Some Tory MP's want Harper out

[newbie]

Surprise, surprise.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor..._27/?hub=Canada

[mirror]

Well more problems for Mr Harper.

Quebec Tories want him to go.

But the NDP and the Liberals want him to stay. Gee, I wonder why!

[LotusLandLunatic]

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor..._27/?hub=Canada

"Party officials said the four people who signed the statement appeared to have supported Belinda Stronach.

Brian Mulroney built two consecutive majority governments on Quebec support in the 1980s."

Brian Mulroney ALSO supported Belinda. So did Mike Harris, and if I remember correctly so did Preston Manning and Ralph Klein.

That was a protest vote, and all these VIT's (Very Important Torries) are just waiting for a messiah to bring the Conservatives to fruition.

And should Mario Dumont be chosen to lead the CPCers, don't even bother betting on him in the federal election because high rollers like Brian, Presto, Mike and Ralphie will screw up the odds and all he'll pay is the required 1 to 9.

[mirror]

Harper dehors, apparently

Wells has the actual press release on his website. The people who signed it include candidates and even one who was going to run for them in the next election. Their reason for going public with their proposal to lose Harper is because there is time now as the Gomery report has been delayed.

[Canuck E Stan]

Goota Love it.....the Media that is.....heavy duty Liberal.

Quebec Tories want Harper to step down

"the mutiny is the work of only three former candidates, which leaves 72 others in Quebec."

The guy can't take a fart without the Liberal media making a huge crapping story out of it.No bias in the press....ha.

[mirror]

Actually I heard that Mcleans magazine was recently purchased by Conservative interests. I know things couldn't be too much worse for the Tories but don't give up quite yet. In politics things can change quickly, and although it is a longshot, almost an impossibility, but you never know for sure.

[Cartman]

The guy can't take a fart without the Liberal media making a huge crapping story out of it.No bias in the press....ha.

He lost his top level staff early summer, they recently fired several more in restructuring (which may or may not be significant) and now some are openly calling for his resignation. Sorry, that is not the result of Liberal bias, that is news. If Layton had 1 or 2 people openly calling for him to resign, anyone would call it news. Same for Martin. The question is whether this is going to expand. Only time will tell.

[August1991]

Surprise, surprise.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor..._27/?hub=Canada

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is news?

Hey, let me tell you something. Paul Martin won't get anyone elected in the Quebec ridings of these four either. Is anyone calling for his replacement because of that?

What planet are English-Canadians living on?

[shoop]

Hey, let me tell you something.  Paul Martin won't get anyone elected in the Quebec ridings of these four either.  Is anyone calling for his replacement because of that?

What planet are English-Canadians living on?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What a f**king joke. This thread is completely misleading. Not one of the people quoted in the story are MPs.

Hmmm, I know a lot of y'all don't like Harper or the CPC but there is no reason to sink to deception of this kind.

[kimmy]

Yes, this is comparable to some failed Alberta Liberals (like, say, the guy in my riding who used Liberal campaign signage to promote his injury law firm website...) calling for Martin's resignation because Martin can't win seats in Alberta.

Truth is, unfortunately for the Conservatives, that they have not been able to recruit Quebec candidates of any prominence, for reasons that are in large measure beyond Harper's control. That's unfortunate for the party, but the corollary (am I using that right?) is these Quebec candidates are of no consequence almost by definition.

-k

[Riverwind]

Truth is, unfortunately for the Conservatives, that they have not been able to recruit Quebec candidates of any prominence, for reasons that are in large measure beyond Harper's control.

I disagree with that. Harper choose to make an issue out of gay marriage and, as a result, make the conservatives look like a pack of social dinosaurs in Quebec. He also supported having soldiers go to Iraq which also re-enforced Harper's image as a Bush clone.

[mirror]

Dear kimmy

I think the problem is a little deeper than that. Obviously if only four people go public with their complaints there are a lot more dissatisfied folks but they are just a bit quieter about it. And this is not the first time. What about Crosbie's outburst a few weeks ago? I felt from the very beginning that the Tories should have picked Stronach as leader. One of my reasons was that during the leadership campaign Belinda was popular in Quebec and was from Ontario so she could attract votes there for the Tories where the most seats in Canada are. Now that Stronach has left the Quebec section of the Tory party is crumbling which is impacting on the Ontario situation as well.

Stronach's defection has seriously hurt the Tories as she was the one high profile person who gave them credibility in central Canada. Now that she is gone the Tories are paying the price, and the polling shows it.

87

Cheers

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear kimmy,

Yes, this is comparable to some failed Alberta Liberals (like, say, the guy in my riding who used Liberal campaign signage to promote his injury law firm website...)

Jeepers, you have an 'ambulance-chasing shyst'...er, laywer like that in your riding? That is 'lower than a snake's belly in a wagon rut'.

As mirror points out,

Obviously if only four people go public with their complaints there are a lot more dissatisfied folks but they are just a bit quiter about it

. I remember a 'customer service pointer' I was told about years ago, about dissatisfied customers. Only 2-5% will ever complain about bad service or quality, and the rest just don't come back.

[mirror]

I will say though that the title of this thread is misleading and inaccurate as the story we are disussing here is not about Tory MPs but about disgruntled current Quebec candidates, former Quebec candidates, and Quebec organizers. Unfortunately the thread titles cannot be changed.

[Leader Circle]

Dear kimmy

I think the problem is a little deeper than that. Obviously if only four people go public with their complaints there are a lot more dissatisfied folks but they are just a bit quieter about it. And this is not the first time. What about Crosbie's outburst a few weeks ago? I felt from the very beginning that the Tories should have picked Stronach as leader. One of my reasons was that during the leadership campaign Belinda was popular in Quebec and was from Ontario so she could attract votes there for the Tories where the most seats in Canada are. Now that Stronach has left the Quebec section of the Tory party is crumbling which is impacting on the Ontario situation as well.

Stronach's defection has seriously hurt the Tories as she was the one high profile person who gave them credibility in central Canada. Now that she is gone the Tories are paying the price, and the polling shows it.

87

Cheers

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Mirror,

I think you're wrong about Stronach. If we had her as leader, with her wishy washy decisions and bringing nothing but fame & money to the table, what kind of wingnuts would the CPC look like? She has no credibility at all after defecting to the Liberals. She had no ideas for the party, she never offered up any platforms with which to run on and zero experience, how was she even qualified? She was useless to the CPC. She is not a Conservative anyway, never was. At best she was a red tory and they will gain a few vote in Ontario, but that's it.

The CPC is far better off without her. Lets just see after the election, how many people are complaining about Harper. I think he'll prove them all wrong.

4787504239809340239849089038056468576989685

[shoop]

Mirror,

I think you're wrong about Stronach. If we had her as leader, with her wishy washy decisions and bringing nothing but fame & money to the table, what kind of wingnuts would the CPC look like? She has no credibility at all after defecting to the Liberals. She had no ideas for the party, she never offered up any platforms with which to run on and zero experience, how was she even qualified? She was useless to the CPC. She is not a Conservative anyway, never was. At best she was a red tory and they will gain a few vote in Ontario, but that's it.

The CPC is far better off without her. Lets just see after the election, how many people are complaining about Harper. I think he'll prove them all wrong.

4787504239809340239849089038056468576989685

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

LC,

To follow Greg's wishes I am going to post something a little less partisan.

While I hope you are right about Harper I honestly think it is up in the air at this time.

The CPC's best realistic outcome for this election is a minority government.

This will only come about if Harper runs really well. What Martin does is basically irrelevant. He won't run a great campaign and is very unlikely to make a Turneresque blunder ala the 1984 debates. So it really will come down to Harper.

If the changes to his team have truly been shrewd he has an honest chance at forming government.

PS. mirror et. al - if you have an actualy argument to make against this OR a poll that has been published in the past week or so please respond. If it is going to be the typical attack Harper and show no respect for Greg's wishes, don't even bother...

[mirror]

Dear Leader Circle

I know you think I'm wrong however it is not what I think that matters, it is what Canadians think. Have you seen the polls for the Conservatives since Stronach left?

Sparhawk mentioned earlier in his post earlier about same sex marriage. You talk about the importance of having policies but it is useless to have have policies if your policies are going to turn off the electorate. Stronach was one of a very few Tories who supported SSM which gave the Tories at least some credibility on social issues. Now she's gone and her absence helps to create an image of intolerant people in the Tory party. Your social policies are what is killing the Tories more than anything else.

Because of the seat distribution in the House of Commons it does not matter, in the scheme of things, what the people in Alberta think, if they are in opposition to the rest of the people in Canada. It is what people in Quebec and Ontario think. Until you clearly understand that you will never get very far in Canadian politics.

133

Cheers

[shoop]

Dear Leader Circle

I know you think I'm wrong however it is not what I think that matters, it is what Canadians think. Have you seen the polls for the Conservatives since Stronach left?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have. Including the decima poll that showed the CPC within four points of the Libs nationally.

A poll you conveniently called 'a rogue poll'.

Showing both selective ignorance and true foolishness.

Also seen how you haven't posted any polls released in the last two weeks or so.

Any reason for that?

[Cartman]

Now she's gone and her absence helps to create an image of intolerant people in the Tory party. Your social policies are what is killing the Tories more than anything else.

Because of the seat distribution in the House of Commons it does not matter, in the scheme of things, what the people in Alberta think, if they are in opposition to the rest of the people in Canada. It is what people in Quebec and Ontario think. Until you clearly understand that you will never get very far in Canadian politics.

I agree that her departure really hurt the Tories for the reasons you offer. I also believe that the Tories are perceived as an Albertan party and that it faces a measure of resistance elsewhere as a result. Harper should have worked harder to make the party more inclusive. Stronach could have been a vital part of that effort.

[shoop]

Because of the seat distribution in the House of Commons it does not matter, in the scheme of things, what the people in Alberta think, if they are in opposition to the rest of the people in Canada. It is what people in Quebec and Ontario think. Until you clearly understand that you will never get very far in Canadian politics.

133

Cheers

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Could you help me out with something here.

How can you reconcile this statement with your repeated posts about the relevance of the New Democrats. The CPC currently holds more than three times as many seats in Ontario as do the NDs. The CPC almost doubled the popular vote of the NDs in Quebec.

I really hope you take me off ignore and can explain this contradiction...

[August1991]

Yes, this is comparable to some failed Alberta Liberals (like, say, the guy in my riding who used Liberal campaign signage to promote his injury law firm website...)  calling for Martin's resignation because Martin can't win seats in Alberta.

Truth is, unfortunately for the Conservatives, that they have not been able to recruit Quebec candidates of any prominence, for reasons that are in large measure beyond Harper's control. That's unfortunate for the party, but the corollary (am I using that right?) is these Quebec candidates are of no consequence almost by definition.

-k

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Kimmy, your analogy (uh, metaphor?) is incorrect.

The Tories win seats in Alberta. Paul Martin's Liberals do not win seats in Quebec. (Well, except for about 10-15 Anglo ridings.)

Liberal candidates in Lac St-Jean have every reason to be as bitter as Conservative candidates. I suspect they are. I also suspect that Martin is better at paying them off to shut up.

Harper choose to make an issue out of gay marriage and, as a result, make the conservatives look like a pack of social dinosaurs in Quebec.

Being perceived as "social dinosaurs" is the least of a Tory's problem in Quebec. (In fact, they are not perceived that way at all but I digress.) More pointedly, Martin has approved gay marriage and that hasn't helped Liberal electoral prospects here. So, what's your point?

I think you're wrong about Stronach. If we had her as leader, with her wishy washy decisions and bringing nothing but fame & money to the table, what kind of wingnuts would the CPC look like? She has no credibility at all after defecting to the Liberals. She had no ideas for the party, she never offered up any platforms with which to run on and zero experience, how was she even qualified? She was useless to the CPC. She is not a Conservative anyway, never was. At best she was a red tory and they will gain a few vote in Ontario, but that's it.

I agree with you Shoop. And I'll go further.

In Johnson's book about Harper, it is clear that Harper is very tired of the same old Canadian political hypocrisy of say-this but do-that and buy off whoever makes the most noise. Harper didn't get into politics to play that game. I don't know if English-Canada is ready yet for thesed hard truths.

[mirror]

Kimmy, your analogy (uh, metaphor?) is incorrect.

The Tories win seats in Alberta. Paul Martin's Liberals do not win seats in Quebec. (Well, except for about 10-15 Anglo ridings.)

Sounds like the kind of comment Parizeau made on referendum nite which has haunted the separatists ever since.

[shoop]

In Johnson's book about Harper, it is clear that Harper is very tired of the same old Canadian political hypocrisy of say-this but do-that and buy off whoever makes the most noise.  Harper didn't get into politics to play that game.  I don't know if English-Canada is ready yet for thesed hard truths.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think this election will be much more to Harper's liking than the constant attacks on this site would indicate.

The party has been much better at keeping the lunatic fringe quiet. Can anyone remember the last time some nutcase MP made a fool of himself? Grewal is fading from memory and the newest 'evidence' against the CPC is that the leader is reorganizing his office??? wtf? That's the end of Canada right there.

The fall is looking ugly for the Liberals.

Little Jackie Layton is bound to return to the obscurity he so rightly deserves. Kinda sad his pathetic little 19 seats were heralded as a triumph this past election.

The Canadian people are sick of the constant attacks and histrionics by their political leaders. Harper has proven he has gotten the message - take a look at the TV ads in Ontario. All positive - all selling the team. It took Martin about five minutes to forget his democratic reform agenda....

[Cartman]

The party has been much better at keeping the lunatic fringe quiet. Can anyone remember the last time some nutcase MP made a fool of himself?

Agreed. A few months without a Conservative crackpot speaking out constitutes a trend.

[shoop]

Agreed.  A few months without a Conservative crackpot speaking out constitutes a trend.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hopefully the crackpots see the logic in shutting their yaps. You never heard the likes of Carolyn Bennett mouthing of during an election.