French Patriot Posted May 24, 2021 Report Posted May 24, 2021 Is accepting Jesus as messiah a sin? It seems to me, that to accept Jesus as our messiah or scapegoat, means abdication our responsibility for our sins and placing it on the messiah or scapegoat. I think that to use a scapegoat is a sin. If you are religious, is this the sin that you think you did to deserve hell? If not, what is it that causes you to sin to be saved? Regards DL Quote
Yzermandius19 Posted May 26, 2021 Report Posted May 26, 2021 (edited) On 5/24/2021 at 4:14 PM, French Patriot said: Is accepting Jesus as messiah a sin? It seems to me, that to accept Jesus as our messiah or scapegoat, means abdication our responsibility for our sins and placing it on the messiah or scapegoat. I think that to use a scapegoat is a sin. If you are religious, is this the sin that you think you did to deserve hell? If not, what is it that causes you to sin to be saved? Regards DL accepting Jesus is not a sin and doing so doesn't result in damnation doing so is not an abdication of responsibility for your sin atonement results in being saved, that is the taking responsibility for your sins part Edited May 26, 2021 by Yzermandius19 Quote
French Patriot Posted May 26, 2021 Author Report Posted May 26, 2021 (edited) 14 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said: accepting Jesus is not a sin and doing so doesn't result in damnation doing so is not an abdication of responsibility for your sin atonement results in being saved, that is the taking responsibility for your sins part I agree that accepting Jesus is not a sin, unless you also accept he died for you. Abdicating your responsibility for sins is the sin. If atonement is what is salvific, as you say and not Jesus, Jesus did not have to die at all, and the whole sacrifice thing is a lie. Am I reading you correctly? Regards DL Edited May 26, 2021 by French Patriot Quote
Yzermandius19 Posted May 27, 2021 Report Posted May 27, 2021 (edited) 10 hours ago, French Patriot said: I agree that accepting Jesus is not a sin, unless you also accept he died for you. Abdicating your responsibility for sins is the sin. If atonement is what is salvific, as you say and not Jesus, Jesus did not have to die at all, and the whole sacrifice thing is a lie. Am I reading you correctly? Regards DL Jesus sacrifice is atonement he is atonement guy he forgave those who killed him still leaving open their chance to atone for that sin hate the sin not the sinner yet he who is without sin cast the first stone and all that Jesus inspires others to seek a path to redemption, especially in the face of death not just seek it when times are good and abandoning core values in dire circumstances resisting the temptation to become like your enemy in a fight against them none of this has anything to do with abdicating responsibility for sin that doesn't follow Edited May 27, 2021 by Yzermandius19 Quote
French Patriot Posted May 27, 2021 Author Report Posted May 27, 2021 10 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said: none of this has anything to do with abdicating responsibility for sin Correct, which you are ignoring, because it is a sin. Now post something on that to show you know what the word means. Regards DL Quote
Yzermandius19 Posted May 27, 2021 Report Posted May 27, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, French Patriot said: Correct, which you are ignoring, because it is a sin. Now post something on that to show you know what the word means. Regards DL accepting Jesus isn't abdicating responsibility and it is not a sin Jesus was about taking ownership of the fact that everyone sins and atoning for it yourself and allowing others the chance to atone for it His sacrifice was to inspire others to sacrifice as well it's not about being a scapegoat that lets people off the hook for all of their sins, Jesus did not do that it's about trying to live up to the ideal and not being doomed to hell if you slip up, as long as you take responsibility, strive to do better and take the necessary actions to do so it's all about taking responsibility for your actions, not passing on the responsibility to a scapegoat, so you are free of any personal responsibility for your behavior Edited May 27, 2021 by Yzermandius19 Quote
French Patriot Posted May 27, 2021 Author Report Posted May 27, 2021 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: accepting Jesus isn't abdicating responsibility and it is not a sin Jesus was about taking ownership of the fact that everyone sins and atoning for it yourself and allowing others the chance to atone for it His sacrifice was to inspire others to sacrifice as well it's not about being a scapegoat that lets people off the hook for all of their sins, Jesus did not do that it's about trying to live up to the ideal and not being doomed to hell if you slip up, as long as you take responsibility, strive to do better and take the necessary actions to do so it's all about taking responsibility for your actions, not passing on the responsibility to a scapegoat, so you are free of any personal responsibility for your behavior Basically correct, so why are you in line to accept Jesus' sacrifice by sinning by abdicating your responsibility for your sin? Who is to pay for your sins? You or Jesus? Let's see what Jesus taught. Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin. If I go by those, to abdicate my responsibility is going against what Jesus taught. Are you still eager to drink his blood and eat his flesh? Regards DL Edited May 27, 2021 by French Patriot Quote
Yzermandius19 Posted May 27, 2021 Report Posted May 27, 2021 18 minutes ago, French Patriot said: to abdicate my responsibility is going against what Jesus taught indeed therefore accepting Jesus is not abdicating that responsibility, just the opposite Quote
French Patriot Posted May 27, 2021 Author Report Posted May 27, 2021 21 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: indeed therefore accepting Jesus is not abdicating that responsibility, just the opposite So you think that not keeping your responsibilities for your sins, and laying them on Jesus, is not abdicating your responsibilities. How completely hypocritical. I gave you what Jesus taught, and you ignored it. Typical Christian. Regards DL So you do not need Jesus for salvation., Quote
DogOnPorch Posted May 27, 2021 Report Posted May 27, 2021 All this Jesus talk is making the Gods up on Olympus rather pissed-off. Do y'all EVER want to get back to Ithaca? 1 Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
French Patriot Posted May 27, 2021 Author Report Posted May 27, 2021 9 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said: All this Jesus talk is making the Gods up on Olympus rather pissed-off. Do y'all EVER want to get back to Ithaca? All the good gods are pissed that the mainstream religions have selected a genocidal prick as a good god when he is obviously evil. Regards DL Quote
Yzermandius19 Posted May 27, 2021 Report Posted May 27, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, French Patriot said: So you think that not keeping your responsibilities for your sins, and laying them on Jesus, is not abdicating your responsibilities. How completely hypocritical. I gave you what Jesus taught, and you ignored it. Typical Christian. Regards DL So you do not need Jesus for salvation., you are not listening you are the one ignoring accepting Jesus is taking responsibility not abdicating it stop with the obtuse bullshit Edited May 27, 2021 by Yzermandius19 Quote
French Patriot Posted May 27, 2021 Author Report Posted May 27, 2021 1 hour ago, Yzermandius19 said: you are not listening you are the one ignoring accepting Jesus is taking responsibility not abdicating it stop with the obtuse bullshit Go try your lies elsewhere. You lack the I Q for this issue. Real adult people take responsibility for their actions and do not expect some savior whipping boy to take their strokes. Try calling this Bishop obtuse, after looking up the definition of abdication. Bishop John Shelby Spong: Why Atonement Theology will Kill Christianity - YouTube Regards DL Quote
French Patriot Posted May 27, 2021 Author Report Posted May 27, 2021 1 hour ago, Yzermandius19 said: you are not listening Try reading what your bible says and what you refuse to do. 6 hours ago, French Patriot said: Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin. Quote
Yzermandius19 Posted May 27, 2021 Report Posted May 27, 2021 1 hour ago, French Patriot said: Real adult people take responsibility for their actions and do not expect some savior whipping boy to take their strokes. same with Christians you clearly don't understand Christianity at all and simply want to demonize it with your idiotic strawman no matter how many times you are corrected on it Quote
Yzermandius19 Posted May 27, 2021 Report Posted May 27, 2021 1 hour ago, French Patriot said: Try reading what your bible says and what you refuse to do. you try reading it it literally supports what I have been saying and points out how your silly interpretation is wrong Quote
French Patriot Posted May 28, 2021 Author Report Posted May 28, 2021 Thanks for the garbage. Regards DL Quote
Yzermandius19 Posted May 28, 2021 Report Posted May 28, 2021 1 hour ago, French Patriot said: Thanks for the garbage projection is a helluva drug everything you accuse people of is what you are actually guilty of and has nothing to do with what others are saying Quote
French Patriot Posted May 28, 2021 Author Report Posted May 28, 2021 Correct. We are not on the same page. Go away. Here, you are now ignored. Regards DL Quote
Yzermandius19 Posted May 28, 2021 Report Posted May 28, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, French Patriot said: Correct. We are not on the same page. Go away. Here, you are now ignored. Regards DL this is not a safe space this is not an echo chamber where everyone who disagrees with you goes away learn to deal Edited May 28, 2021 by Yzermandius19 Quote
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