Hefty pensions ease Grit fall

[justcrowing]

This should make those who retired on less than $20,000 happy especially those who have a percentage of their pensions clawed back by government if their income is a bit above the poverty level. Do you think these MP pensioners will be subject to any clawbacks? Somehow I doubt it.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...ialNewTory2006/

Hefty pensions ease the fall

y TERRY PEDWELL

Tuesday, January 24, 2006 Posted at 6:53 PM EST

Canadian Press

Ottawa — Taxpayers needn't shed a tear for members of Parliament who were defeated in Monday's federal election or left politics before the vote: they stand to collect $74.6-million in pensions and severance.

Four of the 67 retiring MPs — all of them Liberals — could each collect more than $3-million before they turn 75, estimates calculated by the Canadian Taxpayers Federation suggest.

Shed no tears for retiring or defeated MPs. They are being well looked after by Canadian taxpayers.”

The biggest annual pension recipients include Liberals Ethel Blondin-Andrew, at $137,820, and Don Boudria, at $135,906. Outgoing Deputy Prime Minister Anne McLellan is set to receive more than $100,000 annually.

Ms. Blondin-Andrew would collect the most of any MP if she lives to 75, with her pension and severance package estimated to total $3,797,929.

Two MPs — Independent Bev Desjarlais and Odina Desrochers of the Bloc Quebecois — will collect the smallest pensions, each receiving just over $40,000 annually.

Exact pension and severance figures are kept secret by the federal government under the Privacy Act. However, the formula for making the calculations is publicly available.

The basic formula is far from basic. It's based on how many years an MP was in office before departing, multiplied by compounding interest rates that differ from one term to another, and multiplied again by annual salary, averaged over the five-year period during which the MP earned the most.

[scribblet]

Most pensions are based on years of sevice and not payable until retirement age - lets hope eventually the CPC will do something about those gold plated pensions.

[normanchateau]

Most pensions are based on years of sevice and not payable until retirement age - lets hope eventually the CPC will do something about those gold plated pensions.

Don't hold your breath. As I recall, the Reform Party opted out. Then they opted back in. Why would you expect the latest batch of Conservatives to be less selfish than their Reform predecessors (or Liberals)?

[scribblet]

Most pensions are based on years of sevice and not payable until retirement age - lets hope eventually the CPC will do something about those gold plated pensions.

Don't hold your breath. As I recall, the Reform Party opted out. Then they opted back in. Why would you expect the latest batch of Conservatives to be less selfish than their Reform predecessors (or Liberals)?

Than you are recalling wrong, unless you are deliberately baiting. The Reform MP's opted back in because Chretien passed legislation making it mandatory - they didn't have a choice. But I suspect you know that.

[normanchateau]

Most pensions are based on years of sevice and not payable until retirement age - lets hope eventually the CPC will do something about those gold plated pensions.

Don't hold your breath. As I recall, the Reform Party opted out. Then they opted back in. Why would you expect the latest batch of Conservatives to be less selfish than their Reform predecessors (or Liberals)?

Than you are recalling wrong, unless you are deliberately baiting. The Reform MP's opted back in because Chretien passed legislation making it mandatory - they didn't have a choice. But I suspect you know that.

You are changing history. At least four MPs opted back in before the legislation was even proposed.

But this wasn't the first broken Reform Party promise. Remember Preston Manning's promise not to move into Stornaway?

[Shakeyhands]

lets all try to remember that ALL MP's who lose out are given severance packages, its not just the Liberals...

I remember the same hoopla when Mulroony lost...

Can we all try to be a little less partisan now???? Its over for Gods sake.

[tml12]

lets all try to remember that ALL MP's who lose out are given severance packages, its not just the Liberals...

I remember the same hoopla when Mulroony lost...

Can we all try to be a little less partisan now???? Its over for Gods sake.

I would still like to see them cut in a completely non-partisan fashion.

[fixer1]

I also hope that the pension issue for MP's is once again visited by this government, but it would be nice to see just how all parties would act on this issue, especially now that it is a minority government. It would really be telling in other ways, as well. Let's just hope it comes up during this first part of the term.

[scribblet]

I also hope that the pension issue for MP's is once again visited by this government, but it would be nice to see just how all parties would act on this issue, especially now that it is a minority government. It would really be telling in other ways, as well. Let's just hope it comes up during this first part of the term.

So do I, and I do believe it was changed somewhat at the same time it became compulsory. Not quite as much gold plating.

[justcrowing]

Most pensions are based on years of sevice and not payable until retirement age - lets hope eventually the CPC will do something about those gold plated pensions.

Don't hold your breath. As I recall, the Reform Party opted out. Then they opted back in. Why would you expect the latest batch of Conservatives to be less selfish than their Reform predecessors (or Liberals)?

Or NDP - who when turfed out of power in BC gave themselves a lucrative severence packages. Wonder if the two NDPers elected took their severence and then their MPs pay? Nothing said about that!! NDP also tried to blackmail the voters by saying "elect us back and you won't have to pay severence".

[fellowtraveller]

I'm of two minds on MP pensions.

The amount of the pension often seems excessive compared to the number of years of service.

On the other hand .... using Anne McLellan as an example...

She has served 12 years in the House, from age 43 to 55. She left a successful career as a professor to do so - which chopped 12 prime years out of her pensionable service there. Whatever partial pension she might get from her previous career, it is certainly going to be adversely affected - as will her career path overall as a law professor.

So maybe they do have an entitlement- though perhaps not so much.

Perhaps a compromise would be a straight up, onetime separation payment so they can do their own pension scheme.

[sage]

I'm all for the pension. Perhaps someday we'll actually get the best and the brightest in Parliament. It is a little hard to swallow at times though given some of the dummies that get elected.

As for the Reform party pension stuff earlier on the thread, the fact was that they were crowing about excessive pensions, so the Lib's passed legislation making it mandatory, but you could opt out. This effectively made the Reform MP's the only people not receiving a pension. Numerous Reform MP's ate their words and did not opt out (i.e. accepted their pension). Other's took the high road.

For what its worth, Harper isn't a member of the pension plan.

[shoop]

What?

Anne's career has not been adversely affected at all due to her time in government.

She will likely be a leading candidate for the permanent Dean of the Faculty of Law in any university in the country. She might even be considered for the Presidency of some Universities, despite not having a doctorate. (Remember she only served as *acting* dean at the U of A)

Maxing out her pension at the U of A would never have allowed her to retire this young and collect anywhere near the money she is collecting from the Parliamentary pension scheme.

Whatever partial pension she might get from her previous career, it is certainly going to be adversely affected - as will her career path overall as a law professor.

[sage]

One problem with the current setup is it doesn't take into account any lobbying fees these MP's get after they are punted.

[August1991]

I'm all for the pension. Perhaps someday we'll actually get the best and the brightest in Parliament. It is a little hard to swallow at times though given some of the dummies that get elected.

Trudeau changed the pension scheme, and gave ordinary MPs budgets for a riding office, staff and so on, in part, to make the job more attractive and also to help MPs do there job.

There's another reason too, perhaps more important. Think how much damage a desperate MP can do to hang onto the perks. Or, think how much damage a retiring MP can do trying to lobby to get a sinecure somewhere.

This pension is a cheap way to get rid of these guys if we compare it to how much it could cost us if there were no pension.

The Left naively believes that life is a choice between the bad and the perfect. In fact, life is too often a choice between the bad and the far worse.

[fellowtraveller]

What?

Anne's career has not been adversely affected at all due to her time in government.

She will likely be a leading candidate for the permanent Dean of the Faculty of Law in any university in the country. She might even be considered for the Presidency of some Universities, despite not having a doctorate. (Remember she only served as *acting* dean at the U of A)

Maxing out her pension at the U of A would never have allowed her to retire this young and collect anywhere near the money she is collecting from the Parliamentary pension scheme.

Whatever partial pension she might get from her previous career, it is certainly going to be adversely affected - as will her career path overall as a law professor.

Sure, but missing 12 years out your pension plan at that age will most certainly affect the pension due to her from the U of A. The time cannot be recovered. It is more than replaced by her Parliamentary pension, as qualified in my previous post. All I'm saying is that some compensation, pension or payout, is appropriate. You'd get some compensation scheme almost anywhere you worked at that level of responsibility, why should an MP get less?

[scribblet]

What?

Anne's career has not been adversely affected at all due to her time in government.

She will likely be a leading candidate for the permanent Dean of the Faculty of Law in any university in the country. She might even be considered for the Presidency of some Universities, despite not having a doctorate. (Remember she only served as *acting* dean at the U of A)

Maxing out her pension at the U of A would never have allowed her to retire this young and collect anywhere near the money she is collecting from the Parliamentary pension scheme.

Whatever partial pension she might get from her previous career, it is certainly going to be adversely affected - as will her career path overall as a law professor.

Sure, but missing 12 years out your pension plan at that age will most certainly affect the pension due to her from the U of A. The time cannot be recovered. It is more than replaced by her Parliamentary pension, as qualified in my previous post. All I'm saying is that some compensation, pension or payout, is appropriate. You'd get some compensation scheme almost anywhere you worked at that level of responsibility, why should an MP get less?

Actually it can be recovered, usually you can buy back the years of service if you are rehired. Its costly you have to pay both employer and employee. However, I'm guessing she won't need to with the hefty MP's pension she'll get.

[tml12]

Oh come on guys. Landslide Annie is well taken care of.

And if she ever needed money all she would have to do is wait for the Liberal government to come back to power and then, as chair of the "Option Alberta" group she can make some "hard earned" (read taxpayer stolen) money and get on with her life...

[fellowtraveller]

Actually it can be recovered, usually you can buy back the years of service if you are rehired. Its costly you have to pay both employer and employee. However, I'm guessing she won't need to with the hefty MP's pension she'll get.

Sure. At $15K per year, that's around $180K cash money. If she worked to 65, that would be a 18K per year payback. And that is the 'noble' purpose of MP pensions, to compensate you for the years you take out of your career, and out of pensionable service elswhere, including self-directed pensions.

The idea is not at all unreasonable, but the level of payout may be.

[scribblet]

Actually it can be recovered, usually you can buy back the years of service if you are rehired. Its costly you have to pay both employer and employee. However, I'm guessing she won't need to with the hefty MP's pension she'll get.

Sure. At $15K per year, that's around $180K cash money. If she worked to 65, that would be a 18K per year payback. And that is the 'noble' purpose of MP pensions, to compensate you for the years you take out of your career, and out of pensionable service elswhere, including self-directed pensions.

The idea is not at all unreasonable, but the level of payout may be.

Where did you get the 15k from, sounds high?

[uOttawaMan]

The Left naively believes that life is a choice between the bad and the perfect. In fact, life is too often a choice between the bad and the far worse.

Aww how cute.. and poetic. And cynical.

Meh, only reason people are complaining is because they cant make that kind of pension.

[August1991]

The Left naively believes that life is a choice between the bad and the perfect. In fact, life is too often a choice between the bad and the far worse.

Aww how cute.. and poetic. And cynical.

Meh, only reason people are complaining is because they cant make that kind of pension.

There seems to be a perception here that an MP's pension is somehow connected to money paid in, or replaces somehow pension-contributions foregone because of a leap to political life. I'll have none of it.

If an MP serves more than 6 years, they immediately get a pension for life, regardless of their age or what they do later in life. IOW, they win the lottery.

Why do we do this?

Because, while this is expensive, it is probably cheaper than if we didn't do it. Call me cynical but that's life. If someone has an even cheaper way to deal with the problem, I'm all ears but pardon me if I'll be suspicious.

One way to limit the damage would be to have fewer MPs.

----

To put this in perspective, the best thing Canada could do right now for third world aid would be to offer Robert Mugabe a gold-plated pension and a chateau in the south of France.