Liberal teacher to students: Hate America!

[Montgomery Burns]

Class was globalization. US domination is not an evil thing considering they are the most sucessful country on the planet and are required to keep people like Saddam from dominating the globe in a reign of terror. Bennish did not utter anything that hated America. Rather he was telling students not to accept what was given to them by news and government but to look at it through a point of view of the eastern world.

The facts he gave on interference in the latin world along with the reality that the US did supply weapons to Iraq and Iran to keep their power concentrated on each other were correct. That is not evil but an intelligent reality.

I looked for it but never once did he expouse any view point from a personal perspective.

It is a Grade 10 GEOGRAPHY class. Quit trying to muddy the waters so you can justify your "it's all good" views.

[BubberMiley]

Saddam was linked to Al Qaeda. Duh! Everyone knows that. One of the 1993 World Trade Center bombers fled to Iraq and was put on a govt salary. Zarqawi fled to Iraq after the Taliban fell and was treated in an Iraqi hospital for a wound he suffered while fighting in Afghanistan.

Yeah, your sourceless attempts at making connections fail to justify invasion, especially when the U.S. funded al Qaeda in Afghanistan in the war against the Soviets.

[Montgomery Burns]

this is priceless.

The right arguing with the further right!

Drew, thanks for the "normalcy". You are a conservative with a head on his shoulders and don't follow the Bushbots -- how refreshing.

LOL -- A flaming right wing bastard. Excellent.

I don't agree with equating Bush with Hitler. I do agree with making kids think.

MB, think of the life of a teacher for a moment...

A teacher is around people of all economic, political, and religious stripes. He needs to be able to relate to each of these differences. He needs to be able to communicate with them all. The only way to do that is to be open and tolerant of ALL ideas, not just the ones that are currently "popular" in the nation.

How do you feel about the teaching of creation as actual science? In public schools? Is this the correct thing to do? Should we teach the children to analyse creation and analyse evolution or should we just tell them what to think?

If this was a political science class, I still wouldn't like it. However I wouldn't ban his delusional ranting--unlike liberals who try to ban creationsim being taught in religion classes.

Plus his student said he devotes only 20% of class to geography; the other 80% goes to his political rants.

He should be fired for not doing his job.

[Drea]

If this was a political science class, I still wouldn't like it. However I wouldn't ban his delusional ranting--unlike liberals who try to ban creationsim being taught in religion classes.

So you do agree that it's ok to teach creation to kids (not college or university, but grade school kids)? They are NOT teaching creation only in "religious" studies, but in science class. In the "where did we come from" category.

Plus his student said he devotes only 20% of class to geography; the other 80% goes to his political rants.

"Why is the world carved up into countries? Why are there borders at all? We are all just people aren't we?"

These are questions a teenager would ask. How would you answer? Would your answer be "political" in any way shape or form?

Or would you say "well, son, geographically, the earth is carved up by mountain ranges, oceans and deserts, etc. Countries are "handed out" by God. Humans have no political adgendas behind the creation of this or that country -- that's the way it is, that's the way it's always been -- quit asking so many questions son!"

He should be fired for not doing his job.

Oh sure, fire those who try to make our children independent thinkers. Hire only those who follow the politically correct doctrine of the day. Don't allow independent thought, don't allow debate. Don't allow dissenting opinion to enter the classroom.

Shameful, utterly shameful.

[geoffrey]

So you do agree that it's ok to teach creation to kids (not college or university, but grade school kids)? They are NOT teaching creation only in "religious" studies, but in science class. In the "where did we come from" category.

Agreed. It's trouble. Creationism shouldn't be taught in science class. Evolution still isn't right though. I counter on scientific argument not religious though.

"Why is the world carved up into countries? Why are there borders at all? We are all just people aren't we?"

These are questions a teenager would ask. How would you answer? Would your answer be "political" in any way shape or form?

Or would you say "well, son, geographically, the earth is carved up by mountain ranges, oceans and deserts, etc. Countries are "handed out" by God. Humans have no political adgendas behind the creation of this or that country -- that's the way it is, that's the way it's always been -- quit asking so many questions son!"

Politics are important part of geography, I don't think anyone argues this. Listening to that freak rant for an hour isn't really political teaching, its attempted indoctrination.

Oh sure, fire those who try to make our children independent thinkers. Hire only those who follow the politically correct doctrine of the day. Don't allow independent thought, don't allow debate. Don't allow dissenting opinion to enter the classroom.

Shameful, utterly shameful.

Making our children independant thinkers doesn't require teaching falisies and fringe elements. Would you approve of a teacher that taught facism as a viable alternative to the current system to your kids? Probably not... Teachers have a position of influence above most others, and when teachers abuse their power like this to instill their rather radical views on the world, they need to be removed.

If it was your or me saying it, whatever. If its a teacher, there is some issue.

[Drew Bedson]

It is a Grade 10 GEOGRAPHY class. Quit trying to muddy the waters so you can justify your "it's all good" views.

I don't believe it. I spent a couple of hours early this morning talking with a guy who hasn't even bothered to listen to the tape.

At the end of the tape, he says that he is glad they asked all those questions as it indicates they have an understanding on globalisation and the cause and effect.

Then, he goes onto say how they will be doing an entire segment on globalisation and how the world shrinks over time. And then the tape ends as he teaches that segment I assume.

here is some advice to all - Listen to the tape in it's entirety.

For a teacher to bring up world issues and provoke the students to think is not wrong, to be ranting and making comparisons with Hitler is getting close to what we call in Canada hate speech. This guy obviously hates Bush, which is fine, but he's trying to get his students to hate him too.

He did not compare Bush with Hitler though. He compared the way the messages were recieved by the public to be similar to how Nazi propaganda was recieved. And, if you bother to download the tape, which you obviously have not and listen to it, he even says he is not.

He also makes no derrogatory remark against Bush.

[geoffrey]

It is a Grade 10 GEOGRAPHY class. Quit trying to muddy the waters so you can justify your "it's all good" views.

I don't believe it. I spent a couple of hours early this morning talking with a guy who hasn't even bothered to listen to the tape.

At the end of the tape, he says that he is glad they asked all those questions as it indicates they have an understanding on globalisation and the cause and effect.

Then, he goes onto say how they will be doing an entire segment on globalisation and how the world shrinks over time. And then the tape ends as he teaches that segment I assume.

here is some advice to all - Listen to the tape in it's entirety.

Just because you sympathize with al-Qaeda doesn't mean that anyone should be expressing those views to children. Take your radical idealism elsewhere.

Anyone that says al-Qaeda's "philosophy is correct" definitely raises eyebrows in my book. Of course you'd be ok with this guy, he's a moderate compared to those ideas.

You might be right. This opinion is a good view of how the radical left sees us. But I don't see why kids need to be subject to having these fringe elements taught as fact.

[Drew Bedson]

Just because you sympathize with al-Qaeda doesn't mean that anyone should be expressing those views to children. Take your radical idealism elsewhere.

It's called understanding the threat and why it is a viable threat. Most people fall under the opinion that they are a bunch of freaks running around blowing things up indiscriminently. They are not. Each action they take is part of a whole with both strategic and tactical goals in mind. Very terrirfying indeed when you consider that in about twenty years or less, they could have controlling stake in the economies of most of the world as well as a first world military - and be willing to use it.

I'm willing to bet that you think Iraq was invaded because Saddam was simply a bad guy or, that it was believed that he had WMDs as well. And the 'War on Terror' is just because a bomb goes off killing ten people here and there. That's not a threat, that's a nuisence. You don't mobilize millions of people and invade countries for a nuisence.

Anyone that says al-Qaeda's "philosophy is correct" definitely raises eyebrows in my book.

You don't listen to the tape, why does it not surprise me you don't read my posts as well? Their philosophy is correct given their goal - to bring an Arab people out of the eight centuries long doldrum they have been under and make them the biggest force in the world both economicly, politically and militarily. All by fire and sword.

Now, if you are poor shmuck living in a dirty village in Yemen of whatever, what has more appeal - being 'Son of Saladine' and cleansing the world by fire and sword inthe name of Allah or - living in a dirt hut and shitting in a hole in the ground?

You might be right. This opinion is a good view of how the radical left sees us. But I don't see why kids need to be subject to having these fringe elements taught as fact.

Last time. Just listen to the frickin' tape. He explains, like Chomsky does quite often, how others see actions of the US. He is not saying those actions are right, wrong, indifferent but opening minds up to the prism of others as they see actions.

He even adds disclaimers as he goes along stating how he is expousing no personal view point and, while I'm willing to bet he voted Democrat last election, I'm also willing to bet that he knows why the War on Terror is importent and was not about oil, knows a lot more about it and it's repercussions than the 'Iraq had WMDs' and 'connected with 911' morons.

[sharkman]

The teacher made comparisons with Bush's state of the union remarks and things Hilter used to say. The Colorado school district involved, certainly no bastion of conservative philosophy, has suspended him while they investigate. No doubt the kid has plenty of tapes and a willingness to share. The teacher has even decided not to sue the school board over the matter. If a liberal school board is so concerned about the matter that they have suspended the teacher, it must be bad.

Drea, was it you that found it 'priceless' that the right is disagreeing among themselves? Watch and learn, my friend. On the right there is always room for difference of opinion. I believe the claws would come out if a known lefty came out in support of Bush. They certainly come out for the opinions of Michelle Malkin or Sean Hannity.

[Drew Bedson]

No doubt the kid has plenty of tapes and a willingness to share. The teacher has even decided not to sue the school board over the matter. If a liberal school board is so concerned about the matter that they have suspended the teacher, it must be bad.

I do believe that I mentioned earlier that this tape, if listned to has no 'US bad' ranting in it and, should actually be required listening for people who wish to confront the world with an open mind. I do also believe that if one was to make a case for what many are - where the teacher is being anti American and ranting, to pick a better example.

I'm sure that there are more indicative tapes as this one has nothing in it that is bad so, why the uproar? I only going by this particular one as I was instructed to at the beggining of the thread.

Drea, was it you that found it 'priceless' that the right is disagreeing among themselves? Watch and learn, my friend. On the right there is always room for difference of opinion. I believe the claws would come out if a known lefty came out in support of Bush.

As on the Left, some are correct simply by chance of position and not reasoning. They try to change facts in order to suit an argument rather than pick an opinion based on the facts presented.

The teacher made comparisons with Bush's state of the union remarks and things Hilter used to say.

What exactly did he say? Transcript

(refering to Bush's speech) He started off his speech talking about how America should be the country that dominates the world. That we have been blessed essentially by God to have the most civilized, most advanced, best system and that it is our duty as Americans to use the military to go out into the world and make the whole world like us.

0759.

Sounds a lot like the things that Adolf Hitler use to say.

We're the only ones who are right. Everyone else is backwards. And it's our job to conquer the world and make sure they live just like we want them to.

Now, I'm not saying that Bush and Hitler are exactly the same. Obviously, they are not. Ok. But there are some eerie similarities to the tones that they use. Very, very "ethnocentric." We're right. You're all wrong.

Now, did not Hitler say things like that in his speeches? How is a message like that which Bush sent out saying it was America's duty to change the world play out for other people across the planet? That is the questin Bennish is putting forth.

[Montgomery Burns]

Drew Bedson:

He started off his speech talking about how America should be the country that dominates the world. That we have been blessed essentially by God to have the most civilized, most advanced, best system and that it is our duty as Americans to use the military to go out into the world and make the whole world like us.

Talk about spin, or to be blunt, crap! Bush said no such thing. Jan 31/2006 SOTU address

[Montgomery Burns]

Sharkman:

Drea, was it you that found it 'priceless' that the right is disagreeing among themselves? Watch and learn, my friend. On the right there is always room for difference of opinion.

Exactly. But the collectivists on the left don't seem to understand that. They seem to march in lockstep and have a mindset where there is no room for differences of opinion; ideology appears to be everything to them.

Look at the number of leftists on MLW that were defending Islam and saying that Christianity is just as bad. How many Christian suicide bombers are there out there? I don't recall Christians beheading "infidels". There were no killings and rioting worldwide when Piss Christ and the elephant dung-covered Madonna were shown to the public.

They even defended Dear Leader when Clinton committed perjury, obstructed justice, and intimidated witnesses.

Some here tried to make a big deal out of Bill O'Reilly announcing that he felt that things weren't going well in Iraq. So what? He has cable news' #1 rated show and I am sure he has his fans, but he does not speak for the Republican Party or conservatives. And he is entitled to his opinion--he is a pundit. There are conservatives out there that feel the same as O'Reilly.

Conservatives tend to be individualists, they don't tend to march in lockstep, so sometimes they disagree with each other. I think that is A Good Thing™. Nothing wrong with healthy debate.

A few examples, including a Canadian one...

1) John McCain: Very popular with many conservatives. Also intensely disliked by many conservatives. Usually appears in the Top 3 in both "who would you like to be the 2008 nominee" and "who would you least like to be the 2008 nominee" in conservative polls.

2) Ann Coulter: Usually appears in the Top 10 for both "favorite columnist/pundit" and "least favorite columnist/pundit" in conservative polls.

3) Dubai Ports World deal: Hearty debate on the right about that topic. Both sides make some good points.

4) Emerson crossing over to the Conservatives from the Liberal Party. There was boisterous debate about that amongst conservatives. Again, both sides had some good arguments.

[Black Dog]

The most interesting thing I find here is that, for all some people's claims of intellectual diversity within the conservative movement, the teacher in question is instantly tagged a "liberal" because, well, we're not really sure why, other than the the fact he made some statements that could be interpreted as anti-Bush. In other words, the guy could be a libertarian, a communist or anything in between (we don't know) but, because he's not toeing the party line on the "War on Terror", he's instantly catagorized as a "liberal".

[tml12]

The most interesting thing I find here is that, for all some people's claims of intellectual diversity within the conservative movement, the teacher in question is instantly tagged a "liberal" because, well, we're not really sure why, other than the the fact he made some statements that could be interpreted as anti-Bush. In other words, the guy could be a libertarian, a communist or anything in between (we don't know) but, because he's not toeing the party line on the "War on Terror", he's instantly catagorized as a "liberal".

You're right Black Dog.

Doesn't make what he's teaching right.

[Riverwind]

Doesn't make what he's teaching right.

Well depends on who decides what he is 'teaching'. It is clear that right types have jumped on this case because it feeds the persecution complex that many seem to have. However, if you actually listen to the tape without ideological blinders you would hear a teacher challenging his students to question authority and not take what the politicians so for granted. IMV that kind of teaching is extremely good.

[sharkman]

Except for the fact that he characterized comments Bush made in his State of the Union speech as similar to what HITLER used to say. That is not 'challenging' your students to think for themselves. That is someone who can't hide their hate for Bush, and is offering the Hitler comment as a truth. Making Hitler comparisons is beyond stupid.

And this is only one tape. What's on all of the others? Remember, the Colorado school board involved has already supended him. Whether some people can process this or not, they are not investigating him for no reason.

[Black Dog]

Except for the fact that he characterized comments Bush made in his State of the Union speech as similar to what HITLER used to say. That is not 'challenging' your students to think for themselves. That is someone who can't hide their hate for Bush, and is offering the Hitler comment as a truth. Making Hitler comparisons is beyond stupid.

Except that he didn't.

"I'm not saying Bush and Hitler are exactly the same, obviously they're not. OK? But there are some eerie similarities to the tones that they use."

Now, some people seem to think that uttering the word Hitler is wrong, but if you're talking about government propaganda in war time, the Nazis wrote the book.

Remember, the Colorado school board involved has already supended him. Whether some people can process this or not, they are not investigating him for no reason.

This is America after all, where you are guilty until proven otherwise.

Oh wait...

[tml12]

Doesn't make what he's teaching right.

Well depends on who decides what he is 'teaching'. It is clear that right types have jumped on this case because it feeds the persecution complex that many seem to have. However, if you actually listen to the tape without ideological blinders you would hear a teacher challenging his students to question authority and not take what the politicians so for granted. IMV that kind of teaching is extremely good.

If all he was doing was teaching kids to challenge authority, that would be OK.

How can I listen to the tape without ideological blinders? The tape is of a speech that is, in and of itself, ideologically blinded against the right-wing.

[Drew Bedson]

I've thought about how to simplify what I believe wholeheartedly is going on here. If the teacher is a wingnit, which he might be, he cetainly didn't show it in this tape. What is there is him trying to show the students how America is viewed by the rest of the world. How their actions, which are, to us, benevolent and visionary construed by many to be evil and manipulating.

The War on Terror is not just a military fight. The ideas that Al Queda use to gain sympathizers for their cause and recruits has to be stamped out as well. Many of these fears the teacher touched upon by showing how the US can, and is percieved by those who do not perscribe to them being the 'best thing that ever happened.' To people like that, freedom is not understood, yet, are we to hate them for that and call them enemy?

It's like a war on crime. You don't go out and arrest people and call it a day. You have to also go to the root causes and fight there as well with ideas, social transformation and such. And, taking what Bennish is harping about, doing all that without giving the appearence of shoving it down their throats. Otherwise, you will never change the ideas they have entrenched.

To a middle easterner who is not western indoctrinated. Being told that he is going to have freedom and enjoy it because the USA is intent on spreading it to him even though he is raised to hate the infidels and particularily the USA is akin to something Hitler would have said. Bush is also as Bennish observed, not compared to Hitler by him but, to a person who is about to recieve Bush's benevolent side via invasion, he may as well be

Point is, this guy is opening eyes, and, from what I can tell, he's only getting kids to think. We are fighting a mind set that the enemy is using against us, gathering strength, recruits, funds and operating resources. Isn't it time we understood how the enemy turns people against us?

[Riverwind]

How can I listen to the tape without ideological blinders? The tape is of a speech that is, in and of itself, ideologically blinded against the right-wing.

What people seem to forget in this discussion is that Hitler was a master politician who used many tools and techniques to accomplish his objectives. Many of these tools are not evil in themselves but simply ways of influencing large numbers of people. There is nothing hateful about saying that the Bush regime uses similar methods to build support for its 'war on terror'.

That said, the best way to ruin a good debate is to bring up the word 'Hitler' because people automatically jump to the all or nothing conclusion that if 'X does some things like Hitler then X must be exactly like Hitler'. That is not what the teacher said or implied.

One last point to consider: why is expressing opposition to the Iraq war hateful?

[America1]

How can I listen to the tape without ideological blinders? The tape is of a speech that is, in and of itself, ideologically blinded against the right-wing.

What people seem to forget in this discussion is that Hitler was a master politician who used many tools and techniques to accomplish his objectives. Many of these tools are not evil in themselves but simply ways of influencing large numbers of people. There is nothing hateful about saying that the Bush regime uses similar methods to build support for its 'war on terror'.

That said, the best way to ruin a good debate is to bring up the word 'Hitler' because people automatically jump to the all or nothing conclusion that if 'X does some things like Hitler then X must be exactly like Hitler'. That is not what the teacher said or implied.

One last point to consider: why is expressing opposition to the Iraq war hateful?

You are out-of-your-damn-mind if you think this teacher was trying to showcase political tactics. He was ranting about the supposed "evils" of America and capitalism. This is nothing more than a liberal (communist) wacko spouting out to an audience held hostage. It had nothing, I REPEAT NOTHING to do with his class at the moment. To try and make excuses for this jackass shows exactly how far out there some of you are.

[Riverwind]

You are out-of-your-damn-mind if you think this teacher was trying to showcase political tactics. He was ranting about the supposed "evils" of America and capitalism.

I don't have the time to type out a transcript of everything that was said on the tape but clearly a transcript is needed because too many people are passing judgement on this guy without actually listening to what he said.

Most of his 'rant' was pointing out the hypocrasy in American foriegn policy over time - all of his examples were factually correct. Am I to conclude that the people who are upset about this teacher do not want high school students to be taught the truth?

He repeated numerous times that 'you [students] will have to make up your own mind'. He even went so far as to say that the 9-11 bombings were, in part, triggered by the actions of Bill Clinton (hardly something a Bush hater would do).

The guy obviously cared about the topics - you could hear it in his voice but he was extremely respectful of the student asking questions and gave reasonable answers to those questions. On the whole, I heard an excellent teacher providing some valuable insights for the students.

[margrace]

How can I listen to the tape without ideological blinders? The tape is of a speech that is, in and of itself, ideologically blinded against the right-wing.

What people seem to forget in this discussion is that Hitler was a master politician who used many tools and techniques to accomplish his objectives. Many of these tools are not evil in themselves but simply ways of influencing large numbers of people. There is nothing hateful about saying that the Bush regime uses similar methods to build support for its 'war on terror'.

That said, the best way to ruin a good debate is to bring up the word 'Hitler' because people automatically jump to the all or nothing conclusion that if 'X does some things like Hitler then X must be exactly like Hitler'. That is not what the teacher said or implied.

One last point to consider: why is expressing opposition to the Iraq war hateful?

You are out-of-your-damn-mind if you think this teacher was trying to showcase political tactics. He was ranting about the supposed "evils" of America and capitalism. This is nothing more than a liberal (communist) wacko spouting out to an audience held hostage. It had nothing, I REPEAT NOTHING to do with his class at the moment. To try and make excuses for this jackass shows exactly how far out there some of you are.

Did you actually listen to the tape???? And can you quote what he said that backs up what you are saying.?

[sharkman]

The teacher may be good or bad, but Hitler gets waaaay too much respect around here. I really don't get it, like he was simply misunderstood or something. Hitler had his good points? Ask the Gypsies and Jews and Christians and mentally handicapped how good he was. Ask the Poles and the French and the Russians what kind of a masterful politician he was. Ask Germans who lived in pre and post war Germany how they liked him.

Anyone who says, "I'm not saying Bush and Hitler are exactly the same, obviously they're not. OK? But there are some eerie similarities to the tones that they use.", is saying he thinks they are similar. Like I said, beyond stupid. What's on all of the other tapes? The school board disagrees with you, they suspended his ass.

Do any of you remember the case of a teacher here in B.C. who wrote several letters to the editor of the small paper in his town? I believe he talked about the gay issue in traditional terms, shall we say. He got suspended for one month without pay for it. And this was from the privacy of his own home. This teacher in the states is crossing a line. I don't know if he should be fired, I'd have to listen to the hours and hours of tape. But there are things you can't say, as a teacher, to your class. My wife is a teacher, and brother are there ever subjects that are actionable.

[America1]

How can I listen to the tape without ideological blinders? The tape is of a speech that is, in and of itself, ideologically blinded against the right-wing.

What people seem to forget in this discussion is that Hitler was a master politician who used many tools and techniques to accomplish his objectives. Many of these tools are not evil in themselves but simply ways of influencing large numbers of people. There is nothing hateful about saying that the Bush regime uses similar methods to build support for its 'war on terror'.

That said, the best way to ruin a good debate is to bring up the word 'Hitler' because people automatically jump to the all or nothing conclusion that if 'X does some things like Hitler then X must be exactly like Hitler'. That is not what the teacher said or implied.

One last point to consider: why is expressing opposition to the Iraq war hateful?

You are out-of-your-damn-mind if you think this teacher was trying to showcase political tactics. He was ranting about the supposed "evils" of America and capitalism. This is nothing more than a liberal (communist) wacko spouting out to an audience held hostage. It had nothing, I REPEAT NOTHING to do with his class at the moment. To try and make excuses for this jackass shows exactly how far out there some of you are.

Did you actually listen to the tape???? And can you quote what he said that backs up what you are saying.?

Yes, the whole tape. Yes I can. Can you?