Ain't Democracy wonderful

newbie · February 23, 2006

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...?hub=TopStories

Kinda reminds one of Vietnam and Somilia - that's what happens when you get involved in a country's politics. These factions have been fighting for eons. I don't think a little demockcracksy and purple fingers are gonna change this country overnite like Bush thought.

Black Dog · February 23, 2006

Discussion kinda sorta happening here. .

newbie · February 24, 2006

Sorry BD, must have missed that.

Biblio Bibuli · February 24, 2006

Discussion kinda sorta happening here. .

Sorry BD, must have missed that.

Why are you apologizing, Newbie? Because you didn't check a year old thread?

I'm puzzled.

crazymf · February 24, 2006

I think a civil war is a good deal in Iraq right now because you know who's going to get their peepee slapped don't you? That's right, the Sunnis, the leftovers from the Saddamites, the minority, the arseholes of society in Iraq, the one time oppressors. I may be biased a bit, but all the Americans have to do is go hide on base for a while and watch the fireworks go. At the end of it all, the Sunnis will have been put down like the dogs they are and the country can get back on track and work for peace.

My 2c opinion.

Riverwind · February 24, 2006

At the end of it all, the Sunnis will have been put down like the dogs they are and the country can get back on track and work for peace.

In the meantime the Kurds decide they want none of that nonsense and try to create their own country with all of the oil reserves in the north which in turn causes Turkey to freak out....

geoffrey · February 24, 2006

I think a civil war is a good deal in Iraq right now because you know who's going to get their peepee slapped don't you? That's right, the Sunnis, the leftovers from the Saddamites, the minority, the arseholes of society in Iraq, the one time oppressors. I may be biased a bit, but all the Americans have to do is go hide on base for a while and watch the fireworks go. At the end of it all, the Sunnis will have been put down like the dogs they are and the country can get back on track and work for peace.
My 2c opinion.

Two wrongs don't make a right... personally I'm starting lean towards the 3 seperate countries model... even if its failed in the past.

betsy · February 24, 2006

I'm beginning to think that there's no use trying to help these countries attain democracy. They don't want the kind of democracy we enjoy in the west...the few who do won't be able to change this unless they do something about it themselves.

Maybe US ought to pull out asap...and just protect their interest from afar (that includes protecting Israel).

Right now I'm either frustrated or angry....that my frame of mind is on the notion that if any of these barbaric countries ever ATTEMPT to hit any other civilized countries...then USA should just do us all a favor and do what has to be done.

scribblet · February 24, 2006

I'm beginning to think that there's no use trying to help these countries attain democracy. They don't want the kind of democracy we enjoy in the west...the few who do won't be able to change this unless they do something about it themselves.
Maybe US ought to pull out asap...and just protect their interest from afar (that includes protecting Israel).

Right now I'm either frustrated or angry....that my frame of mind is on the notion that if any of these barbaric countries ever ATTEMPT to hit any other civilized countries...then USA should just do us all a favor and do what has to be done.

I'm beginning to feel that way too, why bother trying to help them. Maybe we (western world) should just pull out, cut off most foreign aid, and leave them all to go at it. I suppose, genocide aside, the only way that order can be maintained is by a dictatorship, preferably benign. Absolutely no aid to 'Palestine' is a good start, or any other country which supports or exports terrorism.

crazymf · February 24, 2006

I think a civil war is a good deal in Iraq right now because you know who's going to get their peepee slapped don't you? That's right, the Sunnis, the leftovers from the Saddamites, the minority, the arseholes of society in Iraq, the one time oppressors. I may be biased a bit, but all the Americans have to do is go hide on base for a while and watch the fireworks go. At the end of it all, the Sunnis will have been put down like the dogs they are and the country can get back on track and work for peace.

My 2c opinion.

Two wrongs don't make a right... personally I'm starting lean towards the 3 seperate countries model... even if its failed in the past.

My point is that the USA stirred the pot, justifiably, and now in the swirl of things, they can sit back and watch it settle back down by itself. If they don't like what becomes of it, stir it again, and again, and again. The USA is holding all the cards because they're already there.

Black Dog · February 24, 2006

I think a civil war is a good deal in Iraq right now because you know who's going to get their peepee slapped don't you? That's right, the Sunnis, the leftovers from the Saddamites, the minority, the arseholes of society in Iraq, the one time oppressors. I may be biased a bit, but all the Americans have to do is go hide on base for a while and watch the fireworks go. At the end of it all, the Sunnis will have been put down like the dogs they are and the country can get back on track and work for peace.
My 2c opinion.

The U.S. doesn't have much choice but to sit this one out. For one, they have been unable to quell the violence when it was simply a localized insurgency: what could they do to stop a civil war? They certainly can't intervene on behalf of one side against another. But neither can they stand idly by and let the factions massacre each other, as that would demonstrate for all what is already apparent to many: that the U.S. interventon in Iraq has been a failure. And hell even if your scenario above unfolded as such, you know who teh big winner would be, right? I-r-a-n.

Liam · February 24, 2006

I'm beginning to think that there's no use trying to help these countries attain democracy. They don't want the kind of democracy we enjoy in the west...the few who do won't be able to change this unless they do something about it themselves.
Maybe US ought to pull out asap...and just protect their interest from afar (that includes protecting Israel).

Right now I'm either frustrated or angry....that my frame of mind is on the notion that if any of these barbaric countries ever ATTEMPT to hit any other civilized countries...then USA should just do us all a favor and do what has to be done.

The problem rests largely with the West, actually. In our need for natural resources (oil, mineral wealth, etc.), we've favored dictators, strongmen, and royal families who see every political movement within their borders as a threat. These dictators jailed free thinkers, dissidents, educators, and political mavericks, leaving a vaccuum that could only be filled with the one entity the dictators dare not challenge: the religious establishment. The Islamic mullahs have become the only "opposition" to the establishment. When we go marching into the Middle East demanding democracy, the only choice voters have is to go with their oppressor or someone new. This is exactly what happened in the Palestinian Authority. People didn't vote for Hamas as much as they voted against Fatah.

Our quest for democracy in the Middle East is fifty years too soon. We should be putting our efforts into developing viable secular and economic alternatives to the status quo in the Middle East. Only when there is a viable alternative to the existing power structure can we expect more western-style democracies in the region.

geoffrey · February 27, 2006

I'm beginning to think that there's no use trying to help these countries attain democracy. They don't want the kind of democracy we enjoy in the west...the few who do won't be able to change this unless they do something about it themselves.

Maybe US ought to pull out asap...and just protect their interest from afar (that includes protecting Israel).

Right now I'm either frustrated or angry....that my frame of mind is on the notion that if any of these barbaric countries ever ATTEMPT to hit any other civilized countries...then USA should just do us all a favor and do what has to be done.

I'm beginning to feel that way too, why bother trying to help them. Maybe we (western world) should just pull out, cut off most foreign aid, and leave them all to go at it. I suppose, genocide aside, the only way that order can be maintained is by a dictatorship, preferably benign. Absolutely no aid to 'Palestine' is a good start, or any other country which supports or exports terrorism.

I still feel obligated to help out these guys. Only with freedom and basic human rights can they grow and prosper as a society. Lets get them some democracy, split up the countries along ethnic lines (ie. European peace style, or at least an attempt) and let them have at it. No one wants to be ruled by another group, people will only be happy when they are masters in their own house. Let them have that.