Liberals discuss impending loss

[August1991]

Two good articles to read:

"It means it's going to be time to revitalize the Liberal Party. We're going to need to focus on the structure of the party. We're going to need to focus upon new policy and we're going to need to self-examine as to why this [loss] just took place."

G & M

If the Prime Minister is willing to sacrifice intellectual honesty to his partisan interest in the heat of a losing election campaign, if he is willing to turn his campaign into a full-fledged witch hunt, how far would he be willing to go if the fate of the country was hanging in the balance in a referendum?

Chantal Hebert

Hebert says she plans to be in Calgary on 23 January.

[Guest eureka]

You may recall, August, that before the last election I wrote of the destruction of the Liberal Party. I likened the Canadian Party to that of Asquith and Lloyd George in Britain. There, the party was destroyed by the personal ambitons and struggle for control of thise two.

We suffered the same with Chretien and Martin. My only surprise is that the fall did not come sooner.

Though, I do not think it is too late to reverse the decline here if the Liberals can get a more visionary and articulate spokesman than Martin quickly in the pub;ic eye. I find it hard to comprehend how anyone can lose to this treacherous hypocrite, Harper.

[shoop]

You don't understand how he can lose to Harper? Just look at the unfocused, uninspired and lazy campaigns the Martinites have run so far.

I find it hard to comprehend how anyone can lose to this treacherous hypocrite, Harper.

[Hicksey]

You may recall, August, that before the last election I wrote of the destruction of the Liberal Party. I likened the Canadian Party to that of Asquith and Lloyd George in Britain. There, the party was destroyed by the personal ambitons and struggle for control of thise two.

We suffered the same with Chretien and Martin. My only surprise is that the fall did not come sooner.

Though, I do not think it is too late to reverse the decline here if the Liberals can get a more visionary and articulate spokesman than Martin quickly in the pub;ic eye. I find it hard to comprehend how anyone can lose to this treacherous hypocrite, Harper.

Come on.

You can.

About every 2 or 3 days he comes up with a new first order of business should he be re-elected. He's making promises that fulfilled, make others impossible. He's lost track of who's promising what. He actually accused Layton of promising something Harper did during the last English language debate which I am sure that the rest of Canada found as laughable as I thought it was. He's dropping policy bombs in the middle of debates.

Martin can't run his own election campaign and he wants to govern a whole country.

I think the rest of Canada sees his desperation too.

[Harare]

Eureka, can you flesh this statement out a bit " I find it hard to comprehend how anyone can lose to this treacherous hypocrite, Harper."

What treachery and what hypocrisy are you basing this on. Try to keep it in line with the relative levels of expectations of behaviour found in Politics - the game of compromise.

Surely you are not going to tell us that you believe that the Libs or Dippers are so squeaky clean?

[geoffrey]

There was a story in the Herald today about Alberta Liberal candidates distancing themselves from Martin. One said they were "ashamed" of the tactics used be the party.

Pretty sad when your own candidates don't back you.

[Guest eureka]

You should stop flailing. I said I don't understand how anyone could lose to Harper: Martin or anyone. The neocon is a sitting duck.

Treachery! Everything from the hijacking of the conservative movement to the disguised aim of dismantling the country.

And what have the Libs or Dippers (?) being squeaky clean got to do woth the treachery of Harper?

[shoop]

The Liberals may not have been in freefall before, but they definitely are now!

There was a story in the Herald today about Alberta Liberal candidates distancing themselves from Martin. One said they were "ashamed" of the tactics used be the party.

Pretty sad when your own candidates don't back you.

[geoffrey]

I'm pretty sure eureka is the last standing Liberal in the forum. Congrats on your devotion, highly respected (actually not being sarcastic).

On another note, anyone care to venture a guess who'll win the power struggle out of the Liberals leadership convention? I think we can all be fairly sure that the Liberals will not win a majority, so Martin's job is definately done come the 24th.

I was really trying to think of some good possibilities... except none of them are projected to win their ridings. Thats really not a good reflection when your top deputies are struggling to even win their seat.

Anyone that says Ignatieff I immediately declare as completely crazy.

[Hicksey]

And what have the Libs or Dippers (?) being squeaky clean got to do woth the treachery of Harper?

Well, both are figments of someone's imagination, for starters.

Neither will one find a squeaky clean Liberal, nor will they find any evidence beyond the liberal conspiracy theories about the treachery of Harper.

[scribblet]

You may recall, August, that before the last election I wrote of the destruction of the Liberal Party. I likened the Canadian Party to that of Asquith and Lloyd George in Britain. There, the party was destroyed by the personal ambitons and struggle for control of thise two.

We suffered the same with Chretien and Martin. My only surprise is that the fall did not come sooner.

Though, I do not think it is too late to reverse the decline here if the Liberals can get a more visionary and articulate spokesman than Martin quickly in the pub;ic eye. I find it hard to comprehend how anyone can lose to this treacherous hypocrite, Harper.

Come on.

You can.

About every 2 or 3 days he comes up with a new first order of business should he be re-elected. He's making promises that fulfilled, make others impossible. He's lost track of who's promising what. He actually accused Layton of promising something Harper did during the last English language debate which I am sure that the rest of Canada found as laughable as I thought it was. He's dropping policy bombs in the middle of debates.

Martin can't run his own election campaign and he wants to govern a whole country.

I think the rest of Canada sees his desperation too.

While I might agree that without Martin (who has been a big disappointment) they would have been better off, they have still fumbled the campaign ball and of course, the lack of ethics etc. etc. Unusual as they've always done well, campaign wise. I take this as evidence that they are tired and worn out (as is Martin) and it is time for a change.

As far as the comments on Harper, - that dog don't hunt. The CPC platform is well articulated and most thinking people are now seeing beyond the malicious innuendo and scare tactics.

[August1991]

I'm pretty sure eureka is the last standing Liberal in the forum. Congrats on your devotion, highly respected (actually not being sarcastic).

On another note, anyone care to venture a guess who'll win the power struggle out of the Liberals leadership convention?

Let me say too that I appreciate eureka's presence here, and respect eureka's posts.

Liberal leadership prediction? Stéphane Dion.

[Hicksey]

I keep seeing eureka calling Harper a treacherous hypocrite.

We need to come with a good one for Martin. I think Treasonous Profiteer fits. He leads a whole party of profiteers that steal from their own Country.

You will notice Martin won't release the names of the 7 people who took the stolen money so there must still be some honour left among thieves.

[Riverwind]

Liberal leadership prediction? Stéphane Dion.

Isn't he reviled in Francophone Quebec or its is just the seperatists that he pissed off?

[BubberMiley]

Is there a difference between francophone Quebec and the separatists?

[Guest eureka]

Geoffrey!

Just for your information! The only major political party I ever belonged to was the Conservative party. That was a long time ago and I was President of a Youg Conservative Assn.

It was also in the days when there was such a thing as a conservative Conservative: something Canada has not seen in much more than a generation.

My ideas have evolved - you must have heard that word hypocritically used lately - and I would be a socialist even if there were a conservative party still in existence.

But it is why I do still have some patience for the Conservative posters on the forum. It is just sad, really sad, that they have not experienced civilization under either political philosophy.

Sometimes it is depressing to think of a future with so many brain washed automatons, though. 1984 ish.

[geoffrey]

Geoffrey!

Just for your information! The only major political party I ever belonged to was the Conservative party. That was a long time ago and I was President of a Youg Conservative Assn.

It was also in the days when there was such a thing as a conservative Conservative: something Canada has not seen in much more than a generation.

My ideas have evolved - you must have heard that word hypocritically used lately - and I would be a socialist even if there were a conservative party still in existence.

But it is why I do still have some patience for the Conservative posters on the forum. It is just sad, really sad, that they have not experienced civilization under either political philosophy.

Sometimes it is depressing to think of a future with so many brain washed automatons, though. 1984 ish.

Well I express my apologies for the misunderstanding, I was basing that view on your defense of some of the Liberal views expressed in this campaign, and dismissal of some of the conservative proposals. I wasn't intending to label you as a Liberal, more as a small-l type liberal (however convoluted this term has become). Your description of yourself as a socialist would be more fair and accurate, and for this, I apologize.

I really hope you didn't take offense because none was intended, I actually find your opinions on the issues very informative and accurate. One of the few from the left (and right for that matter) around here that I listen to their criticisms and ideas because they are about issues and not induviduals attacks.

I also strongly agree that real conservativism to the point where I truly would agree with hasn't been seen in Canada since I've been alive. I just find that the current situation with the Conservative Party is the best compromise possible, in a country thats population is against alot of conservative thinking. The West has been the only real supporter of conservativism in Canada for the last few years, and from this we have this 'evolved' (not positively) form of conservatism, which is far different from the historical conservative parties in Canada. I hope one day that these real conservative values can return, but I don't see this in the near future.

Your going to find alot of these 'automatons' in both the Liberal and the Conservative parties these days. Both parties have their faithful so trained to dismiss all ideas that aren't brandished with the party logo. Even when both parties offer relatively similiar concepts.

Sorry about the off-topic nature of this post, but I felt an apology and clarification was in order.

[Guest eureka]

You has nothing to apologize for, Geoffrey. I just thought I should put some of myself on record. And I don't take offense that easily.

If I did, how would I ever convert you or alert you you to the danger ahead!