The other immigration problem: Too much talent is leaving Canada

[CdnFox]

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/commentary/article-the-other-immigration-problem-too-much-talent-is-leaving-canada/

Surging immigration numbers are top-of-mind for Canadians. But as we reconsider targets for newcomers and address pain points such as housing, we also need to pay attention to talent retention.

Tens of thousands of people leave Canada every year, many of them talented and entrepreneurial people we will miss. Importantly, a significant fraction are themselves immigrants, which may mean we are missing an opportunity to boost Canada’s long-term growth and prosperity.

A recent study by Statistics Canada, using a data set that combines detailed immigration department data with a Canada Revenue Agency database, highlights the significant phenomenon of emigration among immigrants in Canada. The overall numbers are remarkable: More than 5 per cent of immigrants admitted between 1982 and 2017 emigrated within five years of landing, and a striking 17.5 per cent emigrated within two decades. The likelihood of departure peaks between three to seven years after admission. The study also provides intriguing insights about the contrasts between people who come to Canada and tend to stay versus those who come and tend to leave.

Several characteristics are closely associated with emigration, including admission category, country of birth, age at landing, and having no children. Investors and entrepreneurs emerge at the forefront of emigration; they are more likely to seek opportunities elsewhere. Emigration likelihood is also, unfortunately, correlated with education. Highly educated immigrants, particularly those admitted in economic categories and including former international students, are likelier to leave again.

[CdnFox]

So - the most productive people (entrepreneurs, highly skilled individuals, investors) leave.

And canada becomes a filter where the lower performers are stuck here and the more useful people are allowed to flow out.

We've discussed this briefly but this report provides some real numbers - other sources indicate that this process is actually speeding up.

[ExFlyer]

14 hours ago, CdnFox said:

So - the most productive people (entrepreneurs, highly skilled individuals, investors) leave.

And canada becomes a filter where the lower performers are stuck here and the more useful people are allowed to flow out.

We've discussed this briefly but this report provides some real numbers - other sources indicate that this process is actually speeding up.

"(entrepreneurs, highly skilled individuals, investors)" go where the money is. Always have so this is not new.

[Perspektiv]

2 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

"(entrepreneurs, highly skilled individuals, investors)" go where the money is. Always have so this is not new.

Correct,  but if there is a spike in those numbers, one should start asking questions, no?

I've talked to tons of business owners, and I hear a similar tune as what am facing.

Leases expiring soon, or expired, and renewal rates are staggeringly expensive.

Want to buy? What was 1.5 million prior to covid, now lists for 2.5 or 3 million.

Where I used to rent, was about 6 grand per month for about 6, 000 square feet. Now, you're easily going for close to 20 grand.

How do you expect to survive say, as a mom and pop shop? 

Many of these businesses are simply breaking even.

We chose to pass some costs onto customers, but if your industry is cut threat and you're competing against a Wal-Mart like entity, you can start to see why some people may want to leave.

I could easily open a business in Hong Kong, no red tape. Apply for a visa, pay insurance and licenses, hire staff and follow the regulations and am done. Want to add to your business, again very easy.

I wanted to add an entrance. Cost me 20, 000$ in regulatory fees alone, and this isn't even for the work to be done.

You're literally bogged down in many provinces in Canada, in regulation. Or over-regulation.

Taxes are way cheaper in some US states. Many countries incentivize investment. Canada isn't one of them.

Wouldn't say its a crisis, but it hasn't become any easier to be an entrepreneur in Canada.

I know so many business owners that went out of business in the last couple of years.

My wife is a born entrepreneur, so she quickly understood the urgent need to diversify her businesses to survive.

For those who aren't so savvy, it's basically good luck, or move elsewhere.

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

"(entrepreneurs, highly skilled individuals, investors)" go where the money is. Always have so this is not new.

Correct - canada has become unprofitable and the money isn't here.  And that is in fact the problem  - MASSIVELY high costs of living, high taxes, overrregulation, a federal gov't who is driving up the debt at a lighting pace while reducing the tax base per capita... they can tell a sinking ship when they see one and they go elsewhere that has more money.

That's a bad thing.

[ExFlyer]

1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

Correct,  but if there is a spike in those numbers, one should start asking questions, no?

I've talked to tons of business owners, and I hear a similar tune as what am facing.

Leases expiring soon, or expired, and renewal rates are staggeringly expensive.

Want to buy? What was 1.5 million prior to covid, now lists for 2.5 or 3 million.

Where I used to rent, was about 6 grand per month for about 6, 000 square feet. Now, you're easily going for close to 20 grand.

How do you expect to survive say, as a mom and pop shop? 

Many of these businesses are simply breaking even.

We chose to pass some costs onto customers, but if your industry is cut threat and you're competing against a Wal-Mart like entity, you can start to see why some people may want to leave.

I could easily open a business in Hong Kong, no red tape. Apply for a visa, pay insurance and licenses, hire staff and follow the regulations and am done. Want to add to your business, again very easy.

I wanted to add an entrance. Cost me 20, 000$ in regulatory fees alone, and this isn't even for the work to be done.

You're literally bogged down in many provinces in Canada, in regulation. Or over-regulation.

Taxes are way cheaper in some US states. Many countries incentivize investment. Canada isn't one of them.

Wouldn't say its a crisis, but it hasn't become any easier to be an entrepreneur in Canada.

I know so many business owners that went out of business in the last couple of years.

My wife is a born entrepreneur, so she quickly understood the urgent need to diversify her businesses to survive.

For those who aren't so savvy, it's basically good luck, or move elsewhere.

Look, what you are saying is a sign of the times, everywhere. All countries.

Canadian companies have gone off shore for decades. That is not new by any means. And, they are still doing it. We have become a service industry country with a few exceptions (resource sales).

Taxes?? If you want the freebies, the social programs, the infrastructure, ya gotta pay taxes or, you have a better way of pay for your desires? You know the old saying, the government cannot give you anything without first taking from someone else.

As for going out of business, well, if you have no customers, well, you go out of business.

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, ExFlyer said:

Look, what you are saying is a sign of the times, everywhere. All countries.

 

That is a lie.  And i think you know it's a lie.  If ALL countries are losing the good people, where do you think they're going? The moon?  It's dumb to even suggest it,

It's a  Canada problem.  Justin has created a country where it's not desirable to live here and those with the means to leave are doing so. And that just leaves us with the lower end.  People who are born here tend to stay because it's what they know but immigrants have already left their 'comfort zones' and aren't afraid to do so again if life in Canada isn't measuring up.

[Perspektiv]

3 hours ago, CdnFox said:

but immigrants have already left their 'comfort zones' and aren't afraid to do so again if life in Canada isn't measuring up.

Many leave their countries for better opportunities. 

My wife left the Philippines because there were no opportunities. She was an operations manager making less than 600$ a month. 

You will be lucky to work at a McDonald's with a bachelor's degree.

Many flock to countries like Canada, and in the past many more ended up staying because of how much they loved it.

The issue now, is the cost if living, coupled with the reality that many can't find work in fields they are experts in.

Made all the more shameful, as Filipinos have some of the world's most sought after nurses and customer service and tourism workers.

Its a waste of a life of work, when you no longer can afford to go to school to get equivalency skills and are forced to work fast food or menial work and multiple jobs, but skyrocketing costs are making it impossible to send as much money back home as you used to.

Your middle class is your pulse. When  you handcuff their spending power, you're literally handcuffing your economy.

[CdnFox]

9 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

Many leave their countries for better opportunities. 

My wife left the Philippines because there were no opportunities. She was an operations manager making less than 600$ a month. 

You will be lucky to work at a McDonald's with a bachelor's degree.

Many flock to countries like Canada, and in the past many more ended up staying because of how much they loved it.

The issue now, is the cost if living, coupled with the reality that many can't find work in fields they are experts in.

Made all the more shameful, as Filipinos have some of the world's most sought after nurses and customer service and tourism workers.

Its a waste of a life of work, when you no longer can afford to go to school to get equivalency skills and are forced to work fast food or menial work and multiple jobs, but skyrocketing costs are making it impossible to send as much money back home as you used to.

Your middle class is your pulse. When  you handcuff their spending power, you're literally handcuffing your economy.

All Very true, and on the west coast philipino nurses are legendary for their skills and workethic.

The challenge is many who are looking for a new home choose canada because it's easy to get into - but it's also easier to get into other countries like the US if  you're in canada.

Too many of the top quality people are leaving and that's going to drag us down over time

[Perspektiv]

19 hours ago, CdnFox said:

All Very true, and on the west coast philipino nurses are legendary for their skills and workethic.

Many are leaving.

Think about it. Many are struggling back home in my wife's country. In mine.

However, Haiti is a lost cause. I would be risking her life and mine going there.

Her country is relatively safe for the most part, and if we have heavy handed capital, many are selling properties out of desperation. Now is the perfect timing. 

If you have capital, life in the Philippines is good.

IE we hired a maid for her parents who are still there. Upgraded their home.

We could hire a couple for our home, allowing us to focus on business. Buy a car, hire a driver, and maximize our time.

But you have so many sky blue beaches, and insanely gorgeous scenery, and a much slower pace of life I miss whenever back in Canada.

If you're struggling, it is impossibly difficult, however.

But my Canadian dollar can create far more opportunities there.

But if after all this effort to become a permanent resident she was struggling just as bad in Canada, I would take life in the Philippines any day of the week. Mercifully for her, she adapts fast and has an above average IQ.

Canada used to be sought after. 

We're middle class, so we have financial breathing room, but still have to tighten our belts to save up to travel.

I can only imagine what its like for someone making anything less than 45k a year. This used to be a good salary. That salary now, is garbage.

Now, with rent prices, you're barely scraping by. University education and all.

What can you afford at 30k a year?

Put yourself in the shoes of a newcomer without a support system in place, trying to fend for themselves in such an environment. 

19 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Too many of the top quality people are leaving and that's going to drag us down over time

I know so many immigrants who are insanely skilled, talking about how much they are struggling.

From business owners, bleeding money, to people working multiple jobs not getting what they used to for their effort.

If Trudeau cares about the middle class, am not seeing it.

To paraphrase a business partner we know who was ranting, they literally feel they are busting their a** twice as hard, to earn less, pay more and be taxed heavier to support a growing demographic of people relying on the government, while it feels like the foot soldiers are left to rot, in skyrocketing levels of personal debt.

[herbie]

Come up with a scary right wing doublespeak for what's been called the Brain Drain for the last 70 years or so.
If you'd ever paid attention to the MSM talent leaving for the USA's larger market and immigrants training here to get the skills to move on to where they wanted to go in the first place wouldn't be "news".

Never heard the immigrant saying "Almost America"? Or Canada's 2nd largest city is LA?

[CdnFox]

6 hours ago, herbie said:

Come up with a scary right wing doublespeak for what's been called the Brain Drain for the last 70 years or so.
If you'd ever paid attention to the MSM talent leaving for the USA's larger market and immigrants training here to get the skills to move on to where they wanted to go in the first place wouldn't be "news".

Never heard the immigrant saying "Almost America"? Or Canada's 2nd largest city is LA?

All we'll be left with at this rate is M0r0ns.   Who post on the internet.  Under the name Herbie.

[herbie]

The usual can't even try to address the issue so claim it's someone else that's the stoopid one.
Learn from the Trumpoids. Ingratiate yourself to court their adoration.

Edited February 18 by herbie

[CdnFox]

32 minutes ago, herbie said:

The usual can't even try to address the issue so claim it's someone else that's the stoopid one.
Learn from the Trumpoids. Ingratiate yourself to court their adoration.

There's no issue to address, you're a pathetic crybaby weasel who makes dumb statments because he's bitter as hell that his left wing heros have utterly trashed the country and even the kids are turning away from them.  You're pathetic  you don't have an "issue'" other than your emotional ones.

We're losing the best people at a very fast rate right now.  Period. And it's because justin and jagmeet's canada is largelly unlivable.

Your kind has utterly failed the people of this country. You're a disgrace.

Go triple the value of your home wiht your credit card or something, the adults are talking here.