Islam Is A Failure

[Hugo]

it also shows, you have no understanding of anything Islamic.

And what understanding do you have? I invite you to debate on the nuances of Islam with me. What is your position?

[KrustyKidd]

So you see a divine purpose in mutilating God's creation? You see a divine purpose in throwing a blanket over God's beauty? You see a divine purpose in keeping the population in fear of devils, temptations, and new ideas because they might sway from the path? What path? The path of living in a tent/mud hut/clay hut/apartment and making decisions based on what they must do according to something written 1600 years ago before oil and electricity rather than what is possible? Leaving the male sexual organ intact so that it can better lust after that which it cannot see?

OK, try it from a cultural aspect, forget God. Over half the population is a slave, that's OK with you? You keep on going on in this board about how others lives matter and here we have a whole society that sees women as nothing but lawn furniture. From birth they are controlled, who they see, who they go out with (if ever) and who they marry. If they give birth to a girl they are to blame. So magnanimous of the guys, you know, the ones that keep them prisoner. Heck, a lot of them never learn to read or write. That's OK with you? To me it spells fear and insecurity.

You must have enough tolerance to smooth over any problem you encounter. I've lived in Syria and Egypt for over a year and a half, there they are moderate and have combined ME culture with Western culture and are great people one on one. Intolerant? For you to call me fool for ridiculing a way of life that has gone way past it's time and dangerously close to being a vehicle for destroying your's and our lives is fatuous.

My customs indeed. Their customs phrohibit any new ideas which would feed the population, supply clean water, promote education to the poor. All must be approved by such open minded individuals such as Emirs and Mullahs You think Bush has aspirations of power and things to hide? Better not look in their closets cause they don't even THINK about public opinion, the next election or how the economy looks in the eyes of the population.

Nova, I mentioned this on another thread, do you own anything that is twentieth century like a shirt or a camera, maybe an automobile accessory or a radio, heck, I'll even go so far as to say a novel other than a religious one that was made in an Arab country? Their culture is backward. OBL and terrorists have heightened and accelerated the need and time required for them to join the world.

In my prievious post I simply demonstrated that the blame for infidelity is placed on the woman there. Cover her and we won't be bastards is what it says, blame is not laid at the source. Self control and education, the other side is State control and non education, Orwellian with sand and camels and as an added cattle prod - Allah's gonna getcha!. I never said to dress up in fishnets and high heels but simply think. Nobody there is capable of self control? You are defending that?

[nova_satori]

Nobody there is capable of self control

No one anywhere is capable of self-control.

Their culture is backward

Is it backward because it doesn't conform to our standards?

I know something I use that comes from there. It's white (yes, refined gas is WHITE, not black) and it's a liquid, and you use it in a car. Well, I lied, most of the oil Hawaii uses comes from Venezula.

[nova_satori]

Who gave us the right to interfere with other cultures?

Who gave us the right to force our beliefs on other cultures?

Who gave us the right to shove our culture down other poeple's throats?

Who gave us the right to say what is right and what is wrong?

Who gave us the right to declare what is morally correct and what is immorally wrong?

You act as if your own culture is the supreme one and all others that do not conform to your standards should be done away.

People think differently. Their culture shapes who they are. Now, if you'd like to admit that for some reason, you think that Americans were granted those rights by God (which is completely laughable), by all means, prove it. Remember, might does not make right.

[KrustyKidd]

Who gave us the right to interfere with other cultures?

Who gave us the right to force our beliefs on other cultures?

Who gave us the right to shove our culture down other poeple's throats?

Who gave us the right to say what is right and what is wrong?

Who gave us the right to declare what is morally correct  and what is immorally wrong?

You act as if your own culture is the supreme one and all others that do not conform to your standards should be done away.

People think differently. Their culture shapes who they are. Now, if you'd like to admit that for some reason, you think that Americans were granted those rights by God (which is completely laughable), by all means, prove it. Remember, might does not make right.

Nova, in all seriousness, if I were an Arab I would feel completely different. However I am not. I am from the Western tribe. We have been attacked. Before I will sit down and talk with a group of people who have declared through action their intention to kill me and mine I will remove the threat from my throat. It's priorities. You for some reason see indifference but it's not. We will have all the time in the world to intermesh cultures and centuries once the terrorists and WMD threats are gone.

  I know something I use that comes from there. It's white (yes, refined gas is WHITE, not black) and it's a liquid, and you use it in a car. Well, I lied, most of the oil Hawaii uses comes from Venezula. 

And here I thought that it was drilled out of the ground by western companies who paid for it with money which enabled the people there to feed and support themselves with. I didn't know that the enterprising Arabs who make nothing but carpets with child labor and pick pistatchios and saffron were spending all their time knitting oil from camel dung. Anyhow, kidding aside, we all know that if there was no oil there then America would have no interest there and they would be starving while they waited for the UN to arrive. Is the problem they don't get enough money for the oil they watch us take? Make a better deal. Is the problem we are not polite enough? Seems we grovel quite nicely when we want something. You have a point but it's bad timing is all.

[nova_satori]

Anyhow, kidding aside, we all know that if there was no oil there then America would have no interest there and they would be starving while they waited for the UN to arrive.

I give you a billion props for actually understanding that.

Endless rounds of applause. (i am serious)

Where the oil is, there goes America.

You people are talking about getting rid of Islam.

1/10,200 of the Muslim population is the problem. Why do you kill the whole to get rid of a bite-size turmor?

You must get it through your heads that not all Muslims are terrorists. You must get it through your head not all Muslims support terrorists. Wahhabism has roughly 100,000 followers, give or take 10,000. The overall population of Islamic Believers is 1.2 BILLION. if the 1.2 billion were after us, I'd be inclind to agree with you. however, only 1/10,200 of the muslim population wants the West dead.

Is the problem they don't get enough money for the oil they watch us take? Make a better deal. Is the problem we are not polite enough? Seems we grovel quite nicely when we want something. You have a point but it's bad timing is all.

Enough money? Doubtful. However, a increase in price per barrel wouldn't be bad. It would prop Russia up. That is the biggest threat out there, even before the Iraq-turned-into-terrorist-haven. Russia silos are guarded by badly paided, freezing, jaded troops. Their generals are paid less then their counterparts everywhere else in russia. What is stopping them from selling a few nukes for roughly $15 million? isn't that going blackmarket rate?

Securing Russian nukes should have been Bush's move. Not making a middle eastern state a terrorist magnet. A organization cannot use something it cannot obtain. We KNOW there are insecure nukes ready for the taking. We did not know if there truely were WMD in Iraq.

Now...it seems logical to secure the weapons that can be airlifted out of a silo and into the hands of a madman within hours then attack a country with inaccurate proof and spend months looking for something in vain and wasting 10000X the amount of money.

The US really needs to stop supporting oil countries like Saudi Arabia. Now if we only had cold fusion, we could stop supporting the middle east. The brits produced fusion on earth. They just vaped a few acres worth of land doing it.

Now it seems logical. Pour money into new, better sources of power then into a dying age of unrenewable resources that ultmimately fund terrorism.

[KrustyKidd]

You people are talking about getting rid of Islam.

I never said to get rid of Islam. Maybe somebody mentioned it as a dream of theirs but as a practicality it is unworthy even of discussion. Yet you bring it up time after time. We all know that the terrorists we fight are a small part of the population. Yet where are they? Everywhere, they are entrenched into Islamic society like a cancer.

The US really needs to stop supporting oil countries like Saudi Arabia. Now if we only had cold fusion, we could stop supporting the middle east. The brits produced fusion on earth. They just vaped a few acres worth of land doing it.

Now it seems logical. Pour money into new, better sources of power then into a dying age of unrenewable resources that ultmimately fund terrorism.   

Let's see Nova, so far we have gone from letting Islam off the hook, sending all our money and resources into Russia to secure Nuclear weapons, turning SA over to possible Fundementalism and now we are to invent cold fussion. If the time frame for this change and worldwide PRACTICAL APPLICATION is anymore than say six months we had better think about being attacked by terrorists. Matter of fact, has it ever occured to you that OBL and his ilk just want to be in charge? You know, only use Anti America as an excuse so they have a job so to speak in which case any aid/new energy source/political solution and time frame is redundant.

On another note, why do you think that America is not trying to understand what is going on? I would hazzard a guess that there are more than five thousand Arab experts trying to understand what is going on in Washington with another ten at least in the field. Billions of $ are being spent in aid and loans to kick start economies everywhere in the Third World. It's your country and you only think you attack enemies? Why is food, clothing and equipment being sent into Afganistan continually? Same in Iraq? You do realize of course that nowhere is it any country's responsibility to rebuild a vanquished foe yet you ignore that in every argument. The poor Muslims you say. "the terrorists are only a small part." Point them out to us, stop them, stop harboring them. Help us and we will help you is the simple message. You see America as bad. You think there is all the time in the world to make this happen. This from an American two years after 9 11. Any change effected would not stop the immediate threat.

Shoot first ask questions later. You have no idea of what a soldier does. Battle proceedure, identifying EFFECTIVE enemy fire, target range and indication and then wait for the fire order. You think actions are taken on the flip of a coin or on a dare? Threat, possible responses are considered at every level. That's why sometimes food is dropped, sometimes leaflets and others bombs. There is more than cowboys in the arsenal but you knew that didn't you?

[Hugo]

Nova,

Since you refuse to even answer me I'm forced to assume that you know nothing about Islam. You are simply buying into the moral relativism that has become so fashionable amongst the so-called intelligentsia. I wonder what you know of the Quran, the life of Mohammed or the differing Muslim sects and debates within them?

Once again, I'm forced to ask you to do some research before you post in ignorance.

[nova_satori]

call me what you want. At least I know the difference between Islam and Wahhabism. Apparently, you don't.

Also, I know they read from different books, written by different people.

[Hugo]

The religion of Islam is founded on a flawed premise and the lies told by Mohammed to the Arab people. If you don't know what I'm talking about, you need to read up on your history and study the origins of Islam more closely.

[Craig Read]

Saudi Wahabbism is a variant of Islam and teaches intolerance and that the heathen, non - believers must be converted or killed.

Tiny Bin Laiden and his group manifest this theory. Not all of Islam is violent but as I stated i have not heard of a Muslim Mullah condemning terror anywhere in the world.

Silence means they are just as culpable.

[KrustyKidd]

That is my contention as well. For a peacefull religion they sure like to hide violent offenders. Bunch of "New York Witnessess." While they proclaim "poor us," USA out of Iraq and all Islam is not to blame there is not much anti OBL chanting going on.

[Craig Read]

KK, how true, in fact in most major EU cities you can see on TV mullahs chanting death to the West. In Paris police are constantly uncovering arm caches in the poor banlieues that surround Paris - many of these buildings are Muslim extremist strongholds. I read one article in a French magazine that said most of these places are prepared for a small war. And of course you have the Arab zealots that burn the flags of their adopted countries.

In Canada Concordia students can celebrate 9-11, defame the Flag, scream anti-Semitic insults and nothing happens.

Welcome to post modern idiocy. Please come to our country, tell us we are stupid, ignorant, beastly and evil. And then celebrate when your esteemed brethren kill innocents.

Rather sick isn't it ?

[KrustyKidd]

Welcome to post modern idiocy. Please come to our country, tell us we are stupid, ignorant, beastly and evil. And then celebrate when your esteemed brethren kill innocents.

And be sure to vote Liberal.

[Craig Read]

Yes i forgot to add that. And don't forget to hate the Americans, rewrite history and demand that all services be conducted in your native language, don't learn english [we understand that your own language is superior], don't learn our history or cultural mores [we don't have any], and be sure to use the social services at your convenience and by all means send money back home to support the terrorist group of your choice.

[Nuclear]

The ultimate Lib plan: Let the UN make decisions for our government....The French will have a say in what our government does....

I see our society dying as we speak....

[Craig Read]

Yes push upwards all decisions regarding our lives.

-Environment ? Yes Yes global cooling [1975] er global warming [1997] or global something is here and will kill us all ! So let's tax and regulate. That solves everything !

-Military ? No need for one the US bastards will protect us as long as the UN security council composed of anti-liberal France, anti-liberal Russia, anti-China and pro-liberal UK say yes !

-Health ? As long as the WHO or WHAT are happy we are good boys and girls !

-Human Rights ? Well now the UN has stated we abuse Indians and are bad. hmm what do do ? How about give them more money, mineral rights and land rights !!

Yes farcical.

You wonder why we even need Federal politicians here.

[Nuclear]

I think the Us should drop out of the UN and sink UN headquarters into the Hudson River....get out! Anyone agree? And where did this Kofi guy from? I didn't vote for him....

[Derek]

The UN in my opinion, just takes up valuble space in NYC, they need to demolish it and tell the pathetic leeches to get their own fucking building. (they would probably be too lazy to build another)

The UN would fall apart, then i would laugh and laugh and laugh.......hahhahhahahah......hahaha.

[nova_satori]

the UN is the best humanitrain organization in the world. Without it, you are condenming millions to death via starvation.

However, it is useless for everything else.

[KrustyKidd]

I agree. The UN is a big money burning machine. Seems in order to make anything work you need competition. We need another UN that is privately owned and publicly funded.

[Craig Read]

The UN has only 2 or 3 meaningful roles; refugee relief, child relief and some humanitarian relief.

In fact the UN has now over 50.000 people, sprawled around the world, busy with economic, social and political issues.

It's budget is U$10 billion per year on average.

This was NOT the original purpose when Churchill and Roosevelt designed the functionality of the UNO which they basically wanted to help in forming democratic and liberal principles for free nations.

That goal has been utterly tossed aside.

The UN has become a haven for bureaucrats, socialists, do-gooders and those who just love to spend other people's money.

Any audit [most are not even objective] points to a huge waste in spend at the UN in all departments.

Time to cut it down to size.

[Nuclear]

The UN in my opinion, just takes up valuble space in NYC, they need to demolish it and tell the pathetic leeches to get their own fucking building. (they would probably be too lazy to build another)

The UN would fall apart, then i would laugh and laugh and laugh.......hahhahhahahah......hahaha.

Very true, Derek.

As for the UN being a humanitarian organization...The UN only gets things done when they enlist the US, England, and Canada's military to do it! Somalia? Bosnia? Yeah, the three countries who usually do anything are usually doing EVERYTHING. If the US dropped out of the UN(which I'd love to see) they would get very little done because they'd have no muscle.

I do, sadly, forsee one day that a Hilary Clinton or some other radical moron will get into office as President and in the name of 'peace' hand over all our military to the UN....and eventually the UN will use it against us....although it's a religiously based series, the Left Behind series explains a lot of it, but unless you're a Christian it won't make any sense to you.

I see people who join the UN military(ya know their two tanks and twenty troops, the NYC girl scouts could kick the crap out of them) and serve the UN. It bothers me somehow. It feels like they are betraying their homeland to listen to someone else. If I joined the US military, I'm at least following the orders of someone my country elected into office. The reason I don't join the US military is sometimes our President is dumb enough to listen to the UN and do whatever they say. *cough*Clinton*cough*

How would risking my life in Bosnia or Somalia have helped my country? Dying for my country? I'll be the first volunteer. For some other backwards country that has been fighting since Biblical times....heck with them!

[Cameron]

Fight the POWER!

The UN does need some internal re-workings. Big time...

Isn't there countires that are in the UN that don't abide by all the rules of the UN (human rights, etc..)

[Craig Read]

Somalia was another Clinton debacle.

UN command - Good one Bill as if the UN can fight wars.

No tanks or heavy armour - Good one Bill gee this would send the 'wrong message' ie. we want to kick your ass and win the battle. Nice.

No Air cover. Good one Bill, let the ground troops have no cover.

No Intelligence or Special Ops. Good one Bill, fighting blind is smart.

Send in only helicopters and make sure you only have 1.000 troops to fight 30.000. Good one Bill, I like those odds.

Make sure the UN countries such as France and Italy cut side deals with the local warlords so that their boys don't get killed. Good one Bill, love those European morals.

Make sure other UN nations dally, and dilly and don't lend you their tanks or heavy armour until it is too late. Good one Bill, got to love multi-lateralism.

Clinton was a disaster. Slowly the public will learn, in spite of what the Clinton News Network ie. CNN states, what a farce he was.