Islam Is A Failure

Nuclear · September 20, 2003

America's Two Bigest Mistakes:

1)Electing Slick Willy Clinton

2)Reelecting Slick Willy Clinton

Potential Third Mistake that will doom this country:

3)Electing Hilary.

:-\ If she becomes President in 2008, I'm never having children because I refuse to bring children into a world that is going to cave in on itself!

Craig Read · September 21, 2003

Hitlery Criminaltown is the most loathsome political actor in America.

She is the apogee of Dumbocrud immorality.

She wants to control, nationalise, socialise everything including what is in your pants, and transfer money hither and yon. She is contemptible.

Bill Clinton is the 2nd worst President in US History after that Democratic and insufferable moron Jimmy Carter.

Christ i wish that Carter would shut up and go live in an old age home.

Derek · September 22, 2003

I think Jimmy would go build his own Ol' age home.

Ha.

Mr. Chater · September 22, 2003

Hitlery Criminaltown is the most loathsome political actor in America.
She is the apogee of Dumbocrud immorality.

She wants to control, nationalise, socialise everything including what is in your pants, and transfer money hither and yon. She is contemptible.

Bill Clinton is the 2nd worst President in US History after that Democratic and insufferable moron Jimmy Carter.

Christ i wish that Carter would shut up and go live in an old age home.

thats deep but well said

Craig Read · September 23, 2003

Well you know the Liberals, once they start they never cease - this is the slippery slope argument that can be used with some justification.

Programs only grow, taxes only rise, and spending only accumulates with each passing political regime.

This is the agenda of enforced socialism and mirrors the misery of many parts of the world - it leads to corruption, fraud, and wasted resources.

We need to get back to some basics.

nova_satori · September 23, 2003

Programs only grow, taxes only rise, and spending only accumulates with each passing political regime.

So there's no problem with Bush's cut taxes then asking for $87 billion? Cut revenue at the same time as raking up a $400 billion debt is a good thing? This debt will be carried on the backs of our grandchildren. And their grandchildren. You do remember that Clinton had the largest surplus in US history. Bush may have the largest debt in history.

You disagree that all social programs should be expanded?

Politics 101:

Lesson 1: Don't spend more money then you have

Lesson 2: Save for inveitable disasters

The class every politian fails.

Craig Read · September 23, 2003

$87 billion is cheap. It is 1/2 of the Marshall Plan costs. You would argue that a democratised, non Communist europe is a waste of time. You will argue the same nonsense in 20 years, when Iraq's GDP per capita is about 5 x greater than it is now, and the Iraqi's are enjoying freedom.

You are incomprehensible. Maybe read some facts and stop listening to CBC drivel.

Try Bernard Lewis, the Sage of Middle Eastern affairs. BL had this to say in an interview:

"And he spoke not just of the present -- of bin Laden, of al Qaeda -- but of the Muslim past. He was the first to explain 9/11, and the conflict between the West and the Islamic world, in terms of a historically discernible (and, since the fall of the Moors in Spain, continual) Muslim decline. This wasn't solely explicable in terms of contemporary "humiliations" -- such as the perceived injustices in Palestine, the sanctions against Iraq, the income disparities between the Christian world and the Muslim, and so forth. Blame for these differences in civilization lay with the Muslim world, and its failure to modernize.

"If they can abandon grievance and victimhood," he wrote in "What Went Wrong? The Clash Between Islam and Modernity in the Middle East" -- a zestful, short book published after 9/11, and required reading for everyone but the most willfully ignorant -- ". . . they can once again make the Middle East, in modern times as it was in antiquity and in the Middle Ages, a major center of civilization. For the time being, the choice is their own." Note the words, unsentimental, unyielding, yet redemptive. There's hope. They can fix their state(s) if they want to. The choice is their own. (The book was in galleys on 9/11: it wasn't a response to 9/11, but a work of prescience.)

Of all the scholars of Islam, Mr. Lewis is the one whom Muslims would do best to heed. So I asked him recently if "What Went Wrong?" had been translated into Arabic. Not yet, apparently, though there's a version on the way.

Get that ? The Arabs have never translated outside works on their 'culture' or society.

They could care less. It is Allah above all. Convert or kill.

Such a fascist mentality deserves not only to fail, but die.

Cameron · September 23, 2003

I don't know if you read National Geographic. But the latest issue has a good article about Saudi Arabia and the split between the traditional way of Islam and modernization. It is very informative, not so in a primary political sense but a general way, more of teaching you about the country as a whole vs. focussing on the political out-fall of 9-11.

http://magma.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/03...ure1/index.html

You have to buy the magazine for the full article.

Craig Read · September 23, 2003

The House of Saud must go.

7000 'Princes' run the country as their personal ATM machine.

Here is a country sitting on an easily accessible and processable resource that needs Western technology to develop, distribute and sell said resource.

Astounding.

The oligarchic family are kleptocrats. Women get stoned for revealing their face in public. Half the population is illiterate. A competitive economy is non existent, and extreme Islamic support flourishes.

Other than that, this US created fantasy land is a great country.

Mr Farrius · September 24, 2003

If you have read the news and help section, I believe there was a discussion about citing sources and providing information to back up your assertions instead of making sweeping generalizations and expect everyone else to know what you're talking about. Please do so in the future.

Craig Read · September 24, 2003

Sources for what ? The fact that 7000 Princes rule the country or the fact that they are supine while the West provides ALL the technology for oil refinement and distribution. Well guess what Ace - go the book store and pull out any number of books on S.Arabia - and it will confirm that. As well the WSJ, the National Post, and various think tanks confirm the number.

The list of books would number in the dozens. I suggest you build a library and stop watching the CBC.

Mr Farrius · September 24, 2003

What I'm trying to say is, since not everyone on this forum is as well-informed and inteligent as you are, please provide information such as websites, where people can share your information.

Craig Read · September 27, 2003

You are funny. Your backhanded compliment hit the mark. I make no claims to what you referenced. The sources on the Saudi's and their princedoms - apparently they produce more every month a few dozen more.

Sources include:

National Post March 4 2002. "Saudi Arabia has 7.000 princes - at the time of writing; it maybe up to 7.600..."

The Spectator, August 10 2002 -- in referencing said princes, "There are no good guys in Saudi Arabia - the choice is between those who are openly pro-al-Qaeda and those who are quietly buying them off .."

SA has got to go. :angry:

theloniusfleabag · September 27, 2003

Dear Mr. Read,

You and Osama Bin Laden seem to share a goal. The elimination of the House of Saud.

The House of Saud must go.
7000 'Princes' run the country as their personal ATM machine.

Here is a country sitting on an easily accessible and processable resource that needs Western technology to develop, distribute and sell said resource.

What do you think they've been doing? Sitting on the oil? This last sentence looks like it was written in about 1950.

It irks Osama that the House of Saud exploits the 'Land of the Two Holy Places' for it's own, and Western (read: Infidel) profit. I'm not sure why it irks you. Jealousy, perhaps?

Pellaken · September 27, 2003

what is the goal of islam?

to live as god wants

since islam is the right religion, and that is what god wants, then islam is not a failure.

Craig Read · September 27, 2003

Pell, your genius continues to shine. Islam or any other societal organising concept must deliver the goods. I suggest you re-read the thread to understand why it has failed - its people are brainwashed, illiterate, stoned to death, ignorant, mal-educated, abused, poor, without hope and used as pawns by those who rape their countries for personal gain.

Other than that it is a great organising philosophy. Oh yeah, can't wait to go to heaven and see the 72 virgins i have been promised. Now that sounds realistic and should help me live through the grinding squalor of everyday Arab life.

Hugo · September 27, 2003

Pell, you need to learn more about Islam. The sad fact is that Mohammed was a liar and a warmonger who twisted the words of the religion and the God he claimed to be a prophet of in order to satisfy personal ambition and settle personal scores.

There are Islamic theologians who are attempting to cast off this legacy, to recognise the lies within Islam and to reform and return to the original, pre-Mohammedan vision of God, but so far they are voices in the wilderness. The Islamic clerics most heard are the true descendants of Mohammed: warmongers, abusers of power and violators of their own religious mores.

KrustyKidd · September 28, 2003

This is hilarious. And Muslims wonder why we don't understand them and treat them with more "sensitivity." LOL

http://www.homestead.com/prosites-prs/unveiled.html

nova_satori · September 28, 2003

Hugo: WTF. How can there be a pre-Mohammed Islam? Unless there's another prophet that the West hasn't heard of.

Hugo · September 28, 2003

Islam recognises all "prophets" from Moses to Jesus, the Old Testament and the New as well as the Quran. Mohammed did not invent Islam, he just tapped into it. Go read up on Islamic history, please, this is all basic stuff.

Craig Read · September 30, 2003

That is true, Islam believes that it is the inheritor of previoius prophets and ideals. It is therefore superior or more advanced than the Hebrew or Christian church. Jesus was recognised as a prophet but not quite the equal of Mohammad. This is very basic knowledge that people who discuss Islam should have before getting into a discourse.

Mr Farrius · October 1, 2003

I suggest you re-read the thread to understand why it has failed - its people are brainwashed, illiterate, stoned to death, ignorant, mal-educated, abused, poor, without hope and used as pawns by those who rape their countries for personal gain.

Oh, so Mr Read has come up with a standard in determining what shows that a religion has failed. Whatever happened to the corrupt governments who abuse this religion and cause all those things? So, if those factors show that Islam has failed, what if the majority of Islam moved to the United States? Guess it's not a failure anymore. Bush makes sure none of that happens right? Fact is, a religion can never be a failure. Governments can.

Craig Read · October 2, 2003

Well Islam is the merger of gov't and religion is it not ? The religion teaches people intolerance towards the Jew does it not ? At least that is how the Mullahs are practicing and preaching their version of Islam. Terror in the name of Islam is a daily event. If Islam is a success where exactly has it succeeded ? Its governance tells people to eschew the modern world. It facilitates and breeds its own inner demise. Let's provide some evidence of its relevancy and success if you truly believe that it is not a failure.

It quite obviously has failed its constituents. This is why 55 % of young Arabs want to leave according to recent reports.

When most of the population is illiterate and half starved i find it difficult to state as the Liberal media does that Islam is peaceful, coherent and cultured. Even in moderate countries the religion is abusive to the population and negates modernity.

Provide me concrete evidence not emotional PC arguments on its successes.

A philosophy which avows an intention in keeping someone ignorant poor and spiteful does not constitute either a noble religious ideal or good governance.

Understanding this places the war on terror in perspective. It would be as if someone said to me 'you know the Nazi pagan philosophy of life has its merits...or you know communist godlessness is really a moral philosophy elevating the community above god...."

There is a grand difference between religious modernity and religious backwardness. This is the issue.

Pellaken · October 2, 2003

you read this thread and wonder why the musims are not friendly towards the west.

Craig Read · October 2, 2003

Well Islam is the merger of gov't and religion is it not ? The religion teaches people intolerance towards the Jew does it not ? At least that is how the Mullahs are practicing and preaching their version of Islam. Terror in the name of Islam is a daily event. If Islam is a success where exactly has it succeeded ? Its governance tells people to eschew the modern world. It facilitates and breeds its own inner demise. Let's provide some evidence of its relevancy and success if you truly believe that it is not a failure.

It quite obviously has failed its constituents. This is why 55 % of young Arabs want to leave according to recent reports.

When most of the population is illiterate and half starved i find it difficult to state as the Liberal media does that Islam is peaceful, coherent and cultured. Even in moderate countries the religion is abusive to the population and negates modernity.

Provide me concrete evidence not emotional PC arguments on its successes.

A philosophy which avows an intention in keeping someone ignorant poor and spiteful does not constitute either a noble religious ideal or good governance.

Understanding this places the war on terror in perspective. It would be as if someone said to me 'you know the Nazi pagan philosophy of life has its merits...or you know communist godlessness is really a moral philosophy elevating the community above god...."

There is a grand difference between religious modernity and religious backwardness. This is the issue.