Is this the way Conservatives think?

[arif]

The mayor of carleton place made these statements in his column in our newspaper before christmas. I'm bringing it up because it's why some conservatives scare people. And it's so outrageous I'm obsessed with it and can't get it off my mind. Thankyou to the councillors who rejected Dulmage's comments.

It seems pretty obvious who the mayor of carleton place, where i live, will vote for. Is this the way conservatives think? Is this a marginal far-right view? how will Stephen Harper deal with this type of thinking among those who support the Conservatives all the time, not only those who are voting for them as an alternative to liberal corruption. Stephen Harper has appeared more moderate, but is this just to win the election?

Are there any conservatives out there who will state their rejection of these nationalist, anti-immigrant views?

Arif

CARLETON PLACE -- Four members of town council stood up publicly for multiculturalism here Tuesday night, taking a loud and clear stand against a Christmas newspaper column by Mayor Paul Dulmage.

Feeling "the season was right," Dulmage used his regular Mayor's Corner column in last week's Carleton Place Canadian to lash out at pressure from non-Christian minorities which he claimed had diluted the celebration of Christmas.

"We've gone so far the other way, bent over backwards to not offend anyone, that I am now being offended. But it seems that no one has a problem with that," Dulmage wrote in the column which primarily quoted remarks he pulled from an unnamed Internet source.

"This idea of Canada being a multicultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity," Dulmage quoted the source. "If you wish to become part of our society, learn the language.

"If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home ... because God is part of our culture," the mayor repeated from the source.

'RIGHT TO LEAVE'

"But once you are done complaining, whining and griping about our flag, our pledge, our national motto, or our way of life, I highly encourage you to take advantage of our one other Great Canadian Freedom ... the right to leave."

Using the platform of the regularly scheduled planning and development committee meeting, council members Brian Doucett and Art Quartermain and Deputy Mayor Linda Schmidt backed Coun. Wendy Leblanc as she read a statement critical of Dulmage's column.

"We recognize that our community is home to families of different origins, races, colours and creeds," the councillor read. "We acknowledge that our community life is richer, more vibrant and stronger because of the contributions of all our citizens and, as a council, we will continue to do our utmost to ensure that all the citizens of Carleton Place live peaceable lives, free of discrimination."

Taking the floor, an unrepentant Dulmage claimed the group of councillors had missed the point. He didn't elaborate. Coun. Gerald Kirby backed the mayor and Coun. Dennis Burn did not stand in support of the statement from the other councillors and did not comment.

PERSONAL POSITION

Later Dulmage told the Sun he received hundreds of e-mails and voice messages in support of his stand after his column got national TV coverage.

He criticized council members for politicizing what for him was a personal position on Christmas. He added he won't be dissuaded from running again for mayor next November.

Doucett said council guidelines allow members to make statements on any topic before officially opening a meeting.

No motion was presented and no action of any kind recommended because councillors who took the action didn't want to draw out the situation.

Doucett slammed Dulmage for a "knee-jerk reaction" in blaming non-Christian new Canadians for the politically correct treatment of Christmas.

"There's nothing wrong with criticizing the commercialization of Christmas," the councillor said. "If the mayor would have apologized for offending anyone, he might have been off the hook."

In a paid newspaper ad placed independently of council, Doucett said he found Dulmage's remarks "completely unacceptable in the modern global community we are a part of and are based on myth, opinion and innuendo rather than fact and truth. History has shown that people must speak out against such attitudes."

When introducing the quoted comments in the Canadian, Dulmage, in his own words, railed against the "pressure from non-Christian faiths to dilute the celebration of the birth of Christ," including the custom of wishing "Season's Greetings" instead of "Merry Christmas."

This, he wrote, goes against the sensibilities of most Canadians who are "Christians of many faiths that believe in God."

Dulmage signed off noting the column had little to do with politics, "but I had to get it off my chest and I felt the season was right."

[Hydraboss]

And what, exactly, did he say that was incorrect? Christmas (read: celebration of the birth of Christ, not "Can I have a RoboRaptor?") has been celebrated in this country since the beginning. MOST of the immigrant origin countries celebrate it as a holy time, until the doors were flung wide open to everyone. I have no problem with Canada accepting people of all nations and religions, but when exactly were we forced to dilute our beliefs because someone from the Isle of Widget found it offensive. EQUALITY means equality for all, not just new immigrants.

[kimmy]

In Australia last month, Muslim and Jewish groups were campaigning to have Christmas renamed, so as to not offend non-Christians.

The day that happens in Canada is the day that I will start a campaign to have Ramadan renamed "Weight Loss Month", and Hanukkah to be renamed "National Candle Week".

I'm not even a Christian. But I take offense at the idea of people campaigning against others' traditions.

The overwhelming majority of Christians in Canada respect the traditions of non-Christian groups, and only ask in return that their own traditions also be respected.

-k

{I want a RoboRaptor too! }

[Hydraboss]

But, but....YOU MUST BE CHRISTIAN....you're voting conservative!!! Where's your bible? Did you leave it at the last Gay Bash?

[PocketRocket]

The day that happens in Canada is the day that I will start a campaign to have Ramadan renamed "Weight Loss Month", and Hanukkah to be renamed "National Candle Week".

Funniest thing I've seen here in weeks.

{I want a RoboRaptor too! }

What the hell is a Roboraptor????

[Leafless]

arif

You wrote- " Im bringing it up because it's why some conservatives scare people."

What the hell does this have to do with being a Conservative?

People like you scare me!

[Bryan]

There's nothing controversial or offensive about what he the Mayor said. He speaks the truth. Equality of all includes equality for those who already have established traditions.

Trying for force people to change Christmas (for any reason), now THAT is offensive.

[Hydraboss]

This issue is non-partisan, or at least it should be. I have (gulp!)..friends who are liberals (they're in therapy) who are equally offended everytime they hear "Seasons Greetings" instead of "Merry Christmas". People of all political stripes have the right to be choked by the strangling of the rights of the many. Want to see what happens to Kimmy if she goes to "a Middle Eastern country" and tries to walk around without a veil or lets her knees show? Wanna see tolerance? Yet we, as a society, will respect ALL the traditions of other cultures without question.

Anyone remember the still-ongoing battle over Sheria (sp) Law?????????

And a RoboRaptor is that robotic, remote controlled dinosaur you see on The Source (Radio Shack) commercials. My kid has one, but the grown-ups play with it more.

p.s. - this is what the alphabet would look like without Q and R.

[Hicksey]

Will we still be the Country of choice and still be Canada if we continue to make the changes forced on us by the people from other countries that came to live in Canada because it is the Country of Choice?

Think about it!

All we have to say is, when will they do something about MY RIGHTS?

I celebrate Christmas but …

Because it isn't celebrated by everyone we can no longer say Merry Christmas. Now it has to be Season's Greetings.

It's not Christmas vacation, it's Winter Break. Isn't it amazing how this winter break ALWAYS occurs over the Christmas holiday?

We've gone so far the other way, bent over backwards to not offend anyone, that I am now being offended. But it seems that no one has a problem with that.

IMMIGRANTS, NOT Canadians MUST ADAPT.

I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Sept. 11, we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Canadians. However, the dust from the attacks had barely settled when the "Politically Correct" crowd began complaining about the possibility that our patriotism was offending others.

I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to Canada. Our population is almost entirely made up of descendants of immigrants. However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand.

This idea of Canada being a multicultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity.

As Canadians …

We have our own culture,

Our own society,

Our own language and

Our own lifestyle.

This culture has been developed over centuries of struggles, trials, and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom.

We speak ENGLISH and FRENCH.

NOT Spanish, Portuguese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language.

If you wish to become part of our society, learn the language!

"We Stand On Guard For Thee" is our national motto. This is not some Christian, right wing, political slogan.

We adopted this motto because Christian men and women, guided by Christian principles and values, founded this nation. This has been clearly documented.

It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools, government buildings and as a nativity scene in our front yard at Christmas.

If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home because whether you like it or not, God is part of our culture.

We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really don't care how you did things where you came from.

This is OUR COUNTRY, our land, and our lifestyle.

But once you are done complaining, whining and griping about our flag, our national motto, or our way of life … I highly encourage you to take advantage of one other Great Canadian Freedom …

THE RIGHT TO LEAVE.

It is Time for Canadians to Speak up

If you agree, pass this along;

If you don't agree, delete it!

AMEN!

I figure if we all keep passing this to our friends (and enemies) it will, sooner or later, get back to the complainers.

Lets all try, please.

Considering the direct quote I wonder if this is all BS. Source please.

For your reading pleasure, here's the rest of the rant.

[arif]

yikes,

ok, let's not add to the misunderstandings in this great country, so let me explain what is wrong with what dulmage said and why it's not based on truth. Please understand that I prefer Merry Christmas myself, that I'm all for preserving Christmas traditions. And I'm sorry I was scary, I'm not actually scared myself of conservatives as people, but quite flummoxed by some of the far-right ideas. I guess I was looking for any moderate consensus amongst conservatives that a Stephen Harper government is not going to promote backlash against immigrants or any minorities. I thought folks might see what went wrong in the thinking. And it's true it's not a partisan issue, but I haven't ever heard any of the other parties oppose multiculturalism. My approach wasn't good. Ok, here's my thought.

Dulmage is creating a fictitious backlash against immigrants. I've never met a non-Christian, immigrant or otherwise, who has whined or complained against Merry Christmas, or Christmas in general. Dulmage's implication is that immigrants whine and complain a lot, I don't think there is any truth to that. I'm not sure about that campain in Australia, but I don't believe any such campain exists in Canada, and I would never support it.

I'm fairly confident that the trend towards the neutral language of the holidays is not the result of any campaign by immigrants or religious minorities.

As far as dilution of Christmas, Western culture has done far more damage to the meaning of Christmas than any other culture. I'm a member of this culture and I love the West, all of these aspects of Western culture, it's Christian heritage along with the Enlightenment and philosophical traditions, democracy, separation of church and state, freedom, sciences, arts and civil society. When a society has such great traditions, it is disengenous to assert that these can be threatened merely by the presence of others, while the true decay may lie within our western culture.

From this perspective, we can see that the Brick's "ho ho hold the payment", and Canadian Tire's incessant ads, the exploitation of Santa Claus, the desire for the market to capitalize to the full extent people's desire to be generous at that time of year, these forces are waging the true "War on Christmas", while the arguments presented by Dulmage displace society's malaise on the 'outsider'. If we were rooted in the true spirit of Christmas, we would be grateful to receive any greeting or card, knowing that another human being has thought of them with affection. I love the story of the Grinch, because he had a War on Christmas too, he took all the Who's presents away, yet the kept singing, and that dignity and spirit won over the Grinch, there was a reconciliation. We need a reconciliation of the need to preserve the Christian tradition in Canada, and the joy of being able to love our neighbour's, respecting their culture and identity. The season's greetings battle is a false one, when we create these fictitious battles we divide the country, and it is only a battle of consequence through these types of misunderstandings.

Whether or not we think it is better to say season's greetings, or merry christmas, I can't see how we can possibly accept that the "war on christmas", whose parameters have been set by the christmas industry itself which is responding to mere demographics rather than campaigns, is a useful battle. I can't see how we can accept that suggesting to people who haven't whined and complained, that if they whine and complain they should leave, is in the Christmas spirit. It begs the question, suppose people did want to complain about some aspect of our society, then should they not be welcome in it and exercise their "right to leave"? Should Martin Luther King, in his criticism of racism in America, have exercised his right to leave? Where should he have gone? What sense does that make in a free society, where criticism and dissent is considered necessary and useful?

I desperately am seeking some critical debate, you cannot just come out and say things which are not true, just because the attitude feels true to you. In the spirit of Christmas, we need reconciliation, we need to love one another, we need to respect one another's traditions, we need to be grateful that we live in a country without ethnic, sectarian or religious based violence. In the spirit of the election, I think we need to raise the level of debate beyond what it is now, and I was wrong in posing my challenge in the way that I did.

I encourage people of all political stripes be open to pluralism. Pluralism is perhaps a cousin to multiculturalism, but is broader in incorporating a multiplicity of not only cultures, but ideas. Ideas move forward when they are met with other ideas. Critical thinking has been reduced to criticism alone in articles like the Dulmage column. The process of philosophical critique is to begin with charity to the idea, in order to understand it properly, then criticism to identify its weak points, then an attempt at synthesis and integration of ideas. In my analysis, I see no reason for a "war on christmas", I agree that people ought to be free to celebrate Christmas and say Merry Christmas, but critically it seems patently false to paint the picture of non-Christians and immigranst as enemies in a so-called "war on christmas".

Finally, I think there's a lot of truth in the idea that if we look outward beyond ourselves we can heal ourselves. These divisions that we are discussing are a lot of hot air when you put it in perspective with our global situation, and the role that Canada can play in the world. When you have a world divided like this, with civil wars in so many nations, with lack of access to water, health care and opportunity in so many nations, and you have a country with a diverse population, with no internal organized violence, with excellent health care, with prosperity, with civil society, free speech, religious freedom and equality of men and women, we can be a leader on the global front, where we can help turn things around, because we've abandoned the idea of cultural superiority so that nations we're helping see us as partners not patronizers. When we look at our potential in that, it can unite the country, whichever party is leading.

I pray that Stephen Harper will not divide, but will unite this country, and I think the best way to do it would be to reestabish Canada's humanitarian role in the world on a multi-partisan level.

Arif

[Hydraboss]

Arif, welcome to the board.

[scribblet]

Accepting other people's cultures and beliefs doesn't mean I have to give up mine. And wot in ell does it have to do with being conservative.

[arif]

Accepting other people's cultures and beliefs doesn't mean I have to give up mine. And wot in ell does it have to do with being conservative.

I'm not asking anyone to give up their beliefs, the context of this discussion are the false premises of the so-called "war on christmas".

I've tried to argue that the beliefs to be defended as the Christian influence in Western culture go far deeper, are far more rich and meaningful than the defensive reactionary attitude of the "war on christmas", which by positing it as a war, creates an "us" and "them" divisivenes we don't need.

Plus the implication that immigrants, or anyone, should exercise a "right to leave", is hurtful, my whole reaction to this began with that, and I'm praying to God we can get beyond this. I'm sure that the First Nations have had the worst end of the immigration that began from the 1500's on, certainly they would have a more legitimate complaint of threats to their culture and beliefs stemming from the residential schools, and other assimilitionist policies. It's like that joke - "my grandfather came to this country and as soon as he got off the boat he turned to the guy behind him and said, "what do you mean coming to my country."

What this has to do with conservatives is that it appears that the "war on christmas" concept is emanating from the conservative religious right. I am absolutely sure that even the religious right, who I tend to disagree with most of the time, has something better to offer than this. If the "war on christmas" and its divisive pretensions should be dissociated with conservatives, then I applaud that dissociation and discarding of useless concepts, and we can move toward a more intelligent dialogue on religious tradition in a secular and pluralistic society.

Arif

[geoffrey]

Accepting other people's cultures and beliefs doesn't mean I have to give up mine. And wot in ell does it have to do with being conservative.

I'm not asking anyone to give up their beliefs, the context of this discussion are the false premises of the so-called "war on christmas".

Arif

The war on Christmas isn't a false premise. It's no longer allowed in schools, in malls, anywhere outside of the house or Church. Earlier in this thread, Kimmy posted talking about how people would feel if Ramadan was renamed "National Weightloss Month." It would be labeled as a huge attack on muslims. Yet efforts to remove Christmas from the holiday dialogue are viewed as progressive. How is that equality? How is that fair?

Anyone remember Paul Martin's inability to say 'Christmas Wreath'?

[arif]

Accepting other people's cultures and beliefs doesn't mean I have to give up mine. And wot in ell does it have to do with being conservative.

I'm not asking anyone to give up their beliefs, the context of this discussion are the false premises of the so-called "war on christmas".

I've tried to argue that the beliefs to be defended as the Christian influence in Western culture go far deeper, are far more rich and meaningful than the defensive reactionary attitude of the "war on christmas", which by positing it as a war, creates an "us" and "them" divisivenes we don't need.

Plus the implication that immigrants, or anyone, should exercise a "right to leave", is hurtful, my whole reaction to this began with that, and I'm praying to God we can get beyond this. I'm sure that the First Nations have had the worst end of the immigration that began from the 1500's on, certainly they would have a more legitimate complaint of threats to their culture and beliefs stemming from the residential schools, and other assimilitionist policies. It's like that joke - "my grandfather came to this country and as soon as he got off the boat he turned to the guy behind him and said, "what do you mean coming to my country."

What this has to do with conservatives is that it appears that the "war on christmas" concept is emanating from the conservative religious right. I am absolutely sure that even the religious right, who I tend to disagree with most of the time, has something better to offer than this. If the "war on christmas" and its divisive pretensions should be dissociated with conservatives, then I applaud that dissociation and discarding of useless concepts, and we can move toward a more intelligent dialogue on religious tradition in a secular and pluralistic society.

Arif

[arif]

Accepting other people's cultures and beliefs doesn't mean I have to give up mine. And wot in ell does it have to do with being conservative.

I'm not asking anyone to give up their beliefs, the context of this discussion are the false premises of the so-called "war on christmas".

Arif

The war on Christmas isn't a false premise. It's no longer allowed in schools, in malls, anywhere outside of the house or Church. Earlier in this thread, Kimmy posted talking about how people would feel if Ramadan was renamed "National Weightloss Month." It would be labeled as a huge attack on muslims. Yet efforts to remove Christmas from the holiday dialogue are viewed as progressive. How is that equality? How is that fair?

Anyone remember Paul Martin's inability to say 'Christmas Wreath'?

Like I said, I disagree with this move toward neutrality of language around Christmas, but what do you have to say about the "right to leave" kind of language? Can we agree that efforts to remove Christmas from the holiday dialogue are not progressive, but abandon the attack on immigrants? And it is an attack, no one would be grateful to be told they have a right to leave, and again, many people have pointed out that this campaign is not driven by immigrants or non-Christians in general, so why place the blame there? Maybe we have to get to the root of the problem, overzealous political correctness. But to say that you would be offended if I said Season's Greetings, is to introduce another level of political correctness, Season's Greetings does not demean Christianity, and the comparison with "weight loss month" for Ramadan is silly. I think we're moving toward a reconciliation.

If there are non-Christian immigrants or others pushing for this, I would advise them to place their efforts elsewhere, although I would say that it would be excellent if in our country if we can unite around a sense of common interests, and also venerate all holidays.

So, if we're not sure of the religion of the person we're sending a card to, we could send cards which say "Merry Christmas, Eid Mubarak, Happy Diwali, Merry Kwanzaa and Meegwech (don't think I spelled that right) and a happy holiday season to all people who are not celebrating a religious holiday this season, but share in the fact that we all have some time off work, unless we are emergency workers, in which case we heap thousands of blessings on you for your service at this time, and we wish all families peace, happiness, unity and love." Hallmark would have a hard time printing such a message, but in the end, though I am critical of season's greetings, I think basically that's what it is trying to say. In an era of mass communication, we lose the richness of communication because we don't have the time or space to put it there.

And anyway, can a "war on christmas" ever be won?

Arif

[justcrowing]

Those comments supposedly made by the Mayor have been circulating via email for over a year now. So what else is new? Also, what does it have to be with being a Conservative since I received such an email from a staunch socialist. I am not a religious person but I do love Christmas celebrations and have refused to purchase any cards which said "Happy Holidays" or "Seasons Greetings". I celebrate Christmas with my christian friends and members of family - some are Conservatives but others are not. If other ethnic groups can celebrate their religious holidays, why should Christians not celebrate theirs. I think this political correctness has gone too far. Political correctness does more to divide people of this country today than when we had a time where the traditions of this country were not eroded. I fully expect that the Liberals would even make it a criminal offence to celebrate Christmas - sounds kinda like communism.

[betsy]

yikes,

ok, let's not add to the misunderstandings in this great country, so let me explain what is wrong with what dulmage said and why it's not based on truth. Please understand that I prefer Merry Christmas myself, that I'm all for preserving Christmas traditions. And I'm sorry I was scary, I'm not actually scared myself of conservatives as people, but quite flummoxed by some of the far-right ideas. I guess I was looking for any moderate consensus amongst conservatives that a Stephen Harper government is not going to promote backlash against immigrants or any minorities. I thought folks might see what went wrong in the thinking. And it's true it's not a partisan issue, but I haven't ever heard any of the other parties oppose multiculturalism. My approach wasn't good. Ok, here's my thought.

Dulmage is creating a fictitious backlash against immigrants. I've never met a non-Christian, immigrant or otherwise, who has whined or complained against Merry Christmas, or Christmas in general. Dulmage's implication is that immigrants whine and complain a lot, I don't think there is any truth to that. I'm not sure about that campain in Australia, but I don't believe any such campain exists in Canada, and I would never support it.

I'm fairly confident that the trend towards the neutral language of the holidays is not the result of any campaign by immigrants or religious minorities.

As far as dilution of Christmas, Western culture has done far more damage to the meaning of Christmas than any other culture. I'm a member of this culture and I love the West, all of these aspects of Western culture, it's Christian heritage along with the Enlightenment and philosophical traditions, democracy, separation of church and state, freedom, sciences, arts and civil society. When a society has such great traditions, it is disengenous to assert that these can be threatened merely by the presence of others, while the true decay may lie within our western culture.

From this perspective, we can see that the Brick's "ho ho hold the payment", and Canadian Tire's incessant ads, the exploitation of Santa Claus, the desire for the market to capitalize to the full extent people's desire to be generous at that time of year, these forces are waging the true "War on Christmas", while the arguments presented by Dulmage displace society's malaise on the 'outsider'. If we were rooted in the true spirit of Christmas, we would be grateful to receive any greeting or card, knowing that another human being has thought of them with affection. I love the story of the Grinch, because he had a War on Christmas too, he took all the Who's presents away, yet the kept singing, and that dignity and spirit won over the Grinch, there was a reconciliation. We need a reconciliation of the need to preserve the Christian tradition in Canada, and the joy of being able to love our neighbour's, respecting their culture and identity. The season's greetings battle is a false one, when we create these fictitious battles we divide the country, and it is only a battle of consequence through these types of misunderstandings.

Whether or not we think it is better to say season's greetings, or merry christmas, I can't see how we can possibly accept that the "war on christmas", whose parameters have been set by the christmas industry itself which is responding to mere demographics rather than campaigns, is a useful battle. I can't see how we can accept that suggesting to people who haven't whined and complained, that if they whine and complain they should leave, is in the Christmas spirit. It begs the question, suppose people did want to complain about some aspect of our society, then should they not be welcome in it and exercise their "right to leave"? Should Martin Luther King, in his criticism of racism in America, have exercised his right to leave? Where should he have gone? What sense does that make in a free society, where criticism and dissent is considered necessary and useful?

I desperately am seeking some critical debate, you cannot just come out and say things which are not true, just because the attitude feels true to you. In the spirit of Christmas, we need reconciliation, we need to love one another, we need to respect one another's traditions, we need to be grateful that we live in a country without ethnic, sectarian or religious based violence. In the spirit of the election, I think we need to raise the level of debate beyond what it is now, and I was wrong in posing my challenge in the way that I did.

I encourage people of all political stripes be open to pluralism. Pluralism is perhaps a cousin to multiculturalism, but is broader in incorporating a multiplicity of not only cultures, but ideas. Ideas move forward when they are met with other ideas. Critical thinking has been reduced to criticism alone in articles like the Dulmage column. The process of philosophical critique is to begin with charity to the idea, in order to understand it properly, then criticism to identify its weak points, then an attempt at synthesis and integration of ideas. In my analysis, I see no reason for a "war on christmas", I agree that people ought to be free to celebrate Christmas and say Merry Christmas, but critically it seems patently false to paint the picture of non-Christians and immigranst as enemies in a so-called "war on christmas".

Finally, I think there's a lot of truth in the idea that if we look outward beyond ourselves we can heal ourselves. These divisions that we are discussing are a lot of hot air when you put it in perspective with our global situation, and the role that Canada can play in the world. When you have a world divided like this, with civil wars in so many nations, with lack of access to water, health care and opportunity in so many nations, and you have a country with a diverse population, with no internal organized violence, with excellent health care, with prosperity, with civil society, free speech, religious freedom and equality of men and women, we can be a leader on the global front, where we can help turn things around, because we've abandoned the idea of cultural superiority so that nations we're helping see us as partners not patronizers. When we look at our potential in that, it can unite the country, whichever party is leading.

I pray that Stephen Harper will not divide, but will unite this country, and I think the best way to do it would be to reestabish Canada's humanitarian role in the world on a multi-partisan level.

Arif

Hi Arif....

Small world huh? I'm from Carleton Place too and have just recently discovered this forum. I have not read the column of the mayor so my response to it (from topic "A Visible Minority's POV") was just based on the information you posted.

I think what most Christians are offended about is the pressure being placed by the government and alleged representatives of non-Christians to the general public that Christmas is no longer just for Christians....and that using the word "Christmas" in greetings is no longer politically correct.

I said ALLEGED representatives of non-Christians for just like yourself who don't really mind about us celebrating our Christmas....I'm sure...and I will bet that majority of Non-Christians who had established their lives in Canada would rather abide by the rule "to each his own, " as long as that rule does not hurt or cause harm to anyone.

Commercialization of Christmas...I don't think it is being blamed on immigrants or minority groups. It is just the way the society is evolving....and the more materialistic our society is becoming...that changes the true meaning of Christmas. True, it's being exploited by everyone out to make a buck out of it. But then again, what doesn't get exploited these days? Even the poor and suffering children that gets portrayed so pathetically on tv for monetary donations are being stripped of whatever dignity they've got left. The marketing is so different nowadays.

Mr Dulmage's comment about practicing the right to leave may have come on strong....but if you put yourself in his shoes, you know what he means. Complaining about injustice or racism is very much different from demanding that a group forsake their own religion, tradition and culture for the sake of political correctness.

As I've said from my other post, if a Canadian comes to the Philippines (my place of origin) he'll be welcomed...for we are known for our hospitality. However, if he started demanding that we change our way of life and modify our culture, he'll definitely be told to "go back to your own country!"

Courtesy work both ways.

Dulmage seems to have lashed out in frustration. I feel frustrated...and angry. There is an unfair treatment to Christian practices. I feel that we are being singled out. I do not blame the other Non-Christian groups. But I do blame our leaders of the so-called "progressives" who with their bullying tactics in interference only sow discord....for of course, when one group's right is forcefully diminished or taken away....anger and resentment results.

Of all the candidates for PM, only Harper can unite the country. Our system is flawed right now. We are rotting from within. We should concentrate on fixing our nation first...or we will not have the credibility before the whole world.

Cheers!

[Leafless]

arif

You wrote- " Season's greetings does not demean Christianity"

When combined with politcal correctness it certaintly does.

Fact in matter- I went into my local "card specialty store" looking for good buys on Christmas cards for next Christmas.

There were hundreds of cards but not one reading "Merry Christmas" or in fact "Happy New Year".

This means arif there is in fact a war on Christianity, one that has been successful with speciality card manufacturers to exclude "Merry Christmas" or "Happy New Years." This is the FIRST year I have encountered this although I did experience problems obtaining these cards in the past but nevertheless obtained them.

It should be noted Canada is a free country and these imposed restrictions (basically propagated by the Liberal government) concerning there definiton of what is morally or ethically accepted crosses the line and removes my right to access of written material that I should not be denied access to.

My religion is my buisness and your religion is your buisness. If there are more Christians in Canada than non christians --to bad, as these products Cristmas cards are supplied according to demand and as far as I know all or most Christian denominations desire them.

Your problem arif is with manufacturers. If you feel left out concerning matters of your own faith or whatever contact manufacturers and explain what you would like.

[betsy]

arif

You wrote- " Season's greetings does not demean Christianity"

When combined with politcal correctness it certaintly does.

Fact in matter- I went into my local "card specialty store" looking for good buys on Christmas cards for next Christmas.

There were hundreds of cards but not one reading "Merry Christmas" or in fact "Happy New Year".

This means arif there is in fact a war on Christianity, one that has been successful with speciality card manufacturers to exclude "Merry Christmas" or "Happy New Years." This is the FIRST year I have encountered this although I did experience problems obtaining these cards in the past but nevertheless obtained them.

It should be noted Canada is a free country and these imposed restrictions (basically propagated by the Liberal government) concerning there definiton of what is morally or ethically accepted crosses the line and removes my right to access of written material that I should not be denied access to.

My religion is my buisness and your religion is your buisness. If there are more Christians in Canada than non christians --to bad, as these products Cristmas cards are supplied according to demand and as far as I know all or most Christian denominations desire them.

Your problem arif is with manufacturers. If you feel left out concerning matters of your own faith or whatever contact manufacturers and explain what you would like.

Maybe, Christians ought to boycott stores that no longer want to cater to Christians as clienteles. Just order our cards from the web. I'm sure stores wouldn't mind losing some business for the sake of political correctness. There are a lot of Christian stores in the net...they could use our business.

[geoffrey]

Maybe, Christians ought to boycott stores that no longer want to cater to Christians as clienteles. Just order our cards from the web. I'm sure stores wouldn't mind losing some business for the sake of political correctness. There are a lot of Christian stores in the net...they could use our business.

We'd be boycotting the whole off-line world.