"Hit the Road" Jack!

[SamStranger]

I hate jack laytons attitude. he thinks the governemnt should take all your money and do things with it. I dont think so jack. A result to me is a TAX CUT. NDP is scared of tax cuts because they bring money back into our pockets, not into social programs that only help 15% of the polulation. $9 billion dollars for affordabel housing... that doesnt help me, I own my home. Does that help anyone on this site?? I doubt it. it only helps poor people, which is only a very small percentage of the population. that 9 billion should have went back into our pockets threw a TAX CUT.

I say HIT THE ROAD JACK.

jack layton speaks for 15% of the poluation, if that...

He does not speak for anyone earning $45,000 a year or more... which is the vast majority of our population.

[tml12]

I hate jack laytons attitude. he thinks the governemnt should take all your money and do things with it. I dont think so jack. A result to me is a TAX CUT. NDP is scared of tax cuts because they bring money back into our pockets, not into social programs that only help 15% of the polulation. $9 billion dollars for affordabel housing... that doesnt help me, I own my home. Does that help anyone on this site?? I doubt it. it only helps poor people, which is only a very small percentage of the population. that 9 billion should have went back into our pockets threw a TAX CUT.

I say HIT THE ROAD JACK.

jack layton speaks for 15% of the poluation, if that...

He does not speak for anyone earning $45,000 a year or more... which is the vast majority of our population.

If you're going to dump Layton you have to dump the NDP.

Not that I would mind...

[Hicksey]

I hate jack laytons attitude. he thinks the governemnt should take all your money and do things with it. I dont think so jack. A result to me is a TAX CUT. NDP is scared of tax cuts because they bring money back into our pockets, not into social programs that only help 15% of the polulation. $9 billion dollars for affordabel housing... that doesnt help me, I own my home. Does that help anyone on this site?? I doubt it. it only helps poor people, which is only a very small percentage of the population. that 9 billion should have went back into our pockets threw a TAX CUT.

I say HIT THE ROAD JACK.

jack layton speaks for 15% of the poluation, if that...

He does not speak for anyone earning $45,000 a year or more... which is the vast majority of our population.

He speaks for unions largely too. Unions have that same entitlement mentality. They push and push and push and then wonder how it is that at some point it becomes cheaper for their employer to make the products they used to make overseas and send them halfway around the world, pay the duties, and truck them to their customers and retailers from there.

I'm not going to say that I wouldn't like to be making some of the wages that unions get for their employees. But I will say that when you're an unskilled worker making $30 an hour, that you've outpriced yourself in the marketplace. Even GM's trophy plant for quality in Oshawa, ON isn't immune.

The only reason he gains any traction is his emotional and nonsensical class-warfare message. It amazes me how much support that party gets.

[Black Dog]

I don't think SamStranger has posted a message on this board yet that wasn't some variation of the "Jack Layton sux" theme. I think he's trying to say he doesn't support Jack Layton. Now, Sammy doesn't come off as someone inclined to support the NDP anyway (what with his apparent loathing of the poor), so I'm not sure why anyone (especially Dippers) would be interested in what he has to say.

He speaks for unions largely too. Unions have that same entitlement mentality. They push and push and push and then wonder how it is that at some point it becomes cheaper for their employer to make the products they used to make overseas and send them halfway around the world, pay the duties, and truck them to their customers and retailers from there.

Oh yeah: those poor corporations are forced by the big bad unions to pack up and head to India or Mexico. Has nothingh to do with cheap labour and lack or regulation in thos emarkets, no siree. It's gotta be unions (which uh, doesn't explain why the United States, the least unionized country in the western world, has also been hit by a plague of outsourcing).

The only reason he gains any traction is his emotional and nonsensical class-warfare message. It amazes me how much support that party gets.

"Class-warfare" I've always wondered why conservatives deny the existence of class in our society except when their class* is under the microscope. But then, I also can't understand why people are convinced to support parties and policies that compromise their broader economic well-being in exchange for a few peanuts (oooo! Tax cuts!).

*of course, only a small proportion of "conservatives" actually belong to the class that benefits most from conservative economic policies. So their identification with that class is purely aspirational. In that sense, Conservative supporters are like sports fans: heavily invested in the success of "their" team, but only marginal beneficiaries of that success.

[Hicksey]

I don't think SamStranger has posted a message on this board yet that wasn't some variation of the "Jack Layton sux" theme. I think he's trying to say he doesn't support Jack Layton. Now, Sammy doesn't come off as someone inclined to support the NDP anyway (what with his apparent loathing of the poor), so I'm not sure why anyone (especially Dippers) would be interested in what he has to say.

He speaks for unions largely too. Unions have that same entitlement mentality. They push and push and push and then wonder how it is that at some point it becomes cheaper for their employer to make the products they used to make overseas and send them halfway around the world, pay the duties, and truck them to their customers and retailers from there.

Oh yeah: those poor corporations are forced by the big bad unions to pack up and head to India or Mexico. Has nothingh to do with cheap labour and lack or regulation in thos emarkets, no siree. It's gotta be unions (which uh, doesn't explain why the United States, the least unionized country in the western world, has also been hit by a plague of outsourcing).

The only reason he gains any traction is his emotional and nonsensical class-warfare message. It amazes me how much support that party gets.

"Class-warfare" I've always wondered why conservatives deny the existence of class in our society except when their class* is under the microscope. But then, I also can't understand why people are convinced to support parties and policies that compromise their broader economic well-being in exchange for a few peanuts (oooo! Tax cuts!).

*of course, only a small proportion of "conservatives" actually belong to the class that benefits most from conservative economic policies. So their identification with that class is purely aspirational. In that sense, Conservative supporters are like sports fans: heavily invested in the success of "their" team, but only marginal beneficiaries of that success.

No, what it is is that we can see past the 'hate the rich because you're not one of them' message of Layton. If I'm a worker in that Oshawa plant that makes those Cadillacs, I am glad when people in the income range that buy cadillacs get a tax cut. That way they have the money to replace their Caddie with another one. Otherwise my job is in danger. I may wish that I was that guy too, but I don't resent him because he keeps me working at that wage level.

We don't resent others simply because they make more than us. Those people are the ones that either buy what we make or employ us. Taxing them doesn't hurt them, it hurts us. Do you think they just sit and pout and take the taxation? No, they adjust accordingly and either lay off or raise the cost of the goods they produce.

[geoffrey]

No, what it is is that we can see past the 'hate the rich because you're not one of them' message of Layton. If I'm a worker in that Oshawa plant that makes those Cadillacs, I am glad when people in the income range that buy cadillacs get a tax cut. That way they have the money to replace their Caddie with another one. Otherwise my job is in danger. I may wish that I was that guy too, but I don't resent him because he keeps me working at that wage level.

We don't resent others simply because they make more than us. Those people are the ones that either buy what we make or employ us. Taxing them doesn't hurt them, it hurts us. Do you think they just sit and pout and take the taxation? No, they adjust accordingly and either lay off or raise the cost of the goods they produce.

Unionized workers are paid not to see past the end of their nose. If they saw themselves as a factor of production they'd realise that $30-40 an hour for unskilled labour is limiting their life expectancy.

Once you see past it, you realise robbing the rich to feed the less rich makes everyone poor at the end of the day. Unions can't have that, its all screw the man, power to the proletariat.

The NDP should stop kidding themselves and just change their motto to "Workers, all you have to lose is your chains!"

[fellowtraveller]

I don't think Jack will be hitting the road anytime soon.

He has increased the NDP visibility immeasureably, across Canada for a long time now.

He added 10 seats.

He actually got the Liberals to implement some NDP measures.

On the other hand, he only increased popular vote by 2% despite the golden opportunity presented by the Liberal catastrophe of the last 2 years.

In ba;lance, they would be crazy to replace him. He's the best leader they've had for a long time.

[Black Dog]

No, what it is is that we can see past the 'hate the rich because you're not one of them' message of Layton. If I'm a worker in that Oshawa plant that makes those Cadillacs, I am glad when people in the income range that buy cadillacs get a tax cut. That way they have the money to replace their Caddie with another one. Otherwise my job is in danger. I may wish that I was that guy too, but I don't resent him because he keeps me working at that wage level.

If there was a strawman manufacturing plant, you'd be employee of the month. I'm not sure where "resent the rich" is in the NDP platform. But I can see how someone with your servile attitude would interpret the idea that government should work for the betterment of all instead of just a few as "resentment".

We don't resent others simply because they make more than us. Those people are the ones that either buy what we make or employ us. Taxing them doesn't hurt them, it hurts us. Do you think they just sit and pout and take the taxation? No, they adjust accordingly and either lay off or raise the cost of the goods they produce.

In other words, the state exists to serve capital and those who possess it? And we can't do anything to upset our betters lest they grow angry and smite us.

I've got a newsflash: the people you seem so concerned with protecting don't give a shit about you. Indeed, as corporate and personal taxes have fallen over the past decades, income levels for the top 20 per cent of the population have gone up, while real incomes for everyone else have stagnated or fallen, even as governments cut income support and other programs. I could go on, but my point is simple: polices devoted to appeasing corporate/capital interests have been the norm in North America for the past 20 years plus, but they've done little to help families and workers. Now, maybe you belive we should just be happy we have jobs at all, but I think we can do better.

[Hollus]

Well said Black Dog!

Unionized workers are paid not to see past the end of their nose. If they saw themselves as a factor of production they'd realise that $30-40 an hour for unskilled labour is limiting their life expectancy.

Once you see past it, you realise robbing the rich to feed the less rich makes everyone poor at the end of the day. Unions can't have that, its all screw the man, power to the proletariat.

The NDP should stop kidding themselves and just change their motto to "Workers, all you have to lose is your chains!"

Give me a break! Unions are about workers rights. If everything is left up to industry you get a big fat pig of company sucking up our ecological wealth and feeding it to shareholders with very little support put back to the community.

Logging is a perfect example. As industry technology evloves, logging rates increase while employment rates decrease.

So who's getting the fair share? Shae-holder from the global market who have money to invest, or Canadian whoes small town is stricken with poverty/unemployment and has large tracts of clear-cut land within city-limits(where popular recreational trails used to exist)... I feel raped.

Its about time Canadains stood up for their country and not globe trotting corporations. Unfortunatly, the current economic envirounment created by previous liberal/conservative governments has pretty much got us pimped out to corporate interests, and dis' pimp dont like back talk. Maybe if NDP had power in the past we wouldnt be in this situation.

Your damn right I pvoted for Jack!

P>S Hicksey, your job is doomed. Domestic auto is a fraction of the cost of imports and their still being out sold. Tax cuts wont do shit, imports are simply better vehicles.

[tml12]

"Its about time Canadains stood up for their country and not globe trotting corporations. Unfortunatly, the current economic envirounment created by previous liberal/conservative governments has pretty much got us pimped out to corporate interests, and dis' pimp dont like back talk. Maybe if NDP had power in the past we wouldnt be in this situation."

I get such a kick out of the left when they start talking about "standing up for their country." I was talking to some 18 year-old Molson Canadian-drinking, Canadian flag-waving, anti-American ranting, multiculturalist believing kid the other day and we started talking politics.

When I told him I was pro-Harper and Conservative he gave me a bizarre look and started ranting about the above things and then told me he was pro-NDP and standing up for Canada, etc.

Then I said to him, if Canada was attacked and we went to war and there was a draft and he had to go serve, that would be no problem, right? I mean, he is all about Canadian, right? He responded, in shock, that Canada would never be attacked because it was a country that was loved in the Arab world for standing up to the U.S. (boy, the left has got that dead on... )

Then I asked him the question again and he started stuttering and walked away. The left has always been about rhetoric and myths but I bet 90% of them wouldn't pick up a gun and defend this country.

[Hollus]

"Its about time Canadains stood up for their country and not globe trotting corporations. Unfortunatly, the current economic envirounment created by previous liberal/conservative governments has pretty much got us pimped out to corporate interests, and dis' pimp dont like back talk. Maybe if NDP had power in the past we wouldnt be in this situation."

I get such a kick out of the left when they start talking about "standing up for their country." I was talking to some 18 year-old Molson Canadian-drinking, Canadian flag-waving, anti-American ranting, multiculturalist believing kid the other day and we started talking politics.

When I told him I was pro-Harper and Conservative he gave me a bizarre look and started ranting about the above things and then told me he was pro-NDP and standing up for Canada, etc.

Then I said to him, if Canada was attacked and we went to war and there was a draft and he had to go serve, that would be no problem, right? I mean, he is all about Canadian, right? He responded, in shock, that Canada would never be attacked because it was a country that was loved in the Arab world for standing up to the U.S. (boy, the left has got that dead on... )

Then I asked him the question again and he started stuttering and walked away. The left has always been about rhetoric and myths but I bet 90% of them wouldn't pick up a gun and defend this country.

Your so deluded im not even going to waste my time replying.

tml12: You've just been added to my 'dead to me' list. Have a nice life(ignorant ass!)

[Black Dog]

I get such a kick out of the left when they start talking about "standing up for their country." I was talking to some 18 year-old Molson Canadian-drinking, Canadian flag-waving, anti-American ranting, multiculturalist believing kid the other day and we started talking politics.

When I told him I was pro-Harper and Conservative he gave me a bizarre look and started ranting about the above things and then told me he was pro-NDP and standing up for Canada, etc.

Then I said to him, if Canada was attacked and we went to war and there was a draft and he had to go serve, that would be no problem, right? I mean, he is all about Canadian, right? He responded, in shock, that Canada would never be attacked because it was a country that was loved in the Arab world for standing up to the U.S. (boy, the left has got that dead on... )

Then I asked him the question again and he started stuttering and walked away. The left has always been about rhetoric and myths but I bet 90% of them wouldn't pick up a gun and defend this country.

What the kid should have done is refused to answer your hypothetical on the grounds of it being a cheap rhetorical parlour trick. He should also have mentioned the left traditionaly rejects nationalistic sentiments, prefering a more humanistic approah to looking at the world. But then he's 18, so I doubt he'd have any of these answers. But hey: if picking political fights with kids out of high school gives you validation, power to you.

[tml12]

"Its about time Canadains stood up for their country and not globe trotting corporations. Unfortunatly, the current economic envirounment created by previous liberal/conservative governments has pretty much got us pimped out to corporate interests, and dis' pimp dont like back talk. Maybe if NDP had power in the past we wouldnt be in this situation."

I get such a kick out of the left when they start talking about "standing up for their country." I was talking to some 18 year-old Molson Canadian-drinking, Canadian flag-waving, anti-American ranting, multiculturalist believing kid the other day and we started talking politics.

When I told him I was pro-Harper and Conservative he gave me a bizarre look and started ranting about the above things and then told me he was pro-NDP and standing up for Canada, etc.

Then I said to him, if Canada was attacked and we went to war and there was a draft and he had to go serve, that would be no problem, right? I mean, he is all about Canadian, right? He responded, in shock, that Canada would never be attacked because it was a country that was loved in the Arab world for standing up to the U.S. (boy, the left has got that dead on... )

Then I asked him the question again and he started stuttering and walked away. The left has always been about rhetoric and myths but I bet 90% of them wouldn't pick up a gun and defend this country.

Your so deluded im not even going to waste my time replying.

tml12: You've just been added to my 'dead to me' list. Have a nice life(ignorant ass!)

You aren't the first person on my "dead to me" list either.

I can see that really got to you.

[tml12]

I get such a kick out of the left when they start talking about "standing up for their country." I was talking to some 18 year-old Molson Canadian-drinking, Canadian flag-waving, anti-American ranting, multiculturalist believing kid the other day and we started talking politics.

When I told him I was pro-Harper and Conservative he gave me a bizarre look and started ranting about the above things and then told me he was pro-NDP and standing up for Canada, etc.

Then I said to him, if Canada was attacked and we went to war and there was a draft and he had to go serve, that would be no problem, right? I mean, he is all about Canadian, right? He responded, in shock, that Canada would never be attacked because it was a country that was loved in the Arab world for standing up to the U.S. (boy, the left has got that dead on... )

Then I asked him the question again and he started stuttering and walked away. The left has always been about rhetoric and myths but I bet 90% of them wouldn't pick up a gun and defend this country.

What the kid should have done is refused to answer your hypothetical on the grounds of it being a cheap rhetorical parlour trick. He should also have mentioned the left traditionaly rejects nationalistic sentiments, prefering a more humanistic approah to looking at the world. But then he's 18, so I doubt he'd have any of these answers. But hey: if picking political fights with kids out of high school gives you validation, power to you.

I don't consider intellectual debate to be "picking a fight." If he had said what you just said, I would have respected his view on the world, albeit an extremely leftist and idealistic one.

[Hollus]

"Its about time Canadains stood up for their country and not globe trotting corporations. Unfortunatly, the current economic envirounment created by previous liberal/conservative governments has pretty much got us pimped out to corporate interests, and dis' pimp dont like back talk. Maybe if NDP had power in the past we wouldnt be in this situation."

I get such a kick out of the left when they start talking about "standing up for their country." I was talking to some 18 year-old Molson Canadian-drinking, Canadian flag-waving, anti-American ranting, multiculturalist believing kid the other day and we started talking politics.

When I told him I was pro-Harper and Conservative he gave me a bizarre look and started ranting about the above things and then told me he was pro-NDP and standing up for Canada, etc.

Then I said to him, if Canada was attacked and we went to war and there was a draft and he had to go serve, that would be no problem, right? I mean, he is all about Canadian, right? He responded, in shock, that Canada would never be attacked because it was a country that was loved in the Arab world for standing up to the U.S. (boy, the left has got that dead on... )

Then I asked him the question again and he started stuttering and walked away. The left has always been about rhetoric and myths but I bet 90% of them wouldn't pick up a gun and defend this country.

Your so deluded im not even going to waste my time replying.

tml12: You've just been added to my 'dead to me' list. Have a nice life(ignorant ass!)

You aren't the first person on my "dead to me" list either.

I can see that really got to you.

Got to me? No.

As I mentioned before you are clearly deluded.

I get such a kick out of the left when they start talking about "standing up for their country." I was talking to some 18 year-old Molson Canadian-drinking, Canadian flag-waving, anti-American ranting, multiculturalist believing kid the other day and we started talking politics.

-Well, I dont drink much beer, so I cant relate to this lefty on that.

-I dont generaly believe in nationalism, I think its destructive to society. However, I do believe in

democratic government; I am proud of the freedoms we've honoured but equally ashamed of those we've

dissregarded. Not a flag waver.

-You probably confused "anti-American ranting" with anti-Bushism ranting.

-Canada is a multiculturalistic society so I hope he beleived in it. So should you.

When I told him I was pro-Harper and Conservative he gave me a bizarre look and started ranting about the above things and then told me he was pro-NDP and standing up for Canada, etc.

Are you going to share what this 18 year old had to say or should I just assume it was to much for you to comprehend?

Then I said to him, if Canada was attacked and we went to war and there was a draft and he had to go serve, that would be no problem, right? I mean, he is all about Canadian, right? He responded, in shock, that Canada would never be attacked because it was a country that was loved in the Arab world for standing up to the U.S. (boy, the left has got that dead on... )

So now your attacking this 18 year olds honour. Questioning his dedication and love for his family, his friends, his envirounment, his hopes and dreams of the future. Based on what??? What have you done that allows you to go around attacking people like this?

Then I asked him the question again and he started stuttering and walked away. The left has always been about rhetoric and myths but I bet 90% of them wouldn't pick up a gun and defend this country.

So once the kid realized he was trying to converse with a mental midget, he got uncomfortable and left.

Then you went on spewing your ignorant, deluded bullshit on mapleleafweb.

Hence,

Your so deluded im not even going to waste my time replying.

tml12: You've just been added to my 'dead to me' list. Have a nice life(ignorant ass!)

[tml12]

Hollus,

I refuse to sink to your level of insults and expletives.

I don't like you very much and I respect the fact that the feeling is mutual.

[Hollus]

Hollus,

I refuse to sink to your level of insults and expletives.

I don't like you very much and I respect the fact that the feeling is mutual.

Well good on you for being the bigger man.

Although I think that was out the window when you generalized 90% of Canadians with leftist views as not willing to defend themselves.

[tml12]

Hollus,

I refuse to sink to your level of insults and expletives.

I don't like you very much and I respect the fact that the feeling is mutual.

Well good on you for being the bigger man.

Although I think that was out the window when you generalized 90% of Canadians with leftist views as not willing to defend themselves.

That was an excessive quote written in the heat of typing and I accept the fact that it was exaggerated...

[Cameron]

Calm down kids...remember No left-wing posts!!!!!! :P:P

First off, I hate poor people. But they are good at menial tasks and aren't really concerned with education because their union rep will take care of them....ok kidding, kidding.

There is a place for unions, but it seems today that they are turning a blind eye to how a company is performing and just concentrating on their workers benefits and rights, which are important, but means squat if the company is not making money. We have seen this with Airlines, Mills, etc. There are many examples.

Unions need to start working with companies to make them more efficient, gain more worker training to limit the number of jobs that are outsourced to countries that can afford to pay their workers low wadges (compared to us).

We need less government in this country, we have enough, too much if you ask me. With a more competitive economy and the more jobs that are created there will be less of a need to enforce minimum wage, as there will be sufficient competition to garner higher wages. I want to live in a country where it is encouraged to make money and attain wealth. Let's de-sovietize Ottawa and put more economic power into the provinces, as this is where the jobs are. Create an environment that encourages individual provincial control over job creation and economic prosperity. Put the power back in the hands of the people, and get it away from the blokes in Ottawa.

People would rather work than get hand-outs. More jobs, more people spending money, more tax dollars collected...

PS - I think the CBC is a reincarnation of the TASS

[gerryhatrick]

He does not speak for anyone earning $45,000 a year or more... which is the vast majority of our population.

I'm sorry, but that is just a dumb statement. I don't like Jack Layton at all myself, but I know several individuals who earn more than that who voted NDP.

[SamStranger]

He does not speak for anyone earning $45,000 a year or more... which is the vast majority of our population.

I'm sorry, but that is just a dumb statement. I don't like Jack Layton at all myself, but I know several individuals who earn more than that who voted NDP.

Then their stupid, becuase the Tories are the only party who wants to give tax cuts that will eft middle and high class people. Low class people will never see a tax cut that will break them into the middle calss range,, so its not worth it. They should just get better jobs.

[BubberMiley]

Have you ever considered that having a stable population with a social safety net actually benefits you economically? Haven't you noticed that, since World War II when modern western social programs were established, western economies have boomed enormously? Do you think that's just coincidence? Have you also not noticed that the economies of countries where there were no such social programs, like in South America--which, by the way, was miles ahead of us economically until the first half of the 20th century--have tanked? Social programs create wealth for everyone in that they create a stable social climate which is good for doing business and attractive for investment.

[tml12]

[quote name='BubberMiley' date='Feb 1 2006, 09:43 PM' post='94192'

Have you ever considered that having a stable population with a social safety net actually benefits you economically? Haven't you noticed that, since World War II when modern western social programs were established, western economies have boomed enormously? Do you think that's just coincidence? Have you also not noticed that the economies of countries where there were no such social programs, like in South America--which, by the way, was miles ahead of us economically until the first half of the 20th century--have tanked? Social programs create wealth for everyone in that they create a stable social climate which is good for doing business and attractive for investment.

Bubber,

The weed must be good in Winnipeg. I think I am moving there...

[gerryhatrick]

He does not speak for anyone earning $45,000 a year or more... which is the vast majority of our population.

I'm sorry, but that is just a dumb statement. I don't like Jack Layton at all myself, but I know several individuals who earn more than that who voted NDP.

Then their stupid, becuase the Tories are the only party who wants to give tax cuts that will eft middle and high class people. Low class people will never see a tax cut that will break them into the middle calss range,, so its not worth it. They should just get better jobs.

Is that all that matters to you, "tax cuts"?

These people with good jobs who vote NDP do so for a variety of reasons. They're not one-issue voters, as you appear to be.

[BubberMiley]

Bubber,

The weed must be good in Winnipeg. I think I am moving there...

Better than B.C. I'd say.