Sad When People Purposely Mislabel the NDP

[Slavik44]

Ok Slavik, so what you're saying is there are a bunch of political parties running around calling themselves socialists, even though they don't believe in socialism.

No I am sayign the NDP is a social democrat party jsut like it says it is, tha tis not socialism.

I don't need to read hot air and propaganda about equality and freedoms for all, blah blah blah.

Well that would explain why you don't know what you are talking about, you refuse to read your own posts.

There's not a single political party in the world that would out and say they are against those "ideals". People have been fighting for freedom and equality since man has walked this earth.

exactly so espousing those views can not make a party socialist it makes it human, espousing the view that there must be nationaliziation of all industries and a government planned economy that would be socialism.

What's very real is the imbalance the NDP tries to impose in an attempt to cripple capitalism, which will in turn destroy this country and put countless people out of jobs.

As I said many people will not apreciate the NDP's Left wing policies, but these left wing policies are not socialism.

They are very much socialists and are even open to admit it. It says right in the party constitution that they're a socialist party, they belong to an international socialist organization

FOR THE THIRD TIME

1.The constitution of the democratic party

The New Democratic Party believes that the social, economic and political progress of Canada can be assured only by the application of democratic socialist principles to government and the administration of public affairs."

2. The constitution of the Socialist International

THE SOCIALIST INTERNATIONAL is an association of political parties and organisations which seek to establish democratic socialism.

3. The definition of democratic socialism as defined by the socialist international

"Democratic socialism is an international movement for freedom, social justice and solidarity. Its goal is to achieve a peaceful world where these basic values can be enhanced and where each individual can live a meaningful life with the full development of his or her personality and talents and with the guarantee of human and civil rights in a democratic framework of society."

and they skew labour laws towards unions.

As I said some may not apreciate the left wing policies of the party

To argue that they're not, when clearly they say they are, and that Socialist International themselves are not socialist is just plain stupid.

I am calling the NDP exactly what they are Social Democrats, which is exactly what is in their party constitution and is exactly what is in the constitution of the socialist international.

Now what is stupid is your inability to admit your error, The party constitution does not say they are a socialist party.

[mowich]

Jack Layton is a fine man as I'm sure are all NDP candidates, no matter that they are all completely deluded. The NDP party is based on Marxist doctrine and we saw just how well that worked in the Soviet Union. Under an NDP government we would be regulated to death, cared for from cradle to grave and dependent on the government for every aspect of our lives. They do not understand that it is not the business of the government to create jobs it is the business of the private sector. They would create jobs by increasing the number of people in the public service, government jobs, union jobs, paid sick leave and vacation, fat pensions and so on. They would need these people to administer all the departments they would create to regulate our lives.

One of the reasons our health care system is in such bad shape is due directly to the huge amount of money spent for its administration. The few dollars left are hardly enough to fund new hospitals, better equipment and staff.

Successful private corporations that create jobs, pay taxes (to fund health care) and contribute to the GNP are held accountable by their shareholders. If they don't make money for the company and thus the shareholders they are soon out of business.

Governments under any party are held accountable only at election time, if even then. They are free to use our tax dollars any way they choose, hence the Quebec AD Scam scandle and the use of our money to fund the liberal campaign.

An NDP government following its totally socialist policies, held unaccountable for their term would bankrupt the country.

We will never see an NDP government in this country, thank the Goddess, there are far too many people who are willing and ready to stand on their own two feet and make their way in this world with the least government intervention possible. They are self-reliant individuals not afraid to take risks. Willing to try and fail and try again. They do not belong to the current culture of government dependency. They are the people who contribute the most to the creation of wealth in this country. And wealth creates jobs, real jobs not government make work projects. Jobs that allow people to pay taxes to fund the various social programs. Jobs where people are free to be all they can, excel as best they can unhindered by the constraints imposed by unions. Jobs wherein they are held accountable for their work. These are the people who still hold the reins of power in our country, and we are better off for them.

[Slavik44]

Jack Layton is a fine man as I'm sure are all NDP candidates, no matter that they are all completely deluded.  The NDP party is based on Marxist doctrine and we saw just how well that worked in the Soviet Union.  Under an NDP government we would be regulated to death, cared for from cradle to grave and dependent on the government for every aspect of our lives.  They do not understand that it is not the business of the government to create jobs it is the business of the private sector.  They would create jobs by increasing the number of people in the public service, government jobs, union jobs, paid sick leave and vacation, fat pensions and so on.  They would need these people to administer all the departments they would create to regulate our lives.

One of the reasons our health care system is in such bad shape is due directly to the huge amount of money spent for its administration.  The few dollars left are hardly enough to fund new hospitals, better equipment and staff.

Successful private corporations that create jobs, pay taxes (to fund health care) and contribute to the GNP are held accountable by their shareholders.  If they don't make money for the company and thus the shareholders they are soon out of business.

Governments under any party are held accountable only at election time, if even then.  They are free to use our tax dollars any way they choose, hence the Quebec AD Scam scandle and the use of our money to fund the liberal campaign.

An NDP government following its totally socialist policies, held unaccountable for their term would bankrupt the country.

We will never see an NDP government in this country, thank the Goddess, there are far too many people who are willing and ready to stand on their own two feet and make their way in this world with the least government intervention possible.  They are self-reliant individuals not afraid to take risks.  Willing to try and fail and try again.  They do not belong to the current culture of government dependency. They are the people who contribute the most to the creation of wealth in this country.  And wealth creates jobs, real jobs not government make work projects.  Jobs that allow people to pay taxes to fund the various social programs. Jobs where people are free to be all they can, excel as best they can unhindered by the constraints imposed by unions.  Jobs wherein they are held accountable for their work.  These are the people who still hold the reins of power in our country, and we are better off for them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What you have described is not marxism it is your opinion of left wing policies.

[cybercoma]

Slavik, it has already been posted, but I'll post it again since you seem to be either missing it or ignoring it:

The principles of democratic socialism can be defined briefly as:

That the production and distribution of goods and services shall be directed to meeting the social and individual needs of people within a sustainable environment and economy and not to the making of profit;

To modify and control the operations of the monopolistic productive and distributive organizations through economic and social planning. Towards these ends and where necessary the extension of the principle of social ownership;

Which is directly in the Constitution of the NDP, whereas this cheerful flowery bit of obfuscated tripe is from the Socialist International texts:

The definition of democratic socialism as defined by the socialist international

"Democratic socialism is an international movement for freedom, social justice and solidarity.

Sounds pretty contradictory. I don't know how on one hand you can say production and distribution of goods and services shall not be for profit, yet advocate freedom. I don't know how you can control producers and distributers, while advocating solidarity.

[cybercoma]

It is absolutely beyond me why people would want to give the government total control over how they make their living and what opportunities they're allowed. A government that controls everything can take everything away and that's something, as a freedom loving nation, we should do everything in our power to fight.

[Guest eureka]

Just how ignorant is it possible to be! Do the schools and universities teac anything about history these days.

When I see a statement like "the NDP is based om Marxist principles," I have to wonder whether we should return to a more limited franchise until the populace is educated enough to merir having the vote.

Socialism predates Marxism and has always been a philosophical enemy of Marxism.

Further, as I have said earlier. there are at least six major strands of Socialism as the root of today's beliefs. None is Marxist and all have provided an intellectual stimulus to Socialism that none of the other "creeds" have any more.

[scribblet]

It is absolutely beyond me why people would want to give the government total control over how they make their living and what opportunities they're allowed.  A government that controls everything can take everything away and that's something, as a freedom loving nation, we should do everything in our power to fight.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sometimes I think the only people who believe that are those who are not capable of thinking for themselves or taking responsibility for their own actions. Fortunately enough people recognize that the NDP would take more control and eventually increase taxes etc.. I think they also realize that should the NDP gain power, we would see an exodus of companies and jobs.

[pharmer]

It is absolutely beyond me why people would want to give the government total control over how they make their living and what opportunities they're allowed.  A government that controls everything can take everything away and that's something, as a freedom loving nation, we should do everything in our power to fight.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

One of the goals of democratic socialism (the most significant in my opinion) is to ensure the world’s resources are used in a sustainable manner. This is a very simple definition of what such a government (democratic socialist gov’t) would work towards.

What business, you might ask, does government have controlling the consumption of resources within a country?

If one examines some of the negative effects of globalization (degradation of environment, unsustainable use of resources, human rights violations in developing countries) it can be suggested that private, multinational corporations are not being responsible for the manufacturing, distribution and consumption of their products/services. This is simply because they are not accountable to anyone BUT their bottom-line. Therefore, the incentive for sustainable, responsible use of resources and labour can be implemented by the government of the country from where such labour and resource are being obtained.

The result would be a more conscientious private-sector which could still make a profit, but would also be accountable to the environment, labour laws and the *responsible* distribution and disposal of their products.

If we leave this responsibility to multi-nationals the consequences will be grave as they will not stop to consider the repercussions of their practices.

“Only after the last tree has been cut down

Only after the last river has been poisoned

Only after the last fish has been caught

Only then will you find that your money cannot be eaten.”- Cree Indian Prophecy.

[Slavik44]

Slavik, it has already been posted, but I'll post it again since you seem to be either missing it or ignoring it:

The principles of democratic socialism can be defined briefly as:

That the production and distribution of goods and services shall be directed to meeting the social and individual needs of people within a sustainable environment and economy and not to the making of profit;

To modify and control the operations of the monopolistic productive and distributive organizations through economic and social planning. Towards these ends and where necessary the extension of the principle of social ownership;

Which is directly in the Constitution of the NDP, whereas this cheerful flowery bit of obfuscated tripe is from the Socialist International texts:

The definition of democratic socialism as defined by the socialist international

"Democratic socialism is an international movement for freedom, social justice and solidarity.

Sounds pretty contradictory. I don't know how on one hand you can say production and distribution of goods and services shall not be for profit, yet advocate freedom. I don't know how you can control producers and distributers, while advocating solidarity.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You know currently cyber coma there is a bit of a debate going on. You see there are people that belive that Adam and steve should be allowed to marry each other and by not allowing them to do so, you are violatign their constitutional rights. However, there remaisn some that say allowing them to marry is a violation of my constitutional rights.

The fact is I have never heard of a constitution that has no ambiguities or a constitution that has only one interpretation. That is why when I posted excerpts from the constitution I provided the policies of the NDP for this election. Because the best way to interpret what democratic socialism is would be to see what policies it leads to.

After looking at those policies I would conclude that the NDP is not looking to nationalize all industries or have a central planeed economy. It does appear however that that the NDP belives that (to put it in right wing terms) If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.

I do not belive that the the snippets for the NDP constitution mean very much, I primarily brought them out because people said the NDP said in their own constitution that they were socialist, while instead it was Democratic Socialist. If you want to understand truly what that is you must look not only at the constitution but at what the party proposes and while they may have some socialist elements and they may have some socialists in the party, I belive that the policies indicate that the party is primarily one that wishes to see Government Control rather than Government Ownership.