Dougie93 Posted July 6, 2019 Report Posted July 6, 2019 1 minute ago, Yzermandius19 said: He'll cut back more of the third lines ice time, and only a little of top lines, but combined that could net him a minute or two of extra ice time, he ain't going to play 20 minutes a night or anything, unless MacKinnon gets hurt. Oh I am factoring in that Kadri will bounce back, he'd better bounce back or the fans in Colorado will be calling for Joe's head, it's not like most fans in Colorado are happy about this trade, it's all negative from Avs fans as far as I can see, but I don't think he's bouncing back to 30 goals and 60 points, not without Marner, it was all Marner, Kadri was putting up Kerfoot numbers before he played with Marner, and he was putting up Kerfoot numbers after, Kadri is a glorified Kerfoot if he's not getting 1C icetime with Marner, which is how Babs was deploying him before Tavares arrived.
Dougie93 Posted July 6, 2019 Report Posted July 6, 2019 (edited) See the thing about Kadri is that the Leafs needed him to produce as a 3C, that was the only way Kadri was worth it, because when you're going up against a one-two like Stammer and Point, Kadri is not good enough, Point is way better, so when Kadri showed that he couldn't really do it unless Marner was carrying him, Dubas was right to get rid of him ASAP, because Kadri is only an overmatch at 3C, at 2C Kadri is more likely to be overmatched. Plus he's slow, he's lost a step already, and he's an undisciplined hot head who is a heat score to get big time suspensions going forward. He's a notorious repeat offender, they are lying in wait to suspend him again and his next one is going to be a doozy. And he wll burn you, he will swear up and down that he's learned his lesson, but he just can't help himself, he's too easy to provoke. Other teams know what Boston knows, Kadri can't help but take the bait, I mean, DeBrusk was laughing at him, it all went to plan for DeBrusk, Kadri is an easy mark. Edited July 6, 2019 by Dougie93
Yzermandius19 Posted July 6, 2019 Report Posted July 6, 2019 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: See the thing about Kadri is that the Leafs needed him to produce as a 3C, that was the only way Kadri was worth it, because when you're going up against a one-two like Stammer and Point, Kadri is not good enough, Point is way better, so when Kadri showed that he couldn't really do it unless Marner was carrying him, Dubas was right to get rid of him ASAP, because Kadri is only an overmatch at 3C, at 2C Kadri is more likely to be overmatched. Plus he's slow, he's lost a step already, and he's an undisciplined hot head who is a heat score to get big time suspensions going forward. He's a notorious repeat offender, they are lying in wait to suspend him again and his next one is going to be a doozy. And he wll burn you, he will swear up and down that he's learned his lesson, but he just can't help himself, he's too easy to provoke. Other teams know what Boston knows, Kadri can't help but take the bait, I mean, DeBrusk was laughing at him, it all went to plan for DeBrusk, Kadri is an easy mark. True Kadri can be overmatched at 2C, especially against teams with a sweet one-two punch, like the Bolts, Leafs and Pens, but more often than not, he's the superior 2C. He is a hothead who the NHL loves to over punish, it's true, but the juice is worth the squeeze for the Avs, even though it wasn't for the Leafs. Kadri is still better than Kerfoot even when they produce at a similar rate, and the Avs need the goals. Kadri shoots the puck, Kerfoot does not, simple as that. Kerfoot is a better fit on the Leafs and is a little cheaper, but the extra $1 million in cap hit is something the Avs are more than willing to pay for the extra goals. Kerfoot ain't much of a PP guy himself, because when he's on the ice, the defense gives him shooting lanes and shuts down the passing lanes knowing he's not going to shoot, it lets them cheat reliably without getting burned very often. Edited July 6, 2019 by Yzermandius19
Dougie93 Posted July 6, 2019 Report Posted July 6, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: True Kadri can be overmatched at 2C, especially against teams with a sweet one-two punch, like the Bolts, Leafs and Pens, but more often than not, he's the superior 2C. He is a hothead who the NHL loves to over punish, it's true, but the juice is worth the squeeze for the Avs, even though it wasn't for the Leafs. I think the Avs can win the Cup now, and so long as Kadri doesn't lose his shit, I think he can be a big time contributor, the problem is, I think he will lose his shit again, the Leopard can't change his spots, other teams are going to specifically target Kadri for provocation, and Kadri will take the bait. Like I say, the League is after him, just on him being such a heat score it's worth the Leafs moving on from him, because he is gonna get suspended for far less than what other players get suspended for, for much longer, it's not going to take that much, he's radioactive at this point. Edited July 6, 2019 by Dougie93
Yzermandius19 Posted July 6, 2019 Report Posted July 6, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: I think the Avs can win the Cup now, and so long as Kadri doesn't lose his shit, I think he can be a big time contributor, the problem is, I think he will lose his shit again, the Leopard can't change his spots, other teams are going to specifically target Kadri for provocation, and Kadri will take the bait. Maybe, but he's much easier to provoke when playing the Bruins than any other team, Kadri might take a dumb penalty against other teams, but might not go so far as to get suspended in the playoffs when not playing the Bruins. Ever since that Game 7 comeback, I think the Bruins being in his head is a big part of why he gets those playoff suspensions, he played pretty good against Washington three years ago without doing anything that stupid, IIRC. Edited July 6, 2019 by Yzermandius19
Dougie93 Posted July 6, 2019 Report Posted July 6, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: Maybe, but he's much easier to provoke when playing the Bruins than any other team, Kadri might take a dumb penalty against other teams, but might not go so far as to get suspended in the playoffs when not playing the Bruins. Maybe, but I think you got some teams out there in the West who are even meaner than the Bruins, that's another concern I would have with Kadri btw, the West is much faster and more north south, and that's not good for Kadri, he's an East-West Eastern Conference player, I'd be concerned about his converting to the Western style, it's heavier, faster and meaner out West. But like, Ryan Reaves can't get Kadri to lose his shit like DeBrusk did? Pretty sure he can, because Kadri has always been like this, he was like this in junior, he has never been able to control himself, he's always been a hothead easy mark and diver who annoys the refs into not giving him the calls. And nobody is scared of him, the rest of the league just thinks he's a rodeo clown, and they are right. Edited July 6, 2019 by Dougie93
Yzermandius19 Posted July 6, 2019 Report Posted July 6, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: Maybe, but I think you got some teams out there in the West who are even meaner than the Bruins, that's another concern I would have with Kadri btw, the West is much faster and more north south, and that's not good for Kadri, he's an East-West Eastern Conference player, I'd be concerned about his converting to the Western style, it's heavier, faster and meaner out West. Yeah, might take a little time to adapt to that and I am a little worried about him being hothead. Putting Rantanen on his wing could help him get going when the Avs break up the top line, which they do quite often, Bednar is like Cassidy when it comes to that, especially when the top line doesn't have it's mojo and needs a shake up. So if he needs a Marner like playmaker to really get going, Rantanen can do that, at least on a temporary basis every now and then. Edited July 6, 2019 by Yzermandius19
Dougie93 Posted July 6, 2019 Report Posted July 6, 2019 1 minute ago, Yzermandius19 said: Yeah, might take a little time to adapt to that and I am a little worried about him being hothead. Putting Rantanen on his wing could help him get going when the Avs break up the top line, which they do quite often, Bednar is like Cassidy when it comes to that. Yeah, Rants could carry him, but I'd be loathe to have to take Rants away from Big Mac in order to prop up Kadri, that makes Kadri a burden not a boon.
Yzermandius19 Posted July 6, 2019 Report Posted July 6, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: Yeah, Rants could carry him, but I'd be loathe to have to take Rants away from Big Mac in order to prop up Kadri, that makes Kadri a burden not a boon. Bednar won't do it long term, think Bruce Cassidy moving Pastrnak off the Bergeron line, only to put them back together. In the playoffs, both MacKinnon and Rantanen did just fine producing when they were broken up, it's a good plan B when the top line isn't dominating. Now when the Avs do it, Rantanen or Landeskog will be playing with a better second line, so should be even more effective change up going forward, Kadri will be a boon when they do it. Bednar won't do it just to get Kadri going, he'll do it to get MacKinnon and Rantanen going. Edited July 6, 2019 by Yzermandius19
Dougie93 Posted July 6, 2019 Report Posted July 6, 2019 Just now, Yzermandius19 said: Bednar won't do it long term, think Bruce Cassidy moving Pastrnak off the Bergeron line, only to put them back together. If Bednar has to keep moving Rants down to prop Kadri up, then the Avs haven't actually solved the problem, for Kadri to be worth it, he has to carry his own water. This is why I'm happy to be rid of him, like we've been saying for awhile now, the Leafs needed to get rid of Kadri before the wheels fall completely off, and I think that has already happened. It's not that he's completely useless, I just don't think he's a net benefit, I think net-net, when you add the hothead idiocy, Kadri is a burden not a boon.
Yzermandius19 Posted July 6, 2019 Report Posted July 6, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: If Bednar has to keep moving Rants down to prop Kadri up, then the Avs haven't actually solved the problem, for Kadri to be worth it, he has to carry his own water. This is why I'm happy to be rid of him, like we've been saying for awhile now, the Leafs needed to get rid of Kadri before the wheels fall completely off, and I think that has already happened. It's not that he's completely useless, I just don't think he's a net benefit, I think net-net, when you add the hothead idiocy, Kadri is a burden not a boon. To the Leafs maybe, like I say, Bednar isn't going to break up the top line just to get Kadri going, he does it to get MacKinnon and Rantanen going, then he puts them back together. He did it before Kadri, and it worked like a charm, doing it after Kadri, should make it work even better when they mix it up. I don't see Bednar overdoing it just to get Kadri going, that's not his style. Think Bruce Cassidy breaking up the Bergeron line at times, Bednar plays it in a very similar way, he doesn't do it get Krejci going, he does it to get Marchand and Bergeron going. Edited July 6, 2019 by Yzermandius19
Dougie93 Posted July 6, 2019 Report Posted July 6, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: To the Leafs maybe, like I say, Bednar isn't going to break up the top line just to get Kadri going, he does it to get MacKinnon and Rantanen going, then he puts them back together. Well if you're happy, I'm happy, and I am happy to see the back of Kadri, he had honestly become an embarrassment, Dubas can say that the suspension has nothing to do with trading Kadri, but it should have, I defended him the first time, but that second suspension was a firing offense. Edited July 6, 2019 by Dougie93
Yzermandius19 Posted July 6, 2019 Report Posted July 6, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: Well if you're happy, I'm happy, and I am happy to see the back of Kadri, he had honestly become an embarrassment, Dubas can say that the suspension has nothing to do with trading Kadri, but it should have, I defended him the first time, but that second suspension was a firing offense. Meh. Neither suspension should have been more than a game, the NHL are just assholes. It would be nice if he didn't take dumb penalties and league didn't have it out for him, but as far as I'm concerned the NHL is to blame for those ridiculous suspensions. George Parros is a dick, I blame him more than I blame Kadri, that's for sure. Edited July 6, 2019 by Yzermandius19
Dougie93 Posted July 6, 2019 Report Posted July 6, 2019 1 minute ago, Yzermandius19 said: Meh. Neither suspension should have been more than a game, the NHL are just assholes. Nah, Kadri is the asshole for cross checking DeBrusk in the head right in front of the refs when Kadri should have known that was going to be an automatic suspension for the whole series, it was a gutless move too, that's not gritty, that's not tough, that's the epitome of gutless, go ahead and drop the gloves, but blindside crosscheck is pathetic, particularly when DeBrusk hadn't even done anything, it's not like DeBrusk was doing anything other than taking the body and finishing his checks, even by old school rules, Kadri is a rodeo clown.
Yzermandius19 Posted July 6, 2019 Report Posted July 6, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: Nah, Kadri is the asshole for cross checking DeBrusk in the head right in front of the refs when Kadri should have known that was going to be an automatic suspension for the whole series, it was a gutless move too, that's not gritty, that's not tough, that's the epitome of gutless, go ahead and drop the gloves, but blindside crosscheck is pathetic, particularly when DeBrusk hadn't even done anything, it's not like DeBrusk was doing anything other than taking the body and finishing his checks, even by old school rules, Kadri is a rodeo clown. Well sure, dick move by Kadri, total cheap shot, but he shouldn't have gotten suspended more than a game. Parros is a bigger asshole than Kadri, No Hit League bullsh*t. I've seen worse cheap shots get no worse than a game, the league has it out for Kadri, they way overdo it on the repeat offender tip. Like Marchand got 5 regular season games for throwing a deliberate flying elbow to the head that he leaped into, but Kadri gets suspended an entire playoff series for a hit that should have gotten him one game at most, that's some bullsh*t, even the repeat offender thing doesn't account for their Kadri hatred. Edited July 6, 2019 by Yzermandius19
Dougie93 Posted July 6, 2019 Report Posted July 6, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: Well sure, dick move by Kadri, total cheap shot, but he shouldn't have gotten suspended more than a game. Parros is a bigger asshole than Kadri, No Hit League bullsh*t. I've seen worse cheap shots get no worse than a game, the league has it out for Kadri, they way overdo it on the repeat offender tip. All the more reason to be rid of him, like I say, they are still out to make an example of him, just on that alone I don't want him on my team. I'd like to add more toughness to the top six, but Kadri is not actually tough, he doesn't scare anybody, he turtles in any fight, he's just a cheap shot artist who is slowing down fast, and is trying to compensate by way overdoing the crazy madman routine, I mean, he's a laughing stock for other teams, he's an embarrassment, that's why Avs fans are like "WTF?!" They wanted a 2C, sure, but not that Rodeo Clown Kadri. Edited July 6, 2019 by Dougie93
Yzermandius19 Posted July 6, 2019 Report Posted July 6, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: All the more reason to be rid of him, like I say, they are still out to make an example of him, just on that alone I don't want him on my team. I'd like to add more toughness to the top six, but Kadri is not actually tough, he doesn't scare anybody, he turtles in any fight, he's just a cheap shot artist who is slowing down fast, and is trying to compensate by way overdoing the crazy madman routine, I don't think he's slowing down just because he got knocked off Marner's line, you read way too much into a down year that you should have seen coming and explains his drop off in production without him having to lose a step to account for it. By the end of his contract, he might start to slow down, but I think that is more likely after the contract expires than before. Edited July 6, 2019 by Yzermandius19
Dougie93 Posted July 6, 2019 Report Posted July 6, 2019 Just now, Yzermandius19 said: I don't think he's slowing down just because he got knocked off Marner's line, you read way too much into a down year that you should have seen coming. You said yourself he was losing a step, you were the one who started telling me the Leafs needed to get rid of Kadri before I even started thinking about it. Once I saw that you were right, he is losing a step, he is slow, and that is why he's not producing, I've been wanting rid of him ever since.
Yzermandius19 Posted July 6, 2019 Report Posted July 6, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: You said yourself he was losing a step, you were the one who started telling me the Leafs needed to get rid of Kadri before I even started thinking about it. Once I saw that you were right, he is losing a step, he is slow, and that is why he's not producing, I've been wanting rid of him ever since. I never said he was losing a step, I said trade him because he has value as a legit 2C on a sweet contract, that is stuck in a 3C role that he's overpaid and over qualified to fill, and he could net the Leafs a sweet return, which he did. Waiting until his next contract would have netted the Leafs a much smaller return, I didn't say trade Kadri because he's falling off, I said trade him because he has value to other team without two 1C's. He didn't produce because of the reduced role and worse line mates, not because he's slowing down. He'll start slowing down eventually, but like I say, I expect that after his contract expires as opposed to during. Edited July 6, 2019 by Yzermandius19
Dougie93 Posted July 6, 2019 Report Posted July 6, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: I never said he was losing a step, I said trade him because he has value as a legit 2C stuck in a 3C role that he's overpaid to fill. He didn't produce because of the reduced role and worse line mates, not because he's slowing down. He'll start slowing down eventually, but like I say, I expect that after his contract expires as opposed to during. He wasn't even good as a 2C, Matthews was out for more than a month, Kadri got moved up to 2C, but without Marner he couldn't score, it was when Matthews was out that Kadri went twenty games without scoring a goal, as the 2C, and that is actually when the Leafs went off the rails and started to sputter. Edited July 6, 2019 by Dougie93
Yzermandius19 Posted July 6, 2019 Report Posted July 6, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: He wasn't even good as a 2C, Matthews was out for more than a month, Kadri got moved up to 2C, but without Marner he couldn't score, it was when Matthews was out that Kadri went twenty games without scoring a goal, as the 2C, and that is actually when the Leafs went off the rails and started to sputter. Well that's not encouraging, but 20 games is a small sample size, and goal scorers can be streaky, maybe it was just bad timing. Maybe it's all Marner, but if he can score 44 points as a 3C and get almost 20 goals, I feel safe in assuming he can get 50+ as a 2C over a season, and at least 20-25 goals, and wasn't far off those totals even without Marner in an obvious down year he's likely to bounce back from. He's certainly a big upgrade on Soderberg or Kerfoot in those roles, and he's cheaper than the former, and not much more expensive than the latter. Edited July 6, 2019 by Yzermandius19
Dougie93 Posted July 6, 2019 Report Posted July 6, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: Well that's not encouraging, but 20 games is a small sample size, and goal scorers can be streaky, maybe it was just bad timing. Maybe it's all Marner, but if he can score 44 points as a 3C, I feel safe in assuming he can get 50+ as a 2C over a season, and at least 20-25 goals. I think the Avs are going to miss Barrie way more than the Leafs are going to miss Kadri, Toronto media sychopants keep talking about Kadri's "grit", but it's not actually grit, because in fact, Kadri can't take it, gritty players know how to pick their spots and take a number, Kadri melts down and loses his shit just because the other team finishes their checks. I think Byram-Makar Girard-Timmins is gong to be a monster, but not next year, Byram is not playing next year, in the near term, I think the Leafs are slightly better, whereas the Avs are slightly weaker, although in terms of depth of supertar prospects, the Avs have surpassed the Leafs, thanks to Melnyk. Edited July 6, 2019 by Dougie93
Yzermandius19 Posted July 6, 2019 Report Posted July 6, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: I think the Avs are going to miss Barrie way more than the Leafs are going to miss Kadri, Toronto media sychopants keep talking about Kadri's "grit", but it's not actually grit, because in fact, Kadri can't take it, gritty players know how to pick their spots and take a number, Kadri melts down and loses his shit just because the other team finishes their checks. I think Byram-Makar Girard-Timmins is gong to be a monster, but not next year, Byram is not playing next year, in the near term, I think the Leafs are slightly better, whereas the Avs are slightly weaker, although in terms of depth of supertar prospects, the Avs have surpassed the Leafs, thanks to Melnyk. I definitely think The Avs are going to miss Barrie more than the Leafs will miss Kadri, but the Avs would have missed Barrie after one more season anyway, might as well get a return instead of letting him go for nothing, or resigning him and getting less when he's overpaid and trying to move him and having to retain even more salary when they will need it after this year. Especially when he can bring back a legit 2C in return. The Avs fans can shit on this trade all they want, you won't see me doing that unless Kadri under performs and does start to fall off sooner than expected. Edited July 6, 2019 by Yzermandius19
Dougie93 Posted July 6, 2019 Report Posted July 6, 2019 2 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: I definitely think The Avs are going to miss Barrie more than the Leafs will miss Kadri, but the Avs would have missed Barrie after one more season anyway, might as well get a return instead of letting him go for nothing, or resigning him and getting less when he's overpaid and trying to move him. Especially when he can bring back a legit 2C. The more I think about it the more I think the Avs made a mistake, I do think they needed to upgrade at 2C, I don't think Kadri is the right guy, and I don't think the Avs had to pay half of Barrie's cap hit just to get Kadri and Calle Rosen, I think the Avs could have got more for Barrie, or at least a better fit, without having to do the Leafs the favor of paying for a RHD which the Leafs cannot actually afford. Make no mistake, Kadri does not want to be there, no matter what he says, he is already plotting some sort of escape from Denver, he's heartbroken to be exiled from the 6ix, but Denver is not Kadri's style, he'd rather go play for Lamoriello, at least he'd be in the East, and New York is the only substitute for Toronto.
Yzermandius19 Posted July 6, 2019 Report Posted July 6, 2019 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: The more I think about it the more I think the Avs made a mistake, I do think they needed to upgrade at 2C, I don't think Kadri is the right guy, and I don't think the Avs had to pay half of Barrie's cap hit just to get Kadri and Calle Rosen, I think the Avs could have got more for Barrie, or at least a better fit, without having to do the Leafs the favor of paying for a RHD which the Leafs cannot actually afford. Make no mistake, Kadri does not want to be there, no matter what he says, he is already plotting some sort of escape from Denver, he's heartbroken to be exiled from the 6ix, but Denver is not Kadri's style, he'd rather go play for Lamoriello, at least he'd be in the East, and New York is the only substitute for Toronto. I don't think they could have gotten more, what 2C could they gotten with more value than Kadri by trading Barrie and Kerfoot and retaining half of Barrie's salary? They need someone to play 2C until Newhook is ready, and should the Avs turn around and move Kadri his contract is cheaper than most legit 2Cs. I don't think the Avs made a mistake, it's possible, but they might have hit a home run too if he gets back to being a 30 goal scorer. Kadri will allow time for the cake to bake on Newhook, Kadri seems like the perfect stop gap 2C to me given the cheap contract, it's not like they were going to get a 1C in return for a Barrie super rental and Kerfoot, and I'm not seeing the better options than Kadri that teams would be willing to part with and can still yield a good return if the Avs decide to move them. Maybe I'm not looking hard enough though, who are these better 2C options the Avs could have traded for? Edited July 6, 2019 by Yzermandius19
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