Fiscal Imbalance

[August1991]

While doing something else, I came across this wonderful and short essay by Andrew Coyne (written in April 2005) about the so-called fiscal imbalance:

The fiscal imbalance is one of those things like dark matter or quantum uncertainty that defy comprehension by the ordinary layman. Its precise magnitude has been the subject of countless arcane calculations -- the government of Quebec devoted a whole white paper to the subject -- but its basic mathematical expression may be reduced, by a combination of Lagrange polynomial interpolation and dead reckoning, to two lines: 1. Ottawa has money. 2. We want it.

--

If the provinces want to raise more revenues, there is nothing to stop them from doing so -- certainly nothing of Ottawa’s doing. They have access to every major revenue stream the feds have, plus some the feds do not. But how tiresome it is to have to go cap in hand to one’s own citizens, when you can just use your bank card at the all-night Ottawa ATM instead.

[B. Max]

Ottawa had been sorta gloating over their big surplus until they noticed somebody eyeing it up. All of a sudden it seem to disappear. Look out alberta. Personally i like the way alaska does it. Once a year everyone gets a cheque.

[Riverwind]

Ottawa had been sorta gloating over their big surplus until they noticed somebody eyeing it up. All of a sudden it seem to disappear. Look out alberta. Personally i like the way alaska does it. Once a year everyone gets a cheque.

Interesting idea. I don't want governments to go back into deficit spending because, like alcoholics and that one drink, governments that go into deficits cannot stop. However, there needs to be a better way of spending the supluses than letting the governing party run around like Santa Claus. A single check mailed to every Canadian taxpayer at the end of the year would be an extremely appropriate way to deal with it.

[B. Max]

Ottawa had been sorta gloating over their big surplus until they noticed somebody eyeing it up. All of a sudden it seem to disappear. Look out alberta. Personally i like the way alaska does it. Once a year everyone gets a cheque.

Interesting idea. I don't want governments to go back into deficit spending because, like alcoholics and that one drink, governments that go into deficits cannot stop. However, there needs to be a better way of spending the supluses than letting the governing party run around like Santa Claus. A single check mailed to every Canadian taxpayer at the end of the year would be an extremely appropriate way to deal with it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually i was only thinking about alberta's surplus from oil royalties as a way of disposing of it to albertans before someone else tries to grab it.

[Riverwind]

Actually i was only thinking about alberta's surplus from oil royalties as a way of disposing of it to albertans before someone else tries to grab it.

Sounds like an idea. Then Ontario can start handing out bus tickets to Calgary to the homeless on Yonge St.

[B. Max]

Actually i was only thinking about alberta's surplus from oil royalties as a way of disposing of it to albertans before someone else tries to grab it.

Sounds like an idea. Then Ontario can start handing out bus tickets to Calgary to the homeless on Yonge St.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As long as the bus company understands that they will be responsible for paying their way back.

[Riverwind]

Actually i was only thinking about alberta's surplus from oil royalties as a way of disposing of it to albertans before someone else tries to grab it.

Sounds like an idea. Then Ontario can start handing out bus tickets to Calgary to the homeless on Yonge St.

As long as the bus company understands that they will be responsible for paying their way back.

Why? Alberta cannot stop anybody from moving to the province. In fact, it would be explicitly illegal for Alberta to put up any barrier to migration.

[August1991]

A single check mailed to every Canadian taxpayer at the end of the year would be an extremely appropriate way to deal with it.

The usual name for that is a tax cut.

Whether the government uses the money to pay down the debt or it simply gives us the money through a tax cut matters little. More important is that it doesn't spend the money on another hare-brained scheme.

[Riverwind]

A single check mailed to every Canadian taxpayer at the end of the year would be an extremely appropriate way to deal with it.

The usual name for that is a tax cut.

Tax cuts are a year upon year cost. A one time tax refund based on surplus monies known to exist would ensure the fiscal nightmare south of the border does not migrate north.

[B. Max]

Actually i was only thinking about alberta's surplus from oil royalties as a way of disposing of it to albertans before someone else tries to grab it.

Sounds like an idea. Then Ontario can start handing out bus tickets to Calgary to the homeless on Yonge St.

As long as the bus company understands that they will be responsible for paying their way back.

Why? Alberta cannot stop anybody from moving to the province. In fact, it would be explicitly illegal for Alberta to put up any barrier to migration.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If Ont. can deport bus loads of its dregs of society, alberta can certainly turn them around at the border. In fact we sent them back to BC and Ont. before. Some years ago now, with one way bus tickets. Alberta does not claim to be a welfare state.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear August1991,

While doing something else, I came across this wonderful and short essay by Andrew Coyne (written in April 2005) about the so-called fiscal imbalance:

Indeed a good piece. Usually, for me 'while doing something else', I come across all those darned pop-up ads from those kinky websites....(well, not literally 'across'...)

A single check mailed to every Canadian taxpayer at the end of the year would be an extremely appropriate way to deal with it.

Could be an interesting idea, but half of it could be eaten by admin costs. I would rather see a surplus used to bolster the health care system, post-secondary education or our roadways, or a myriad of other infrastructure problems. Or, like Alberta should do, lend it out (at a reasonable rate of interest) and consider it an investment for the future, when circumstances may be less favourable.

[Riverwind]

If Ont. can deport bus loads of its dregs of society, alberta can certainly turn them around at the border. In fact we sent them back to BC and Ont. before. Some years ago now, with one way bus tickets. Alberta does not claim to be a welfare state.

A yes. The true nature of the Alberta advantge comes to light: we don't have a homeless problem because we expel them to other provinces.

At the the end of the day, Alberta will not be able to maintain a much higher standard of living compared to other provinces without attracting people - both good and bad. If Alberta tries to take only the good and dump the bad on other provinces then Alberta should not be surprised to find out that other provinces respond in similar way: or demand that the federal govt provide assistance for displaced Albertans.

[B. Max]

If Ont. can deport bus loads of its dregs of society, alberta can certainly turn them around at the border. In fact we sent them back to BC and Ont. before. Some years ago now, with one way bus tickets. Alberta does not claim to be a welfare state.

A yes. The true nature of the Alberta advantge comes to light: we don't have a homeless problem because we expel them to other provinces.

At the the end of the day, Alberta will not be able to maintain a much higher standard of living compared to other provinces without attracting people - both good and bad. If Alberta tries to take only the good and dump the bad on other provinces then Alberta should not be surprised to find out that other provinces respond in similar way: or demand that the federal govt provide assistance for displaced Albertans.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The fact is those that were deported were from other provinces who were here looking for a hand out and had no intention of working.

[cybercoma]

We give Ottawa money for services, they damn well better spend it all on us. If they're not spending it all, they should be giving us our money back. End of story.

[shoop]

We give Ottawa money for services, they damn well better spend it all on us.  If they're not spending it all, they should be giving us our money back.  End of story.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Theoretically a good point, but somebody's got pay off that damned debt.

[kimmy]

Interesting idea. I don't want governments to go back into deficit spending because, like alcoholics and that one drink, governments that go into deficits cannot stop. However, there needs to be a better way of spending the supluses than letting the governing party run around like Santa Claus. A single check mailed to every Canadian taxpayer at the end of the year would be an extremely appropriate way to deal with it.

Maybe once the national debt is paid off, that would be something worth looking at.

At the the end of the day, Alberta will not be able to maintain a much higher standard of living compared to other provinces without attracting people - both good and bad. If Alberta tries to take only the good and dump the bad on other provinces then Alberta should not be surprised to find out that other provinces respond in similar way: or demand that the federal govt provide assistance for displaced Albertans.

How odd it is that most threads B.Max participates in turn into sheer nonsense in short order.

In regard to the idea of other provinces buying their poor a one-way ticket to Alberta, perhaps it is worth a look. Those people won't find Alberta's social programs more generous than those back home. However, they'll find little difficulty finding work. A win-win.

-k

[Bakunin]

Both are fighting for money from the same pockets, our pockets.

If one take too much for his need, then it create a problem. Maybe theorically its not clear but in practice it is.

Theorically, we can taxes citizen at 100% but in practice it doesn't work, there is a limit before the economy crash.

Theorically, governments are suppose to work for the benefit of the citizen first, in practice, they fight against each others and we have to deal with the consequence. The benefit of the citizen doesn't come before the benefit of their party...

Theorically, canada is a confederation, in theory the federal government was created by the province, in theory that government is limited by juridiction.

In practice we live in a total different world.

In theory a constitution is the most important consensus a society must have, its the hearth of the country, the reason it lives and reflect the beleive of that population, its the base of a modern democracy. In practice its a piece of papers some people dissrespectfully force down the troath of the others.

So yeah, in theory Fiscal imbalance is impossible between 2 governments with taxations powers but in practice if one government abuse, it affect the other. At that point he can decide to respect the people first and ask the other government to stop abusing or he can decide to abuste the citizen, overtax them or give up its own juridiction and let the other government take it in charge. You see, its just a weapon after all.

2 governments using the same pocket to fill needs shouldn't be fighting each others, juridictions should be respected and taxation power not abused. If they can't the citizen must be able to sanction the government that abuse the other therefore its perfectly wise from the provincial government to inform us what is going on...

We all know the huge federal deficit didn't disapear with good gestion....

[mirror]

How odd it is that most threads B.Max participates in turn into sheer nonsense in short order.

Dear kimmy

One of a select few that I have had on ignore now for about a week. I can't say enough good things about this feature.

Cheers,

[B. Max]

Interesting idea. I don't want governments to go back into deficit spending because, like alcoholics and that one drink, governments that go into deficits cannot stop. However, there needs to be a better way of spending the supluses than letting the governing party run around like Santa Claus. A single check mailed to every Canadian taxpayer at the end of the year would be an extremely appropriate way to deal with it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe once the national debt is paid off, that would be something worth looking at.

At the the end of the day, Alberta will not be able to maintain a much higher standard of living compared to other provinces without attracting people - both good and bad. If Alberta tries to take only the good and dump the bad on other provinces then Alberta should not be surprised to find out that other provinces respond in similar way: or demand that the federal govt provide assistance for displaced Albertans.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How odd it is that most threads B.Max participates in turn into sheer nonsense in short order.

In regard to the idea of other provinces buying their poor a one-way ticket to Alberta, perhaps it is worth a look. Those people won't find Alberta's social programs more generous than those back home. However, they'll find little difficulty finding work. A win-win.

-k

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Those from other provinces who wanted to work have already for the most part come here and found it. If other provinces try sending us their free ride crowd we'll send them right back like we did before.

[err]

Actually i was only thinking about alberta's surplus from oil royalties as a way of disposing of it to albertans before someone else tries to grab it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

B. Max the socialist... It must have been a slip of the tongue..... Or were you just referring to "rich" Albertans.