"Hit the Road" Jack!

[na85]

Then I asked him the question again and he started stuttering and walked away. The left has always been about rhetoric and myths but I bet 90% of them wouldn't pick up a gun and defend this country.

Although I think that was out the window when you generalized 90% of Canadians with leftist views as not willing to defend themselves.

I have to agree with Hollus on this one. Just because I'm a liberal doesn't mean I wouldn't enlist if we got invaded. It's easy to generalize that sort of thing during peace times (no, the "war on terror" doesn't count). If WW3 actually broke out, I think you'd see far more than 10% of the left enlisting. A war to defend our freedom should rise above political infighting and stereotypes. To do anything otherwise would be childish.

[geoffrey]

Is that all that matters to you, "tax cuts"?

These people with good jobs who vote NDP do so for a variety of reasons. They're not one-issue voters, as you appear to be.

What reasons? More handouts and social revolution? Oh yes. Thats it, thats all.

I'll take my tax cuts.

[Hicksey]

No, what it is is that we can see past the 'hate the rich because you're not one of them' message of Layton. If I'm a worker in that Oshawa plant that makes those Cadillacs, I am glad when people in the income range that buy cadillacs get a tax cut. That way they have the money to replace their Caddie with another one. Otherwise my job is in danger. I may wish that I was that guy too, but I don't resent him because he keeps me working at that wage level.

If there was a strawman manufacturing plant, you'd be employee of the month. I'm not sure where "resent the rich" is in the NDP platform. But I can see how someone with your servile attitude would interpret the idea that government should work for the betterment of all instead of just a few as "resentment".

We don't resent others simply because they make more than us. Those people are the ones that either buy what we make or employ us. Taxing them doesn't hurt them, it hurts us. Do you think they just sit and pout and take the taxation? No, they adjust accordingly and either lay off or raise the cost of the goods they produce.

In other words, the state exists to serve capital and those who possess it? And we can't do anything to upset our betters lest they grow angry and smite us.

I've got a newsflash: the people you seem so concerned with protecting don't give a shit about you. Indeed, as corporate and personal taxes have fallen over the past decades, income levels for the top 20 per cent of the population have gone up, while real incomes for everyone else have stagnated or fallen, even as governments cut income support and other programs. I could go on, but my point is simple: polices devoted to appeasing corporate/capital interests have been the norm in North America for the past 20 years plus, but they've done little to help families and workers. Now, maybe you belive we should just be happy we have jobs at all, but I think we can do better.

OK then, how do you propose we tax them and have it benefit us? Nine times out of ten when we tax the rich we either pay with our jobs or at the cash register. How does that help people?

[Hicksey]

Then I said to him, if Canada was attacked and we went to war and there was a draft and he had to go serve, that would be no problem, right? I mean, he is all about Canadian, right? He responded, in shock, that Canada would never be attacked because it was a country that was loved in the Arab world for standing up to the U.S. (boy, the left has got that dead on...

.

That kid must never read the news. Do a search and you'll find out that we have been listed as a top 5 target by Al-Qaida directly. Do a further search and you'll find we might have already thwarted an attempt to run a plane into the Pickering, ON Nuclear Reactor.

Possible Threats to National Security

On Pickering, ON

If you don't like these sources, google some ... there are plenty of others.

[Hollus]

No, what it is is that we can see past the 'hate the rich because you're not one of them' message of Layton. If I'm a worker in that Oshawa plant that makes those Cadillacs, I am glad when people in the income range that buy cadillacs get a tax cut. That way they have the money to replace their Caddie with another one. Otherwise my job is in danger. I may wish that I was that guy too, but I don't resent him because he keeps me working at that wage level.

If there was a strawman manufacturing plant, you'd be employee of the month. I'm not sure where "resent the rich" is in the NDP platform. But I can see how someone with your servile attitude would interpret the idea that government should work for the betterment of all instead of just a few as "resentment".

We don't resent others simply because they make more than us. Those people are the ones that either buy what we make or employ us. Taxing them doesn't hurt them, it hurts us. Do you think they just sit and pout and take the taxation? No, they adjust accordingly and either lay off or raise the cost of the goods they produce.

In other words, the state exists to serve capital and those who possess it? And we can't do anything to upset our betters lest they grow angry and smite us.

I've got a newsflash: the people you seem so concerned with protecting don't give a shit about you. Indeed, as corporate and personal taxes have fallen over the past decades, income levels for the top 20 per cent of the population have gone up, while real incomes for everyone else have stagnated or fallen, even as governments cut income support and other programs. I could go on, but my point is simple: polices devoted to appeasing corporate/capital interests have been the norm in North America for the past 20 years plus, but they've done little to help families and workers. Now, maybe you belive we should just be happy we have jobs at all, but I think we can do better.

OK then, how do you propose we tax them and have it benefit us? Nine times out of ten when we tax the rich we either pay with our jobs or at the cash register. How does that help people?

Your right Hicksey. Its much deeper than tax cuts. Welcome to class-warfare. I've started a thread in an attemt to address this very issue. I titled it: 'Sailing a sinking ship?' Im waiting for some feedback

[Boru]

"Its about time Canadains stood up for their country and not globe trotting corporations. Unfortunatly, the current economic envirounment created by previous liberal/conservative governments has pretty much got us pimped out to corporate interests, and dis' pimp dont like back talk. Maybe if NDP had power in the past we wouldnt be in this situation."

I get such a kick out of the left when they start talking about "standing up for their country." I was talking to some 18 year-old Molson Canadian-drinking, Canadian flag-waving, anti-American ranting, multiculturalist believing kid the other day and we started talking politics.

When I told him I was pro-Harper and Conservative he gave me a bizarre look and started ranting about the above things and then told me he was pro-NDP and standing up for Canada, etc.

Then I said to him, if Canada was attacked and we went to war and there was a draft and he had to go serve, that would be no problem, right? I mean, he is all about Canadian, right? He responded, in shock, that Canada would never be attacked because it was a country that was loved in the Arab world for standing up to the U.S. (boy, the left has got that dead on... )

Then I asked him the question again and he started stuttering and walked away. The left has always been about rhetoric and myths but I bet 90% of them wouldn't pick up a gun and defend this country.

If you're going to make up a little story, at least make it entertaining. This is pathetic.

Quite the stereotype youtry to paint ther. Canadian drinking, flag waving, multiculturalist, etc...

You really should'nt start down that road. The stereotypes that are flung around regarding people with your ideological thinking are pretty fierce these days.

If Canada is attacked, then we'll deal with it then. But why ahven't we been? Spain, England, the United States have all suffered dreadful attacks that have scared their populations into boarding up their doors.

Of those countries, Canada, by far, has the least security measures in place.

Why have the subways of Toronto or Montreal not been firebombed?

Honestly, pull your head out of your ass. Get some fresh air. Clear your head.

For gods sake, don't spam these boards with your fictional stories of you crusading the Conservative cause around town and debating those commies away.

[tml12]

Boru,

"Why have the subways of Toronto or Montreal not been firebombed?"

You are a fool if you don't think al-Qaida wants to bomb Toronto and Montreal subways.

Why haven't they? I don't know but there are terrorist cells in all our major cities and are planning attacks on us now.

You are stupid if you think they haven't attacked us because "we aren't the U.S." That is another lie of the left...we are just as evil a capitalistic nation.

[Black Dog]

What reasons? More handouts and social revolution? Oh yes. Thats it, thats all.

I'll take my tax cuts.

I just need to point out that one of Stephen Harper's so-called five points is a big gawdamn handout. If you support Harper's childcare plan, then you've no business whinging about handouts. It only highlights your hypocricy.

[uOttawaMan]

Boru,

"Why have the subways of Toronto or Montreal not been firebombed?"

You are a fool if you don't think al-Qaida wants to bomb Toronto and Montreal subways.

Why haven't they? I don't know but there are terrorist cells in all our major cities and are planning attacks on us now.

You are stupid if you think they haven't attacked us because "we aren't the U.S." That is another lie of the left...we are just as evil a capitalistic nation.

You sir are the one who sounds like a fool. If anyone wanted to bomb anything in Canada, they could easily do so , right now. There are NO security measures in place.

You want to know why we are still safe? Do you really? Then look at this cold truth. We are safe, because the terrorists can use us. They can use Canada as a base of operations, as an access point to the US. So by attacking Canada, what do they gain? Nothing. Increased security and immigration tightening, therefore causing them to lose a valuable base. So there may be terrorist cells in our cities, but they arent planning to attack us, they are planning to attack the US.

And just because your post made me want to smash my head into the wall of ignorance it built and make it crumble, I'm a NDP left wing 19 year old, beer drinking flag waving Canadian, who is in the Army Reserve, ready to "defend" this country, (if taking a gun and driving around in APC's can be called a defence).

In closing, after viewing your posts in this thread tml, the only thing i can say, is you sir, are a certified asshat.

[sage]

I'm not sure but I think both Ottawaman and Boru are going a little hard on TMl.

I believe his original point is that there are alot of Canadians who wouldn't take up arms in defence of this country. On this he's dead-on as the annual Maclean's poll shows every year.

I'm not sure if you can categorize those who would or would not defend this country by their political colour though. Except maybe the liberals, they're a bunch of pussies. The NDP has militant union heads, and the Tories got gun-totin' rednecks who are just asking for something to shoot at. I don't believe the Liberals have this kind of character.

[Hicksey]

Give me a break! Unions are about workers rights. If everything is left up to industry you get a big fat pig of company sucking up our ecological wealth and feeding it to shareholders with very little support put back to the community.

...

PS Hicksey, your job is doomed. Domestic auto is a fraction of the cost of imports and their still being out sold. Tax cuts wont do shit, imports are simply better vehicles.

First. I hear about a guy who got fired for doing drugs at work or a guy fired for absenteeism that after being off for 6 weeks ends up getting hired back because unions forced the company to--and get paid a paid holiday even though he was fired with cause. That's not about worker rights. Unions are getting way too greedy these days. Maybe its just me, but I don't think unskilled labour is worth more than about $25 an hour. These unions that force wages up or threaten to bring business to a standstill, or engage in illegal labour practices like work slow downs to get near $40 an hour shouldn't be surprised their jobs get exported.

Unions used to be about health and safety and getting the worker a fair share, now they've gone so far that a day doesn't go by that I don't hear about these high paying jobs being exported. They're doing themselves and the rest of us great disservice by driving high paying jobs out of the country. Blame the companies all you want. But if I own the company, and like the Big Three you're not making any profit in North America, I do what I have to get back to profitability. Where unions have done their membership wrong is to put these companies in the position that it is worth sacrificing the flexibility of having plants located near where the product is sold thereby making their jobs here expendable.

Second. My job isn't doomed. I don't work there. I was saying that as an example. The point was that even trophy plants that the automakers brag about aren't immune to this.

[Black Dog]

And just because your post made me want to smash my head into the wall of ignorance it built and make it crumble, I'm a NDP left wing 19 year old, beer drinking flag waving Canadian, who is in the Army Reserve, ready to "defend" this country, (if taking a gun and driving around in APC's can be called a defence).

I don't understand this sudden need for people of the left to show how willing they are to stand up for conervative values like nationalism to show hopw tough they are. Nationalism is anotehr form of chauvanism, an ideology used to conince people to put their lives at risk in the service of a "cause" that only benefits those who stay behind and out of danger.

I wouldn't "defend my country" because I believe the very concept is bullcrap.

[Hicksey]

And just because your post made me want to smash my head into the wall of ignorance it built and make it crumble, I'm a NDP left wing 19 year old, beer drinking flag waving Canadian, who is in the Army Reserve, ready to "defend" this country, (if taking a gun and driving around in APC's can be called a defence).

I don't understand this sudden need for people of the left to show how willing they are to stand up for conervative values like nationalism to show hopw tough they are. Nationalism is anotehr form of chauvanism, an ideology used to conince people to put their lives at risk in the service of a "cause" that only benefits those who stay behind and out of danger.

I wouldn't "defend my country" because I believe the very concept is bullcrap.

It that's not an insult to our troops, what is?

If you don't want to defend your country for whatever reason, that's fine. I couldn't even if I wanted to because I know I don't have the discipline to do it and as a result would likely put others in further danger.

They may not defend our country today in the sense they did in World Wars past. But that would be hard to do anyway considering how the institution has been neglected and its funding looted since those times. Most of their equipment is so outdated and flimsy that they'd have a hard time defending their way out of a wet paper bag. That's not an insult, rather to get across the general abuse of their institution but politicians with opinions like yours.

There's nothing wrong with patroitism, and respecting what the people before you have done for their country. That they put themselves in harm's way knowing that they very well may not be able to enjoy the benefits of their work is what makes these people true heroes.

[Boru]

Boru,

"Why have the subways of Toronto or Montreal not been firebombed?"

You are a fool if you don't think al-Qaida wants to bomb Toronto and Montreal subways.

Why haven't they? I don't know but there are terrorist cells in all our major cities and are planning attacks on us now.

You are stupid if you think they haven't attacked us because "we aren't the U.S." That is another lie of the left...we are just as evil a capitalistic nation.

Just the opposite. This is another thread in the right web of deceit and fear monger. That's all you're doing, fear mongering, to justify military buildup.

Rather pathetic. They haven't hit us. If they wanted to, they could have easily done so. That is evdence enough that is is peopel like YOU who are lying, not me.

left lie? Please. The evidence is on our side, while yours looks, as is always the case with you, like compelte and total fiction.

[Hicksey]

Boru,

"Why have the subways of Toronto or Montreal not been firebombed?"

You are a fool if you don't think al-Qaida wants to bomb Toronto and Montreal subways.

Why haven't they? I don't know but there are terrorist cells in all our major cities and are planning attacks on us now.

You are stupid if you think they haven't attacked us because "we aren't the U.S." That is another lie of the left...we are just as evil a capitalistic nation.

Just the opposite. This is another thread in the right web of deceit and fear monger. That's all you're doing, fear mongering, to justify military buildup.

Rather pathetic. They haven't hit us. If they wanted to, they could have easily done so. That is evdence enough that is is peopel like YOU who are lying, not me.

left lie? Please. The evidence is on our side, while yours looks, as is always the case with you, like compelte and total fiction.

Fear-mongering? It has been argued that they have already tried and been thwarted. See post 29 of this thread.

[Black Dog]

There's nothing wrong with patroitism, and respecting what the people before you have done for their country. That they put themselves in harm's way knowing that they very well may not be able to enjoy the benefits of their work is what makes these people true heroes.

I've been through this before and I'm not gonna get into it again. Sufice it to say, I think patriotism is a scam designed to give people a reason to die, even as their sacrifice benefits the very people who sent them. to their deaths "Die so that others can profit" just doesn't make for good recruitment slogans.

[Hollus]

Give me a break! Unions are about workers rights. If everything is left up to industry you get a big fat pig of company sucking up our ecological wealth and feeding it to shareholders with very little support put back to the community.

...

PS Hicksey, your job is doomed. Domestic auto is a fraction of the cost of imports and their still being out sold. Tax cuts wont do shit, imports are simply better vehicles.

First. I hear about a guy who got fired for doing drugs at work or a guy fired for absenteeism that after being off for 6 weeks ends up getting hired back because unions forced the company to--and get paid a paid holiday even though he was fired with cause. That's not about worker rights. Unions are getting way too greedy these days. Maybe its just me, but I don't think unskilled labour is worth more than about $25 an hour. These unions that force wages up or threaten to bring business to a standstill, or engage in illegal labour practices like work slow downs to get near $40 an hour shouldn't be surprised their jobs get exported.

Unions used to be about health and safety and getting the worker a fair share, now they've gone so far that a day doesn't go by that I don't hear about these high paying jobs being exported. They're doing themselves and the rest of us great disservice by driving high paying jobs out of the country. Blame the companies all you want. But if I own the company, and like the Big Three you're not making any profit in North America, I do what I have to get back to profitability. Where unions have done their membership wrong is to put these companies in the position that it is worth sacrificing the flexibility of having plants located near where the product is sold thereby making their jobs here expendable.

Second. My job isn't doomed. I don't work there. I was saying that as an example. The point was that even trophy plants that the automakers brag about aren't immune to this.

It is a complete miss conception that the outsourcing of our factories and jobs is the fault of unions. And your definition of unskilled labour is also missleading, as it refers to anyone without credentials from a educational institution. So everyone in the oilpacth making these wages that dont have a trade or degree(like oil rig crews) are no different. I dont want to start debating the validity of unions in our current economical climate, which is why Ive treid to address the broader topic industry relations in a thread titled:Sailing a sinking ship.

There is one good example of successful union/industry relations in the Mosiac mine fire last week. Leaves me to wonder if similar operations were in-place, maybe that tragic mine accident in West Verginia would have faired better.

Whats good for {insert corporate name} is not necessarily good for Canadians.

[BubberMiley]

I don't get why conservatives feel they have some kind of honour when it comes to military service. They're generally a bunch of chickenhawks if you ask me. If you look at conservative leadership (the entire Bush administration, Harper, etc.), they like to "support the troops" by facilitating them being blown apart but have "other priorities" when it comes to fighting the fight themselves.

[Hicksey]

There's nothing wrong with patroitism, and respecting what the people before you have done for their country. That they put themselves in harm's way knowing that they very well may not be able to enjoy the benefits of their work is what makes these people true heroes.

I've been through this before and I'm not gonna get into it again. Sufice it to say, I think patriotism is a scam designed to give people a reason to die, even as their sacrifice benefits the very people who sent them. to their deaths "Die so that others can profit" just doesn't make for good recruitment slogans.

OK, you don't subscribe to patriotism.

But don't you think socialist policies aren't the same scam? Its all done in the name of social justice for all, but all that ends up happening is that it gets filtered through a bunch of profiteering politicians that give some to their friends and supporters, and several different bureacracies before nowhere near what was taken from me gets to people in amounts that aren't enough to do what was intended. In the end, everyone but you and the people that these taxes are being taken to help get what they need from your paycheck. You're being scammed under the guise of social justice as badly as you say we are under the guise of patriotism. I don't subscribe to socialism because I just don't trust government.

[Hicksey]

Give me a break! Unions are about workers rights. If everything is left up to industry you get a big fat pig of company sucking up our ecological wealth and feeding it to shareholders with very little support put back to the community.

...

PS Hicksey, your job is doomed. Domestic auto is a fraction of the cost of imports and their still being out sold. Tax cuts wont do shit, imports are simply better vehicles.

First. I hear about a guy who got fired for doing drugs at work or a guy fired for absenteeism that after being off for 6 weeks ends up getting hired back because unions forced the company to--and get paid a paid holiday even though he was fired with cause. That's not about worker rights. Unions are getting way too greedy these days. Maybe its just me, but I don't think unskilled labour is worth more than about $25 an hour. These unions that force wages up or threaten to bring business to a standstill, or engage in illegal labour practices like work slow downs to get near $40 an hour shouldn't be surprised their jobs get exported.

Unions used to be about health and safety and getting the worker a fair share, now they've gone so far that a day doesn't go by that I don't hear about these high paying jobs being exported. They're doing themselves and the rest of us great disservice by driving high paying jobs out of the country. Blame the companies all you want. But if I own the company, and like the Big Three you're not making any profit in North America, I do what I have to get back to profitability. Where unions have done their membership wrong is to put these companies in the position that it is worth sacrificing the flexibility of having plants located near where the product is sold thereby making their jobs here expendable.

Second. My job isn't doomed. I don't work there. I was saying that as an example. The point was that even trophy plants that the automakers brag about aren't immune to this.

It is a complete miss conception that the outsourcing of our factories and jobs is the fault of unions. And your definition of unskilled labour is also missleading, as it refers to anyone without credentials from a educational institution. So everyone in the oilpacth making these wages that dont have a trade or degree(like oil rig crews) are no different. I dont want to start debating the validity of unions in our current economical climate, which is why Ive treid to address the broader topic industry relations in a thread titled:Sailing a sinking ship.

There is one good example of successful union/industry relations in the Mosiac mine fire last week. Leaves me to wonder if similar operations were in-place, maybe that tragic mine accident in West Verginia would have faired better.

Whats good for {insert corporate name} is not necessarily good for Canadians.

I never said unions were all bad. When they stick to health and safety and responsible wage increases (ie COLA + IRate) and stop doing stupid things like getting people their jobs back that obviously don't deserve them -- unions are a good thing. But I can tell you from working as a student in a several union environments, that it sucks to work there. Every day you wake up and have to go to work you know it will be the longest day of your life without fail. If you get bored and pick up a broom to sweep and pass some time, you get screamed at because the union workers get paid overtime to do that on weekends. Pick up a pallet and move it instead of waiting 15 min for a lift truck and you get screamed at because "if you do that, they'll expect us to." Without fail, this is what I encountered--over and over and over. The general attitude around the places was pure apathy. I hated working in those places. I have avoided union shops ever since.

[tml12]

Boru,

"Why have the subways of Toronto or Montreal not been firebombed?"

You are a fool if you don't think al-Qaida wants to bomb Toronto and Montreal subways.

Why haven't they? I don't know but there are terrorist cells in all our major cities and are planning attacks on us now.

You are stupid if you think they haven't attacked us because "we aren't the U.S." That is another lie of the left...we are just as evil a capitalistic nation.

You sir are the one who sounds like a fool. If anyone wanted to bomb anything in Canada, they could easily do so , right now. There are NO security measures in place.

You want to know why we are still safe? Do you really? Then look at this cold truth. We are safe, because the terrorists can use us. They can use Canada as a base of operations, as an access point to the US. So by attacking Canada, what do they gain? Nothing. Increased security and immigration tightening, therefore causing them to lose a valuable base. So there may be terrorist cells in our cities, but they arent planning to attack us, they are planning to attack the US.

And just because your post made me want to smash my head into the wall of ignorance it built and make it crumble, I'm a NDP left wing 19 year old, beer drinking flag waving Canadian, who is in the Army Reserve, ready to "defend" this country, (if taking a gun and driving around in APC's can be called a defence).

In closing, after viewing your posts in this thread tml, the only thing i can say, is you sir, are a certified asshat.

You are defending the right of terrorists to use Canada as a base to attack the U.S.? Because I find that revolting...

And I respect your (minus the insults) response to my post. I was incorrect to generalize that all left-wingers are anti-military but even you, as a university student, must admit there are many around and you know who they are...

[tml12]

I'm not sure but I think both Ottawaman and Boru are going a little hard on TMl.

I believe his original point is that there are alot of Canadians who wouldn't take up arms in defence of this country. On this he's dead-on as the annual Maclean's poll shows every year.

I'm not sure if you can categorize those who would or would not defend this country by their political colour though. Except maybe the liberals, they're a bunch of pussies. The NDP has militant union heads, and the Tories got gun-totin' rednecks who are just asking for something to shoot at. I don't believe the Liberals have this kind of character.

Thank you Sage...you are correct that that was my original point...

[Black Dog]

But don't you think socialist policies aren't the same scam? Its all done in the name of social justice for all, but all that ends up happening is that it gets filtered through a bunch of profiteering politicians that give some to their friends and supporters, and several different bureacracies before nowhere near what was taken from me gets to people in amounts that aren't enough to do what was intended. In the end, everyone but you and the people that these taxes are being taken to help get what they need from your paycheck. You're being scammed under the guise of social justice as badly as you say we are under the guise of patriotism. I don't subscribe to socialism because I just don't trust government.

Even if this were the case (which I don't think it is: obviously inefficiency and some degree of corruption are going to be present in any herierarchal, bureaucratic system, but to dismiss the potential good is throwing th baby out with the bathwater), at the end of the day, which system is more destructive? Or, put it another way: your money or your life?

[fixer1]

I'm not sure but I think both Ottawaman and Boru are going a little hard on TMl.

I believe his original point is that there are alot of Canadians who wouldn't take up arms in defence of this country. On this he's dead-on as the annual Maclean's poll shows every year.

I'm not sure if you can categorize those who would or would not defend this country by their political colour though. Except maybe the liberals, they're a bunch of pussies. The NDP has militant union heads, and the Tories got gun-totin' rednecks who are just asking for something to shoot at. I don't believe the Liberals have this kind of character.

Thank you Sage...you are correct that that was my original point...

I take exception to the statement that many Canadians would not take up arms to support this country. I believe that if this country was ever under attack by any foreign power, and they came to our soil, it would be very evident that most people would come to Canada's defence. I mean Canadian people, not foreign powers. Canada has a very large mostly quiet population of people who are proud of Canada, and what it stands for. You will not see these people here posting or otherwise making their presence known. But they are there. You find them supporting the legions thru out Canada, you will see these people giving helping hands to those less fortunate, and for many they would give up the ultimate sacrifice if called to do so. Many of these people are friends and relatives of those who have in the past stood up for Canada. It is sad that they will fight for the rights of those who think that Canada is just a pack of left wing hippies, who will always find the worst in people to dwell on, to have their say, but go on silently knowing that these are just the musings of the few and the loud, and not the musing of the many and the proud.

I am 55 years old and if Canad was ever under attack, I would be the first to come to the call for arms. I am sure all of my family would do the same. Just because we are not always present to try and talk down the naysayers, does not mean we are not here. We are here and we are ready to do what ever needs to be done when the time comes. But we also are always hoping that that time never has to come, as the best war is the one that never comes about.

[Hicksey]

But don't you think socialist policies aren't the same scam? Its all done in the name of social justice for all, but all that ends up happening is that it gets filtered through a bunch of profiteering politicians that give some to their friends and supporters, and several different bureacracies before nowhere near what was taken from me gets to people in amounts that aren't enough to do what was intended. In the end, everyone but you and the people that these taxes are being taken to help get what they need from your paycheck. You're being scammed under the guise of social justice as badly as you say we are under the guise of patriotism. I don't subscribe to socialism because I just don't trust government.

Even if this were the case (which I don't think it is: obviously inefficiency and some degree of corruption are going to be present in any herierarchal, bureaucratic system, but to dismiss the potential good is throwing th baby out with the bathwater), at the end of the day, which system is more destructive? Or, put it another way: your money or your life?

We watched my mother in law die because our health care system refused to recognize she was sick. We fought with her doctor for over a year only to find out when a friend of mine called in a favor and got her into London, ON that it was too late and her cancer was inoperable. As a direct result, we watched her die a very painful death. And that's not to mention that the lack of spaces in the cancer program there cost my mother a half of her liver because they couldn't get her into chemo fast enough.

I think that 'your money and your life' would be more accurate.

What we need is some sort of transparency laws that make politicians accountable for making sure as much of the money they allocate to certain areas gets there as possible. Random independent audits should be performed on an unannouced, but fairly regular basis and the results should be released to the public.

I would not complain about taxation so badly if we got anything close to what they advertise they're giving us. But its just not close. And its so far it costs people their lives.

If you're not going to give me what you promise, the be more responsible and only promise what you can do. If not, then give it back to me. I work too damned hard for that money for them to piss it away the way they do.