August1991 Posted October 21, 2023 Report Share Posted October 21, 2023 (edited) In Quebec, we collect and manage our own pension scheme. Canada"s federal Constitution allows us to do this. Why would Alberta be different? Alberta should have its own CPPIB - if it wants. ==== Pierre Trudeau ensured that our federal pension system is transferable. Edited October 21, 2023 by August1991 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted October 21, 2023 Report Share Posted October 21, 2023 It is their choice and i do believe that they will be given that opportunity if they want - but for alberta it's got more pros and cons than quebec for several reasons. As long as there's no 'backsies' if it goes sideways i think they should consider it and decide what's best for them. Trudeau doesn't want them to for fear everyone will and he won't have control over that money any more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted October 21, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2023 (edited) 20 minutes ago, CdnFox said: It is their choice and i do believe that they will be given that opportunity if they want - but for alberta it's got more pros and cons than quebec for several reasons. As long as there's no 'backsies' if it goes sideways i think they should consider it and decide what's best for them. Trudeau doesn't want them to for fear everyone will and he won't have control over that money any more The "backsies" is a Pierre Trudeau guarantee: the CPP/RRQ is transferrable.. Wherever you have worked in Canada, however wherever you paid in, you receive the same. ==== There is a fiction that this "money is saved" - bas de laine, as they say. Maybe. Norway - like the Caisse - has collected paper claims on real assets. Edited October 21, 2023 by August1991 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted October 21, 2023 Report Share Posted October 21, 2023 21 minutes ago, August1991 said: The "backsies" is a Pierre Trudeau guarantee: the CPP/RRQ is transferrable.. Wherever you have worked in Canada, however wherever you paid in, you receive the same. no - 'backsies' would be if they switch to their own system, it crashes, and then the rest of canada has to pay to give them their benefits anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted October 21, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2023 I frankly like the Pierre Trudeau idea of RRQ/CPP. It is a federal system. Across provinces, the rules should be similar for collection. And when you decide to receive a pension, you should receive the same - more or less. If you work here or there, it should be included. It is a federal scheme. ==== What happens with the "money saved"? That's the question. Our RRQ/CPP contributions are a payroll tax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted October 23, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2023 As a young man, centuries ago, my English was not good. I worked in various parts of Canada. Older, retired, I was surprised to learn that my work there counted. ==== If you work in Alberta or Quebec, it should count. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted October 23, 2023 Report Share Posted October 23, 2023 8 minutes ago, August1991 said: As a young man, centuries ago, my English was not good. I worked in various parts of Canada. Older, retired, I was surprised to learn that my work there counted. ==== If you work in Alberta or Quebec, it should count. Well that would be the benefit of a canada wide system Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted October 23, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2023 15 minutes ago, CdnFox said: Well that would be the benefit of a canada wide system True. Maybe for pensions. === But certainly not for education. In Canada, education is a provincial issue. And health care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted October 23, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2023 The Caisse paid for the REM. Maybe a similar Alberta pension scheme could build a Calgary-Edmonton rail system. ==== Ordinary people put aside, delay consumption. They save for the future - they give-up now so their kids will have more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedDog Posted October 27, 2023 Report Share Posted October 27, 2023 Get Alberta money out of anything federal. Continued rape and pillaging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted October 27, 2023 Report Share Posted October 27, 2023 8 hours ago, RedDog said: Get Alberta money out of anything federal. Continued rape and pillaging. Sure. Guess you can stop using other provinces land for pipelines too right? I mean - you wouldn't want to be taking advantage of them right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian_Cavalier Posted October 27, 2023 Report Share Posted October 27, 2023 The APP would be very good for Albertans but very bad for national unity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted October 27, 2023 Report Share Posted October 27, 2023 4 minutes ago, Canadian_Cavalier said: The APP would be very good for Albertans but very bad for national unity. I don't think it would be a good idea for albertans. I mean there's still room for debate and i'm not 100 percent convinced but i see mostly downsides and not a lot of upsides. I think the potential for disaster is there. As far as national unit goes i see your point, but honestly i dont think anyone would really care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted October 28, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2023 16 hours ago, RedDog said: Get Alberta money out of anything federal. Continued rape and pillaging. Disagree. If ordinary Albertans want to work in Quebec, they should be free to do so. And their work should have a similar federal State pension system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted October 28, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2023 2 hours ago, Canadian_Cavalier said: The APP would be very good for Albertans but very bad for national unity. There is a huge fiction of "money saved" - how to divide the CPPIB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted October 28, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2023 (edited) The CPPIB and the Caisse are paper claims on real resources. Foolish people in Norway believe that - because of their savings - Norwegians will never have to work again. The Norwegian pension fund has some US $1.5 trillion - our Quebec fund is close. === My cat too will have food next morning. Edited October 28, 2023 by August1991 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrin Posted November 1, 2023 Report Share Posted November 1, 2023 If I had to guess the Alberta pension plan will be used as leverage in future oil sands and pipeline development. Were taking our half if u don't allow gateway or energy east. For example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted November 2, 2023 Report Share Posted November 2, 2023 On 11/1/2023 at 4:16 AM, Darrin said: If I had to guess the Alberta pension plan will be used as leverage in future oil sands and pipeline development. Were taking our half if u don't allow gateway or energy east. For example. That has been discussed in the past, but that is problematic for a few reasons. Consider for example the boom and bust nature of the energy industry - a bust at the wrong time could leave the province unable to pay it's commitments and lead to financial hardship. There's some other tricky issues as well. There will have to be some serious thought and cool deliberations before a decision is made Having said that if they give it serious thought and decide to go ahead i think that should be their choice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted November 4, 2023 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2023 (edited) At present, according to some calculations, the APP would have Cdn $350 billion. The Norwegian Pension Fund has about $US 1.5 trillion, In Quebec, the Caisse has about $300 billion. These are fictional numbers. They are paper claims on real assets. ==== There is a fundamental misunderstanding of current macroeconomic theory. Edited November 4, 2023 by August1991 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted November 4, 2023 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2023 (edited) On 11/1/2023 at 7:16 AM, Darrin said: If I had to guess the Alberta pension plan will be used as leverage in future oil sands and pipeline development. Were taking our half if u don't allow gateway or energy east. For example. In Quebec, the Caisse was used to build the REM. An APP would make the road between Edmonton and Calgary like Germany - three lanes, and like the 407., paid. On the left lane, drive as fast as you want! Edited November 4, 2023 by August1991 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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