White Supremacist

[Riverwind]

What made a group successful was the type of primitive weapon and strategy they developed to conquer their foe.

Agriculture is the most important technology that early humans had and access to useful plants and animals made the difference between a society that could make the switch to an productive agricultural economy and those that did not.

It is no co-incidence that all of the great civilizations rose where the key staple crops (wheat, rice, corn and potatos) grew naturally.

[Leafless]

Sparhawk

You wrote- " It is no co-incidence that all great civilizations rose where the key staple crops ( wheat, rice, corn, potatoes) grew naturally."

Wheat, rice, corn, potatoes?

What does this have to do with the race-cultural-domination factor that has existed since the cave man days.

If you ask me the root ingredient that makes a race successful is INITIATIVE along with the ability to pursue this in an organized and intelligent manner to develop methods and ways to dominate either in a peaceful or aggressive manner utilizing skills associated with science and technology.

This is what separates the men from the boys.

[Riverwind]

Wheat, rice, corn, potatoes?

What does this have to do with the race-cultural-domination factor that has existed since the cave man days.

Food is everything - without a reliable food supply no society can evolve beyond a primitive tribal existance.

All human beings have the capacity for initiative and innovation that you talk about but only those humans with access to critical resources will be able to do much with those abilities.

Most importantly, the drive to innovate is purely a cultural phenomena. Look at the case of China: the oldest civilization on earth that was the leader in technology until the 1500s. It fell behind the Europeans because of a cultural bias against a market economy (Confucian values placed merchants at the bottom of the social pyramid). China is now a rising power in the world because it has finally got over that cultural bias against free markets, however, it still has not figured out that democratic values and freedom of the press are also key cultural values of the successful western societies.

You cannot argue that the failure of China over the last 400 years was genetic because Chinese have demonstrated the ability to lead in the past and Chinese that adopt European values are very successful (look at Taiwan and Hong Kong).

[Leafless]

Sparhawk- You wrote- " All human beings have a capacity for iniative and innovation that you talk about but only those humans with access to critical resources will be able to do much with those abilities."

Are you suggesting since day one it was only the White race that had access to nutrients?

You also wrote- " You cannot argue the failure of China over the last 400 years was genetic because the Chinese have demonstrated the ability to lead in the past and Chinese that adapt European values are very successful (look at Taiwan and Hong Kong.)

If Taiwan and Hong Kong were so successful why did they have to resort to what you describe as European values and I also say U.S. (dynamic capitalist economy) and could not have achieved similar on their own?

[Riverwind]

Sparhawk- You wrote- " All human beings have a capacity for iniative and innovation that you talk about but only those humans with access to critical resources will be able to do much with those abilities."

Are you suggesting since day one it was only the White race that had access to nutrients?

Hardly, there are many successful non-white civilizations. Some collapsed because they destroyed their environment (something that could happen to our current civilization). Some were wiped out by disease. Many others still exist. There is no connection between race and civilization.

If Taiwan and Hong Kong were so successful why did they have to resort to what you describe as European values and I also say U.S. (dynamic capitalist economy) and could not have achieved similar on their own?

The transfer of knowledge is two way. Gunpowder and numerous other critical inventions came from China. The mathematical basis for western science was originally developed in Persia to solve mathematical problems created by the Quaran. Successful societies are those that are willing to learn from their neighbors (BTW - this is something the Japanese are masters at).

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear Leafless,

Cavemen for instance lived in groups and in the same environmnent but clashed with each other concerning a primitive power struggle to achieve dominance.

What made a group successful was the type of primitive weapon and strategy they developed to conquer their foe.

A country will not progress in areas of dominance if national interest are diverted to say love and dancing rather than science an technology.

Why the hang up with 'dominance'? Again, this is vintage Hitler. If you won't read Mein Kampf because you think is is 'hate literature', you should be aware that these are exactly the same arguments he made. He also espoused taking an active hand in asserting that dominance. Hitler claimed that the 'white (or Aryan) race' was the creator and bearer of 'culture' and that everyone else just borrowed from it (while claiming the Jews were parasites of it). Further, he claimed that it is the natural progression, and the right and duty of, the superior culture (race) to dominate the others. Then he proceeded to say how to do it.

Mein Kampf was written when Hitler was in prison, in about 1924, dictated to his fellow prisoner Rudolf Hess, and is is pretty much the benchmark of the logical progression of 'racial and cultural dominance theory', as long as you believe in same 'starting point'. It certainly seems that you do.

[Leafless]

theloniusfleabag

You wrote " Why the hangup with 'dominance' again? Again this is vintage Hitler."

Simply because this is what it is all about, power and dominance. Like I said it's been going on since the days of the caveman.

The U.S. is the POWER TO-DAY that basically controls the world Dominating it with capitalism and protects free countries.

Since the departure of Hitler and company we know of no other power or country that have tried to force major countries to live under their rule.

Are you actually as naive to think that no other country would attemp or would dominate the world in the event the U.S. ever ceased to be a super power?

You seem to bring up this Hitler thing all the time. Hitler was not the first to try to aggressively control countries or order genocide nor will he be the last.

[newbie]

BTW- An opinion is a belief or assessment based on grounds SHORT of PROOF.

So if you have proof to call me a racist ...Let's hear it!

racism = a form of discrimination based on race, especially the belief that one race is superior to another.

Your words:

So I gather you find it racist for White America to be concerned about cultural control by a race other than White in America?

Are you claiming that a certain race that makes very significant gains in scientific, technological and social areas should be void of any recogniton and should not stand out and be considered superior among other races?

If you should answer YES to any of the above, then you qualify as a racist. The internet is a huge resource and yet you pick a supremely racist site to answer my question or to form a new one?

[Leafless]

newbie

You wrote- " If you should answer yes to any of the above, then you qualify as a racist. the internet is a huge resource and yet you pick a supremely racist site to answer my question or form a new one."

My dictionary quotes racism as - " A belief in the superiority of a particular race; prejudice based on this."

And I said- " So I gather you find it racist for White America to be concerned about cultural control other than White in America."

This is not advocating superiority but rather concern regarding the adverse direction a country could be driven by a race other than White that could be seen as destructive or eroding the values and system the country was built on by a primarily White population.

The fact is the country was built by a primarily or what could be considered a primarily White population nor primarily Black, nor primarily yellow or anything else.

And I also said- " Are you claiming that a certain race that makes very significant gains, technological and social areas should be void of any recogniton and should not stand out and be considered superior among other races."

As compared to other races in our immediate time frame in history I would absolutely say the White race stands out as superior and advanced among other races and anyone that denies this fact is NOT giving credit to where it is deserved.

You wanted to what the KKK stands for and I quoted you a link right from the horses mouth. If you don't it newbie -to bad. Post your own definiton of the KKK from your own source and be happy but don't call me a racist.

What you don't understand is that I am offering only an opinion and not passing a judgement and am not personally discriminating against anyone.

The dictionary definiton of racism leaves a lot to be desired.

[Concerned]

Wheat, rice, corn, potatoes?

What does this have to do with the race-cultural-domination factor that has existed since the cave man days.

Food is everything - without a reliable food supply no society can evolve beyond a primitive tribal existance.

All human beings have the capacity for initiative and innovation that you talk about but only those humans with access to critical resources will be able to do much with those abilities.

Most importantly, the drive to innovate is purely a cultural phenomena. Look at the case of China: the oldest civilization on earth that was the leader in technology until the 1500s. It fell behind the Europeans because of a cultural bias against a market economy (Confucian values placed merchants at the bottom of the social pyramid). China is now a rising power in the world because it has finally got over that cultural bias against free markets, however, it still has not figured out that democratic values and freedom of the press are also key cultural values of the successful western societies.

You cannot argue that the failure of China over the last 400 years was genetic because Chinese have demonstrated the ability to lead in the past and Chinese that adopt European values are very successful (look at Taiwan and Hong Kong).

This is a really good example because if you look at Chinese people living in the same society as us, you can see that they are very successful, innovative and demonstrate iniative just as well as white people do here...

Black people in the US have been oppressed since they arrived in North America, racism held them down, and racism keeps them down. They are a generally uneducated population and they are victoms of the cycle of poverty that got them there in the first place. Given equal chances in equal environments to white people, they can be and are just as successful. And Betsy, crime is high anywhere that the population is uneducated and poor. It has nothing to do with being black or white.

So I agree with Sparhawk, it all started somewhere, and some of us were better off to begin with than others, largely because of environment, which doesn't mean we are supreme in any way. If we give others the chance, they will be equal to us in our successes in life. It is attitudes like Leafless that promote ongoing societal problems. He is not promoting culture, there is no true white culture. Culture has to do with heritage, not colour of skin.

[Leafless]

Concerned

You wrote- " If we give others the chance they will be equal to us in our successes in life."

NO DOUBT!

Any culture or race if fast tracked on the backs of a successful culture or race will eventually or fairly quickly be equal to that successful culture or race but at their expense.

But this is not the point.

It is initially developing that successful society is what we are talking about and loosley speaking it was the White race (not fully homogenous) but what is accepted as White that succeeded and they are not getting credit for that feat.

You also wrote- " And some of us were better off to begin with than others, largely because of enviroment which doesn't mean we are supreme in any way."

What enviroment?? What time frame are you talking about???

[Riverwind]

It is initially developing that successful society is what we are talking about and loosley speaking it was the White race (not fully homogenous) but what is accepted as White that succeeded and they are not getting credit for that feat.

This statement is completely false. The first mass society societies to emerge were in Egypt, Sumer (Iraq), China and in India. The societies made all of the initial discoveries which 'white' Europeans later borrowed. The Roman Empire - the most successful of ancient 'white' societies borrowed heavily from the more advanced cultures they fought in the middle east. However, even with that borrowing the Romans were not able to come up with a useful number system. Europeans later borrowed that from the Persians - without the Persian number system there would be no 'western' science.

In the 1300s, while Europe was nothing but a muddle of feudal states, China was the unrivalled economic, technological and cultural leader in the world. Gunpowder - an invention critical to European empires later - was invented by the Chinese.

The are many other examples that all show the same thing: all cultures and societies in world are interconnected and borrowed heavily from each other. No single society deserves all of the credit for the world we have today.

[theloniusfleabag]

The 'White Race' is pretty much the only one to not only develop, but thrust forward as the only belief for everyone, the notion that; "Whatever I have, it is not enough".

[Leafless]

theloniusfleabag

You wrote- " The "White Race" is pretty much the only one not to develop, but thrust forward as the only belief for everyone, the notion that " Whatever I have is not enough."

This is pure contempt for the White Race, democracy and capitalism that has helped many countries who want to help themselves be part of the only system to date that works for most nations.

I can't help but wonder whay your doing in a country that is so much against your principles?

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear Leafless,

I can't help but wonder whay your doing in a country that is so much against your principles?

Born here.

This is pure contempt for the White Race, democracy and capitalism

It has nothing to do with democracy, and yes I have contempt for capitalism. Not utterly, but I would dread capitalism in it's pure form, as it closely resembles anarchy. And yes, I have contempt for 'colour'. I believe in none.

[Leafless]

theloniusfleabag

You wrote- " It has nothing to do with democracy"

Democracy is the process by which we get ourselves organized to perform capitalism.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear Leafless,

Democracy is the process by which we get ourselves organized to perform capitalism.

Not exactly. Democracy is a system of government, and by extension, law. Which is, ultimately, the 'dispenser of rights' that you or I would have, no matter what economic system you have. In a democratic system, the 'will of the majority' decides what 'rights' everyone should or should not have.

In theory, capitalism can exist in any system, but it's 'natural state' is anarchy, because any 'law' fetters decision-making to some degree.

[Leafless]

theloniusfleabag

You wrote-" In theory capitalism can exist in any system, but in it's 'natural state' is anarchy, because any 'law' fetters decission making to some degree."

Our version of democracy is the ONLY system when combined with capitalism allows EVERYONE or ANYONE to freely 'shoot for the top' in any area pertaining to buisness, proffessional occupations, medicine etc.

So the bottom line is we are developed and implemented this proven system that works for most whether you think so or not.

As a matter of fact it works so well we could actually be over developed supplying the initiative for new inventions, products etc. on a continual basis to share the pot with all who wish to participate.

This could be why you have contempt for it as it is a massive successful system that uses a hell of a lot of resources.

[Riverwind]

So the bottom line is we are developed and implemented this proven system that works for most whether you think so or not.

Your mythical 'white' race did not invent democracy: they learned it from India:

The earlist forms of democracy were used by republics in ancient India, which were established sometime before the 6th century BC, and prior to the birth of Buddha. [1] These republics were known as Maha Janapadas, and among these states, Vaishali (in what is now Bihar, India) was the world's first republic. Later during the time of Alexander the Great in the 4th century BC, the Greeks wrote about the Sabarcae and Sambastai states in what is now Pakistan and Afghanistan, whose "form of government was democratic and not regal" according to Greek scholars at the time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy#History_of_democracy

Capitalism is the 'natural' form of human economy. Most human economic activity from the earliest hunter gatherer days was a form of capitalism - even the most primitive cultures had the concept of money (i.e. a standard unit of exchange) which is evidence of a capitalist economy.

In other words, the 'white' race does not really deserve credit for capitalism either.

Europeans owe their success today to the massive infusions of wealth generated by the conquest of the Americas - a job made easy by disease that wiped out 90% of the indigenous populations - not due to ingenuity by earlier European settlers.

[BubberMiley]

Europeans owe their success today to the massive infusions of wealth generated by the conquest of the Americas - a job made easy by disease that wiped out 90% of the indigenous populations - not due to ingenuity by earlier European settlers.

Well, there was some ingenuity there because, though there was a smallpox epidemic, a lot of that wipeout was by genocide.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear Sparhawk,

Europeans owe their success today to the massive infusions of wealth generated by the conquest of the Americas - a job made easy by disease that wiped out 90% of the indigenous populations - not due to ingenuity by earlier European settlers.

Yes but...(forgive me, it is so rare that I get to use this joke...)the descendents of the Europeans are still paying the descendents of the indigenous populations their "Injun-nuity".

[Leafless]

Sparhawk

You wrote- " Your mytical 'White' race did not invent democracy: They learned it from India.

Oh yes India the SUPERPOWER.

Mythical White race- http://www.stormfront.org/whitehistory/

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear Leafless,

From your link...which is, incidentally, a 'white supremacist 'hate site'..

Most importantly of all, revealed in this work is the one true cause of the rise and fall of the world's greatest empires - that all civilizations rise and fall according to their racial homogeneity and nothing else - a nation can survive wars, defeats, natural catastrophes, but not racial dissolution.

So, what are your views on the 'mixing of races'?

[Leafless]

theloniusfleabag

You wrote- " So what are your views on the 'mixing of the races'."

I notice you are quick to define hate and supremacy when it is associated with the White race but have no problem with Sparhawks assertions.

It sems to me that it is basically the 'White' countries are the host to large numbers of races other than White and most if these countries implement some kind of mutlcultural policies.

But what do these other non-White countries offer to accomodate White immigration? Not much in my estimation.

I would say there is a bias against Whites in most non-White countries concerning permanent residence.

When non-White immigrants immigrate to White countries is this bias part of there racial baggage as well as in many cases their politcal baggage?

Racial integration along with the sheding of all bias associated with imported culture is absolutely necessary concerning the success of a functional multicultural country where the primary race is White or in their country where the reverse is true.

In our family we have two marriages involving other cultures and both ended in divorce due to unsolveable cultural problems both prompted by anti-white cultural traditons and hate.

There are many other problems such as neighbourhoods and schools when they become dominated by a foreign culture, then others are considered the sub-culture and discriminated against.

I notice both you despite being born here and Sparhawk posess anti-White sentiments.

On the surface in a modern country like the U.S. and Canada you would assume integration would not be problamatic but is.

This strikes me that until all countries in the world shed their cultural bias there will never be cultural harmony and since it is human nature to compete the weak link will always be cultural discrimination because no one likes to loose.

[Riverwind]

I notice you are quick to define hate and supremacy when it is associated with the White race but have no problem with Sparhawks assertions.

I am simply pointing out that your so-called evidence of white supremacy is bunk. My opinion is race is irrelevant - culture is what makes the difference and that the society when have today includes contributions from many cultures with many races. BTW - People living in the Indian subcontinent are technically 'Caucasian' as far as biologists are concerned.

In our family we have two marriages involving other cultures and both ended in divorce due to unsolvable cultural problems both prompted by anti-white cultural traditions and hate.

I fail to see the relationship between 'white' and culture. Cultural differences are real but culture is learned - it is not related to race. BTW, in my family the mixed races marriage are the ones that have stayed together - all of the marriages between two whites have ended in divorces. So your anecdotal evidence is proof pf nothing.

This strikes me that until all countries in the world shed their cultural bias there will never be cultural harmony and since it is human nature to compete the weak link will always be cultural discrimination because no one likes to loose.

You have to stop mixing up race and culture. There is no connection between the two. I am sure you would have more in common with 3rd generation Chinese-Canadians than with the recent white Muslim immigrants.