM, Deluge said:

On 11/2/2024 at 4:13 PM, phoenyx75 said:

Already did, which I suspect you know, but we're responding to previous versions of our conversation so it can't be helped. That being said, I think getting into it again is useful here for a specific reason, so here goes:

**

"Gay agenda" or "homosexual agenda" is a pejorative^[1][2] term used by sectors of the Christian religious right as a disparaging way to describe the advocacy of cultural acceptance and normalization of non-heterosexual sexual orientations and relationships. The term originated among social conservatives in the United States and has been adopted in nations with active anti-LGBT movements such as Hungary and Uganda.

The term refers to efforts to change government policies and laws on LGBT rights–related issues. Additionally, it has been used by social conservatives and others to describe alleged goals of LGBT rights activists, such as recruiting heterosexuals into what conservatives term a "homosexual lifestyle".

**

Source:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_agenda

That source is trash, so we'd better get to the correct source:

The Homosexual Agenda is a self-centered set of beliefs and objectives designed to mandate approval of homosexuality and its ideology. The goals and means of this movement include indoctrinating students in public school, restricting the free speech of opposition, obtaining special treatment for homosexuals, distorting Biblical teaching and science, and interfering with freedom of association. Advocates of the homosexual agenda seek special rights for homosexuals and self-described "LGBTQ people" that other people don't have, such as immunity from criticism (see hate speech, hate crimes).[1] The homosexual agenda is the biggest threat to the rights of free speech and religious freedom today.[2][3][4]

https://www.conservapedia.com/Homosexual_Agenda

First of all, insulting a source doesn't invalidate its claims. Secondly, the very URL of your source reveals its bias. I think it's clear that you're conservative, and that's fine, but simply dismissing other points of view isn't going to move this dicussion along.

[Scott75]

On 11/4/2024 at 10:24 AM, Deluge said:

On 11/2/2024 at 4:13 PM, phoenyx75 said:

How does the the homosexual/gay agenda have anything to do with transexual behavior?

Because transexual behavior also belongs under the LGBT umbrella. Trannies, homos, and lesbians are all part of the LGBT community. And I suspect most, if not all, trannies are part of the transgender agenda. 

For starters, I'm curious to know how you define transexual behaviour. Secondly, lesbians are part of the homosexual community. I suspect you think that homosexual is exclusive to homosexual males. As to how many transexuals are part of the transgender agenda, you'd first have to define what you think the transgender agenda is.

Edited November 6, 2024 by phoenyx75

[Scott75]

On 11/4/2024 at 10:27 AM, Deluge said:

  

On 11/2/2024 at 4:15 PM, phoenyx75 said:

I suspect the real reason you think I'm being dishonest is because I'm disagreeing with you on one or more points.

Not true. It's because you are trying to normalize abnormal behavior. You're trying to make concessions for the trans agenda even while you say you disagree with part of it. You either support the trans agenda, or you don't. There is no middle ground on this. 

Your above statements remind me of the power of words. I think we can agree that words like "abnormal" are seen as bad. Uncommon frequently means the same thing, but is seen as neutral. I can certainly agree that transgender people are uncommon, but that doesn't mean they're bad. I also think it's this notion that their "behavior", as you put it, is bad, that makes many of them think that the only solution is to appear more like the sex they identify with. I strongly believe that if people would accept their behavior more, they'd feel less of a need to take hormones and undergo surgery.

As to your bit about the "trans agenda", you have yet to even define what you think it is.

[Scott75]

On 11/4/2024 at 10:29 AM, Deluge said:

On 11/2/2024 at 4:27 PM, phoenyx75 said:

If it were so simple, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. As I've already pointed out, not all transgender people have the same agenda, so that part of your argument falls flat. This is ultimately an issue that all Americans, as well as people from other countries will have to deal with. In the U.S., it looks like transgender rights are gaining a significant amount of ground:

https://theconversation.com/better-locker-rooms-its-not-just-a-transgender-thing-74023

https://www.athleticbusiness.com/operations/legal/article/15683897/transgender-students-lawsuit-over-locker-room-access-costs-district-millions

https://www.aclu.org/news/lgbtq-rights/federal-appeals-courts-agree-trans-people-belong-in-schools

https://www.kcur.org/education/2024-06-04/missouri-appeals-court-sides-with-blue-springs-transgender-student-in-4-million-discrimination-case

https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-politics-and-policy/wisconsin-school-district-cant-restrict-bathrooms-trans-student-judge-rcna93471

I for one think that efforts to increase things like gender neutral washrooms is a good one.

It's simple for people who aren't lying to themselves.

After thinking about your statement, I think it may actually have some merit. Only I think, it's you and others like you who are lying to yourselves. Here's what I think the simple truth is:

There are a fair amount of people who identify as transgender. I think the more we are accepting of their wish to identify with their sex of choice and find ways to make their lives more bearable in fairly private areas such as washrooms and locker rooms, the less they'll feel the need for hormones/hormone blockers and surgery.

Edited November 6, 2024 by phoenyx75

[Scott75]

On 11/4/2024 at 10:34 AM, User said:

On 11/4/2024 at 8:09 AM, phoenyx75 said:

In truth, this is about definitions, old ones vs. new ones. You simply don't like the new definitions that a growing number of people are using for terms like gender, male and female. It reminds me of a line from one of Frank Herbert's books: "Scratch a conservative and you find someone who prefers the past over any future."

No, this is about appeasing the delusions of people who believe they are something they are not.

You only say this because you refuse to accept the fact that there are new definitions for words like gender, male and female. Once you can accept this fact, we can get into -why- you don't like these new definitions.

[Scott75]

On 11/4/2024 at 10:38 AM, User said:

On 11/4/2024 at 9:03 AM, phoenyx75 said:

On 11/3/2024 at 10:42 AM, User said:

Sex is not assigned. Sex is identified based on someones sexual organs and can be further confirmed by their genetics.

Actually, it's both:

**

Sex assignment (also known as gender assignment^[1][2]) is the discernment of an infant's sex, typically made at birth based on an examination of the baby's external genitalia by a healthcare provider such as a midwife, nurse, or physician.^[3] In the vast majority of cases (99.95%), sex is assigned unambiguously at birth. However, in about 1 in 2000 births, the baby's genitalia may not clearly indicate male or female, necessitating additional diagnostic steps, and deferring sex assignment.^[4][5]

**

Source:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_assignment

Actually, it is not. Quoting Wikipedia is not an argument or a rebuttal to what I just said. 

What you say tends to be backed up by nothing. What Wikipedia says is always backed up by sources. You can certainly contest Wikipedia's sources, but you're not doing that, all you're doing is saying that Wikipedia's assertions, which are backed up by sources, are not worth looking into.

Edited November 6, 2024 by phoenyx75

[Scott75]

On 11/4/2024 at 10:39 AM, Deluge said:

On 11/2/2024 at 6:48 PM, phoenyx75 said:

On 11/1/2024 at 2:23 PM, Deluge said:

And you won't see trannies saying that they are biologically the gender they identify with because they don't like that word. In fact they probably hate it. lol

Based on my research, it appears the term they use when determining what they are biologically is transgender, followed by male/female/man/woman/etc.

Biology stipulates that there are two sexes and that's it. Your research is biased. 

Looking at what I said, I see I worded things badly. That being said, you're not quite right either. There are actually 3 different sexes: male, female and intersex. A good article on sex and gender:

Sex and gender: What is the difference? | Medical News Today

Edited November 6, 2024 by phoenyx75

[Scott75]

On 11/4/2024 at 10:39 AM, Deluge said:

On 11/2/2024 at 6:48 PM, phoenyx75 said:

As noted elsewhere, if it's important for some reason to know a person's sex assigned at birth, a transgender person (or someone who knows their biological gender) can simply say they are transgender.

The term "Sex assignment" is politicized bullshit. It's best to stick with biological fact: If you're born with a penis, you're a boy. If you're born with a vagina, you're a girl. 

It's not, though. I suspect the reason it's used has to do with people who are intersex. From an article on the subject:

**

Intersex is an umbrella term that describes bodies that fall outside the strict male/female binary. There are lots of ways someone can be intersex.

 What does intersex mean?

Intersex is a general term used for a variety of situations in which a person is born with reproductive or sexual anatomy that doesn’t fit the boxes of “female” or “male.” Sometimes doctors do surgeries on intersex babies and children to make their bodies fit binary ideas of “male” or “female”. Doctors always assign intersex babies a legal sex (male or female, in most states), but, just like with non-intersex people, that doesn’t mean that’s the gender identity they’ll grow up to have. This brings up questions about whether or not it’s OK to do medical procedures on children’s bodies when it’s not needed for their health. 

Being intersex is a naturally occurring variation in humans, and it isn’t a medical problem — therefore, medical interventions (like surgeries or hormone therapy) on children usually aren’t medically necessary. Being intersex is also more common than most people realize. It’s hard to know exactly how many people are intersex, but estimates suggest that about 1-2 in 100 people born in the U.S. are intersex.

There are many different ways someone can be intersex. Some intersex people have genitals or internal sex organs that fall outside the male/female categories — such as a person with both ovarian and testicular tissues. Other intersex people have combinations of chromosomes that are different than XY ( usually associated with male) and XX (usually associated with female), like XXY. And some people are born with external genitals that fall into the typical male/female categories, but their internal organs or hormones don’t.

If a person’s genitals look different from what doctors and nurses expect when they’re born, someone might be identified as intersex from birth. Other times, someone might not know they’re intersex until later in life, like when they go through puberty. Sometimes a person can live their whole life without ever discovering that they’re intersex.

**

 

Full article:

https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/gender-identity/sex-gender-identity/whats-intersex

[Scott75]

On 11/4/2024 at 10:43 AM, Deluge said:

  

On 11/2/2024 at 6:54 PM, phoenyx75 said:

What do you think I'm wrong about?

I wasn't familiar with the term cultural marxism, so I decided to look it up. Here's what I got from Wikipedia:

**

"Cultural Marxism" refers to a far-right antisemitic conspiracy theory that misrepresents Western Marxism (especially the Frankfurt School) as being responsible for modern progressive movements, identity politics, and political correctness. The conspiracy theory posits that there is an ongoing and intentional academic and intellectual effort to subvert Western society via a planned culture war that undermines the supposed Christian values^{[note 1]} of traditionalist conservatism and seeks to replace them with culturally liberal values.^{[1][2][3][4][5]}

A contemporary revival of the Nazi propaganda term "Cultural Bolshevism", the contemporary version of the conspiracy theory originated in the United States during the 1990s.^{[6][1][7][note 2]} Originally found only on the far-right political fringe, the term began to enter mainstream discourse in the 2010s and is now found globally.^[7] The conspiracy theory of a Marxist culture war is promoted by right-wing politicians, fundamentalist religious leaders, political commentators in mainstream print and television media, and white supremacist terrorists,^[8] and has been described as "a foundational element of the alt-right worldview".^[9] Scholarly analysis of the conspiracy theory has concluded that it has no basis in fact.^[7][5][10]

**

Source:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism_conspiracy_theory

So I guess this is your type of thing?

Wikipedia is trash. 

It's better to use this source: 

Cultural Marxism is a branch of Marxist ideology formulated by the Frankfurt School, which had its origins the early part of the twentieth century. Cultural Marxism comprises much of the foundation of political correctness and wokeism. It emerged as a response of European Marxist intellectuals disillusioned by the early political failures of conventional economic Marxist ideology.[1] Cultural Marxism was also opposed to Soviet Communism.[2]

The central idea of Cultural Marxism is to soften up and prepare Western Civilization for economic Marxism after a gradual, relentless, sustained attack on every institution of Western culture,[3] including schools,[4] literature, art, film, the Judeo-Christian worldview, tradition, marriage and the family,[5] sexual mores, national sovereignty, etc.[6] The attacks are usually framed in Marxist terms as a class struggle between oppressors and oppressed; the members of the latter class allegedly include women, minorities, homosexuals, and adherents of non-Western ideologies such as Islam. Cultural Marxism has been described as "the cultural branch of globalism."[7]

While Marx's Communist Manifesto focused on the alleged class struggle between bourgeois (owners of the means of production) and proletariat (workers), Marx did address culture, which he intimated would change after his economic vision was implemented. Patrick Buchanan argues that Cultural Marxism succeeded where Marx failed.[8] Marxism has permeated the American Left.[9]

Among cultural Marxists, the book Dialectic of Enlightenment is considered to be a central text.[10][11]

An effective way for cultural Marxists to influence the culture is to infiltrate schools and indoctrinate students, which the Democratic Socialists of America explicitly endorsed in 2018.[12]

https://www.conservapedia.com/Cultural_Marxism

Sources can't be refuted by simply saying that they are "trash". Nevertheless, I appreciate that your response didn't end there. I may not always agree wth conservative beliefs, but I appreciate the fact that you took the time to quote and link to a source that expresses them. Anyway, it's clear that there are wildly diverging takes on what cultural marxism means, as well as the people who use the term.

[Scott75]

On 11/4/2024 at 10:40 AM, User said:

On 11/4/2024 at 9:12 AM, phoenyx75 said:

This goes back to my belief that there should be a way to differentiate between cisgender and transgender people.

We have that, they are called transgender. 

That certainly works when you want to identify people who are transgender. The problem occurs when you want to identify people who aren't. Cisgender works great to do this.

Edited November 6, 2024 by phoenyx75

[Scott75]

On 11/4/2024 at 10:53 AM, Deluge said:

On 11/3/2024 at 6:12 PM, phoenyx75 said:

On 11/3/2024 at 10:02 AM, Nationalist said:

No you do not need to add "cis".

Again, it depends on how a given person defines the words man and woman.

Only if you want to help someone fuel his fantasy. 

In the REAL world, we go by biological sex. The person is either a man or a woman. 

From what I've seen, the word sex itself, when used in a biological context, is generally sufficient. So, you can -usually- say that a person's sex is male and female. The key here, though, is usually. This is because of people who are intersex. Below is an article that gets into intersex people:

https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/gender-identity/sex-gender-identity/whats-intersex

Edited November 6, 2024 by phoenyx75

[Nationalist]

20 minutes ago, phoenyx75 said:

From what I've seen, the word sex itself, when used in a biological context, is generally sufficient. So, you can -usually- say that a person's sex is male and female. The key here, though, is usually. This is because of people who are intersex. Below is an article that gets into intersex people:

https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/gender-identity/sex-gender-identity/whats-intersex

Intersex?

Dude...this is silly. Nobody but the most Tweenkie would even consider this.

[CdnFox]

5 hours ago, phoenyx75 said:

What you call 'perverting' is simply changing the original meaning of the word. The definitions of words change all the time and a good amount of people have decided that their meaning of gender now includes anyone who identifies with said gender. The fat that words such as biological or cis now need to be added to gender in order to differentiate between cis and transgender people just means that there are still situations where it's important to know the difference between these 2 types of people. Incidentally, I think cis is better for 2 reasons:

1- It's shorter.

2- It doesn't just say what a person's biological gender is, but also what gender they identify with.

Meanings of words do not change overnight.  And not just because a "good amount" of people decide it. 

It's an organic process that happens over time in a specific manner, and one definition supplants the other, you don't get people using two definitions. 

You're talking about mis-defining words to support your agenda.  That is not the same thing at all. 

[Deluge]

3 hours ago, phoenyx75 said:

From what I've seen, the word sex itself, when used in a biological context, is generally sufficient. So, you can -usually- say that a person's sex is male and female. The key here, though, is usually. This is because of people who are intersex. Below is an article that gets into intersex people:

https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/gender-identity/sex-gender-identity/whats-intersex

Biological sex is ALWAYS sufficient; it's why society needs to stick with it. 

 

[Deluge]

3 hours ago, phoenyx75 said:

Sources can't be refuted by simply saying that they are "trash". Nevertheless, I appreciate that your response didn't end there. I may not always agree wth conservative beliefs, but I appreciate the fact that you took the time to quote and link to a source that expresses them. Anyway, it's clear that there are wildly diverging takes on what cultural marxism means, as well as the people who use the term.

The point, Phoenix75, is that you are desperately searching for a way to sow confusion into this topic. Trust me, it's truly not necessary. My advice to you is to look for some other agenda to hang your hat on - something less radical. As already demonstrated in this election, America is not interested in your pettiness. It's time to focus on getting America healthy and strong again, not weakening it with woke bullshit. 

[User]

3 hours ago, phoenyx75 said:

That certainly works when you want to identify people who are transgender. The problem occurs when you want to identify people who aren't. Cisgender works great to do this.

LOL, no. Male, Female, Transgender. No problems at all. 

 

[User]

4 hours ago, phoenyx75 said:

What you say tends to be backed up by nothing. What Wikipedia says is always backed up by sources. You can certainly contest Wikipedia's sources, but you're not doing that, all you're doing is saying that Wikipedia's assertions, which are backed up by sources, are not worth looking into.

What I say is backed up by logic, observation, and reason. 

You are born a male or female, a doctor is not "assigning" that gender to you at birth, it is an observation of what you are. 

What you are doing, is playing a dishonest game of not actually responding to what I say, and just posting what someone else is saying to contradict me. That is not an argument. That is not a rebuttal. 

You can't actually bring yourself to argue against this obvious point. 

[User]

4 hours ago, phoenyx75 said:

You only say this because you refuse to accept the fact that there are new definitions for words like gender, male and female. Once you can accept this fact, we can get into -why- you don't like these new definitions.

Yes, I refuse to accept your new definitions. I have been obvious on that. As I have repeatedly demonstrated, they are nonsensical and meaningless. 

As I have already told you before, you used the term to define the term. Its nonsensical gibberish. Nevermind, it is entirely pointless as well, since you still have to fabricate even more terms that defeats the whole point of trying to steal what male and female means. 

5 hours ago, phoenyx75 said:

You keep on denying the fact that terms such as male and female now have more than one definition. I've already shown you hard evidence of this. Once you accept this, we can talk about why you don't like it, but accepting the fact that these words have more than one meaning is the first step.

They don't. They have one definition and you are trying to change that, I refute your nonsensical gibberish. You are also now trying to say they have more than one meaning when you have been arguing to change the meaning. 

I have already told you many times why I don't like it. I don't have to first accept it to then say I don't like it. This is just more illogical nonsense from you. 

 

[User]

5 hours ago, phoenyx75 said:

So, one definition for female as defined by gender and one definition for female as defined by sex.

This is not the kind of different meaning you were arguing the term has. 

All this is saying is that the term female can relate to talking about sex or gender, but they are still the same thing, as it says female is belonging to being a woman or a girl. Which... you must be female to be a woman or girl or to have the sex of female you are a woman or a girl. 

This is the underlying dishonesty of this game you are playing in trying to distort these terms. 

 

[Deluge]

4 hours ago, phoenyx75 said:

It's not, though. I suspect the reason it's used has to do with people who are intersex. From an article on the subject:

**

Intersex is an umbrella term that describes bodies that fall outside the strict male/female binary. There are lots of ways someone can be intersex.

 What does intersex mean?

Intersex is a general term used for a variety of situations in which a person is born with reproductive or sexual anatomy that doesn’t fit the boxes of “female” or “male.” Sometimes doctors do surgeries on intersex babies and children to make their bodies fit binary ideas of “male” or “female”. Doctors always assign intersex babies a legal sex (male or female, in most states), but, just like with non-intersex people, that doesn’t mean that’s the gender identity they’ll grow up to have. This brings up questions about whether or not it’s OK to do medical procedures on children’s bodies when it’s not needed for their health. 

Being intersex is a naturally occurring variation in humans, and it isn’t a medical problem — therefore, medical interventions (like surgeries or hormone therapy) on children usually aren’t medically necessary. Being intersex is also more common than most people realize. It’s hard to know exactly how many people are intersex, but estimates suggest that about 1-2 in 100 people born in the U.S. are intersex.

There are many different ways someone can be intersex. Some intersex people have genitals or internal sex organs that fall outside the male/female categories — such as a person with both ovarian and testicular tissues. Other intersex people have combinations of chromosomes that are different than XY ( usually associated with male) and XX (usually associated with female), like XXY. And some people are born with external genitals that fall into the typical male/female categories, but their internal organs or hormones don’t.

If a person’s genitals look different from what doctors and nurses expect when they’re born, someone might be identified as intersex from birth. Other times, someone might not know they’re intersex until later in life, like when they go through puberty. Sometimes a person can live their whole life without ever discovering that they’re intersex.

**

 

Full article:

https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/gender-identity/sex-gender-identity/whats-intersex

You're talking about hermaphrodites and they are much too small of a community to force the entire nation into the tranny agenda. They will continue living the way they've always lived. 

[User]

5 hours ago, phoenyx75 said:

You make a good point. That being said, there are situations where I find it makes more sense to use the old definitions. As an English teacher of mine once said, it's important to know one's audience and tailor one's content for them appropriately.

As I said, I refuse to play into the delusions of others and lie. 

The dishonesty of what you are trying to argue here would be like saying if you know you are going to talk to a classroom of people who understand grammar at a 1st-grade level, so you are going to play along with their ignorance and not correct them when they make mistakes with their grammar, instead, you will encourage them and affirm them in their poor use of grammar you will play down your own speech to include poor/incorrect grammar for them. 

 

[User]

5 hours ago, phoenyx75 said:

So, I could say "A biological man that identifies as a man" instead of just saying cisgender. Whatever floats your boat.

LOL, no. Just say male. 

5 hours ago, phoenyx75 said:

Secondly, you've still shown no evidence that there is anything "nonsensical" about the new definitions for gender terms such as male and female.

Yes, I have. You use the term to define the term. 

[User]

6 hours ago, phoenyx75 said:

I think cis is better for 2 reasons:

1- It's shorter.

2- It doesn't just say what a person's biological gender is, but also what gender they identify with.

No, male or female is shorter. 

That is what the vast majority already use. 

Just use trans for those who want to identify as something they are not. 

[Scott75]

On 11/4/2024 at 11:05 AM, CdnFox said:

On 11/4/2024 at 7:06 AM, phoenyx75 said:

As you know, the term male has more than one definition.

It absolutely does not. 

male

/māl/

adjective

 

1. of or denoting the sex that produces small, typically motile gametes, especially spermatozoa, with which a female may be fertilized or inseminated to produce offspring.

   "male children"

    

   There you go. 

That's one of the definitions. The other relates to gender. Wikipedia explains:

**

Usage

In humans, the word male can be used in the context of gender, such as for gender role or gender identity of a man or boy.^[7] For example, according to Merriam-Webster, "male" can refer to "having a gender identity that is the opposite of female".^[21] According to the Cambridge Dictionary, "male" can mean "belonging or relating to men".^[22]

**

Source:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male

[Scott75]

On 11/4/2024 at 11:19 AM, Deluge said:

On 11/3/2024 at 7:39 AM, phoenyx75 said:

I was simply agreeing with you that using the word gender has become too ambiguous and that it's better to define a person's biological gender by asking for a person's sex, or, even clearer, their "sex assigned at birth".

Then you weren't agreeing with me. lol

There's no such thing as "sex assigned at birth" in a sane and normal world. You're either a boy or a girl at birth and everyone sees it.

Not true:

**

“Sex” refers to the physical differences between people who are male, female, or intersex. A person typically has their sex assigned at birth based on physiological characteristics, including their genitalia and chromosome composition. This assigned sex is called a person’s “natal sex.”

**

Source:

Sex and gender: What is the difference? | Medical News Today

Note the word "typically". It's quite important, as people aren't -always- assigned a sex at birth. The article explains how things aren't always typical:

**

Society often sees maleness and femaleness as a biological binary. However, there are issues with this distinction. For instance, the chromosomal markers are not always clear-cut. Some male babies are born with two or three X chromosomes, just as some female babies are born with a Y chromosome.

Also, some babies are born with atypical genitalia due to a difference in sex development.

This type of difference was once called a “disorder of sex development,” but this term is problematic. In a 2015 surveyTrusted Source, most respondents perceived the term negatively. A further review found that many people do not use it at all, and instead use “intersex.”

**

Edited November 6, 2024 by phoenyx75