THELIBERAL Posted August 17, 2005 Report Share Posted August 17, 2005 Federal Government surplus bad according to Conservative supporters! WHY? Liberal government!!! Alberta government surplus good! WHY? Conservative government!!! It's called Conservative logic folks and no I don't get it either you'll have to ask a Conservative WHY!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Blue Machine Posted August 17, 2005 Report Share Posted August 17, 2005 I don't think it's the surpluses are bad, it's the way the Liberals get them. They always underestimate the surplus, so when the budget comes around, they have a surprise bigger surplus. They always say theat they are almost out of money in the piggybank, but they are clearly not. That's whats wrong with the Liberals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverwind Posted August 17, 2005 Report Share Posted August 17, 2005 I don't think it's the surpluses are bad, it's the way the Liberals get them. They always underestimate the surplus, so when the budget comes around, they have a surprise bigger surplus. They always say theat they are almost out of money in the piggybank, but they are clearly not. That's whats wrong with the Liberals.We have a political culture in Ottawa that clearly wishes to avoid a deficit at all costs - I believe this to be an extremely good thing. However, the side effect of this healthy attitude is a tendency to over estimate spending and under estimate revenue - this results in year after year of surpluses. These surpluses are not ideal but much preferrable to the alternative where politicians start to think that deficits are acceptable again.You can look at this another way: the bureaucrats in Ottawa are behaving the way they would have to if it was illegal to run a deficit. You can criticize what the Liberals do with the surpluses once they are available but I think it is mistake to criticize the current budgeting process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoop Posted August 17, 2005 Report Share Posted August 17, 2005 We have a political culture in Ottawa that clearly wishes to avoid a deficit at all costs - I believe this to be an extremely good thing. However, the side effect of this healthy attitude is a tendency to over estimate spending and under estimate revenue - this results in year after year of surpluses. These surpluses are not ideal but much preferrable to the alternative where politicians start to think that deficits are acceptable again. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It's pretty irrelevant at this point. Libs have been lowballing income for so long now the market incorporates that into their estimates and know what to expect. The current surplus is so much higher than expected in large part due to the surge in oil. Pretty interesting how PM Dithers thinks he is still fooling Canadians with his lowball estimates. Oh well, at least he has stepped into it big time over Michaelle Jean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck E Stan Posted August 17, 2005 Report Share Posted August 17, 2005 The big factor in all this is not so much about the surlpuses between the Albertans and Ottawa, but what the debt is in each case. Alberta has no debt,thus they truly have a surplus. Ottawa on the other hand has debt totalled around $600 billion.With yearly interest payments on the debt totalling $50 billion how can one say that Ottawa really has a surplus.Apples and Oranges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoop Posted August 17, 2005 Report Share Posted August 17, 2005 Stan, I appreciate your leanings and like another conservative voice on the forum. But please get a grip on macroeconomics. You come across as a NDipper in that last post for your clear lack of understanding of economics. A surplus deals with the revenues versus expenses in a given year. So yes, the Liberals have been running surpluses for quite a while recently. The debt is getting down slowly. Should be paid off a little more quickly, with a few more tax cuts thrown in to boot. The Liberals should present a more accurate surplus forecast for the fiscal year with an updat this fall. Unfortunately, PM Dithers is going to be absorbed with damage control throughout the fall over his hasty choice of Michaelle Jean as GG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck E Stan Posted August 17, 2005 Report Share Posted August 17, 2005 You can talk about deficits rather than debt when refering to surpluses and pretend it's all something different, but the bottom line is there still is debt and it keeps climbing and when that number is being ignored year after year and we see the interest on that debt also rising, our future generations get to repay what our our government today does with our "surpluses".Alberta has no debt,Albertans will reap the rewards of having no debt.When will you own your house if your morgage keeps getting bigger? $50 Billion a year to interest is a waste.Ottawa hasn't a clue how to manage money and apparently cares less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toro Posted August 17, 2005 Report Share Posted August 17, 2005 You come across as a NDipper in that last post for your clear lack of understanding of economics. This would go in my sig if we had them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toro Posted August 17, 2005 Report Share Posted August 17, 2005 Debt in and of itself isn't a bad thing. Corporations use debt all the time. So do people when they buy a house or a car. What matters is what they use if for and its size. Alberta is in a better situation than Canada, but Canada, compared to the rest of the world, is in okay shape. And improving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverwind Posted August 17, 2005 Report Share Posted August 17, 2005 You can talk about deficits rather than debt when refering to surpluses and pretend it's all something different, but the bottom line is there still is debt and it keeps climbing and when that number is being ignored year after year and we see the interest on that debt also risingWhat are you talking about? The debt has been declining ever since the budget went into surplus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted August 17, 2005 Report Share Posted August 17, 2005 Federal Government surplus bad according to Conservative supporters! The surplus exists because the government continues to take too much of people own money. They've been doing this on a regular basis. It's about time they corrected the situation, and returned the excess money back to the tax-paying public. A small surplus is definitely more appealing then a small deficit. However, they (the federal liberals) have been running a rather large surplus for quite a while. It's time to do the right thing. It's time to eliminate the GST. A promise made by them long ago, but never delivered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverwind Posted August 17, 2005 Report Share Posted August 17, 2005 Federal Government surplus bad according to Conservative supporters!It's time to eliminate the GST. A promise made by them long ago, but never delivered.The GST is a good tax. It should stay or be raised. The personal exemption should be raised on income tax if a tax cut is necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted August 17, 2005 Report Share Posted August 17, 2005 The GST is a good tax The GST is a punishing, job-killing, economic-growth slowing tax. It's unbelievably bad and unnecessary. It should be eliminated, and personal income taxes should be reduced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverwind Posted August 17, 2005 Report Share Posted August 17, 2005 The GST is a punishing, job-killing, economic-growth slowing tax. It's unbelievably bad and unnecessary. It should be eliminated, and personal income taxes should be reduced.Hardly. Taxes on income are the job-killers since they reduce the incentive to work and save. Taxes on consumption will reduce consumption, however, they encourage saving which increases investment. The net result is the economy is better off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted August 17, 2005 Report Share Posted August 17, 2005 The net result is the economy is better off. To argue that the economy would be better off with the GST is ridiculous. Taxes, in any form, act like water on fire. The GST is one of the reasons why we look at an 8% unemployment rate, and think that it's good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirror Posted August 17, 2005 Report Share Posted August 17, 2005 I would like to see this surprise surplus applied 100% towards reducing our debt. That way we can keep the already rich, greedy people from stealing more of our money through rigged income tax cuts that screw the poor and the middle classes.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted August 17, 2005 Report Share Posted August 17, 2005 I would like to see this surprise surplus applied 100% towards reducing our debt.That way we can keep the already rich, greedy people from stealing more of our money through rigged income tax cuts that screw the poor and the middle classes.. Oh mirror, you were so close to an intelligence, reasonable response. But then you had to blow it with the usual class warfare garbage. Putting 100% of the surplus into reducing the debt is a very good idea. Personally, I would be in favour of a combination of debt reduction and tax reduction. The rich, "greedy" people don't steal anyone elses money through "rigged" income tax cuts that "screw" the poor and middle class. What really screws the poor and middle class, are ridiculously high income tax rates, and taxes such as the GST. Yes, there are people who are wealthy, but it doesn't necessarily mean they are greedy. Yes there are people who try to cheat on taxes. But they're only trying to keep more of THEIR OWN MONEY. Not anybody elses. Thus, there's no stealing of money from the poor and middle class. However, it is still wrong. But that's part of what happens when the government punishes productivity, punishes success and punishes people with high incomes. In other words, it's policies that people like you champion which lead to this behavior, and then people like you have the nerve to complain about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverwind Posted August 17, 2005 Report Share Posted August 17, 2005 The net result is the economy is better off.To argue that the economy would be better off with the GST is ridiculous. Taxes, in any form, act like water on fire. The GST is one of the reasons why we look at an 8% unemployment rate, and think that it's good.The government needs taxes to operate and any tax will superficially affect the economy if do not take into account the benefits provided by gov't spending.The only debate is about what kind of taxes are necessary. Given a choice between consumption and income taxes, I believe a balance is necessary. Relying to much on one type of tax will damage the economy more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirror Posted August 17, 2005 Report Share Posted August 17, 2005 Actually there are socities in the world that are very egualitarian and they don't have any poverty. That is what Canada needs to be pursuing with government policies, and not the sick policies which lead to extreme poverty such as in the USA. Of course the rich always get rich on the backs of the poor. There is no other way for them to do it. They rig the governments, they rig the tax structures, they rig the laws. At least be honest about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted August 17, 2005 Report Share Posted August 17, 2005 The only debate is about what kind of taxes are necessary. Given a choice between consumption and income taxes, I believe a balance is necessary. Relying to much on one type of tax will damage the economy more.I agree.Of course the rich always get rich on the backs of the poor. There is no other way for them to do itYou seem to be a very bitter person. Your statement is absolutely ridiculous. No, the rich don't ALWAYS get rich on the "backs" of the poor. There are plenty of ways to become wealthy. Mostly through talent and hard work. I'm not sure where you get your information from, I mean, other then marxists/communists.At least be honest about itI really wish you would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Circle Posted August 17, 2005 Report Share Posted August 17, 2005 Federal Government surplus bad according to Conservative supporters!WHY? Liberal government!!! Alberta government surplus good! WHY? Conservative government!!! It's called Conservative logic folks and no I don't get it either you'll have to ask a Conservative WHY!!!! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The Liberals have a surplus so they can buy votes. This next election they have screwed themselves in Quebec, so I assume they will buy votes somewhere else. Maybe head east? I like to know my tax dollars are going to buy votes from people that need the money & the east definitely needs the money! Don't forget to pay your taxes, so the Liberals can gain some seats back east! Do your part to re-elect a minority corrupt Liberal gov't so that the east can have a better Christmas! Don't forget to stuff some cash filled envelopes into the pockets of your faithful Liberal supporters. (for the good of the country!) LOL Welcome to a corrupt Liberal Canada, where the government does not have to be accountable to the people! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirror Posted August 17, 2005 Report Share Posted August 17, 2005 The only debate is about what kind of taxes are necessary. Given a choice between consumption and income taxes, I believe a balance is necessary. Relying to much on one type of tax will damage the economy more.I agree.Of course the rich always get rich on the backs of the poor. There is no other way for them to do itYou seem to be a very bitter person. Your statement is absolutely ridiculous. No, the rich don't ALWAYS get rich on the "backs" of the poor. There are plenty of ways to become wealthy. Mostly through talent and hard work. I'm not sure where you get your information from, I mean, other then marxists/communists.At least be honest about itI really wish you would. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yea, and I suppose Hitler is your God! Get a life! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THELIBERAL Posted August 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2005 RE::These surpluses are not ideal but much preferrable to the alternative where politicians start to think that deficits are acceptable again. You got that right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THELIBERAL Posted August 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2005 RE::Ottawa on the other hand has debt totalled around $600 billion You're 100% sure of that figure are you Stan? Did the Mulroney government help to drive the debt up? Did the Mulroney government pay down any of the debt in the 9 years they were running things? Have the Liberals paid down any of the debt? Time to come clean Stan and answer a few questions! We are all dying to see just how informed you really are on this debt matter! You have the floor sir! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted August 17, 2005 Report Share Posted August 17, 2005 Yea, and I suppose Hitler is your God! What an intelligent argument. It looks as though this thread is a waste of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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