Yzermandius19 Posted July 16, 2019 Report Posted July 16, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: There will still be a hockey season if Marner sits, the Leafs will still have offence but be brought down by their lack of D and a wonky goaltender, if I thought the Leafs were favorites loaded up and on the cusp, that would be different, but I think the Leafs are overrated and Marner doesn't put them over the top, ergo, no pressure this year, let him sit, it's not a deal breaker either way, so just wait him out, if he decides he doesn't want to play this year, that's his choice, and the fans will blame him not Dubas, do Dubas has nothing to lose. If the Leafs are overrated and Marner won't put them over the top, then time to move Tavares and Nylander, because they won't put them over the top either. Pay Marner, the Tavares window is closing fast, best get a good return on him while you still can, and maximize the future chances of winning a cup, instead of being in win now mode when they are unlikely to win. Running Marner out of town and clinging to Tavares is the stupidest move possible in this situation. It's the Same Old Leafs to cling to aging stars and running the young stars out of town. Caving to Tavares and moving on from Marner, that's as Same Old as it gets dude, that's full blown Harold Ballarditis. Edited July 16, 2019 by Yzermandius19
Dougie93 Posted July 16, 2019 Report Posted July 16, 2019 1 minute ago, Yzermandius19 said: If the Leafs are overrated and Marner won't put them over the top, then time to move Tavares and Nylander, because they won't put them over the top either. Pay Marner, the Tavares window is closing fast, best get a good return on him while you still can, and maximize the future chances of winning a cup, instead of being in win now mode when they are unlikely to win. No, trade Marner, Nylander has the better cap hit for the buck, Marner is not worth 5 million more than Nylander, keep Ocho-Ocho, move Marner, you get a much better return and more cap room.
Yzermandius19 Posted July 16, 2019 Report Posted July 16, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: No, trade Marner, Nylander has the better cap hit for the buck, Marner is not worth 5 million more than Nylander, keep Ocho-Ocho, move Marner, you get a much better return and more cap room. Marner is worth $5 million more than Nylander, that's why you shouldn't have overpaid him. He's worth more than Tavares, and you're paying him $11 million, that's why shouldn't have overpaid him. Siding with Nylander over Marner is stupid. Siding with Tavares over Marner is also really stupid. What is wrong with you? If you didn't want to pay the big bucks for Marner, shouldn't have paid the big bucks for Tavares and Nylander, punishing Marner for that, is disrespectful, straight up. Edited July 16, 2019 by Yzermandius19
Dougie93 Posted July 16, 2019 Report Posted July 16, 2019 1 minute ago, Yzermandius19 said: Marner is worth $5 million more than Nylander, that's why you shouldn't have overpaid him. He's worth more than Tavares, and you're paying him $11 million, that's why shouldn't have overpaid him. Siding with Nylander over Marner is stupid. Siding with Tavares over Marner is also really stupid. What is wrong with you? I'm not siding with anybody, Nylander is cheaper and gets the job done for 7, if Marner won't sign, you trade Marner for way more than you would get for Nylander, then you have 10-12 million to spend, Marner is not worth five million more than Nylander, you're just overrating Marner and underrating Nylander.
Yzermandius19 Posted July 16, 2019 Report Posted July 16, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: I'm not siding with anybody, Nylander is cheaper and gets the job done for 7, if Marner won't sign, you trade Marner for way more than you would get for Nylander, then you have 10-12 million to spend, Marner is not worth five million more than Nylander, you're just overrating Marner and underrating Nylander. Trade Tavares, he's old and not getting any younger, don't keep him and ditch the young star, that's what Harold Ballard would do. Don't go back to Harold Ballardville Toronto, that never ends well. Edited July 16, 2019 by Yzermandius19
Dougie93 Posted July 16, 2019 Report Posted July 16, 2019 (edited) Nylander is actually worth more than Marner long term, because Nylander plays center and Marner is a winger, 11.6 million for a winger is an overpay every time, you only pay top top dollar for centers and defensemen, wingers are a dime a dozen, goalies are too unpredictable to spend big money on, Marner is good, but he's not Matthews no matter how long he sits out. Edited July 16, 2019 by Dougie93
Yzermandius19 Posted July 16, 2019 Report Posted July 16, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: Nylander is actually worth more than Marner long term, because Nylander plays center and Marner is a winger, 11.6 million for a winger is an overpay every time, you only pay top top dollar for centers and defensemen, wingers are a dime a dozen, goalies are too unpredictable to spend big money on, Marner is good, but he's not Matthews no matter how long he sits out. Nylander ain't ever going to play center, if he does, I'd be surprised, he certainly won't be one on the Leafs if you cling to Tavares. Nylander is just an overpaid winger from where I am standing, though his contract won't look so bad in a few years. Matthews should have gotten more, but took the shorter term deal to get to UFA sooner, $11.6 for a winger is pricey, but some wingers are worth overpaying, Marner is one of them. Overpaying Nylander is a far more egregious offence than overpaying Marner, that I can tell you. Edited July 16, 2019 by Yzermandius19
Dougie93 Posted July 16, 2019 Report Posted July 16, 2019 3 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: Nylander ain't ever going to play center, if he does, I'd be surprised. Nylander is just an overpaid winger from where I am standing, though his contract won't look so bad in a few years. Matthews should have gotten more, but took the shorter term deal to get to UFA sooner, $11.6 for a winger is pricey, but some wingers are worth overpaying, Marner is one of them. If Marner wont sign, he has to go, it's up to the player if he wants to stay, if Marner is going to be the constant problem child, which he is already, that's on him, if they were going to give him what he wants they would have done it by now, if Marner is going to sit out the whole year, then it's time to shop him.
Yzermandius19 Posted July 16, 2019 Report Posted July 16, 2019 (edited) I'm sure some teams desperate for a center will think Nylander is their 1C of their future, probably Nashville, if Poille is still the GM. He's determined to keep getting burned, like Charlie Brown trying to kick the football. Edited July 16, 2019 by Yzermandius19
Yzermandius19 Posted July 16, 2019 Report Posted July 16, 2019 Just now, Dougie93 said: If Marner wont sign, he has to go, it's up to the player if he wants to stay, if Marner is going to be the constant problem child, which he is already, that's on him, if they were going to give him what he wants they would have done it by now, if Marner is going to sit out the whole year, then it's time to shop him. He ain't a problem child for wanting to get paid what he's worth, that's horsesh*t Marner hater talk.
Yzermandius19 Posted July 16, 2019 Report Posted July 16, 2019 (edited) Hell once Nashville figure out that Duchene ain't a 1C, trade them Tavares or Nylander and get some defense back. With Tavares they'd finally have their 1C but for a short window, and with Nylander they'll probably fool themselves into think he's a 1C too. If you want that defense, I know a sucker GM loaded with them who is prone to trading them for some magic beans. Exploit that shit. Edited July 16, 2019 by Yzermandius19
Dougie93 Posted July 16, 2019 Report Posted July 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: He ain't a problem child for wanting to get paid what he's worth, that's horsesh*t Marner hater talk. F*ck Marner and the invasive hockey parent he rode in on, if Marner doesn't sign, I disavow him. I'm not going to burn my jersey since I don't waste money buying that sort of crap, none the less, we move on without him, take the picks and cap room, sayonara, Mitch.
Yzermandius19 Posted July 16, 2019 Report Posted July 16, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: F*ck Marner and the invasive hockey parent he rode in on, if Marner doesn't sign, I disavow him. I'm not going to burn my jersey since I don't waste money buying that sort of crap, none the less, we move on without him, take the picks and cap room, sayonara, Mitch. Just fleece Dave Poile and get that defense back, keep Marner. Stop the homer lowballing of players who deserved to get paid, because you want him to take hometown discount that he ain't going to take, and move the bums who make paying that player a problem. Edited July 16, 2019 by Yzermandius19
Yzermandius19 Posted July 16, 2019 Report Posted July 16, 2019 (edited) Tavares and Nylander are the problem, if you move on from Marner, you'll see you're right back in Harold Ballardville, sooner or later. Edited July 16, 2019 by Yzermandius19
Dougie93 Posted July 16, 2019 Report Posted July 16, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: Just fleece Dave Poile and get that defense back, keep Marner. Stop the homer lowballing of players who deserved to get paid, because you want him to take hometown discount that he ain't going to take, and move the bums who make paying that player a problem. Nobody is lowballing hm, he turned down more than Kucherov money, he turned down 7 x 12.5, he's blowing it up if he doesn't get a five year contract. no UFA years, but still full pop, he has no leverage because nobody is offer sheeting him for that, so let him sit, if he sits out into the season, you shop him, since he's blowing it up anyways by doing that. Edited July 16, 2019 by Dougie93
Yzermandius19 Posted July 16, 2019 Report Posted July 16, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: Nobody is lowballing hm, he turned down more than Kucherov money, he turned down 7 x 12.5, he's blowing it up if he doesn't get a five year contract. no UFA years, but still full pop, he has no leverage because nobody is offer sheeting him for that, so let him sit, if he sits out into the season, you shop him, since he's blowing it up anyways by doing that. He'll probably cave a little on term, but when that contract is up, he'll play hard ball on the term of the next deal, he ain't willing to sign away UFA years, and if he bridges, he'll be even less likely to budge next time around than this time around, which has him turning down McDavid money due to the term. Which is actually a smart move, because he'll make a lot more $12.5 million a year when he gets to UFA, so take a tiny hit now to get paid more in UFA, instead of signing away UFA years to get paid a little more. Edited July 16, 2019 by Yzermandius19
Dougie93 Posted July 16, 2019 Report Posted July 16, 2019 1 minute ago, Yzermandius19 said: He'll probably cave a little on term, but when that contract is up, he'll play hard ball on the term of the next deal, he ain't willing to sign away UFA years, and if he bridges, he'll be even less likely to budge next time around than this time around. If he bridges, that's fine, if he goes six, that's fine, but he's not getting the Matthews contract from Dubas, if he was, it would be a done deal already, so Marner is blowing it up if he doesn't sign the deals on the table, at which point, you have to shop him.
Yzermandius19 Posted July 16, 2019 Report Posted July 16, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: If he bridges, that's fine, if he goes six, that's fine, but he's not getting the Matthews contract from Dubas, if he was, it would be a done deal already, so Marner is blowing it up if he doesn't sign the deals on the table, at which point, you have to shop him. He'd rather bridge for three than sign for six, and then when the three year bridge is up, sign a two year bridge to take him to UFA. Any big name RFA who can't pull off a Matthews, would be foolish not to bridge. Rantanen should take a bridge deal, if he gives us UFA years, that would be dope, but that would doing the Avs a favor at his own expense. If Rantanen wants to pull a MacKinnon, that would just be too good to be true, he ain't that dumb. MacKinnon was coming off two down years from his rookie season, Rantanen just had back to back career years where put up over a point per game, it would insane for him to follow MacKinnon's lead and sign away some UFA years coming off an ELC. Edited July 16, 2019 by Yzermandius19
Dougie93 Posted July 16, 2019 Report Posted July 16, 2019 1 minute ago, Yzermandius19 said: He'd rather bridge for three than sign for six, and then when the three year bridge is up, sign a two year bridge to take him to UFA. Whatever, I just don't see Dubas caving on what Marner wants, if Dubas was going to, it would be done, so Marner is holding out with no leverage, basically refusing to play, if he's not signed by training camp, he's on the trade block by default, although you don't trade him until you get the exact players you want, if you don't have the trade you want, you let Marner and his invasive hockey parent sit and rot until you do, however long that takes, if it takes until next summer, oh well, shit happens, it's all on Marner, that's up to him, but if so, I disavow him as being the one who blew it up when there were multiple fair deals tabled which he simply refused to sign.
Yzermandius19 Posted July 16, 2019 Report Posted July 16, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: Whatever, I just don't see Dubas caving on what Marner wants, if Dubas was going to, it would be done, so Marner is holding out with no leverage, basically refusing to play, if he's not signed by training camp, he's on the trade block by default, although you don't trade him until you get the exact players you want, if you don't have the trade you want, you let Marner and his invasive hockey parent sit and rot until you do, however long that takes, if it takes until next summer, oh well, shit happens, it's all on Marner, that's up to him, but if so, I disavow him as being the one who blew it up when there were multiple fair deals tabled which he simply refused to sign. I'd blame Dubas for not caving to Marner, and instead caving to the hockey media and a fan base, that chronically pressures the team to run young stars out of town to cling to aging veterans instead. Giving Marner a five-year deal instead of three or six should not be a hill worth dying on. Edited July 16, 2019 by Yzermandius19
Dougie93 Posted July 16, 2019 Report Posted July 16, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: I'd blame Dubas for not caving to Marner, and instead caving to hockey media and a fan base that chronically drives young stars out of town to cling to aging veterans instead. Dubas has by all reports tabled multiple deals which are completely fair and Marner is refusing to sign because he wants one thing and he's not prepared to budge. No wriggle room from Marner, he has to have the Matthews contract exactly or else, is Marner blowing it up, Dubas is being reasonable, Marner is not. Edited July 16, 2019 by Dougie93
Yzermandius19 Posted July 16, 2019 Report Posted July 16, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: Dubas has by all reports tabled multiple deals which are completely fair and Marner is refusing to sign because he wants one thing and he's not prepared to budge. No wriggle room Marner has to have the Matthews contract exactly or else, if Marner blowing it up, Dubas is being reasonable, Marner is not. I don't think the deals are fair. I think giving him five years isn't that big of a deal, and the Leafs refusing to budge on it, only makes sense if Marner will cave before the season, and is an epic mistake if he doesn't. If Rantanen will only sign a five year deal, I have no problem giving it to him, I'd like a longer deal optimally, and would prefer a cheaper bridge to signing him right to UFA, but I don't hate the term so much it's a dealbreaker. The Leafs shouldn't either in Marner's case, especially when you're cool with six, how is five so much worse that he needs to be run out of town? That makes no f*cking sense. Edited July 16, 2019 by Yzermandius19
Dougie93 Posted July 16, 2019 Report Posted July 16, 2019 Just now, Yzermandius19 said: I don't think the deals are fair. I think giving him five years isn't that big of a deal, and the Leafs refusing to budge on it, only makes sense if Marner will cave before the season, and is an epic mistake if he doesn't. He turned down 7 x 12.5, if he's not taking that, let him sit till he rots.
Yzermandius19 Posted July 16, 2019 Report Posted July 16, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: He turned down 7 x 12.5, if he's not taking that, let him sit till he rots. That's because he won't sign away UFA years, nor should he. MacKinnon made that mistake coming out of his ELC, and got burned hard for it, why is Marner a d*uche for not wanting that to happen to him? What makes six so much more palatable than five, that taking six is "glad to have you aboard" and taking five is "sit til you rot f*gg*t"? Your line in the sand makes no sense, except to stick it to Marner for wanting to make the deal that is in his best interests. No big name RFA should budge, too many guys have signed away UFA years and because of rising salary cap are hugely underpaid now, for any good agent to allow that to happen to their guys. It's career mismanagement to sign away UFA years for big names in today's NHL. Edited July 16, 2019 by Yzermandius19
Dougie93 Posted July 16, 2019 Report Posted July 16, 2019 1 minute ago, Yzermandius19 said: That's because he won't sign away UFA years, nor should he. What makes six so much more palatable than five, that taking six is "glad to have you aboard" and taking five is "sit til you rot f*gg*t"? Your line in the sand makes no sense, except to stick to Marner for making the deal that is in his best interests. Marner is the one with the line in the sand, I don't think it makes that much of a difference the way the league is now, you can win without Marner, so I'm simply prepared to move on if Marner is not willing to sign.
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