Massive Disappointment from Me

[kimmy]

Forgot to add: I found the difference between the *handling* of the two defections striking.

When Stronach crossed the floor, they went to such effort to spin us this little drama of the sequence of events. They went to such pains to try to sell us a version of events that didn't make Stronach look like an opportunist and didn't make Martin look like a desperate man, and to try to gain additional political mileage by making Harper look mean-spirited and the party look uninclusive.

Yesterday, Harper's explanation was more or less "I've always thought David Emerson was a good guy, and I wanted a representative from Vancouver in my Cabinet, so I called him and offered him a Cabinet post and he accepted."

Without going into any debate about whether the Stronach and Emerson cases are any different, I will just mention that I found Harper's explanation to be more straightforward, more blunt, more credible. The Liberal spin of Belinda.ca's defection was so self-serving that it practically begged for skepticism. I think Harper handled it much better and that might be one reason why he's not getting as tough a ride over this as Martin and Stronach did.

-k

[geoffrey]

Forgot to add: I found the difference between the *handling* of the two defections striking.

When Stronach crossed the floor, they went to such effort to spin us this little drama of the sequence of events. They went to such pains to try to sell us a version of events that didn't make Stronach look like an opportunist and didn't make Martin look like a desperate man, and to try to gain additional political mileage by making Harper look mean-spirited and the party look uninclusive.

Yesterday, Harper's explanation was more or less "I've always thought David Emerson was a good guy, and I wanted a representative from Vancouver in my Cabinet, so I called him and offered him a Cabinet post and he accepted."

Without going into any debate about whether the Stronach and Emerson cases are any different, I will just mention that I found Harper's explanation to be more straightforward, more blunt, more credible. The Liberal spin of Belinda.ca's defection was so self-serving that it practically begged for skepticism. I think Harper handled it much better and that might be one reason why he's not getting as tough a ride over this as Martin and Stronach did.

-k

We did have the reverse spin going, showing the devastated Peter with his dog digging in the potato patch.

I haven't seen any video of Landslide Annie all upset yet.

Actually it looks like no one is upset.

[lonewolf]

I didn't vote Liberal, but I am even happier that I didn't vote Conservative. I voted for the ind. candidate.....

I know a new name for the PM: Harpercrit......just like them alll

[munsinger]

Well....

Mulroney was going to govern with high ethical standards

Chretien was going to restore accountibility

Martin was going to address the "democratic deficit"

Harper was going to address the "culture of entitlement" etc.

I got over my outrage..... about floor jumpers...sometime after Jack Horner crossed the floor to become a Trudeau Cabinet Minister

[Hicksey]

Might the defection be a means to an end? Could it be that Emerson thought he may have a better chance to solve the softwood lumber dispute under a PM that is friendlier to the US? Could it be that the meeting between them was borne from Harper wanting to get it solved before the next election so he can make inroads into Vancouver?

Here's a quote from an obvious right wing blog. Take it for what you will. I just thought the concept was interesting.

Given Emerson's business background in the lumber industry and his focus (and continued focus in the new cabinet) on one issue, the softwood lumber dispute, I think a fair number of people would stay, more than usual is this sort of situation. They are committed to solving this problem for BC's lumber producers, and staying with Emerson means they can continue their work. From their point of view, they aren't working for Stephen Harper, as such, but for the people of British Columbia, especially those whose livelihood is tied to softwood lumber. If Stephen Harper is willing to give David Emerson the ability to continue his work on this file, why leave?

Indeed, if the relationship with the United States thaws as a result of Stephen Harper becoming prime minister, the chances that this dispute might finally be resolved might have improved significantly. For people committed to solving this problem, Emerson's crossing the floor is a shock, but a happy one.

How many of Emerson's people cringed when Paul Martin played the anti-American card during the election? Each one thinking that none of this helps Emerson reach some sort of modus vivendi with the US. Perhaps this is one of the reasons Emerson crossed the floor. Maybe he realized that his efforts were being undercut by his own party.

I can think of worse reasons to cross the floor than to complete the work you have started, and to reach a goal you firmly believe is attainable and that would benefit the people you represent.

[Kincora]

Well, from your friendly neighbourhood Conservative Party member, I am extremely disappointed in some things Harper did in Cabinet selection.

Giving a high profile job to Emerson after crossing the floor is a joke, Harper said he would work to prevent things like this from happening after Belinda, but look at this. How stupid of him, I highly disapprove.

Fortnier getting a spot though he's unelected. Hopefully Harper doesn't put him in the Senate, if he seeks a by-election then ok. Senate appointment to Fortnier and I won't be voting CPC next election.

Diane Ablonczy didn't get a spot. She deserved it. I bet Emerson took her job.

Rona Ambrose got environment? She deserved more than that, plus not really playing to her strengths.

Bernier got the big posting out of the Quebecois. I thought it would be, and should have been Cannon.

Stockwell got Public Safety? He'll ride around on his jetski protecting us.

Peter got Foreign Affairs so he's not around to annoy Harper. Should have been in Justice realistically, but instead we have Vic Toews who even I think is scary on Justice.

Those are all my complaints. The rest is somewhat acceptable. Still extremely disappointed in Harper for giving Emerson a spot.

Geoff, I totally agreewith you on Emerson. If there was anything I was excited about concerning the Conservative minority, it was that they'd be able to work onthe general air of corruption and scandal that has mired the country.

While there isn't anything wrong with what he did, persay, he already has broken two promises. One was not to appoint any non-elected cabinet members, and another was to appoint only elected senators.

After all the accusations flung by him at Scott Brison and Belinda Stronach, he freely admits that he approached Emerson with a promised cabinet position...

I'm baffled...

[tml12]

Well, from your friendly neighbourhood Conservative Party member, I am extremely disappointed in some things Harper did in Cabinet selection.

Giving a high profile job to Emerson after crossing the floor is a joke, Harper said he would work to prevent things like this from happening after Belinda, but look at this. How stupid of him, I highly disapprove.

Fortnier getting a spot though he's unelected. Hopefully Harper doesn't put him in the Senate, if he seeks a by-election then ok. Senate appointment to Fortnier and I won't be voting CPC next election.

Diane Ablonczy didn't get a spot. She deserved it. I bet Emerson took her job.

Rona Ambrose got environment? She deserved more than that, plus not really playing to her strengths.

Bernier got the big posting out of the Quebecois. I thought it would be, and should have been Cannon.

Stockwell got Public Safety? He'll ride around on his jetski protecting us.

Peter got Foreign Affairs so he's not around to annoy Harper. Should have been in Justice realistically, but instead we have Vic Toews who even I think is scary on Justice.

Those are all my complaints. The rest is somewhat acceptable. Still extremely disappointed in Harper for giving Emerson a spot.

Geoff, I totally agreewith you on Emerson. If there was anything I was excited about concerning the Conservative minority, it was that they'd be able to work onthe general air of corruption and scandal that has mired the country.

While there isn't anything wrong with what he did, persay, he already has broken two promises. One was not to appoint any non-elected cabinet members, and another was to appoint only elected senators.

After all the accusations flung by him at Scott Brison and Belinda Stronach, he freely admits that he approached Emerson with a promised cabinet position...

I'm baffled...

Again, if this is the worst the guy does he still gets my vote in the next election...

[Kincora]

Well, from your friendly neighbourhood Conservative Party member, I am extremely disappointed in some things Harper did in Cabinet selection.

Giving a high profile job to Emerson after crossing the floor is a joke, Harper said he would work to prevent things like this from happening after Belinda, but look at this. How stupid of him, I highly disapprove.

Fortnier getting a spot though he's unelected. Hopefully Harper doesn't put him in the Senate, if he seeks a by-election then ok. Senate appointment to Fortnier and I won't be voting CPC next election.

Diane Ablonczy didn't get a spot. She deserved it. I bet Emerson took her job.

Rona Ambrose got environment? She deserved more than that, plus not really playing to her strengths.

Bernier got the big posting out of the Quebecois. I thought it would be, and should have been Cannon.

Stockwell got Public Safety? He'll ride around on his jetski protecting us.

Peter got Foreign Affairs so he's not around to annoy Harper. Should have been in Justice realistically, but instead we have Vic Toews who even I think is scary on Justice.

Those are all my complaints. The rest is somewhat acceptable. Still extremely disappointed in Harper for giving Emerson a spot.

Geoff, I totally agreewith you on Emerson. If there was anything I was excited about concerning the Conservative minority, it was that they'd be able to work onthe general air of corruption and scandal that has mired the country.

While there isn't anything wrong with what he did, persay, he already has broken two promises. One was not to appoint any non-elected cabinet members, and another was to appoint only elected senators.

After all the accusations flung by him at Scott Brison and Belinda Stronach, he freely admits that he approached Emerson with a promised cabinet position...

I'm baffled...

Again, if this is the worst the guy does he still gets my vote in the next election...

Keeing things in context, yes, it is small peas.

Let's just say it isn't a strong start.

[tml12]

No but if Harper can't get enough support around Vancouver, the GTA, and the island of Montreal, then it won't be a strong majority.

[shoop]

Exactly.

Joe Clark attempted to govern as if he had a majority and failed miserably as a result.

Harper realizes he doesn't have a majority, but is taking steps to ensure that he wins one in 2008.

No but if Harper can't get enough support around Vancouver, the GTA, and the island of Montreal, then it won't be a strong majority.

[Hicksey]

Keeing things in context, yes, it is small peas.

Let's just say it isn't a strong start.

That it is. Let hope its all up from here. Although day one has us all wondering if that will be the case.

[tml12]

Keeing things in context, yes, it is small peas.

Let's just say it isn't a strong start.

That it is. Let hope its all up from here. Although day one has us all wondering if that will be the case.

Only time will tell but I doubt it...Harper is no fool.

[shoop]

Remember the most controversial thing in the campaign was stating that he would allow a free vote on SSM. He got it out there right away and it faded from the headlines. Could be the same tactic for this announcement as well...

That it is. Let hope its all up from here. Although day one has us all wondering if that will be the case.

[Hicksey]

I said it elsewhere, but I'll repeat it here. I think he's banking on Emerson solving the softwood lumber dispute. Maybe its part of his master plan to get a majority next time around.

Remember the most controversial thing in the campaign was stating that he would allow a free vote on SSM. He got it out there right away and it faded from the headlines. Could be the same tactic for this announcement as well...

That it is. Let hope its all up from here. Although day one has us all wondering if that will be the case.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Let hope its all up from here. Although day one has us all wondering if that will be the case.

Only time will tell but I doubt it...Harper is no fool.

I don't think he is either, but as frustrated as Canadians are with all the political shenanigns in Ottawa, he'd better have a solid gold rabbit under that hat.

[newbie]

Remember the most controversial thing in the campaign was stating that he would allow a free vote on SSM. He got it out there right away and it faded from the headlines. Could be the same tactic for this announcement as well...

Yeah, like ditch the moral and high ground right away.

[I Miss Trudeau]

The cons have done quite a bit of long term damage within the first week of forming the government. Just today, Emerson's staff outright lied to reporters today. Reporters were told that he was in his office preparing to make an announcement, and he somehow sneaked past them all and got himself into a traffic jam. The Cons will have successfully turned all of the media against them in the first week. I'm loving it.

[scribblet]

The cons have done quite a bit of long term damage within the first week of forming the government. Just today, Emerson's staff outright lied to reporters today. Reporters were told that he was in his office preparing to make an announcement, and he somehow sneaked past them all and got himself into a traffic jam. The Cons will have successfully turned all of the media against them in the first week. I'm loving it.

Maybe not.

You know Emerson is an old Socred and from the Conservative wing of BC's Social Credit Party. He was the architect of Bill Bennett's restraint program that was essential for BC but viewed by many as hard right-wing policy. He is probably one of the best connected citizens in BC as far as industry and international trade is concerned so he will be a great asset to the CPC caucus, our government and our country.

He is well regarded by the business community and could have been a serious thorn in the CPC side in opposition. Its better he is on our team now team now and am confident that he will do a very good job for the CPC.

BC should be pleased that pleased that Emerson will be teaming up with Gary Lunn, the new Natural

Resources Minister. Together, the two of them will provide powerful leadership for BC. There is a lot of potential for BC with the Gateway Project and David Emerson is the man to drive the program forward. So even though I'm disappointed at this crossing the floor business, it is better for the CPC and for BC at least in the long run.

[shoop]

If you believe IMT then missing the press conference was another terrible mistake.

However, IMT appears to be a little short on the truth. Yet again. *Must you really emulate your namesake?*

No word on any media site about Emerson being in his office. The CBC.ca story doesn't even mention the missed conference call.

Here is what CTV.ca said.

Since then, Emerson has kept a low profile on the softwood issue, avoiding the media and at the last minute canceling out of a scheduled phone conference with reporters Thursday afternoon.

Must you lie about this issue IMT? It is pretty sad when you are lying as a way of making points when hammering an opponent about integrity. People see through those tactics and that is why you lost the election.

[Kincora]

Because he used the power in ways I don't agree with.

Bloated government bureaucracies, soaring deficits and debt.

He rammed through the flawed and inadequate Constitution Act 1982 just to create a legacy for himself.

He never, ever tried to govern all of Canada. Never even cared to reach out to Canadians west of Ontario...

If I'm not mistaken, you were the one that lectured at great length earlier about how power is more important than ethics or principle. Given that, I'm kind of wondering why you don't idolize this imaginary Trudeau that you love to hate so much.

You are probably right, or at least part right about Trudeau wanting to create a legacy for himself. But, if you're going to be fair, you have to accuse MUlroney of the same thing with Meech Lake.

The entire premise of Meech lake was to make Constitutional peace with Quebec for the failures of the 1982 amendment. Fair enough, but why does peace have to be made if no war is raging? before Mulroney came to power and began raising the issue, the separatist movement was ebbing in Quebec. Support was at an all -time low since they came roaring into power.

The result of Meech Lake? 1995 referendum that came within a % of permanently dividing the country. If not physically ( obviously the federal governmet would have done all in it's power to stamp out any physical attempt to separate) , then in spirit.

[shoop]

So to be fair, you pick out one of the five points I faulted Trudeau for.

Then you compare it to Meech Lake/the Charlottetown Accord, which *almost* passed.

Charlottetown failed because Mulroney left it up to the people to make the final decision. If Trudeau had the balls to do that with Constitution Act 1982 it definitely would have failed.

Hmmm, gotta prefer Mulroney over Trudeau still. To be fair.

I am assuming you agree with me on the other four issues I had with Trudeau.

You are probably right, or at least part right about Trudeau wanting to create a legacy for himself. But, if you're going to be fair, you have to accuse MUlroney of the same thing with Meech Lake.

The entire premise of Meech lake was to make Constitutional peace with Quebec for the failures of the 1982 amendment. Fair enough, but why does peace have to be made if no war is raging? before Mulroney came to power and began raising the issue, the separatist movement was ebbing in Quebec. Support was at an all -time low since they came roaring into power.

The result of Meech Lake? 1995 referendum that came within a % of permanently dividing the country. If not physically ( obviously the federal governmet would have done all in it's power to stamp out any physical attempt to separate) , then in spirit.