Why *scary* won't work.

[shoop]

It is given that the Conservatives are winning the campaign at this point. Give credit to their disciplined, policy-driven campaign. Blame the Liberals unfocused, lackluster effort. Here and now they are winning.

So all they have to do is stick to the same playbook while the Liberals have to somehow change the dynamic.

Conventional wisdom says the only way for the Martinites to pull this one out of the hat is to play the *scary* *scary* *scary* card ... again. Unfortunately, it won't work this time around. And here is why, in the words of Warren Kinsella.

In order for an attack ad to work, it has to be factual or, at the very least, plausible. The Liberals' planned Harper Is Satan™ campaign is not plausible. Canadians have now had a couple years to see how Harper operates. He isn't neceessarily someone you'd cuddle with on the basement couch to watch 'Friends' reruns, but neither is any other politician. In this case, familiarity breeds a comfort level.

Can anybody come up with a scenario whereby the Liberals try *scary* *scary* *scary*, it doesn't work AND the Liberals still win the election?

Anybody? Buehler?

[err]

It is given that the Conservatives are winning the campaign at this point. Give credit to their disciplined, policy-driven campaign. Blame the Liberals unfocused, lackluster effort. Here and now they are winning.

It's a good thing they've got some of the real rednecks to keep quiet about the "freaken pervert homos", and the "free abortions for welfare bums", and "child porn is promoted by Liberals" type statements....

They've successfully backed off of what they once described as "convictions" relating to abortion and same-sex-marriage.... When you can adjust your convictions you become a liar....

[geoffrey]

It's a good thing they've got some of the real rednecks to keep quiet about the "freaken pervert homos", and the "free abortions for welfare bums", and "child porn is promoted by Liberals" type statements....

They've successfully backed off of what they once described as "convictions" relating to abortion and same-sex-marriage.... When you can adjust your convictions you become a liar....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just like Paul Martin, the adament opponent of SSM in 1999.

The Conservatives have brought in members that have less extremist views. With the Liberals, we are dealing the the same old.

Nice try but you really got to do better than that. Oh, and please, can you give us some references for those quotes? Thanks.

[tml12]

It is given that the Conservatives are winning the campaign at this point. Give credit to their disciplined, policy-driven campaign. Blame the Liberals unfocused, lackluster effort. Here and now they are winning.

It's a good thing they've got some of the real rednecks to keep quiet about the "freaken pervert homos", and the "free abortions for welfare bums", and "child porn is promoted by Liberals" type statements....

They've successfully backed off of what they once described as "convictions" relating to abortion and same-sex-marriage.... When you can adjust your convictions you become a liar....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Typical criticism of the right from the left. Just like the Liberals have convictions, right err?

As for the NDP, they have never governed this country so they don't have to worry about that their convicitions holding up.

[wellandboy]

[.... When you can adjust your convictions you become a liar....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry, I don't agree. As an example 10 years ago I fully supported capital punishment. Now I don't. It's a topic I debated with different people and pondered every side of the argument. I concluded that in our civilized society, capital punishment is not an acceptable alternative. I see that as a personal evolution and do not view myself as a hypocrite or a liar. To state categorically that because an individual or group has changed their position after reasoned debate is to say the least unfair.

To suggest that in any party there are not extreme members is false and if you support the NDP you know that's true. What emerges is generally a more moderate stance that embraces common beliefs. The Conservatives have finally accomplished that as well.

A common complaint I hear from Liberals is the leadership has distanced themselves from the grassroots starting under Chretien and continuing under Martin. That's why they're in the predicament they're in now.

[betsy]

Yesterday, after the scoop on the new RCMP investigation on Mike Duffy Count Down, the media guests sort of poked fun at the Liberals.

Apparently the Liberals are claiming that "they've got a mole!"

They also claim that they know this "mole" is a Chretienite who wants to wreak havoc to Martin's campaign.

One guest warned, "if you're working in the Liberal war room, better hide under your desk!"

Mike Duffy wondered out loud about this latest claim, "gee...do they put drugs in their water coolers?"

So, no.....the "scary-scary" campaign against Harper won't work this time.

[wellandboy]

Yesterday, after the scoop on the new RCMP investigation on Mike Duffy Count Down, the media guests sort of poked fun at the Liberals.

Apparently the Liberals are claiming that "they've got a mole!"

They also claim that they know this "mole" is a Chretienite who wants to wreak havoc to Martin's campaign.

One guest warned, "if you're working in the Liberal war room, better hide under your desk!"

Mike Duffy wondered out loud about this latest claim, "gee...do they put drugs in their water coolers?"

So, no.....the "scary-scary" campaign against Harper won't work this time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A mole! Did you say a mole! This is getting better than a John LeCarre novel. They really are raising this to a new level of absurd. The little smiley ha ha is a spy.

[betsy]

Yesterday, after the scoop on the new RCMP investigation on Mike Duffy Count Down, the media guests sort of poked fun at the Liberals.

Apparently the Liberals are claiming that "they've got a mole!"

They also claim that they know this "mole" is a Chretienite who wants to wreak havoc to Martin's campaign.

One guest warned, "if you're working in the Liberal war room, better hide under your desk!"

Mike Duffy wondered out loud about this latest claim, "gee...do they put drugs in their water coolers?"

So, no.....the "scary-scary" campaign against Harper won't work this time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A mole! Did you say a mole! This is getting better than a John LeCarre novel. They really are raising this to a new level of absurd. The little smiley ha ha is a spy.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yep. They actually said "a mole!"

Then they ribbed John Duffy (Liberal strategist) also guesting in the show...and he said it would not be the first time.

Speaking of John Duffy. The first time I saw him I automatically noted how rude he was...and so "in-your-face" mouthy.

Obviously last night, the whole thing was getting to him. He sort of snapped at Mike Duffy...and blasted at the "moral vacuousness" of the media. He accused the oppositions of playing on the scandal.

Conservative rep said that they could not help but touch on the scandals and corruptions since the Liberals are running on their track record.....scandals and corruptions are a part of that track record. It's amazing how NDP and Conservative really ganged up on him. It was good to see John Duffy gasping for words.

[shoop]

That has been the big problem with the Martin *brain trust*.

They truly believe they have a divine right to lead this country. Anybody who disagrees with them or gets in their way is a lacking intellectually, a bad person and/or an enemy of Canada.

Snapping at the media and making baseless accusations is great Liberal strategy. For the Conservatives.

Speaking of John Duffy.  The first time I saw him  I automatically noted how rude he was...and so "in-your-face" mouthy. 

Obviously last night, the whole thing was getting to him. He sort of snapped at Mike Duffy...and blasted at the "moral vacuousness" of the media.  He accused the oppositions of playing on the scandal.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[tml12]

That has been the big problem with the Martin *brain trust*.

They truly believe they have a divine right to lead this country. Anybody who disagrees with them or gets in their way is a lacking intellectually, a bad person and/or an enemy of Canada.

Snapping at the media and making baseless accusations is great Liberal strategy. For the Conservatives. 

Speaking of John Duffy.  The first time I saw him  I automatically noted how rude he was...and so "in-your-face" mouthy. 

Obviously last night, the whole thing was getting to him. He sort of snapped at Mike Duffy...and blasted at the "moral vacuousness" of the media.  He accused the oppositions of playing on the scandal.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Liberal Party believes they own Canada. After all, they created the Joe Canadian myths of Canada and anti-American hatred. Canada is a strong Canada but we have been weakened by Liberal lies and hypocrisy. Canadian federalism is in serious trouble. Only the Conservatives can give this federation a chance to survive.

[err]

[.... When you can adjust your convictions you become a liar....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry, I don't agree. As an example 10 years ago I fully supported capital punishment. Now I don't. It's a topic I debated with different people and pondered every side of the argument. I concluded that in our civilized society, capital punishment is not an acceptable alternative. I see that as a personal evolution and do not view myself as a hypocrite or a liar. To state categorically that because an individual or group has changed their position after reasoned debate is to say the least unfair.

Well stated, and I should not have generalized so broadly... However in the case of the CPC, I will contend that the CPC's social agenda appears to have more weight than their fiscal agenda. I qualify this with the fact that Harper came our sounding like a fiscal Liberal (to sound different from Paul Martin who is a fiscal Conservative, except when he is desperate to get elected).... And they've all but buried their social agenda.... a wolf in granny's dress is still a wolf....

To suggest that in any party there are not extreme members is false and if you support the NDP you know that's true. What emerges is generally a more moderate stance that embraces common beliefs. The Conservatives have finally accomplished that as well.

It appears that they have learned to hide their true agenda to get elected. From Harper's history of extreme right-wing stances, his slurs of Canadians in speeches to the Republican party, his two-faced stance on SSM, his thrice changing his position on abortion (last campaign), I would think that my sense of reality would have to wharp considerably before I could accept that Harper's current positions are not a facade.... this is not a granny, but a wolf in granny's dress.....

A common complaint I hear from Liberals is the leadership has distanced themselves from the grassroots starting under Chretien and continuing under Martin. That's why they're in the predicament they're in now.

(Chretian had a Conservative Finance Minister... Paul Martin)

[wellandboy]

Adaption and evolution as a result of the marriage between the Alliance and the PC's is largely to credit for the change. Then of course there's the Liberal, who by their very nature can't seem to change. The single biggest issue of this campaign has been about cleaning up government. Both the NDP and CPC have stated sweeping changes, the Libs are running on their record. That means business a usual and that is scary.

[shoop]

Ahhh, the good old hidden agenda.

Sorry to say it yet again, but that won't really work this time around. Canadians see the corruption that buying into the hidden agends line has created.

If there truly was a hidden agenda why didn't Scott Brison or Belinda Stronach expose it when they crossed the floor?

What exactly have they done to *hide* the agenda this time around?

It appears that they have learned to hide their true agenda to get elected. From Harper's history of extreme right-wing stances, his slurs of Canadians in speeches to the Republican party, his two-faced stance on SSM, his thrice changing his position on abortion (last campaign), I would think that my sense of reality would have to wharp considerably before I could accept that Harper's current positions are not a facade.... this is not a granny, but a wolf in granny's dress.....

[BubberMiley]

When you can adjust your convictions you become a liar....

I'd say when you can't adjust your convictions, you become brain dead.

If there truly was a hidden agenda why didn't Scott Brison or Belinda Stronach expose it when they crossed the floor?

Stronach said "I didn't get involved in putting the two parties together so we could break up the country." Destroying the central government and replacing it with regional fiefdoms with firewalls around them could be considered a hidden agenda, considering they certainly aren't mentioning it during the campaign.

[shoop]

Uhhhh, yeah. You are joking ... aren't you?

Not even the strongest of Martinites would say that the Conservatives *hidden agenda* is a desire to break up the country.

Stronach said "I didn't get involved in putting the two parties together so we could break up the country." Destroying the central government and replacing it with regional fiefdoms with firewalls around them could be considered a hidden agenda, considering they certainly aren't mentioning it during the campaign.

[tml12]

Uhhhh, yeah. You are joking ... aren't you?

Not even the strongest of Martinites would say that the Conservatives *hidden agenda* is a desire to break up the country.

Stronach said "I didn't get involved in putting the two parties together so we could break up the country." Destroying the central government and replacing it with regional fiefdoms with firewalls around them could be considered a hidden agenda, considering they certainly aren't mentioning it during the campaign.

Yes they would Shoop. The Liberals preach hate and lies. Certainly they must believe some of them...

[shoop]

Yeah, I forgot lack of any conviction really is as bad as it sounds.

Yes they would Shoop. The Liberals preach hate and lies. Certainly they must believe some of them...

[BubberMiley]

Decentralization of federal power to the provinces has nothing to do with hate, and it's no lie that Harper and the Reform party supported it (and practically founded their party on the principle). Whether or not you agree that this is "breaking up the country" is probably just a question of semantics.

[tml12]

Decentralization of federal power to the provinces has nothing to do with hate, and it's no lie that Harper and the Reform party supported it (and practically founded their party on the principle). Whether or not you agree that this is "breaking up the country" is probably just a question of semantics.

Huh? Of course Harper supports it. What's the point?

[shoop]

This semantics is forming a strange little circle that doesn't really match.

Harper's hidden agenda is breaking up Canada.

Evidence of his desire to break up Canada is to devolve power to the provinces.

Devolution of power to the provinces is a major plank of his platform.

How is this a hidden agenda again?

Huh? Of course Harper supports it. What's the point?

[tml12]

This semantics is forming a strange little circle that doesn't really match.

Harper's hidden agenda is breaking up Canada.

Evidence of his desire to break up Canada is to devolve power to the provinces.

Devolution of power to the provinces is a major plank of his platform.

How is this a hidden agenda again?

Huh? Of course Harper supports it. What's the point?

The Liberal Party imposes Canada on Quebec. The Conservative Party acknowledges the democratic deficit and promises to allow Quebec to have more autonomy in confederation. The CPC plan is a bit like sovereignty-association...by letting Quebec have more autonomy the CPC will not anger Quebec and impose federalism on Quebec. Quebec prospers in Canada...western Canada is happy...Canada is strong.

[BubberMiley]

Canada wouldn't be strong. Unless you consider Europe a strong country, because Canada would just become a collection of trading partners with a common currency. The only problem is most of those partners would be tiny; some of them are so small and isolated, they could wind up with Third World economies in 20 years (though I suppose if you don't live there, you don't care). Considering trade between provinces is already often more difficult than with the U.S. because of provincial trade restrictions, I just don't think it's good for the country as a whole to break it up any further.

I know Quebec may never be happy any other way, and if that's the case, see you later. I'd rather see the country redefine itself with a strong, unified central government without Quebec than break up into 12 "associated" pieces.

[tml12]

Canada wouldn't be strong. Unless you consider Europe a strong country, because Canada would just become a collection of trading partners with a common currency. The only problem is most of those partners would be tiny; some of them are so small and isolated, they could wind up with Third World economies in 20 years (though I suppose if you don't live there, you don't care). Considering trade between provinces is already often more difficult than with the U.S. because of provincial trade restrictions, I just don't think it's good for the country as a whole to break it up any further.

I know Quebec may never be happy any other way, and if that's the case, see you later. I'd rather see the country redefine itself with a strong, unified central government without Quebec than break up into 12 "associated" pieces.

Canada With The Liberals=A west that hates the federal government and Quebec where separatism is at an all-time high.

Canada With A Conservative Government=A renewed chance for Canadian federalism...a stronger Canada...a Canada where all provincial parts of ths great nation could be heard and could grow stronger...

[BubberMiley]

I'm from the west, and the hatred for the federal government I hear is coming largely from Alberta. I think that's mostly a money thing. They're just tired of sharing.

[tml12]

I'm from the west, and the hatred for the federal government I hear is coming largely from Alberta. I think that's mostly a money thing. They're just tired of sharing.

Yes and from most other western establishments...