So much for "The Quagmire"

[Montgomery Burns]

Iraq is a democracy. 

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From: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9659209

"The returns have raised questions over the possibility of irregularities in the balloting."

Yeah, a good old American democracy.

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It's not very honest when you post half of a sentence and omit the second half of the sentence where the Associated Press gives their OPINION about "the possiblilty of irregularities" because there were more "yes" votes than the AP thought there should be.

Only the liberal media--and the AP is liberal--would be befuddled that so many would vote yes to a constitution that guarantees freedom of speech, freedom of the press, and freedom of religion. The totalitarian-supporting liberals/leftists despise that. Liberals/leftists and Totalitarians both want total domination of their ideologies. They both desire to have the entire world speak their language and blindly follow their rules. They both hate any education that allows free thought, as free thought is the most dangerous enemy to Totalitarians and liberals/leftists. The Muslims have Sharia, liberals/leftists have Political Correctness.

[Guest eureka]

You've been teetering on the edge for some time, Monty. The last would seem to indicate that you have flipped your lid completely.

[Shakeyhands]

Hey Monty, Here is some fantastic news for you! How many years does a quagmire make?

U.S. troops may stay in Iraq until 2015: Rice

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentSe...99037&t=TS_Home

[Black Dog]

This quagmire even has its own "secret war", a la Cambodia.

series of clashes in the last year between American and Syrian troops, including a prolonged firefight this summer that killed several Syrians, has raised the prospect that cross-border military operations may become a dangerous new front in the Iraq war, according to current and former military and government officials.

The firefight, between Army Rangers and Syrian troops along the border with Iraq, was the most serious of the conflicts with President Bashar al-Assad's forces, according to American and Syrian officials.

G.I.'s and Syrians in Tense Clashes on Iraqi Border

[newbie]

It appears that the Iraq Constitution has passed.  I suspected that it had--because the Anti-Bush/Pro Terrorist liberal media had been strangely silent.  I would like to congratulate the free people of Iraq on this moment

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Uh, you make it sound as if this mess was over. Well it's still a quagmire until the U.S. and other forces exit. And according to U.S. sources, that could be quite a while. So much for Bush's 2002 election promise of a clear and concise exit strategy should they ever go to war.

[Montgomery Burns]

You've been teetering on the edge for some time, Monty. The last would seem to indicate that you have flipped your lid completely.

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Can you make a post without an ad hom attack?

[Montgomery Burns]

Hey Monty, Here is some fantastic news for you!  How many years does a quagmire make?

U.S. troops may stay in Iraq until 2015: Rice

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentSe...99037&t=TS_Home

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There's still US troops in Germany and Japan - two "quagmires" that had democracy forced on them.

And when will the US bring the troops home from Bosnia? Clinton - who bombed Bosnia without approval from Congress - said they would be home in 1996.

[Montgomery Burns]

This quagmire even has its own "secret war", a la Cambodia.

series of clashes in the last year between American and Syrian troops, including a prolonged firefight this summer that killed several Syrians, has raised the prospect that cross-border military operations may become a dangerous new front in the Iraq war, according to current and former military and government officials.

The firefight, between Army Rangers and Syrian troops along the border with Iraq, was the most serious of the conflicts with President Bashar al-Assad's forces, according to American and Syrian officials.

G.I.'s and Syrians in Tense Clashes on Iraqi Border

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You mean like the secret mission that John Kerry was on in Cambodia on Christmas Eve 1968, under orders from President Nixon?

Maybe the US should leave Iraq like they left Vietnam. Then another 2 million innocents could be slaughtered. Sure that wouldn't be great, but at least the left could have a collective orgasm hearing about another 2 million innocents massacred.

[Montgomery Burns]

It appears that the Iraq Constitution has passed.  I suspected that it had--because the Anti-Bush/Pro Terrorist liberal media had been strangely silent.  I would like to congratulate the free people of Iraq on this moment

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Uh, you make it sound as if this mess was over. Well it's still a quagmire until the U.S. and other forces exit. And according to U.S. sources, that could be quite a while. So much for Bush's 2002 election promise of a clear and concise exit strategy should they ever go to war.

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Elections held less than 2 years after Saddam was overthrown; a constitution passed--written by Iraqis themselves--that guarantees Iraqis freedom of religion, speech and freedom of the press. Some quagmire. But to the left, freedom is considered a quagmire.

Thank goodness, people like you aren't in charge of helping Iraq. You'd go on nat'l TV and announce the exact date that the US troops are leaving, giving the terrorists a clear strategy. Thankfully Bush has never given a date as to when the troops are leaving--which people like you and John Kerry demand.

[Black Dog]

There's still US troops in Germany and Japan - two "quagmires" that had democracy forced on them.

This example proves once again that people who denounce the use of the term "quagmire" don't know what it means.

Literally speaking, a quagmire is a soft wet area of low-lying land that sinks underfoot. In a geopolitical sense, it's a sticky situatiopn. Iraq is a quagmire freom the U.S. perspective because they are stuck there. They can't leave because of the probability of full-scale civil/sectarian conflict (something our troll here acknowledges in his next post), and they can't reallly stay indefinitely because of the costs (political, economic and in lives) and that their mere prescence contributes to the instability.

Germany and Japan post WW2 were not quagmires because the conflict was over by the time the occupation began. There was no large scale resistance to the occupation or democratic reforms in either country, unlike Iraq. The situations are so different in so many ways that they should not be uttered in the same breath.

Irony time:

Can you make a post without an ad hom attack?

All your posts are ad hominems.

But to the left, freedom is considered a quagmire.

but at least the left could have a collective orgasm hearing about another 2 million innocents massacred.

[Shady]

Maybe the US should leave Iraq like they left Vietnam. Then another 2 million innocents could be slaughtered. Sure that wouldn't be great, but at least the left could have a collective orgasm hearing about another 2 million innocents massacred

EXACTLY!!!!! The blood of at least 2 million people in Vietnam are on the hands of the same kind of people that are today asking for the same kind of withdrawal from Iraq. We're suppose to learn from history, not continue to make the same stupid mistakes. But you have to realize one thing. The Left-type-kooks, will never, ever, ever, refer to Iraq as a democracy, nor will they ever, ever, ever admit to any type of success there. To do so, is to give credit to President Bush. If they did that, their Left-type-kook heads would explode.

[Montgomery Burns]

Pictures you won't see in the liberal media (especially the first pic)

[Riverwind]

The Left-type-kooks, will never, ever, ever, refer to Iraq as a democracy, nor will they ever, ever, ever admit to any type of success there.

I sure it will happen as soon as the right wing nut jobs acknowledge that Bush lied to the US public about WMDs and connections between Saddam and Al Queda.

[Shady]

I sure it will happen as soon as the right wing nut jobs acknowledge that Bush lied to the US public about WMDs and connections between Saddam and Al Queda

Once again, if Bush lied about WMD then so did the United Nations, so did France, Germany, Russia, Britian, China, etc. ALL had intelligence related to Iraq and WMD.

[Riverwind]

Once again, if Bush lied about WMD then so did the United Nations, so did France, Germany, Russia, Britian, China, etc.  ALL had intelligence related to Iraq and WMD.

But only Bush insisted that the intelligence was accurate enough to justify an invasion. We know today that the intelligence was wrong - so you could say that France, Germany and Russia do a better job distigushing between intelligence information that is likely to be accurate and information that is likely to be inaccurate. But that does not make a difference to the radical right who insists that Bush never makes any mistakes.

[Shady]

But only Bush insisted that the intelligence was accurate enough to justify an invasion. We know today that the intelligence was wrong - so you could say that France, Germany and Russia do a better job distigushing between intelligence information that is likely to be accurate and information that is likely to be inaccurate. But that does not make a difference to the radical right who insists that Bush never makes any mistakes

Thank you, you just proved my point. I never said that Bush doesn't make mistakes, I just said that he didn't lie. You stated he lied, but now you admit to the other countries having similar intelligence related to Iraq and WMD. Case closed.

[Riverwind]

Thank you, you just proved my point.  I never said that Bush doesn't make mistakes, I just said that he didn't lie.  You stated he lied, but now you admit to the other countries having similar intelligence related to Iraq and WMD.  Case closed.

Hardly, the evidence shows that pre invasion intelligence was so bad that anyone who believed it was sufficient to justify an immediate invasion was either lying or incompetent. So if Bush was not lying does that mean you believe he is incompetent?

[Guest eureka]

I can, Monty, and do. However, I am getting really concerned about your mental condition.

When you say that the Iraqi Constitution guarantees freedom of religion, freedom of speech, and freedom of the press, when it does the opposite, then I have cause for concern. Thus, my comment was not ad hominen.

[Black Dog]

The blood of at least 2 million people in Vietnam are on the hands of the same kind of people that are today asking for the same kind of withdrawal from Iraq.

Bullshit. First, the 2 million number is the number civilians in both the north and the south between 1954 and 1975: before, during and after U.S. involvement. To pin that stagering number to the anti-war movement is utterly ridiculous.

The U.S. defeat in Vietnam was the result of the same poor planning, fuzzy morality and hazy goals as the current clusterf**k in Iraq.

We're suppose to learn from history, not continue to make the same stupid mistakes.

Tell that to the planners at the Pentagon.

But you have to realize one thing. The Left-type-kooks, will never, ever, ever, refer to Iraq as a democracy, nor will they ever, ever, ever admit to any type of success there. To do so, is to give credit to President Bush. If they did that, their Left-type-kook heads would explode.

Utterly asinine. The problem is that this enterprise was doomed from the start. Even if one accepts that the motive was noble, there was absolutely no chance of this experiment succeeding. Iraq is not a democracy in any meaningful sense of the word. Casting a ballot for a candidate you don't know or a document you haven't read is not democracy.

What's more, should Iraq become a democracy (against the odds), it will be because Iraqis make it so, not because some foreign power deems it thus. Any success in Iarq will be in spite of, not because of, George W. Bush and his pack of buffoons.

[cgarrett]

It appears that the Iraq Constitution has passed.  I suspected that it had--because the Anti-Bush/Pro Terrorist liberal media had been strangely silent.  I would like to congratulate the free people of Iraq on this momentous occasion as well as thank everybody who has been a part in making this happen:

The people of Iraq, the US troops, the brave and loyal coalition troops, and the Bush Administration for continuing the fine Republican tradition (Lincoln, Reagan, Civil Rights Act) of liberating millions upon millions of the oppressed. 

I can't wait to see the far left protest the Iraq Constitution. 

As for the Democrats, they used to have nads when it came to foreign policy, but none since John Kennedy.  Until the Democrats convince the American public that it can protect it from its enemies, they have no chance of winning the White House.

Seriously.  Jimmy Carter?  Michael Dukakis? 

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i've been away from this forum for awhile... i can only suggest not responding to any more posts from this guy. he must be living upside down with all the crap that comes out of his mouth constantly.

iraq is not a quagmire. everyone with any intelligence (including the white house) knows (and knew) the amount of time and money involved. its just that they didn't really properly inform the american people about what it was going to take and who was going to pay for it.

they also failed to let them know that it was strickly about oil.

rich republican supporters don't have boys on the ground taking bullets in the head. its mostly kids who are trying to get a college degree and get out of their trailers.

us oil companies and arm manufacturers joined at the hip to the white house are not paying for it. they will simply be reaping the massive profits. no, american tax payers are footing the entire bill. bill clinton left office with government surplus. g.w bush has almost _doubled_ the national debt!!! to over 7 TRILLION dollars! and this guy advertises himself as someone who cuts spending! ha!

i'm extremely glad that we canadians are not paying for it.

this will be good for the iraqi people, provided they continue to kill americans and their puppet governments and control their own wealth. power to them!

i suspect that if things continue as they have that iraq will have another military regime in place in any case... just one that is subservient to american enterprise through the state department.

this guy also knows _NOTHING_ about lincoln!

[Montgomery Burns]

cgarrett:

i've been away from this forum for awhile

Can you leave again for a little while? I have no problems with debate, but seriously...

"...it was [sic] strickly about oil."

And the foolish Bush administration gave the owners all rights to that oil.

And no Republicans "on the ground taking bullets"? 80% of the military is Republican!

this will be good for the iraqi people, provided they continue to kill americans and their puppet governments and control their own wealth. power to them!

I think we can add Cgarrett to the ilk of Michael Moore and George Galloway. We know whose side Cgarrett is on.

Just another example of the left's hatred for freedom...

[tml12]

cgarrett:

i've been away from this forum for awhile

Can you leave again for a little while? I have no problems with debate, but seriously...

"...it was [sic] strickly about oil."

And the foolish Bush administration gave the owners all rights to that oil.

And no Republicans "on the ground taking bullets"? 80% of the military is Republican!

this will be good for the iraqi people, provided they continue to kill americans and their puppet governments and control their own wealth. power to them!

I think we can add Cgarrett to the ilk of Michael Moore and George Galloway. We know whose side Cgarrett is on.

Just another example of the left's hatred for freedom...

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You make good arguments Burns BUT answer this:

1) Do you believe Americans, champions of free market and low taxes for fewer government services, will be happy for this war in five years when they will be paying much higher taxes for it?

See I just think their human nature is like "hey Iraq we'd love to help you even though you may not want it...but, WHAT, I am PAYING WHAT IN TAXES TO HELP YOU???

See, I just don't see that flying in five years time...

[Montgomery Burns]

It appears that the Iraq Constitution has passed.  I suspected that it had--because the Anti-Bush/Pro Terrorist liberal media had been strangely silent.  I would like to congratulate the free people of Iraq on this moment

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Uh, you make it sound as if this mess was over. Well it's still a quagmire until the U.S. and other forces exit. And according to U.S. sources, that could be quite a while. So much for Bush's 2002 election promise of a clear and concise exit strategy should they ever go to war.

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Until US forces exit...

So Germany, Japan, south Korea, and other countries that have US troops are quagmires?

QuagmireMania is Runnin' Wild!

[newbie]

Let's cut to the chase shall we? Bush stood on the USS Abraham Lincoln May 1, 2003, announcing an end to major combat (under a huge sign MISSION ACCOMPLISHED). In his first debate with Al Gore, he stated that in the case of a war, a clear exit strategy needed to be in place PRIOR to war. This man is 100% responsible for the ongoing mess in Iraq. Add the above to his handling of Katrina, his crony appointments, and his staff scandals and you have an incompetent leader whose actions has cost 1000's of lives. Bush and his adminstration epitomizes the word quagmire.

[Montgomery Burns]

Let's cut to the chase shall we? Bush stood on the USS Abraham Lincoln May 1, 2003, announcing an end to major combat (under a huge sign MISSION ACCOMPLISHED). In his first debate with Al Gore, he stated that in the case of a war, a clear exit strategy needed to be in place PRIOR to war. This man is 100% responsible for the ongoing mess in Iraq. Add the above to his handling of Katrina, his crony appointments, and his staff scandals and you have an incompetent leader whose actions has cost 1000's of lives. Bush and his adminstration epitomizes the word quagmire.

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A classic example of BDS (Bush Derangement Syndrome)...