Holy War, Batman!

[theloniusfleabag]

One of the radical groups operating on the Temple Mount is Hizab Altahrir (The Islamic Liberation Party), which espouses an ideology similar to Al Qaeda. Hizab Altahrir’s network spans most Western European countries. The party puts Islamic revolution and an uncompromising form of Jihad (holy war) at the top of its political agenda.

The group advocates subjecting the entire world to Islamic law (Shariya), and destroying non-believing nations and religions.

from...

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=92906

Not that I believe the Israelis to be impartial, but, it raises a few interesting questions. Does the rhetoric of a small faction warrant global condemnation and 'eradication'? Would snuffing out this entire group of radicals foment a war against Islam? Is this seen as something coming near the end or at the beginning?

How different is this than the US advocating the use of military might to change the world to 'it's way'?(apart from the obvious differences of theology. I mean to question the methods, not motives)

[Montgomery Burns]

I don't believe that Holy War has ever been at the top of the USA's political agenda.

[sharkman]

In recent history (50 yrs) the U.S. would attack to stop communists from taking over. IMO communism had more in common with this violent wing of Islam than America. Wait and see what China does. After 9/11 it became a priority to take out those who the U.S. thought were responsible for the attack.

Many different presidents have been involved in the last 50 years with not all of them being christian, so the religious holy war thing doesn't fit. The bible doesn't advocate holy war, the Koran does. The methods that you want to put under the microscope, so to speak, seem dissimilar too. Americans aren't trying to bring down a government by taking out as many civilians as they can, or strapping explosives to themselves and getting into a crowd of muslims.

But at the end of the day, is it any different? To me, the end result that the U.S. wants to achieve shows that they are not the same.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear sharkman,

But at the end of the day, is it any different? To me, the end result that the U.S. wants to achieve shows that they are not the same.

My point wasn't really about the US (or the West)'s religion, but rather Bush's statement that 'you are either with us or against us' and are they bent on converting the entire world to 'their way'. Keep in mind that the 'powers that be' in the US have been virtually the same people for about 30 years.

[sharkman]

When Bush was saying your either with us or against us it wasn't a broad 'decree' to the rest of the world about everything, but about terrorism. Personally, I don't think it's the bottom line in U.S. policy anymore otherwise they'd attack Iran and Syria, to name a few. Further, it wasn't a threat, just a black and white analysis of others' responses. For instance, Germany strongly disagreed with the U.S. over Iraq, but the U.S. didn't then respond with an attack on Germany.

Are they bent on converting the rest of the world to their 'way'? It seems to me that as far as capitalism and democracy based governing goes, much of the world is operating the same way already. All of Europe, lots of Asia, most of the Americas, everywhere you look. They didn't take over the world, but evolved a new way of existing as a country. And giving people freedom gives them hope and motivation to chase their dreams. So many other countries copied this system.

There are countries, such as China, who remain haters of democracy, thinking that people shouldn't be given freedom, but the U.S. is not figuring out how to 'take them over', but are trading with them. Personally I think that enriching the country that hates you and would like to see you fall as a power (as I believe China does the U.S.) is kind of short sighted, but that's me.

[daeha]

One of the radical groups operating on the Temple Mount is Hizab Altahrir (The Islamic Liberation Party), which espouses an ideology similar to Al Qaeda. Hizab Altahrir’s network spans most Western European countries. The party puts Islamic revolution and an uncompromising form of Jihad (holy war) at the top of its political agenda.

The group advocates subjecting the entire world to Islamic law (Shariya), and destroying non-believing nations and religions.

from...

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=92906

Not that I believe the Israelis to be impartial, but, it raises a few interesting questions. Does the rhetoric of a small faction warrant global condemnation and 'eradication'? Would snuffing out this entire group of radicals foment a war against Islam? Is this seen as something coming near the end or at the beginning?

How different is this than the US advocating the use of military might to change the world to 'it's way'?(apart from the obvious differences of theology. I mean to question the methods, not motives)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[daeha]

any none muslim who is not a little worried by people who welcome death [and look at all those women they get] is a liar, people blame political decisions for the rise in extremist but to be honest this seems to me to be bordering on cowardice,its like being in a cage with poisonous spider afraid of moving and occasionally babbling on about spiders being beautiful,people are scared so they want thier enemies close,of course to get them close they trash thier own governments and soldiers,write articles about welcoming religeous diversity,what a load of rubbish,i live in liverpool and when we invaded iraq all the shopkeepers [and thier are many!]donned thier national dress?,what that meant i do not know but it showed me that although in the minority they were crazy enough to try to antagonise liverpools youth!and that is scary!i believe when the time is right and the numbers are sufficient even the moderate muslim will take up whatever arms they can and create the ugliest war you will ever see,its a bit like communism and every muslim will do whatever he or she is told to do without question,you see they are more afraid of thier own people than any decent westerners and who wouldnt be? peter bradshaw,dingle,liverpool

[szkw1]

i believe when the time is right and the numbers are sufficient even the moderate muslim will take up whatever arms they can and create the ugliest war you will ever see,its a bit like communism and every muslim will do whatever he or she is told to do without question,you see they are more afraid of thier own people than any decent westerners and who wouldnt be? peter bradshaw,dingle,liverpool

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You obviously don't know many Muslims. Every religion has their zealots and they are the scary ones. I, as a Christian, cringe when I hear some of the Christian zealots speak about their ideals. There is no way that I would follow them as there is no way that moderate Muslims will follow the zealots. BTW there are many sects of Islam as there are in Christianity.

Please stop painting all adherants of Islam with the same brush.

[Argus]

i believe when the time is right and the numbers are sufficient even the moderate muslim will take up whatever arms they can and create the ugliest war you will ever see,its a bit like communism and every muslim will do whatever he or she is told to do without question,you see they are more afraid of thier own people than any decent westerners and who wouldnt be? peter bradshaw,dingle,liverpool

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You obviously don't know many Muslims. Every religion has their zealots and they are the scary ones. I, as a Christian, cringe when I hear some of the Christian zealots speak about their ideals. There is no way that I would follow them as there is no way that moderate Muslims will follow the zealots. BTW there are many sects of Islam as there are in Christianity.

Please stop painting all adherants of Islam with the same brush.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That would be more reassuring if we didn't hear about mobs of thousands or even tens of thousands of Muslims going wacko over rumours that someone dropped a Koran into the toilet or said unkind things about Allah, or made a movie which was insulting to Muslims.

Now if ten thousand Christians decide to tear up Baltimore because someone published a book which said Jesus liked meat on Friday you can get back to me.

[szkw1]

Now if ten thousand Christians decide to tear up Baltimore because someone published a book which said Jesus liked meat on Friday you can get back to me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The question of Jesus eating meat on Friday is a red herring. There are not too many Christian sects that even worry about it The "riots" because of the Koran dropping, were only reported in a few countries. Other countries had a much different perspective as to why the "riots" occurred. I listen to and read news from all over the world and it is amazing how much the perspective changes from country to country.

People who make rash generalisations about other groups of people are dangerous. They often base their arguments on half truths and misconceptions. History has proven that time and time again.