Pedophiles waiting in line....

[Black Dog]

The point I'm making is that success of the Gay Rights Movement opens the door for others.

Wife-Swapping, swinging is now very acceptable...according to our Supreme Court. Apparently our courts are very confident that nobody is getting hurt....psychologically manipulated...coerced....in participating in these acts. Women are all strong now that to think that anyone is in anyway abused or coerced to degrading acts is just being silly.

So what was the uproar all about about when the Supreme Court sez practically that these are just normal acts and must be tolerated....since we live in a very tolerant society?

Um...swinging is legal. Always has been. The SCCC ruling dealt with the leaglity of clubs for people engaged in wife/husband swapping. Also: given the nature of the activity, its entirely reasonable to operate on the assumption that the vast majority of swingers are consenting adults.

Hicksey mentioned about polygamy....because polygamy is now following close to the heels of the Gay Rights Movement when they succeeded in changing the traditional definition of marriage.

Polygamy advocates are now challenging the the words "ONE man, ONE woman."

And interestingly enough, they are challenging the "traditional" definition of marriage on the basis that it restricts their freedom of religion: the same argument used by religious groups oppossed to SSM. Isn't it ironic, don't you think?

Really: as long as everyone involved is an adult and knows what they are getting into, who cares?

Acceptance of bestiality is not far behind. A woman got "married" in a televised ceremony to a....dolphin.

This may be a tongue-in-cheek scenario right now....but how long before someone demands "equal" rights?

So, why shouldn't pedophiles have their rights too? I mean....let's be fair here.

After all, a Gay magazine contends that there's no harm with boys having sex with older men....just think of it as positive mentoring.

What do pedophilia and bestiality have to do with relationships between consenting adults?? Because that's an essential element that gay relationships, swinging and even polygamous marriages don't share with those behaviours.

[Montgomery Burns]

The pedos who are nabbed at perverted-justice.com have come on to young girls and boys.

The communist organization, ACLU, has defended the NAMBLA sickos.

The Conservatives wanted Canada's age of consent to be upped to 16 y/o from 14 y/o, but the Liberals refused.

[betsy]

What do pedophilia and bestiality have to do with relationships between consenting adults?? Because that's an essential element that gay relationships, swinging and even polygamous marriages don't share with those behaviours.

Consenting adults.

Then why is the age of consent being lobbied by the Gay Group to be lowered?

[kimmy]

What do pedophilia and bestiality have to do with relationships between consenting adults?? Because that's an essential element that gay relationships, swinging and even polygamous marriages don't share with those behaviours.

Consenting adults.

Then why is the age of consent being lobbied by the Gay Group to be lowered?

*which* "gay group" is advocating for lowering the age of consent. You need to be *very* specific when you're making a claim like this.

-k

[Hicksey]

What do pedophilia and bestiality have to do with relationships between consenting adults?? Because that's an essential element that gay relationships, swinging and even polygamous marriages don't share with those behaviours.

Consenting adults.

Then why is the age of consent being lobbied by the Gay Group to be lowered?

*which* "gay group" is advocating for lowering the age of consent. You need to be *very* specific when you're making a claim like this.

-k

Its NAMBLA itself. It's not a gay/lesbian group, rather a pedophilia group.

[betsy]

Perhaps you should read the rest of the article, which demonstrates that NAMBLA has been rejected by mainstream gay organizations:

Exactly. But you would think that for a group that had a long struggle to achieve what they want to do without being further encumbered by the bad publicity of being associated with NAMBLA....one would think that the most logical step is not to do anything that would raise the spectre of suspicion.

Not only do their magazines apparently say or advertise otherwise....but to go as far as lobbying for the age of consent to be lowered?

Can you blame me if I think that publicly rejecting NAMBLA was just a political move? Openly sticking with NAMBLA would have meant the Gay Movement would have faced a dead-end. They would never have gathered massive supports from mainstream society if they openly advocated pedophilia....or would they?

I am questioning that!

[Black Dog]

Consenting adults.

Then why is the age of consent being lobbied by the Gay Group to be lowered?

As far as I know, the only aspect of the age of consent laws that mainstream gay groups like EGALE want changed is that which sets the age of consent for anal sex higher than that for other forms of sex. I'm not aware of any movement to lower to AoC below its current level.

Not only do their magazines apparently say or advertise otherwise....but to go as far as lobbying for the age of consent to be lowered?

Your evidence is a tiny handful of debatable points raised in the "WorldNet" article (not exactly an unbiased source BTW) by some ex-politician noted for propigating "research" who's findings run contrary to pretty much every bit of research ever done on the subject of pedophilia. I'm not about to take it too seriously.

Can you blame me if I think that publicly rejecting NAMBLA was just a political move? Openly sticking with NAMBLA would have meant the Gay Movement would have faced a dead-end. They would never have gathered massive supports from mainstream society if they openly advocated pedophilia....or would they?

Right. So "hidden agendas" are for gay groups not, say, mainstream Canadian political parties.

[betsy]

Consenting adults.

Then why is the age of consent being lobbied by the Gay Group to be lowered?

As far as I know, the only aspect of the age of consent laws that mainstream gay groups like EGALE want changed is that which sets the age of consent for anal sex higher than that for other forms of sex. I'm not aware of any movement to lower to AoC below its current level.

Did you click on the links I provided?

[betsy]

More recently, media reports have suggested that for practical purposes the group no longer exists and that it consists only of a web site maintained by a few enthusiasts.

Apparently there was a class action lawsuit against members of NAMBLA. I've read it from one of the links provided.

[Black Dog]

See edits above.

[justcrowing]

What do pedophilia and bestiality have to do with relationships between consenting adults?? Because that's an essential element that gay relationships, swinging and even polygamous marriages don't share with those behaviours.

Consenting adults.

Then why is the age of consent being lobbied by the Gay Group to be lowered?

And wasn't Svend Robinson one of the advocates for lowering the age of consent?

[justcrowing]

What all these minority rights boil down to is that it does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds. Anyone notice how masterfully this is being achieved? According to socialists we should have no social order or traditions - anything goes because it is a right. The fire has been lit by our Charter.

[justcrowing]

About swingers - obviously the adults do not believe in doing their swinging privately. Oh, I forgot, it must be part of a child's education. The fun has just begun.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/WeirdNews/2006...1377340-ap.html

Soccer parents upset about swinger party

ORLANDO, Fla. (AP) - Some teenage players and their parents got to see more than they bargained for while attending a Disney soccer showcase, all courtesy of about 200 swingers who were having a New Year's party at their hotel.

Paul Camporini brought his wife, seventh-grade daughter and eighth-grade son from Safety Harbor, Fla., and said he had to "delicately explain to my Catholic school children that swingers change partners during the evening."

"My biggest gripe is that the hotel had two distinctly different groups under the same roof," said Camporini, 49. "A soccer team and middle-aged swingers should not have been booked together."

The families said the sexually adventurous partygoers sometimes flashed breasts and bare buttocks in front of the children as they sashayed through the hotel atrium. The parents described the dress at the Crowne Plaza Hotel-Airport in Orlando as "raunchy, despicable and worse than prostitutes."

"We thought we were coming to Orlando, not the Las Vegas Strip," said Mark Gilbert, the father of a boy who plays on the Clearwater Chargers, a group of 13-under players from Florida.

The teams booked the $92-a-night rooms for Disney's Soccer Showcase, and said hotel management did not tell them about the swingers' party or try to keep the partygoers away from the children.

The kids could see through the glass atrium into the ballroom where naked people were dancing. There were exposed breasts, thongs and see-through dresses on women who were not wearing any underwear."

[I Miss Trudeau]

About swingers - obviously the adults do not believe in doing their swinging privately. Oh, I forgot, it must be part of a child's education. The fun has just begun.

Perhaps you could enlighten me as to how the behaviour of those people at the hotel is analogous to swingers conducting their business within the confined of a private club? Until such time as you can defend that absurd analogy, you're just spouting nonsensical rhetoric.

[tml12]

What do pedophilia and bestiality have to do with relationships between consenting adults?? Because that's an essential element that gay relationships, swinging and even polygamous marriages don't share with those behaviours.

Consenting adults.

Then why is the age of consent being lobbied by the Gay Group to be lowered?

And wasn't Svend Robinson one of the advocates for lowering the age of consent?

You know what I think about the age of consent? I think we shouldn't have it. Some kids are ready for sex at 12 or 13. But with kids their own age...I wouldn't want a 40 year old having sex with a 12 year old.

I would support instead having a law where no one over 25 should have sex with anyone under 16.

[Black Dog]

What all these minority rights boil down to is that it does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds.

Yeah, like women, blacks, and all those other uppity minorities that have histroically demanded equal treatment.

According to socialists we should have no social order or traditions - anything goes because it is a right.

The fundamental underpining of democracy is the freedom to do whatever the heck you want, so long as no one else is harmed I don't see how it's any business of yours or the governement to determine what moral precepts other people are required to follow.

[betsy]

Right. So "hidden agendas" are for gay groups not, say, mainstream Canadian political parties.

You said it.

You got to admit though...a lot of questions beg to be answered...just so to clear the air and erase doubts and suspicions.

Why is the Gay Rights Movement sticking its nose to the pedophiles' turf? What's in it for them?

So why the lobbying for the age of consent, of all things...especially if they want to bust that statistical report and research findings that there is a co-relation between homosexuality and pedophilia?

What's young children got to do with consenting adults?

[betsy]

What do pedophilia and bestiality have to do with relationships between consenting adults?? Because that's an essential element that gay relationships, swinging and even polygamous marriages don't share with those behaviours.

Consenting adults.

Then why is the age of consent being lobbied by the Gay Group to be lowered?

And wasn't Svend Robinson one of the advocates for lowering the age of consent?

Wasn't he the one too who advocated the gag law?

[justcrowing]

If memory serves me correctly, I believe he was. So much for freedom of speech.

What do pedophilia and bestiality have to do with relationships between consenting adults?? Because that's an essential element that gay relationships, swinging and even polygamous marriages don't share with those behaviours.

Consenting adults.

Then why is the age of consent being lobbied by the Gay Group to be lowered?

And wasn't Svend Robinson one of the advocates for lowering the age of consent?

Wasn't he the one too who advocated the gag law?

[fellowtraveller]

Hicksey mentioned about polygamy....because polygamy is now following close to the heels of the Gay Rights Movement when they succeeded in changing the traditional definition of marriage.

Polygamy advocates are now challenging the the words "ONE man, ONE woman."

Acceptance of bestiality is not far behind. A woman got "married" in a televised ceremony to a....dolphin.

This may be a tongue-in-cheek scenario right now....but how long before someone demands "equal" rights?

So, why shouldn't pedophiles have their rights too? I mean....let's be fair here.

After all, a Gay magazine contends that there's no harm with boys having sex with older men....just think of it as positive mentoring.

Betsy, I understand your concern, but these comments are completely over the top!

Polygamists may not fit your definition of what is acceptable in Canadian society, but we are about to discover that they fit the Supreme Courts vision - and our Charter will support that vision. So, may I suggest you campaign for a change in the Charter? Note that it will necessarily require that the recently won rights for gay/lesbian citizens be repealed too. Which is just not going to happen. The case for polygamy is essentially the same case must made for same sex marriage - minority rights. And, if the defintion of marriage MUST be expanded to include various cominations of genders, why shouldn't it alos be amended to include more than two persons? Please note that any argument related to the Bible or tradition is an automatic non-starter.

Bestiality and pedophilia will not be allowed, since they don't involve consenting adults. It's that simple. Your comments also imply that their is a direct link between homosexuality and pedophilia, which is simply not true. Certainly some homosexuals are also pedophiles, but some heterosexuals are also pedophiles. Do you also believe that all men are rapists because some men are rapists? Do you believe that all women are promiscuous because some women are promiscuous?

[Hicksey]

What do pedophilia and bestiality have to do with relationships between consenting adults?? Because that's an essential element that gay relationships, swinging and even polygamous marriages don't share with those behaviours.

Consenting adults.

Then why is the age of consent being lobbied by the Gay Group to be lowered?

And wasn't Svend Robinson one of the advocates for lowering the age of consent?

Wasn't he the one too who advocated the gag law?

Here's couple of other things he advocates ...

1983: He is thrown out of the House of Commons after accusing Speaker Jeanne Sauvé of being "in cahoots" with the government. That year, he is also temporarily stripped of his job as justice critic after he tells a Vancouver TV show that he supported the establishment of red-light districts and houses of prostitution.

1999: Alexa McDonough relegates Robinson to the backbenches after he tables a petition calling for the word "God" to be removed from the preamble of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

No word on the CLBC (Candian Liberal Broadcasting Company) website on the gag law though.

[fellowtraveller]

1983: He is thrown out of the House of Commons after accusing Speaker Jeanne Sauvé of being "in cahoots" with the government. That year, he is also temporarily stripped of his job as justice critic after he tells a Vancouver TV show that he supported the establishment of red-light districts and houses of prostitution.

1999: Alexa McDonough relegates Robinson to the backbenches after he tables a petition calling for the word "God" to be removed from the preamble of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

Do you agree or disagree with these ideas?

[Hicksey]

1983: He is thrown out of the House of Commons after accusing Speaker Jeanne Sauvé of being "in cahoots" with the government. That year, he is also temporarily stripped of his job as justice critic after he tells a Vancouver TV show that he supported the establishment of red-light districts and houses of prostitution.

1999: Alexa McDonough relegates Robinson to the backbenches after he tables a petition calling for the word "God" to be removed from the preamble of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

Do you agree or disagree with these ideas?

Disagree with both.

[Black Dog]

You got to admit though...a lot of questions beg to be answered...just so to clear the air and erase doubts and suspicions.

Why is the Gay Rights Movement sticking its nose to the pedophiles' turf? What's in it for them?

What are you on about? Again, there's no active movement within the gay rights movement to lower the age of consent (except in cases where the law discriminated between different forms of sexual activity). If there are any such examples of mainstream gay groups advocating for the AoC to be lowered, by all means show some.

So why the lobbying for the age of consent, of all things...especially if they want to bust that statistical report and research findings that there is a co-relation between homosexuality and pedophilia?

There's mountains of research showing that no such correlation exisits. For example, one study of 175 male adults who had been convicted in Massachusetts of child sexual assault found that none of them were homosexuals; all of them would fit the description of a fixated child molester ( that is: they were sexually attracted only to children and not to other adults). The problem with attempting to draw a correlation is what I call the "plumber" problem: fixing a sink doesn't make one a plumber; in the same vein, a pedophile who molests kids of the same sex is not necessarily homosexual, something right-wing anti-gay folks can't get their heads around.

(To digress a moment: I had to chortle at the WorldNut article's "shocking" finding that gay culture is "youth-oriented", as though mainstream heterosexual culture wasn't rife with imagery equating youth and sexual desierability, from Brazillian waxes to Britney Spears.)

[Hicksey]

You got to admit though...a lot of questions beg to be answered...just so to clear the air and erase doubts and suspicions.

Why is the Gay Rights Movement sticking its nose to the pedophiles' turf? What's in it for them?

What are you on about? Again, there's no active movement within the gay rights movement to lower the age of consent (except in cases where the law discriminated between different forms of sexual activity). If there are any such examples of mainstream gay groups advocating for the AoC to be lowered, by all means show some.

So why the lobbying for the age of consent, of all things...especially if they want to bust that statistical report and research findings that there is a co-relation between homosexuality and pedophilia?

There's mountains of research showing that no such correlation exisits. For example, one study of 175 male adults who had been convicted in Massachusetts of child sexual assault found that none of them were homosexuals; all of them would fit the description of a fixated child molester ( that is: they were sexually attracted only to children and not to other adults). The problem with attempting to draw a correlation is what I call the "plumber" problem: fixing a sink doesn't make one a plumber; in the same vein, a pedophile who molests kids of the same sex is not necessarily homosexual, something right-wing anti-gay folks can't get their heads around.

(To digress a moment: I had to chortle at the WorldNut article's "shocking" finding that gay culture is "youth-oriented", as though mainstream heterosexual culture wasn't rife with imagery equating youth and sexual desierability, from Brazillian waxes to Britney Spears.)

It sucks to have to defend BD here, but here goes.

IT HAS BEEN SAID OVER AND OVER THAT IT IS NAMBLA THAT IS BRINGING HOMOSEXUALITY INTO THEIR DEBATE TO USE THE PREMISE UNDER WHICH IT WAS ALLOWED TO GET THEIR OWN AGENDA LEGALIZED.

GAYS ARE NOT INVOLVED EXCEPT THE SCOC RULING THAT ALLOWED GAY MARRIAGE IS BEING TRUMPETED BY NAMBLA TO GET PEDOPHILIA LEGALIZED. IN NO WAY HAVE HOMOSEXUAL GROUPS ENDORSED THIS.