Massive Irregularitiews "Edmonton Centre

[scribblet]

Boy, its time for a complete and full enumeration. Wonder if this will hit the MSM, but its too late to do anything now, and some of the names have voted.

"Massive Irregularities: Edmonton Centre

Via campaign manager Victor Marciano;

Laurie Hawn, Conservative Candidate in Edmonton Centre, has filed a complaint with the Commissioner of Elections Canada after massive voter list irregularities were uncovered by his campaign.

For some time, there have been rumors of election irregularities in Edmonton Centre. At an all candidates meeting with Elections Canada on January 4, 2006, it was revealed that two buildings had been struck from the electoral rolls because they were not residences. In reality, these buildings were both mailbox stores.

Several days later, the Laurie Hawn campaign identified a third non-residence building which sells mail boxes and reported it to Elections Canada.

A few days ago, the Laurie Hawn campaign was alerted, via e-mail, by an Edmonton lawyer that:

"Lots of [Anne McLellan] supporters are enumerated at their downtown office address instead of at their houses. One of them was bragging about how many times he could vote liberal (sic) based on the number of leases he had in her riding."

In reaction to this e-mail, the Laurie Hawn campaign acquired a City of Edmonton map which listed all buildings and their street addresses and began thoroughly checking the revised voters list. Despite checking less than half the polls, here are some irregularities that have been identified:

Almost 100 apparently nonexistent addresses in Edmonton's downtown core - in some cases, the addresses listed fictional residences in between two genuine buildings

Hundreds of people registered to vote out of their law offices, medical offices, accounting offices, and Government of Canada offices - in some cases these may be genuine errors, but in other cases, entire families are registered to vote out of high rise office space

Dozens of people registered to vote out of office towers, but who did not list a suite number, causing the address to read similarly to ordinary residences - in many cases, these people are also registered to vote in other ridings using their home addresses, and in other cases, voters living in other ridings are only registered in Edmonton Centre

Dozens of people registered to vote out of small mail box locations and from self-storage yards - there is no legitimate way for a person to appear on the list of Electors from a self-storage yard

Eighteen people registered to vote out of a truck stop

People registered to vote out of karaoke bars, lingerie stores, dance lounges, galleries, etc..."

Read more at www.smalldeadanimal.com

[betsy]

Boy, its time for a complete and full enumeration. Wonder if this will hit the MSM, but its too late to do anything now, and some of the names have voted.

"Massive Irregularities: Edmonton Centre

Via campaign manager Victor Marciano;

Laurie Hawn, Conservative Candidate in Edmonton Centre, has filed a complaint with the Commissioner of Elections Canada after massive voter list irregularities were uncovered by his campaign.

For some time, there have been rumors of election irregularities in Edmonton Centre. At an all candidates meeting with Elections Canada on January 4, 2006, it was revealed that two buildings had been struck from the electoral rolls because they were not residences. In reality, these buildings were both mailbox stores.

Several days later, the Laurie Hawn campaign identified a third non-residence building which sells mail boxes and reported it to Elections Canada.

A few days ago, the Laurie Hawn campaign was alerted, via e-mail, by an Edmonton lawyer that:

"Lots of [Anne McLellan] supporters are enumerated at their downtown office address instead of at their houses. One of them was bragging about how many times he could vote liberal (sic) based on the number of leases he had in her riding."

In reaction to this e-mail, the Laurie Hawn campaign acquired a City of Edmonton map which listed all buildings and their street addresses and began thoroughly checking the revised voters list. Despite checking less than half the polls, here are some irregularities that have been identified:

Almost 100 apparently nonexistent addresses in Edmonton's downtown core - in some cases, the addresses listed fictional residences in between two genuine buildings

Hundreds of people registered to vote out of their law offices, medical offices, accounting offices, and Government of Canada offices - in some cases these may be genuine errors, but in other cases, entire families are registered to vote out of high rise office space

Dozens of people registered to vote out of office towers, but who did not list a suite number, causing the address to read similarly to ordinary residences - in many cases, these people are also registered to vote in other ridings using their home addresses, and in other cases, voters living in other ridings are only registered in Edmonton Centre

Dozens of people registered to vote out of small mail box locations and from self-storage yards - there is no legitimate way for a person to appear on the list of Electors from a self-storage yard

Eighteen people registered to vote out of a truck stop

People registered to vote out of karaoke bars, lingerie stores, dance lounges, galleries, etc..."

Read more at www.smalldeadanimal.com

If this proves to be true, this will explain why the Liberal Candidate who was accused of bribing an NDP candidate GURANTEED A WIN for the NDP in another upcoming election if he (NDP) steps aside in this one.

How can you guarantee a win? Vote fixing?

[scribblet]

Boy, its time for a complete and full enumeration. Wonder if this will hit the MSM, but its too late to do anything now, and some of the names have voted.

"Massive Irregularities: Edmonton Centre

Via campaign manager Victor Marciano;

Laurie Hawn, Conservative Candidate in Edmonton Centre, has filed a complaint with the Commissioner of Elections Canada after massive voter list irregularities were uncovered by his campaign.

For some time, there have been rumors of election irregularities in Edmonton Centre. At an all candidates meeting with Elections Canada on January 4, 2006, it was revealed that two buildings had been struck from the electoral rolls because they were not residences. In reality, these buildings were both mailbox stores.

Several days later, the Laurie Hawn campaign identified a third non-residence building which sells mail boxes and reported it to Elections Canada.

A few days ago, the Laurie Hawn campaign was alerted, via e-mail, by an Edmonton lawyer that:

"Lots of [Anne McLellan] supporters are enumerated at their downtown office address instead of at their houses. One of them was bragging about how many times he could vote liberal (sic) based on the number of leases he had in her riding."

In reaction to this e-mail, the Laurie Hawn campaign acquired a City of Edmonton map which listed all buildings and their street addresses and began thoroughly checking the revised voters list. Despite checking less than half the polls, here are some irregularities that have been identified:

Almost 100 apparently nonexistent addresses in Edmonton's downtown core - in some cases, the addresses listed fictional residences in between two genuine buildings

Hundreds of people registered to vote out of their law offices, medical offices, accounting offices, and Government of Canada offices - in some cases these may be genuine errors, but in other cases, entire families are registered to vote out of high rise office space

Dozens of people registered to vote out of office towers, but who did not list a suite number, causing the address to read similarly to ordinary residences - in many cases, these people are also registered to vote in other ridings using their home addresses, and in other cases, voters living in other ridings are only registered in Edmonton Centre

Dozens of people registered to vote out of small mail box locations and from self-storage yards - there is no legitimate way for a person to appear on the list of Electors from a self-storage yard

Eighteen people registered to vote out of a truck stop

People registered to vote out of karaoke bars, lingerie stores, dance lounges, galleries, etc..."

Read more at www.smalldeadanimal.com

If this proves to be true, this will explain why the Liberal Candidate who was accused of bribing an NDP candidate GURANTEED A WIN for the NDP in another upcoming election if he (NDP) steps aside in this one.

How can you guarantee a win? Vote fixing?

It looks that way, on a large scale. I've no idea what can be done at this point about the voters lists, but if its close win for the liberals as it was before, then I would expect an immediate by-election. In fact, I would expect one anyway. Maybe its time for elections Canada to do a closer inspection of other ridings.

[tml12]

Boy, its time for a complete and full enumeration. Wonder if this will hit the MSM, but its too late to do anything now, and some of the names have voted.

"Massive Irregularities: Edmonton Centre

Via campaign manager Victor Marciano;

Laurie Hawn, Conservative Candidate in Edmonton Centre, has filed a complaint with the Commissioner of Elections Canada after massive voter list irregularities were uncovered by his campaign.

For some time, there have been rumors of election irregularities in Edmonton Centre. At an all candidates meeting with Elections Canada on January 4, 2006, it was revealed that two buildings had been struck from the electoral rolls because they were not residences. In reality, these buildings were both mailbox stores.

Several days later, the Laurie Hawn campaign identified a third non-residence building which sells mail boxes and reported it to Elections Canada.

A few days ago, the Laurie Hawn campaign was alerted, via e-mail, by an Edmonton lawyer that:

"Lots of [Anne McLellan] supporters are enumerated at their downtown office address instead of at their houses. One of them was bragging about how many times he could vote liberal (sic) based on the number of leases he had in her riding."

In reaction to this e-mail, the Laurie Hawn campaign acquired a City of Edmonton map which listed all buildings and their street addresses and began thoroughly checking the revised voters list. Despite checking less than half the polls, here are some irregularities that have been identified:

Almost 100 apparently nonexistent addresses in Edmonton's downtown core - in some cases, the addresses listed fictional residences in between two genuine buildings

Hundreds of people registered to vote out of their law offices, medical offices, accounting offices, and Government of Canada offices - in some cases these may be genuine errors, but in other cases, entire families are registered to vote out of high rise office space

Dozens of people registered to vote out of office towers, but who did not list a suite number, causing the address to read similarly to ordinary residences - in many cases, these people are also registered to vote in other ridings using their home addresses, and in other cases, voters living in other ridings are only registered in Edmonton Centre

Dozens of people registered to vote out of small mail box locations and from self-storage yards - there is no legitimate way for a person to appear on the list of Electors from a self-storage yard

Eighteen people registered to vote out of a truck stop

People registered to vote out of karaoke bars, lingerie stores, dance lounges, galleries, etc..."

Read more at www.smalldeadanimal.com

To think, we could have been rid of Landslide Annie years ago... :angry:

[betsy]

Boy, its time for a complete and full enumeration. Wonder if this will hit the MSM, but its too late to do anything now, and some of the names have voted.

"Massive Irregularities: Edmonton Centre

Via campaign manager Victor Marciano;

I wonder if other news will pick this up? This must go public. Your report and the Liberal candidate's bribing guarantee of an election win are two damning evidence that an irregularity may exists. They sort of substantiate one another.

Maybe we should email journalists and networks?

[August1991]

Can a person who is homeless vote?

Yes, an elector who is homeless or without a fixed address can vote, if he or she registers on the voters list during an election. To register, the elector must provide proof of identity and the address where he or she is staying.

Proof of identity can be an official document bearing the elector’s name and signature. For residence, the address of a local shelter is acceptable, if the shelter has provided food, lodging or other social services to the elector. Without such proof, a person who is homeless can register on election day by taking the prescribed oath as to identity and residence, as long as another voter who is registered in the same electoral district can vouch for that person.

Elections Canada

In typical Ottawa/bureaucratic divorced-from-the-real-world fashion, under pressure that voter turn out was falling (and believing the cause was the difficulty to register), Elections Canada made it easy to register to vote. So easy, that people can register several times and vote several times too. (Any 16 year old with ID for getting into bars could also vote.)

One person wouldn't bother to do this. But the next step would be to do it in an organized way. This could not be done in rural areas or small towns, but in large cities, it would not be difficult.

I don't think anyone has ever taken a voter registry after an election and methodically checked to see how accurate it is.

In the past, the voter registration list had to be posted in a public place prior to election date.

I happen to think Elections Canada should make it more difficult to get on the list. Voter turn out has become an obsession when it shouldn't be.

[tml12]

Can a person who is homeless vote?

Yes, an elector who is homeless or without a fixed address can vote, if he or she registers on the voters list during an election. To register, the elector must provide proof of identity and the address where he or she is staying.

Proof of identity can be an official document bearing the elector’s name and signature. For residence, the address of a local shelter is acceptable, if the shelter has provided food, lodging or other social services to the elector. Without such proof, a person who is homeless can register on election day by taking the prescribed oath as to identity and residence, as long as another voter who is registered in the same electoral district can vouch for that person.

Elections Canada

In typical Ottawa/bureaucratic divorced-from-the-real-world fashion, under pressure that voter turn out was falling (and believing the cause was the difficulty to register), Elections Canada made it easy to register to vote. So easy, that people can register several times and vote several times too. (Any 16 year old with ID for getting into bars could also vote.)

One person wouldn't bother to do this. But the next step would be to do it in an organized way. This could not be done in rural areas or small towns, but in large cities, it would not be difficult.

I don't think anyone has ever taken a voter registry after an election and methodically checked to see how accurate it is.

In the past, the voter registration list had to be posted in a public place prior to election date.

I happen to think Elections Canada should make it more difficult to get on the list. Voter turn out has become an obsession when it shouldn't be.

My friend worked at a polling station on the West Island and she told me that if you come to the polling station and you swear that you can vote along with a random person who lives in the riding and can vouch for your identity, they can let you vote.

That and in the last Montreal municipal election we had people on the voting list who weren't even citizens.

Yeah and voter turnout still sucks... :angry:

[August1991]

An Elections Canada spokesperson said the following:

"Elections Canada is really well aware of what's going on with the lists and constantly doing their very best to make sure everything is in shape."

Edmonton Journal (Got that from smalldeadanimals).

The quote is meaningless. How can Elections Canada say anything else? Can its spokesperson say "We are not aware of what's going on"?

[stignasty]

1. Not the most reliable of sources. To be honest, this seems like something someone in the conservative ranks put out to discredit the Liberals without any basis in fact.

2. The candidate mentioned in the "article" mentions nothing about this on his website or his blog.

3. Not the most specific of information. Some unnamed people have allegedly registered to vote out of commercial space. And a cousin of a friend of a friend of mine said so, it must be true.

4. Mainstream news outlets, however biased, are still held to the journalistic code of finding a reputable source. They won't touch this with a ten foot pole without a source or at least a name that they can go talk to.

This story may have some weight. However, until there is some actual evidence (hearsay is not evidence) there is nothing to it. It looks much more like an underhanded attempt by the conservatives to sway people to vote their way in what has historically been a close riding.

[Hydraboss]

1. Not the most reliable of sources. To be honest, this seems like something someone in the conservative ranks put out to discredit the Liberals without any basis in fact.

2. The candidate mentioned in the "article" mentions nothing about this on his website or his blog.

3. Not the most specific of information. Some unnamed people have allegedly registered to vote out of commercial space. And a cousin of a friend of a friend of mine said so, it must be true.

4. Mainstream news outlets, however biased, are still held to the journalistic code of finding a reputable source. They won't touch this with a ten foot pole without a source or at least a name that they can go talk to.

This story may have some weight. However, until there is some actual evidence (hearsay is not evidence) there is nothing to it. It looks much more like an underhanded attempt by the conservatives to sway people to vote their way in what has historically been a close riding.

Global Television, January 20, 2006, 5:30pm news. Has now gone across the Global/Canwest network. Look for it in your area tonight.

[kimmy]

1. Not the most reliable of sources. To be honest, this seems like something someone in the conservative ranks put out to discredit the Liberals without any basis in fact.

The Edmonton Journal is not a reliable source? Elections Canada is not a reliable source?

The Journal article that August provided confirms, with quotes from Elections Canada, that the problems alleged by Hawn's staff are genuine and are being corrected. Check it out, homeslice:

But Elections Canada spokeswoman Andrea Marantz said any trouble in the riding has been cleared up following "substantial changes" to the final voters list put out Thursday night.

This work was aided by a group of Ottawa "troubleshooters," who are available where needed across the country, she said.

They're still at work in Edmonton Centre, although Marantz didn't know when they started or why they became involved.

"There were buildings that had post office boxes in them. Most of them were identified and have been removed from the list."

There are still people shown living at locations that are actually offices, but staff know who they are, she said.

Election officials are sending their names to the district returning officers in charge of each of the riding's approximately 200 polls, Marantz said.

If they show up to vote, they'll be challenged to produce identification with a home address, then directed to the proper location, she said.

"(Staff) are very, very happy ... to the best of their ability, the office here is saying the list is now correct," she said.

Buildings incorrectly identified as residences? Check.

People identifying their office as their residence so that they can be on the Edmonton Centre voters list? Check.

Now, if Elections Canada has responded to this issue and corrected the problem, or is attempting to, then great. All we can ask is that they do their best, but I hope their recognition that there has been a problem will allow for the proper scrutiny and deter some potential fraud.

Keep in mind that "Landslide Annie" got her nickname from extremely narrow wins. It doesn't take a lot of votes to make a difference in Edmonton Centre. A few out-of-riding people listing their downtown office, or Mailboxes Etc box, or storage locker as a residence so they could come to Edmonton Centre to vote for Annie could have potentially made a difference.

-k

[cybercoma]

What if they were going to Edmonton to vote for the Conservatives?

[stignasty]

The Edmonton Journal is not a reliable source? Elections Canada is not a reliable source?

The Journal article that August provided confirms, with quotes from Elections Canada, that the problems alleged by Hawn's staff are genuine and are being corrected. Check it out, homeslice:

But Elections Canada spokeswoman Andrea Marantz said any trouble in the riding has been cleared up following "substantial changes" to the final voters list put out Thursday night.

This work was aided by a group of Ottawa "troubleshooters," who are available where needed across the country, she said.

They're still at work in Edmonton Centre, although Marantz didn't know when they started or why they became involved.

"There were buildings that had post office boxes in them. Most of them were identified and have been removed from the list."

There are still people shown living at locations that are actually offices, but staff know who they are, she said.

Election officials are sending their names to the district returning officers in charge of each of the riding's approximately 200 polls, Marantz said.

If they show up to vote, they'll be challenged to produce identification with a home address, then directed to the proper location, she said.

"(Staff) are very, very happy ... to the best of their ability, the office here is saying the list is now correct," she said.

Buildings incorrectly identified as residences? Check.

People identifying their office as their residence so that they can be on the Edmonton Centre voters list? Check.

Any evidence that there is a vast Liberal conspiracy to fix the vote, um, well, um, non-check.

Nowhere does it say that the people registered at those addresses had any intention of voting for the Liberals. To try to hang this one as a "Liberal scandal" is not being honest, sweetheart.

[Hydraboss]

What if they were going to Edmonton to vote for the Conservatives?

Who "they", and further to that, "huh?"

[kimmy]

Any evidence that there is a vast Liberal conspiracy to fix the vote, um, well, um, non-check.

Nowhere does it say that the people registered at those addresses had any intention of voting for the Liberals. To try to hang this one as a "Liberal scandal" is not being honest, sweetheart.

Of course not. We don't know how the mis-registered people intended to vote. And I don't claim this is a "Liberal scandal".

Earlier in the campaign when a reporter asked him about polls showing he was ahead,Hawn made a cryptic remark about people getting around voters lists. And it's Hawn's people who've filed this complaint and had Elections Canada get after it. It seems to be the Hawn campaign's opinion that something's up. Whether they're right or wrong, having Elections Canada scrutinize the voters list does no harm, does it?

-k

[I Miss Trudeau]

If this proves to be true, this will explain why the Liberal Candidate who was accused of bribing an NDP candidate GURANTEED A WIN for the NDP in another upcoming election if he (NDP) steps aside in this one.

How can you guarantee a win? Vote fixing?

I think you answered your own question there. This may come as a surprise to some, but not every accusation has a basis in reality, especially when the alleged bribe offerssomething that would be impossible to deliver on.

[geoffrey]

If this proves to be true, this will explain why the Liberal Candidate who was accused of bribing an NDP candidate GURANTEED A WIN for the NDP in another upcoming election if he (NDP) steps aside in this one.

How can you guarantee a win? Vote fixing?

I think you answered your own question there. This may come as a surprise to some, but not every accusation has a basis in reality, especially when the alleged bribe offerssomething that would be impossible to deliver on.

I agree IMT. We need to stop jumping to conclusions in some of these cases.

In the Edmonton-Centre, if Elections Canada has already found problems with voters registering in their office buildings, this goes beyond mere accusations.

[kimmy]

I agree IMT. We need to stop jumping to conclusions in some of these cases.

In the Edmonton-Centre, if Elections Canada has already found problems with voters registering in their office buildings, this goes beyond mere accusations.

I would just add that (as has been pointed out) although there are irregularities occuring does not mean that Ann McLellan or anybody associated with her team is at fault.

If I was a Liberal supporter who had an opportunity to either vote for a losing candidate in my home riding, or improperly register myself as an Edmonton Centre resident to try to support an important Liberal MP who is in a tight race, I would think it would be pretty tempting...

Likewise I would suspect some anti-Liberal voters would want to see Ann McLellan lose badly enough that they'd do the same.

It's hard to say which group might have a bigger impact on the election, but clearly it's not proper. And clearly Hawn's staff was concerned about this; they probably have a hunch that it would have worked in McLellan's favor more than their own.

-k

[scribblet]

http://www.conservative.ca/EN/1091/40086 go to the heading PRESS

Reynolds asks Elections Canada to investigate Edmonton Centre

21 January 2006

Liberal candidate among hundreds of voters improperly registered in riding

OTTAWA – John Reynolds, Conservative MP and National Campaign Co-Chair, today wrote the Commissioner of Canada Elections ( see letter) asking him to launch an investigation into allegations of massive electoral irregularities in the riding of Edmonton Centre. A report in yesterday’s Edmonton Journal revealed that hundreds of voters have been improperly registered in the riding because area businesses were incorrectly listed as home addresses. Edmonton Centre is currently held by Liberal MP Anne McLellan.

“In literally hundreds of cases, the ‘residential addresses’ provided for these voters are in reality law firms, medical offices, accounting firms, lingerie stores, karaoke bars, storage facilities, and even government offices,” wrote Mr. Reynolds. “It is even our understanding that eighteen voters are listed as living in a truck stop.”

Elections Canada had originally claimed that the voter list had been corrected, but a review of the updated list found that only a few dozen names had been removed. While administrative errors can occur in every riding, no reasonable explanation has been given for why there would have been such a massive number of improper registrations in Edmonton Centre.

“While these types of allegations would be deeply troubling in any riding, they are particularly significant on the eve of an election in a riding as closely contested as Edmonton Centre,” added Mr. Reynolds. “As you are undoubtedly aware, the riding of Edmonton Centre was won by just over seven hundred votes in 2004 and by only 11 votes in 1993.”

The Edmonton Journal reports that one of the improperly registered voters is Andrew Hladyshevsky, the Liberal candidate in Edmonton Strathcona. When contacted by reporters, Mr. Hladyshevsky confirmed that he knew about the error “for the last couple of weeks” but had not advised Elections Canada nor taken any steps to have his name removed (Edmonton Journal, January 20, 2006).

link: http://www.conservative.ca/media/20060106-...er-Reynolds.pdf

[scribblet]

This is something that has to be looked into ASAP, if it happened in this riding its likely happening in others. Election Canada needs to do a full investigation and clean up those voter lists; a complete enumeration would be a start.

[tml12]

This is something that has to be looked into ASAP, if it happened in this riding its likely happening in others. Election Canada needs to do a full investigation and clean up those voter lists; a complete enumeration would be a start.

SHE IS DONE...LANDSLIDE ANNIE...AU REVOIR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[geoffrey]

This is something that has to be looked into ASAP, if it happened in this riding its likely happening in others. Election Canada needs to do a full investigation and clean up those voter lists; a complete enumeration would be a start.

SHE IS DONE...LANDSLIDE ANNIE...AU REVOIR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You should have heard the celebration last night, wow.

I think it was a bigger cheer when Annie lost than when we won.

[tml12]

This is something that has to be looked into ASAP, if it happened in this riding its likely happening in others. Election Canada needs to do a full investigation and clean up those voter lists; a complete enumeration would be a start.

SHE IS DONE...LANDSLIDE ANNIE...AU REVOIR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You should have heard the celebration last night, wow.

I think it was a bigger cheer when Annie lost than when we won.

I stayed up late just to make sure she lost. This is crucial...for the first time in so long the Liberals don't have MPs from every province, while the CPC has made crucial gains in Quebec. This may change the Canadian political landscape for a LONG time if Harper can be a good PM.

[geoffrey]

I stayed up late just to make sure she lost. This is crucial...for the first time in so long the Liberals don't have MPs from every province, while the CPC has made crucial gains in Quebec. This may change the Canadian political landscape for a LONG time if Harper can be a good PM.

Thats the plan, I won't miss her sadly. I liked Alberta 70-something % support of the Tories as well.

[tml12]

I stayed up late just to make sure she lost. This is crucial...for the first time in so long the Liberals don't have MPs from every province, while the CPC has made crucial gains in Quebec. This may change the Canadian political landscape for a LONG time if Harper can be a good PM.

Thats the plan, I won't miss her sadly. I liked Alberta 70-something % support of the Tories as well.

I don't know if anyone will...

Hey, the Conservatives only lost my riding by about 15-20% last night when they usually lose it by about 25-30%. Maybe a sign of things to come? My riding has been Liberal at least for the last 20 years...