Muslims and Integration

[Argus]

I'm as much searching for information as wishing to discuss a problem. There is precious little information about minorities in Canada except the fawning, travelogue variety. The media are too terrified of being seen as racist, or at least, not supportive of multiculturalism to delve too deeply into whatever problems there might be with ethnic communities. For example, I have gotten many hints and bits and pieces of information which appear to show that large numbers of Muslims go "home" to find a mate, then bring them here, in order to preserve the familiy's cultural values on to the next generation. But I've seen no studies or statistics as I have for some Scandinavian countries. The following story from the Christian Science Monitor speaks about the lack of integration of Muslims in Europe. I'm wondering if things are very much better here, or if we're just not hearing about the problems.

And if things are better here, why? Are we taking the American melting pot approach more than the European multiculturalism approach, which appears to have failed?

What they've reaped, alas, is a generation of Muslims, many of whom view their neighborhoods as colonies amid enemy territory - and who demand this autonomy be recognized. In Britain, imams have pressed the government to designate part of Bradford as being under Muslim law. In Belgium, Muslims in the Brussels neighborhood of Sint-Jans-Molenbeek consider it to be under Islamic jurisdiction. In Denmark, Muslim leaders have sought similar control over parts of Copenhagen. In France, an official met with an imam at the edge of Roubaix's Muslim district out of respect for his declaration that it was Islamic territory. In many cities, police have stopped patrolling certain enclaves, the authorities having effectively ceded control to local religious leaders.

Muslims don't want to integrate.

[scribblet]

Generally speaking IMHO Muslims here have integrated better than in Europe, but also we do not have the same numbers. However, the request for some Sharia Law in Ontario was unsettling, I was thankful McGuinty had the guts to say no to that one.

Europe (including Britain) have serious problems, many or most not reported in our media, one has to go on line to read other newspaper reports. I never did see any real coverage of riots in other countries when France was burning. It is hard to discuss the issue as accusations of racism generally raise their ugly heads, which is why I think the MSM doesn't write much about problems in Europe.

http://www.jp.dk/aar/artikel:aid=3354408/

several nights in a row, there has been the worst riots in Århus for many years.

"This land belongs to us", declared the young rioters. Another arson attack took place sunday night.

Sunday evening the fire department needed police escorts to get in and extinguish an arsonist fire in Søndervangs Alle.

The words of the young muslims sound like an open declaration of war against Danish society. The police must stay away. This area belongs to immigrants.

Four youngsters sit at the wall in the Rosenhøj center, sunday afternoon, self decleared spokesmen, for those groups who three nights in a row has rioted, and put business on fire.

All around the parking lot, there are swarms of cars with youngster from the immigrant community, who are celebrating the worst riots in Århus in several years.

Every night, 30 to 40 immigrant youngsters participated. Only two are under arrest.

It was a victory.

"We knew that you would come. We are the spokesmen", said one young man with his face covered.

He was angry. Very angry. Petrol though the window.

At the back of the house was a window broken, and the fire was burning wildly, probably because of petrol that had been thrown in.

The fire engines waited for police escort so they could enter in and try to put out the fires. Bricks from the street have been thrown and crushed windowns all up the street.

The police reports that the youngsters came to the area armed with rocks that they brought in.

Rocks against a bakery.

Saturday, a 16 year old from Somalia was jailed for comitting dangerous violence, because he attacked a bakery with large rocks. One rock barely missed the bakers face.

Raids.

snip

"The police has to stay away. This is our area. We rule this place"

[PocketRocket]

These people need to be told FIRMLY, upon immigrating to a new country, that this country has it's own set of laws, and these are the laws of the land.

If you do not like these laws, you are welcome to return from whence you came, where the laws are presumably more to your liking.

As for areas wherein riots are occuring and territory is being claimed by these immigrants, it sounds like it's time to impose martial law, curfews, and a bunch of military-trained rooftop snipers in the worst trouble areas.

Disobey curfew???

Punishable by imprisonment.

Disobey curfew and be seen looting by a sniper???

Then your ass belongs to the sniper.

[Leafless]

Concerning Muslim intergration or are Canadians intergrating into Muslim society.

I think Muslims in general do not intergrate outside basically buisness dealings.

Proof is now is that they do establish there own Muslim sections of cities and provinces, mingle among each other and have their own temples of worship.

Add to this Islam clashes with Cristianity and our government supports outright condemnation and open critizism of Canada's major religion Christianity from members or groups of Islam religion.

Islam in itself certainly has no track record as a peacful religion and has been rooted world wide events concerning genocide linked to "honour killings", murderer suicide bombers, throat cutting, wife beating.

This in turn could or partly has to what degree no one is quite sure to foster or create feelings concerning Islamphobia, xenphobia or just plain distrust against Muslims in general.

I think this is the last thing Canada should be doing as a country especially after it's experiences with enforcing it's concept of a dual linguistic Canada and now interfering with Canada's major traditonal religion basically selling it down the drain in favour of supporting a not so peaceful imported religion which will or has created animosity in many Canadians towards our federal governmnet and Muslims who canot seem to intergrate in a normal sense.

[BubberMiley]

Canada's traditional religion is dead here. The tradition is over. No one goes to church at all anymore. We worship at the altar of secularism. Christmas is a celebration of consumerism. Get over it, Leafless. You're the minority now so it's time you start fighting for minority religious rights. Time to get in bed with the muslims.

[Leafless]

BubberMiley

Thanks to your Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

Great charter, eh Bubber!

[BubberMiley]

Personally, I'm not a great fan of the charter. I always thought of it as a scheme by lawyers to get more work.

[kimmy]

What they've reaped, alas, is a generation of Muslims, many of whom view their neighborhoods as colonies amid enemy territory - and who demand this autonomy be recognized. In Britain, imams have pressed the government to designate part of Bradford as being under Muslim law. In Belgium, Muslims in the Brussels neighborhood of Sint-Jans-Molenbeek consider it to be under Islamic jurisdiction. In Denmark, Muslim leaders have sought similar control over parts of Copenhagen. In France, an official met with an imam at the edge of Roubaix's Muslim district out of respect for his declaration that it was Islamic territory. In many cities, police have stopped patrolling certain enclaves, the authorities having effectively ceded control to local religious leaders.

Muslims don't want to integrate.

If it ever happens that ethnic enclaves in Canada start proclaiming their jurisdiction, I'm going to be their with my own torch and gas can to start burning shit. Absolutely unacceptable. Not in this country. Never.

-k

[BubberMiley]

If you don't like it, torch it.

[Leafless]

Kimmy

You wrote- " If that ever happens that ethnic enclaves start proclaiming their jurisdiction, Iam going to be there with my own torch and gas can to start burning shit. Absolutely unacceptable. Not in this country. Never."

Well, the charter almost guarantees the frationation of groups and cultures.

Some will argue the main reason The Charter of Rights and Freedoms was initially implemented by Pierre Trudeau and the Liberals was to ensure Quebec would never have to be assimilated.

This has allowed Quebec along with the NWC the status of a distinct society something Meech and Charlottetown was never able to do and will basically allow ethnic and diverse groups to do the same.

In fact the Aboriginals, Quebec and now the start of ethnic and probably soon diverse groups to live a segregated lifestyle consisting of societies or mini-socities.

[BubberMiley]

You seem like you might enjoy having your own mini-society where sex and porn are banned and people speak freely in run-on sentences.

[Leafless]

BubberMiley

You wrote- " You seem like you might enjoy having your own mini-society where sex and porn are banned and people speak freely in run on sentences."

I belong to the MAJORITY who think religon is a good thing and part of Canadian society who will one way or the other reclaim the country to restore it to it's previous conditon -minus the Charter which in the hands of a totalitarian anti-democratic government is an extremely dangerous piece of legislation.

You are the one that belongs to a small aggressive secularist mini-society that think you can bestow corruption with drugs and adverse lifestyles thanks to the destructive charter and present government that agree with allowing and flooding the country with corruption which is nothing new with the Liberals anyways.

I have ask you before and you did not reply to name me one successful society where everyone is equal??

[BubberMiley]

According to religioustolerance.org, in 1990-91 38% of Canadians go to church regularly, but "the true figures show that only about 20% of Americans and 10% of Canadians actually go to church one or more times a week. Many Americans and Canadians tell pollsters that they have gone to church even though they have not. Whether this happens in other countries, with different cultures, is difficult to predict."

That puts you solidly in the minority. The majority is blissfully agnostic and secular and not at all self-righteous (OK, a little but not as bad). And we live in a highly successful, equal-as-it-can-be country called Canada (where I wear my Maple Leaf proudly).

[BubberMiley]

Oh, and if you don't like the sounds of religioustolerance.org (because I know you can't tolerate the tolerant), how about christianity.ca, which says "By 2000, weekly attendance had hit a low of 21 percent of Canadians, but surveys in 2002 and 2003 by Mr. Bibby, Vision TV, and Allan Gregg's Strategic Counsel pegged weekly attendance at levels ranging from 26 to 30 percent."

So attendance is on its way up, but that includes all religions. So I would say at least 70-74 percent are not practicing christians. But I would agree with you that the few of you left shouldn't be allowed to form a mini-society.

[Leafless]

Bubbermiley

You wrote- " The majority is blisfully agnostic."

I DON'T think so!

Stats Canada for 2001 pegs Canada's population at 29,639 035.

Here are the stats for religious affiliation.

Catholic- 12,936,935

Protestant- 8,654,850

Christian Orthodox- 479,620

Muslim- 579,640

Jewish- 329,995

Buddhist-300,345

Hindu- 297,200

Sikh- 278,410

Eastern religions- 37,550

other religions- 63,975

No religion- 4,900,090

Looks like your blisfully in the minority!

[BubberMiley]

I would fall under

Protestant- 8,654,850

That doesn't mean I go to church. I provided you with data of people who actually practice religion, not people whose families used to go to church. Former traditions and two bits will buy a phone call. They don't count for much. Canadians have replaced religion with TV and Internet and celebrity worship and drugs and porn. I know you don't like it, but judging from your posts you certainly don't disagree with that.