49% Canuks Want Petroleum Resources Nationalized

[mirror]

Before the big hike in gas costs at the pumps, already close to 50% of Canadians want our petroleum resources and gas companies nationalized in Canada according to a recent poll by Leger Marketing released tonite. This comes as quite a surprise that there is such a strong a desire by Canadians for nationalization of what is actually an essential product in Canada.

Well, what are you waiting for Mr Martin!

49% want petroleum resources nationalized: Poll

[Montgomery Burns]

Dear Alberta:

It was nice having you in the Confederation. Too bad the Statists messed it up.

[mirror]

First Canadians are prepared to stare down the US over what is obviously the US's illegal behaviour concerning NAFTA's softwood lumber duties ruling, and now they are considering doing the same with the multinational oil companies.

Gutsy group of people these pesky Canadians are turning out to be.

[mirror]

Dear Alberta:

It was nice having you in the Confederation.  Too bad the Statists messed it up. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Statism

Some modern political philosophies hold that individual rights are in no way natural or absolute, but that they are social constructs; in other words, rights and freedoms are not assigned by nature or some other higher authority, but by human society itself. For example, we have the right to life not because there is anything natural about it (after all, nature does not condemn murder), but because the majority of the human population has agreed that it is in their common interest to respect this right. Therefore, individual rights cannot be separated from the public good, since the public good is the reason why individual rights exist in the first place. Some statists would say, therefore, that if one accepts that a state is necessary to protect individual rights, then one also accepts that a state is necessary to carry out other actions for the public good. This is the foundation of the majority of "statist" philosophies.

This is a social democratic political system. Sounds healthy to me.

[B. Max]

First Canadians are prepared to stare down the US over what is obviously the US's illegal behaviour concerning NAFTA's softwood lumber duties ruling, and now they are considering doing the same with the multinational oil companies.

Gutsy group of people these pesky Canadians are turning out to be. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What they are going to get is civil war should any attempt be made to steal alberta's resources or the assets of the oil companies.

[Cartman]

Civil war eh? C'mon. Half the people living here in Calgary came from Ontario or other countries.

[B. Max]

Civil war eh?  C'mon.  Half the people living here in Calgary came from Ontario or other countries.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So what.

[Riverwind]

What they are going to get is civil war should any attempt be made to steal alberta's resources or the assets of the oil companies.

In the US (and in virtually every other country on the planet) those resources belong to the entire country not individual states. Alberta is lucky it belongs to Canada where it is entitled to collect revenues on those resources.

That said, I would not take that poll seriously. Asking people who just paid 1.20/liter for a fillup if they think oil companies should be nationalised is a lot like asking someone who was just mugged if they think muggers should get the death penalty.

Once people get used to the new high prices this feeling will subside.

[mirror]

You are whistling Dixie folks, Why are you downplaying this? There is a lot more support for nationalization that you realize. Take a gander so far!

Yes for both [ 3 ] [42.86%]

Yes for petroleum resources [ 0 ] [0.00%]

Yes for gas companies [ 0 ] [0.00%]

No for petroleum resources [ 0 ] [0.00%]

No for gas companies [ 1 ] [14.29%]

No for both [ 3 ] [42.86%]

Undecided [ 0 ] [0.00%]

[Black Dog]

The "rational actor" archetype is a myth and nothing demonstrates this more than reaction to high gas prices . People are, by and large, idiots, and their purchasing decisons are more focused on the social status their shiny baubles confer than on their own well-being. In this case, rather than responding by curbing consumption or making intelligent purchasing decisions (I saw two Hummer H2's cruisng the streets today), they demand the government save them from their own stupidity. Albertans are fairly typical in this, whining for tax cuts on gas as they ply the city streets in their SUVs and pickup trucks.

[Riverwind]

You are whistling Dixie folks, Why are you downplaying this? There is a lot more support for nationalization that you realize. Take a gander so far!

MLW web polls are even more suspect that regular polls. Nationalizing oil and gas companies is not only a bad idea politically - it is also a bad idea economically. If the gov't wants to discourage people from making better choices when it comes to energy consumption then it can lower taxes on gas.

[Toro]

The equity market value of the 11 largest Canadian energy companies is $300 billion. If you want to buy those companies, i.e. nationalize them, you'll have to pay a premium over and above the current values. 30% would get the deal done. So, $400 billion to nationalize those companies then. Where are you going to get the money from?

[mirror]

Daer Sparhawk

You are whistling Dixie folks, Why are you downplaying this? There is a lot more support for nationalization that you realize. Take a gander so far!

MLW web polls are even more suspect that regular polls. Nationalizing oil and gas companies is not only a bad idea politically - it is also a bad idea economically. If the gov't wants to discourage people from making better choices when it comes to energy consumption then it can lower taxes on gas.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Of couse they are, as apart from maybe you and a couple of others, there are hardly any Liberals here.

But the Decima Research poll is as scientific as any national political poll we have been exposed to here. 1,500 people surveyed, margin of error + or - 2.6%, 19 times out of 20. Very close to 50% want nationalization, and we don't even know what percentage is opposed so far as those details have not been released. And that ain't whistling Dixie, my friend.

Cheers,

[Riverwind]

Very close to 50% want nationalization, and we don't even know what percentage is opposed so far as those details have not been released. And that ain't whistling Dixie, my friend.

It won't happen unless it is supported by a) Harper or Martin. What Layton thinks on this issue is irrelevant. So, until I hear something from a) or this issue is just whistling dixie.

Aside: What does PetroCanada stand for?

Answer: Pierre Elliot Trudeau Rips Off Canada.

[shoop]

Hmmm, when Decima supplies a national political poll that shows the CPC within striking distance of the Liberals nationally it is a "rogue poll" and not representative of the views of Canadians because it goes against Mirror's political bias.

When the same firm supplies a poll that supports Mirror's views it is accepted without question and a basis to start a discussion.

Weak, very, very weak.

Gotta love the NEP. Still the reason why the Liberal's four Alberta MPs in the 1993 election represents a high point for the party that will not be matched in the foreseeable future.

[B. Max]

The equity market value of the 11 largest Canadian energy companies is $300 billion.  If you want to buy those companies, i.e. nationalize them, you'll have to pay a premium over and above the current values.  30% would get the deal done.  So, $400 billion to nationalize those companies then.  Where are you going to get the money from?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What makes you think they would pay. Although trudeau did buy up the assets of some oil companies to form petro can, in the end all did was help eliminate competition.

[Canuck E Stan]

I would like to see the Pollsters take a poll on nationalizing the Banks. Bet we would almost get the same results.

Some papers are calling it a majority of Canadians wanting to nationalize the oil.I thought a majority was at minimum over 50% plus 1

Canadians favour nationalizing gas

Funny how the media looks at 49% as being a majority of those polled in the case of oil,but in the Quebec referendum 49% wasn't considered "majority" enough.

[Toro]

A few months ago, Martin disposed all the remaining shares the government of Canada held in PetroCan. The government of Canada will not be nationalizing the oil industry.

[August1991]

So much nonsense:

Before the big hike in gas costs at the pumps, already close to 50% of Canadians want our petroleum resources and gas companies nationalized in Canada according to a recent poll by Leger Marketing released tonite.

Well, people don't like paying high prices. Duh. I'm encouraged that about half of Canadians realize that governments have no magic wand and cannot lower prices at will. (About 30 years ago, more Canadians thought otherwise. Only NDP voters still believe governments can solve all our problems.)

In the US (and in virtually every other country on the planet) those resources belong to the entire country not individual states. Alberta is lucky it belongs to Canada where it is entitled to collect revenues on those resources.

Kimmy, I think, noted that oil was discovered near Sarnia in the early 1860s, just prior to Confederation. Upper Canada had no intention of sharing this wealth with the rest of Canada. So, is Alberta lucky? Or is the luck rather ironic? In any case, teh BNA Act also gives the federal governement the right to tax anything for whatever reason.

The "rational actor" archetype is a myth and nothing demonstrates this more than reaction to high gas prices .

I simply doubt that but anyway... You need the money to pay the high prices. Whether people buy expensive stuff because they like it or because they want to show off, they still buy it. (BD, forget high-priced gasoline. There's a Black American Express Card. Mere plastic, and those you choose know you're rich.)

The equity market value of the 11 largest Canadian energy companies is $300 billion.  If you want to buy those companies, i.e. nationalize them, you'll have to pay a premium over and above the current values.  30% would get the deal done.  So, $400 billion to nationalize those companies then.  Where are you going to get the money from?

What makes you think they would pay. Although trudeau did buy up the assets of some oil companies to form petro can, in the end all did was help eliminate competition.

Surprisingly, B.Max is kind of right. Trudeau created a special oil tax to finance the creation of Petro-Canada. ($300 billion is about $10,000 from each Canadian.)

In fact, I care little who "owns" our oil/gas industry. I care who makes decisions about it. If Ottawa gets involved in managing oil/gas, I predict there will be an oil/gas moratorium (cod-style) in about 15 years.

Aside: What does PetroCanada stand for?

Answer: Pierre Elliot Trudeau Rips Off Canada.

Giggle.

[Guest eureka]

When oil was discovered at Petrolis, the wealth, such as it was from a small find, was shared in many ways. It also, if big enough, would have helped offset Quebec's virtual monopoly if excise revenues - the main source of government revenues at the time.

Had there been the varie methods of raising taxes that now exist, I would doubt that Natural Resources would have become a Provincial ownership under the BNA Act.

[feloniusteabag]

If Canada considers nationalizing oil, they should do so with all resources, not just the most lucrative one. However, you can bet that if we did, someone in the US White House would be heading to the basement and dusting off the old 'Canadian Invasion Plans'.

I personally doubt that poll is indicative of the general feelings of even 25% of Canadians, at least the employed ones.

[mirror]

I wonder how many countries at the present time have nationalized oil & gas industries. I have heard that Russia has recently nationalized some of its oil holdings. Venezuela, Libya. Who else?

[Riverwind]

I wonder how many countries at the present time have nationalized oil & gas industries. I have heard that Russia has recently nationalized some of its oil holdings. Venezuela, Libya. Who else?

Most countries (outside of former British colonies) with significant oil reserves have national oil companies that may or may not have a monopoly. Mexico made national control of oil companies a key exclusion in NAFTA.

However, just because other countries do it does not mean it is right.

[mirror]

Nationalization is obviously the correct choice for a lot of people.

If Canada were to nationalize our oil industry how would that hurt the Canadians who work and live in Alberta? The jobs would still be there, and it is not like the oil is going to go anywhere else. It seems like this whole issue is just a tug of war between Ottawa and Alberta governments which really represent the corporate community, and why should the profits on our Canadian resources go to foreign corporations?

[Toro]

I wonder how many countries at the present time have nationalized oil & gas industries. I have heard that Russia has recently nationalized some of its oil holdings. Venezuela, Libya. Who else?

Those countries aren't exactly the types of models Canada should follow.

Over the past few decades, western countries have been selling their energy companies, such as BP, British Gas, Total, Endesa, Eni, PetroFina, Repsol, PetroCanada, etc.