Was Adam supposed to sin in God's great plan?

French Patriot · September 3, 2021

Thanks.

Regards
DL

Logger guy · September 8, 2021

Of course Adam was not supposed to sin. God planted his garden, because he wanted to bring forth life. An enemy planted tares. This enemy was one of His helpers, who was not happy being a helper, but wanted to be like God. His disobedience was the first sin, and he tempted Eve with the promise that she would become like God as well. God provided man with everything that he needed, living in paradise with God, and was given a choice, gratitude and obedience, or jealousy and self serving. His poor choice necessitated the temporary separation from God, which ended with physical death. After that comes judgement and inclusion or exclusion from His kingdom. Basically those who work and play well with others are welcomed into Gods kingdom, those who care only for themselves are not.

French Patriot · September 10, 2021

On 9/8/2021 at 3:16 PM, Logger guy said:

An enemy planted tares.

Why would an all powerful everywhere present god allow his plan to be derailed?

Have you forgotten that he had already sentenced Jesus to death?

A funny kind of death, but the death of her, if you are a literalist, for sure.

Would you deny her the title of saviour?

Tell me please.

Do you see Yahweh's plan as on track or derailed?

Regards

DL

Edited September 10, 2021 by French Patriot

French Patriot · September 10, 2021

On 9/8/2021 at 3:16 PM, Logger guy said:

This enemy was one of His helpers,

What does an all powerful god need help with?

Who can express his thoughts better.

Regards

DL

Logger guy · September 11, 2021

On 9/9/2021 at 7:37 PM, French Patriot said:

Why would an all powerful everywhere present god allow his plan to be derailed?

He expected better from his children.

On 9/9/2021 at 7:37 PM, French Patriot said:

Have you forgotten that he had already sentenced Jesus to death?

There was no death before man sinned against God. Jesus was sentenced to death by Pontius Pilate at the urging of the Jewish priesthood.

On 9/9/2021 at 7:37 PM, French Patriot said:

A funny kind of death, but the death of her, if you are a literalist, for sure.

Would you deny her the title of saviour?

I would not deny her anything, but the savior had to be unblemished and without sin. Eve was not.

On 9/9/2021 at 7:37 PM, French Patriot said:

Do you see Yahweh's plan as on track or derailed?

I would say that it is back on track.

On 9/9/2021 at 7:48 PM, French Patriot said:

What does an all powerful god need help with?

Not for me to say. I don't tell God how to be God.

French Patriot · September 11, 2021

19 minutes ago, Logger guy said:

On 9/9/2021 at 10:37 PM, French Patriot said:

Have you forgotten that he had already sentenced Jesus to death?

There was no death before man sinned against God.

That is not relevant to what I put and that you show ignorance of.

I was referring to this.

1Peter 1:20 0 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

You blame Pilot, but Yahweh had already chosen him as well. So much for free will.

If you cannot do decent and better apologetics best to ignore me.

Regards

DL

French Patriot · September 11, 2021

23 minutes ago, Logger guy said:

I would not deny her anything, but the savior had to be unblemished and without sin. Eve was not.

We were talking Satan. The one with the jugs.

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Read slower.

Regards

DL

Logger guy · September 13, 2021

On 9/11/2021 at 11:14 AM, French Patriot said:

1Peter 1:20 0 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

Of course He was chosen before the creation of the world, He was the creator of the world. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. Jesus was with man from the beginning.

In john chapter 10:11-13 Jesus tells us that he is our protector “I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. The hired hand is not the shepherd and does not own the sheep. So when he sees the wolf coming, he abandons the sheep and runs away. Then the wolf attacks the flock and scatters it. The man runs away because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep. Jesus gave his life of his own free will to save his flock. Matthew 20:28 tells us "just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”

Jesus chose to give his life as a ransom to save all those who followed his urging to care for others, to feed the hungry, and help those in need. That was his choice.

French Patriot · September 14, 2021

13 hours ago, Logger guy said:

Of course He was chosen before the creation of the world, He was the creator of the world. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. Jesus was with man from the beginning.

In john chapter 10:11-13 Jesus tells us that he is our protector “I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. The hired hand is not the shepherd and does not own the sheep. So when he sees the wolf coming, he abandons the sheep and runs away. Then the wolf attacks the flock and scatters it. The man runs away because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep. Jesus gave his life of his own free will to save his flock. Matthew 20:28 tells us "just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”

Jesus chose to give his life as a ransom to save all those who followed his urging to care for others, to feed the hungry, and help those in need. That was his choice.

Your morals are garbage.

Do you have the balls to discuss them?

On Jesus dying for Christians. Try to think in a moral way.

It takes quite an inflated ego to think a god would actually die for us, after condemning us unjustly in the first place.

Christians have swallowed a lie and don’t care how evil they make Jesus to keep their feel good get out of hell free card.

It is a lie, first and foremost, because, like it or not, having another innocent person suffer or die for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral.

To abdicate your personal responsibility for your actions or use a scapegoat is immoral.

Christians also have to ignore what Jesus, as a Jewish Rabbi, would have taught his people.

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Psa 49;7 None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:

There is no way that Christians would teach their children to use a scapegoat to escape their just punishments and here you are promoting doing just that.

Jesus is just a smidge less immoral than his demiurge genocidal father, and here you are trying to put him as low in moral fiber as Yahweh. Tsk tsk.

Regards
DL

Logger guy · September 15, 2021

On 9/14/2021 at 4:35 AM, French Patriot said:

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

The wages of sin are death, and all have sinned, so all have been sentenced to death. It is often true though that one sentenced to death can appeal to the head of state, a governor, president or king for a pardon. In God's kingdom this would be God. Jesus gave his life to gain the privilege of becoming the advocate for those who follow His way. He has been granted a pardon for all who obey His commands. 1 john 2:1-6

My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands. Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person. But if anyone obeys his word, love for God is truly made complete in them. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did.