When will kids stop dying in our streets?

[geoffrey]

Maybe I've been living outside of Toronto too long. Maybe I'm just overly sensitive to violence and death. But here in Calgary, and I'm sure throughout Canadian cities, we are all experiencing the same thing. In the last week, we've had a handfull of gang related violence incidents in our city.

The first gang shooting Wednesday night was near the Road King Truck Stop at Barlow Trail and 50th Avenue SE. A known gang member is dead and another man was sent to hospital. Then yesterday (Thursday), shots rang out in the north east community of Rundle, injuring one man who was sent to hospital and leaving bullet holes around a mailbox at a nearby home. Police admit they suspect the shooting was in retaliation for the first one.

A woman in the house says gang members shot-up the wrong place and she's so shaken by the incident, she would not appear on camera but said, "We are completely in shock because we know we are not related with any gang, and ah for us, we forgive who did this and we hope they stop."

As for police they are frustrated with no arrests being made in any of the shootings.

Source: http://www.citytv.com/calgary/news_26082.aspx

The trouble with the first murder, is that the victim should have been safely in jail. He was arrested earlier this year as part of a police sting of gangs throughout Calgary, but our legal system of course has him back on the streets.

Should gang membership be a imprisionable offence, perhaps with a mandatory minimum of 5 years? I understand the arguments that prision just teaches these kids to be better criminals, but we also can't have these guys on our streets where innocent people are being found in the crossfire.

As a note, these are Asian gangs, all people involved are Asian so far. I'm sure it wouldn't be racist to say that the majority of major violence in Calgary is from these Asian gangsters.

[Spike22]

Maybe I've been living outside of Toronto too long. Maybe I'm just overly sensitive to violence and death. But here in Calgary, and I'm sure throughout Canadian cities, we are all experiencing the same thing. In the last week, we've had a handfull of gang related violence incidents in our city.

The first gang shooting Wednesday night was near the Road King Truck Stop at Barlow Trail and 50th Avenue SE. A known gang member is dead and another man was sent to hospital. Then yesterday (Thursday), shots rang out in the north east community of Rundle, injuring one man who was sent to hospital and leaving bullet holes around a mailbox at a nearby home. Police admit they suspect the shooting was in retaliation for the first one.

A woman in the house says gang members shot-up the wrong place and she's so shaken by the incident, she would not appear on camera but said, "We are completely in shock because we know we are not related with any gang, and ah for us, we forgive who did this and we hope they stop."

As for police they are frustrated with no arrests being made in any of the shootings.

Source: http://www.citytv.com/calgary/news_26082.aspx

The trouble with the first murder, is that the victim should have been safely in jail. He was arrested earlier this year as part of a police sting of gangs throughout Calgary, but our legal system of course has him back on the streets.

Should gang membership be a imprisionable offence, perhaps with a mandatory minimum of 5 years? I understand the arguments that prision just teaches these kids to be better criminals, but we also can't have these guys on our streets where innocent people are being found in the crossfire.

As a note, these are Asian gangs, all people involved are Asian so far. I'm sure it wouldn't be racist to say that the majority of major violence in Calgary is from these Asian gangsters.

Very bad of you to pick on these fine outstanding (minority) citizens. I am sure there are many crimes being perpetrated by whites in your hood. I can't imagine anyone from Asia or any other place would dare to do such things in our country.

OK everyone of them caught should be sent adrift on a (somewhat)seaworthy craft back to their s*itholes.

Locking them up in our prisons is no solutions - it just costs you and I $. Ssend them back to whatever sewer they crawled out of and their families too for not controlling the little darlings.

[geoffrey]

Very bad of you to pick on these fine outstanding (minority) citizens. I am sure there are many crimes being perpetrated by whites in your hood. I can't imagine anyone from Asia or any other place would dare to do such things in our country.

OK everyone of them caught should be sent adrift on a (somewhat)seaworthy craft back to their s*itholes.

Locking them up in our prisons is no solutions - it just costs you and I $. Ssend them back to whatever sewer they crawled out of and their families too for not controlling the little darlings.

For the immigrant ones, I couldn't agree more, ship them out.

But what do we do with the Canadian born ones?

[Minimus Maximus]

Very bad of you to pick on these fine outstanding (minority) citizens. I am sure there are many crimes being perpetrated by whites in your hood. I can't imagine anyone from Asia or any other place would dare to do such things in our country.

OK everyone of them caught should be sent adrift on a (somewhat)seaworthy craft back to their s*itholes.

Locking them up in our prisons is no solutions - it just costs you and I $. Ssend them back to whatever sewer they crawled out of and their families too for not controlling the little darlings.

For the immigrant ones, I couldn't agree more, ship them out.

But what do we do with the Canadian born ones?

I voted to deport after the first offence (first generation immigrants). If you can't respect the laws of our country...get the f@*k out.

I think that this is indicative of the failings of our justice system. Many of these gang bangers have been known to the authorities long before they commit murder. Many have gun related charges on their records, yet still prowl the streets. If 5 year minimums were given for gun related offences some of these recent shootings never would have occured.

Whether they are foreign or Canadian born the justice system has the same obligation to protect the lawful citizens of this country.

[fixer1]

I will agree that immigrants who are part of gangs and caught doingcrimes should be deported immediately, no matter what faces them upon return to their country of origin. As for the Canadian born and bred ones go, we need to make them serv sentences that are in keeping with the crimes they commit. All murders should be tried as an adult crime no matter the age of the accused and the sentences should be the same as adults. While I will say that it is going too far to make membership in gangs an offence, it should be a mitigating factor in sentencing. What I would like to see done is make parents responsible for acts of their children right up to the age of 18, as for damage etc. We will also need to allow the corpral punishment of these same children up to adult, as there has to be the tools for the parenbts etc.. If a parent finds they can not control a child they can and should turn over their rights in rasing that child to Childrens Aid. This will allow the incorrigible children to be removed from parental responsibility.

there was a time when teenagers were much more respectful of others and they were better prepared for life in the real world. We seem to have lost any respect that teenagers used to have, and it all started with the times where the physcoligists started telling us what we were doing wrong. We have since that time lost control of our youth and many people still think the physc's were right. So I will ask you, were we better off with the youth of the 1950's or the youth of the 2006's? It changebecause we allowed the way of life to change. It will only change back if we again make it a change in the way of life. Every child should be trained by the time they are 18 to be able to cope with life on their own. this is not to say that we kick them out at that stage, but we need for them to make clear choices that we as a society can accept as proper behaviour. The work ethic of our youth is so far out of wack that they demand your time money and never with your ever knowing what their intentions are. I can remember in my youth getting into minor trouble and having a police officer give me a boot in the arse and told me to go home and behave as next time I would be arrested. In those days being arrested meant something. No parent would have ever complained that the officer was being cruel by booting me in the butt. Today that just is never done and even if an officer raises his voice at the youth, they claim brutiality. I say better the old way and the community standards of that time, then what you see now.

[geoffrey]

there was a time when teenagers were much more respectful of others and they were better prepared for life in the real world. We seem to have lost any respect that teenagers used to have, and it all started with the times where the physcoligists started telling us what we were doing wrong. We have since that time lost control of our youth and many people still think the physc's were right. So I will ask you, were we better off with the youth of the 1950's or the youth of the 2006's? It changebecause we allowed the way of life to change. It will only change back if we again make it a change in the way of life. Every child should be trained by the time they are 18 to be able to cope with life on their own. this is not to say that we kick them out at that stage, but we need for them to make clear choices that we as a society can accept as proper behaviour. The work ethic of our youth is so far out of wack that they demand your time money and never with your ever knowing what their intentions are. I can remember in my youth getting into minor trouble and having a police officer give me a boot in the arse and told me to go home and behave as next time I would be arrested. In those days being arrested meant something. No parent would have ever complained that the officer was being cruel by booting me in the butt. Today that just is never done and even if an officer raises his voice at the youth, they claim brutiality. I say better the old way and the community standards of that time, then what you see now.

I wasn't alive in pre-1980's so I can't speak to what the streets were like in the 50's, but even as an observer of how things have been in the last few years, its definitely going down hill. This is somewhat because I'm living in a growing city, and alot of these people coming in have skewed the balance, and it's lost its innocence somewhat. But realistically, I can't even imagine some of the stuff you here on the train coming home anymore. Kids talk about the drugs they use in open forums with adults right there. I was shocked when I heard this, and deeply concerned. I've heard stories of people that have lost their friends in beatings and gang violence (I always listen in on these people, its enlightening some days on an otherwise boring 45 minute train ride).

Are lives of violence and drug use really that common and accepted in our society? Do kids really have such little respect for others and most importantly themselves?

[Spike22]

This whole thing is all about Shapiro trying to save his job for a little while longer. Its all about politics.

If this guy is so trustworthy, where was he on AdScam?

Or on any of the other possibly criminal adventures of the Liberals?

Why hasn't anyone been charged with all that fraud thats been happening in government? Has anyone served a day behind bars yet?

Very bad of you to pick on these fine outstanding (minority) citizens. I am sure there are many crimes being perpetrated by whites in your hood. I can't imagine anyone from Asia or any other place would dare to do such things in our country.

OK everyone of them caught should be sent adrift on a (somewhat)seaworthy craft back to their s*itholes.

Locking them up in our prisons is no solutions - it just costs you and I $. Ssend them back to whatever sewer they crawled out of and their families too for not controlling the little darlings.

For the immigrant ones, I couldn't agree more, ship them out.

But what do we do with the Canadian born ones?

Boot camp for them. We used to send these delinquents to the army, most of these misguided youths turned out to be good law abiding citizens who made a lasting contribution to this country.

[Charles Anthony]

When will kids stop dying in our streets?

Unfortunately, the poll does not offer any preventive choices.

To stop violence from happening on the street, I would suggest having more officers patrolling the streets.

[Michael Hardner]

Boot camp for them. We used to send these delinquents to the army, most of these misguided youths turned out to be good law abiding citizens who made a lasting contribution to this country.

Wow. I can't believe people are still advocating that solution. It has fallen from favour. Doesn't work and is too expensive.

[geoffrey]

Boot camp for them. We used to send these delinquents to the army, most of these misguided youths turned out to be good law abiding citizens who made a lasting contribution to this country.

Wow. I can't believe people are still advocating that solution. It has fallen from favour. Doesn't work and is too expensive.

More expensive than prision? I don't know, prision is awfully expensive.

I don't support it because I think it's unfair to our law abiding troops to have criminals amongst them.

[Wilber]

Boot camp for them. We used to send these delinquents to the army, most of these misguided youths turned out to be good law abiding citizens who made a lasting contribution to this country.

We have never done that. Except for a short period near the end of the world wars when there was conscription, the Canadian military has always been made up of volunteers.

[fellowtraveller]

Gun control won't make much difference in Edmonton. Most homicides are stabbings, two more young guys were killed this weekend. In many cases, alcohol is involved.

[Canadian Blue]

Boot camp for them. We used to send these delinquents to the army, most of these misguided youths turned out to be good law abiding citizens who made a lasting contribution to this country.

Maybe in the prison system. I think civilian prison's should be modelled after military prison's. You should have absolutely nothing, and then when you are behaving good you get some luxuries. I think the whole correction's system shoud be merit based so good behavior is rewarded.

[FTA Lawyer]

Should gang membership be a imprisionable offence, perhaps with a mandatory minimum of 5 years? I understand the arguments that prision just teaches these kids to be better criminals, but we also can't have these guys on our streets where innocent people are being found in the crossfire.

I voted to give them more sympathy and money as a disingenuous response to a disingenuous poll...but I'm just being a bit cranky on a Monday...

As to your musing that gang membersip could be made an imprisonable offence...

Criminal Code s. 467.11

Criminal Code s. 467.12

Criminal Code s. 467.13

Your poll could have the option "just use the laws we already have" but that would require the public and politicians to put the money not only where their mouths are, but where it would matter...into more police, more prosecutors, more judges, more legal aid.

If we properly funded our justice system we would be far more efficient, see far less cases being tossed out due to the failures of the prosecution team and be far less likely to do injustice through wrongful convictions or through plea bargains where no plea bargain should be entertained.

Just today, I was supposed to be in a trial all day...booked in April...everyone shows up ready to go but the court-ordered interpreter was somehow administratively cancelled...no one can explain why.

So, the Arabic-speaking complainant can't testify so the matter is adjourned to another full day in July 2007. The offence date was in October 2005. We wasted an entire day of court time (including judge, clerk, facility) for no good reason...and since this happens all the time, the next available date is in July.

All of which means that there is now a decent chance that all charges will be tossed out because it is now taking the Crown 20 months to bring the matter to trial when the normal acceptable standard is supposed to be somewhere between 8 - 12 months.

Sorry for the side-track rant about a non-gang case, but it is indicitive of why you are beside yourself and posing the original question in the first place.

FTA

[Michael Hardner]

FTA... excellent post. This issue gets far too little coverage in the press.