BHS Posted July 30, 2005 Report Posted July 30, 2005 Ask former President George H.W. Bush why he fired Karl Rove? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Okay, you win. Rove is evil and he needs to be put away for a long time. Mosbacher had the goods on him in 1992. Whatever. Quote "And, representing the Slightly Silly Party, Mr. Kevin Phillips Bong." * * * "Er..no. Harper was elected because the people were sick of the other guys and wanted a change. Don't confuse electoral success (which came be attributed to a wide variety of factors) with broad support. That's the surest way to wind up on the sidelines." - Black Dog
BHS Posted July 31, 2005 Report Posted July 31, 2005 It's not a matter of winning a debate point. The point is that the President has surrounded himself with people like Karl Rove, which means he is receiving the worst possible advice - even his father could tell him that. A leader, to succed, must act wisely; and if he is not wise himself, he must have resort to good counsel. Karl Rove should be fired - if anything, for bringing discredit upon the White House - and replaced with a person of proven integrity and ability. The President must have the very best advice - at stake is nothing less than the security of the nation. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Success How are you measuring Bush's success? Let's tally up: -Elected in 2000 -Re-elected in 2004 Foreign: -Two major military campaigns fought and won -Daily progress being made in elminating insurgents in both Afghanistan and Iraq -Peaceful transition to national government in Iraq and first democratic elections in that nation's history -Libya drops its WMD program -Syria out of Lebanon -Palestinian intafada on hold as Israelis move to pull out from Gaza -North Korea back to bargaining table -CAFTA looks like a go National: -Filibuster compromise puts Bush's picks into courts -too many examples of Bush getting his way on controversial legislation to mention You will probably argue that some of these items aren't because of anything Bush did, but I betting the history books are going to credit Bush whether the anti-Bush squadrons approve or not. Discredit You think that a little Democrat-manufactured scandal that isn't going anywhere is going to bring discredit to the President immediately following Bill Clinton, who's entire presidency is defined by oral sex escapades in the Oval Office? Please. Security of the Nation Aren't you the guy posting quotes of Mencken and MacArthur to prove that security issues are the bugbear politicians have chosen to keep the sheeple in line these days? Have you had a sudden change of heart? Quote "And, representing the Slightly Silly Party, Mr. Kevin Phillips Bong." * * * "Er..no. Harper was elected because the people were sick of the other guys and wanted a change. Don't confuse electoral success (which came be attributed to a wide variety of factors) with broad support. That's the surest way to wind up on the sidelines." - Black Dog
BHS Posted July 31, 2005 Report Posted July 31, 2005 “I must own I have such an indifferent opinion of the vulgar that I am ever led to suspect that merit which raises their shout; at least I am certain to find those great, and sometimes good, men who find satisfaction in such acclamations made worse by it; and history has too frequently taught me that the head which has grown giddy with the roar of the million has the very next day been fixed upon a pole.”- Oliver Goldsmith, “The Instability of Popular Favor” _______________ Success is not measured by popular appeal, but by enduring achievement. The war is not won by banners claiming "Mission Accomplished"; nor defeat avoided by declaring "Victory with Honor." <{POST_SNAPBACK}> And as I stated in my previous post, history will look kindly on Bush and all that he has achieved, especially in light of the record of his immediate predecessor. Quote "And, representing the Slightly Silly Party, Mr. Kevin Phillips Bong." * * * "Er..no. Harper was elected because the people were sick of the other guys and wanted a change. Don't confuse electoral success (which came be attributed to a wide variety of factors) with broad support. That's the surest way to wind up on the sidelines." - Black Dog
Shady Posted July 31, 2005 Report Posted July 31, 2005 And as I stated in my previous post, history will look kindly on Bush and all that he has achieved, especially in light of the record of his immediate predecessorExactly! Bush has introduced democracy to a part of the world which otherwise wouldn't have had the chance for self-determination for who knows how many decades longer. History will look very kindly on that fact. Iraq will look much different (for the better) in the coming years. Much similar to that of South Korea. And hopefully, it's a process that will spread through the middle east, as some signs have indicated progress in Egypt, Lebanon, and even Saudi Arabia.As for Bush's immediate predecessor, you're absolutely correct. He shoved aside tough actions and tough decision for pseudo-peace and psuedo-prosperity in the name of politics. In contrast, history will look very unkindly towards those selfish acts. Quote
Shady Posted August 14, 2005 Report Posted August 14, 2005 This is beginning to have to the earmarks of the Nixon "Watergate Scandal" all over it So things are finally beginning to change on the Rove front The tide has turned and it is curtains for Rove Here's an article which explains what has happened and why this is such an nightmare situation for Rove I think Rove is done like dinner The only recollection I have of something unravelling like this is Watergate The noose is tightening Sure sounds like Rove is hooped to me Is the author of this article suggesting that Rove might be executed? Wow, I don't think I've ever seen somebody so wrong before. And in just one thread! Ouch. Quote
theloniusfleabag Posted August 17, 2005 Report Posted August 17, 2005 Dear Shady, I think the 'wait and see' attitude has hit this one. Depending on the timing, Rove may just be an ordinary asshole, rather than a criminal. Novak should be going to jail, regardless of his sources, and Rove's case is largely dependent on whether he approved of the leak beforehand (thereby fomenting it) or after the fact. Quote Would the Special Olympics Committee disqualify kids born with flippers from the swimming events?
BHS Posted August 17, 2005 Report Posted August 17, 2005 Dear Shady,I think the 'wait and see' attitude has hit this one. Depending on the timing, Rove may just be an ordinary asshole, rather than a criminal. Novak should be going to jail, regardless of his sources, and Rove's case is largely dependent on whether he approved of the leak beforehand (thereby fomenting it) or after the fact. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Did Novak refuse to devulge his source? That's the only reason anyone has gone to jail for in this matter, and I expect it's the only reason anyone ever will. Quote "And, representing the Slightly Silly Party, Mr. Kevin Phillips Bong." * * * "Er..no. Harper was elected because the people were sick of the other guys and wanted a change. Don't confuse electoral success (which came be attributed to a wide variety of factors) with broad support. That's the surest way to wind up on the sidelines." - Black Dog
theloniusfleabag Posted August 17, 2005 Report Posted August 17, 2005 Dear BHS, I am unsure how to create links to other threads, so I'll just paste some info I previously posted... Again, back to Novak and Plame. Evidently Novak was the first person to print the claim that Plame was a CIA operative in the media, and his ludicrous defense at the time was the CIA's NO was "a soft no, not a hard no". As to BHS's claim that no crime was committed, even the CIA (along with almost everyone else) seems to think that there was. The following is an excerpt from an official letter from thr Director of Congressional Affairs, Stanley Moscowitz, to The Honorable John Conyers, Ranking Democratic Member, Committee on the Judiciary, House of representatives (30 January 2004) (this is taken from the book "The Politics of Truth", by Ambassador Joseph Wilson, (2004) QUOTE ...By letter dated 16 September 2003, and in accordance with standard practice in such matters, the CIA informed the DoJ [Department of Justice] that the agency's investigation in this matter was complete, provided DoJ a memorandum setting forth the results of that investigation, and requested that the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) undertake a criminal investigation of this matter. In a 29 September 2003 letter, DoJ advised that the Counterespionage Section of the DoJ had requested that the FBI initiate an investigation of this matter. Wilson claims that Novak spoke to an aquaintance of Wilson's in Washington, and when asked what Novak thought of the uranium contoversy and of Wilson, Novak replied: "Wilson's an asshole. The CIA sent him. His wife, Valerie, works for the CIA. The's a weapons of mass destruction specialist. She sent him". When Wilson confronted Novak, Novak apologized (for telling a complete stranger his suspicions about Plame) and asked Wilson to confirm what he had heard from a CIA source. Later, Novak claims to have misspoken, and said it was 'two senior administration officials' that leaked the info. So, according to the CIA, a crime worthy of FBI involvement took place. I would expect you are right, though, I doubt anyone will go to jail. Quote Would the Special Olympics Committee disqualify kids born with flippers from the swimming events?
mirror Posted August 26, 2005 Author Report Posted August 26, 2005 A CIA Cover Blown, a White House Exposed This is incredible. a 9-page article in the LA Times. I am thinking if the Democrats got control of Congress in 2006, they might be able to impeach Bush before his term of office runs out. Quote
Technocrat Posted August 26, 2005 Report Posted August 26, 2005 SuccessHow are you measuring Bush's success? Let's tally up: -Elected in 2000 -Re-elected in 2004 Foreign: -Two major military campaigns fought and won -Daily progress being made in elminating insurgents in both Afghanistan and Iraq -Peaceful transition to national government in Iraq and first democratic elections in that nation's history -Libya drops its WMD program -Syria out of Lebanon -Palestinian intafada on hold as Israelis move to pull out from Gaza -North Korea back to bargaining table -CAFTA looks like a go National: -Filibuster compromise puts Bush's picks into courts -too many examples of Bush getting his way on controversial legislation to mention Ummm yeah about those "Succesfull" military campaigns... Afghanistan is still a friggin mess... NATO doesn't even come close to controlling the country, warlords do. Not much of a 'success'. Iraq?!?! are you freakin serious explain how the US has won? They haven't won a damn thing, other then a massive bill for the american taxpayer... victory for the IRS I guess . The "insurgency" which is not really an insurgency at all as it mainly consists of iraqis is hardly getting better, more US troops and Iraqis die every day, and little to no progress has been made. As far as the other points Dubya hardly had a hand in any of those things. I can hardly imagine how the history books will view a president that deceived a nation into going to war and took one of the largest surplusses in history to the largest deficit in history... generally those aren't viewed as presidential successes. Quote
Shady Posted August 27, 2005 Report Posted August 27, 2005 Afghanistan is still a friggin mess... Women can vote and are elected to office. Girls can attend school and be educated. What is it with the left and pessimism? Did you expect Afghanistan to be transformed into a first world country in 2 years? Please try and be realistic. I understand you people hate President Bush. It doesn't mean you have to hate anything associated with him. Iraq?!?! are you freakin serious explain how the US has won? Well, Saddam was ousted. The Baath party toppled. Iraqi's have participated in a free election. Iraq is soon to have a constitution guaranteeing rights and freedoms. Certainly the terrorists haven't won, except with the left and the mainstream media. The "insurgency" which is not really an insurgency at all Well, you're right about that. An insurgency would suggest that it comes from within. Everyone knows the insurgency is really fuelled by Syria and Iran in an effort to derail a free and democratic Iraq. Quote
Black Dog Posted August 29, 2005 Report Posted August 29, 2005 Women can vote and are elected to office. Girls can attend school and be educated. What is it with the left and pessimism? Did you expect Afghanistan to be transformed into a first world country in 2 years? Please try and be realistic. I understand you people hate President Bush. It doesn't mean you have to hate anything associated with him. Because we recognize certain realities. Like the fact that a centuries-old patriarchal culture won't suddenly change because a piece of paper says women have rights. Afghanistan is still controlled by men with guns, something western leaders and the media seem to have forgotten. Well, Saddam was ousted. The Baath party toppled. Iraqi's have participated in a free election. Iraq is soon to have a constitution guaranteeing rights and freedoms. Certainly the terrorists haven't won, except with the left and the mainstream media. What constiution? the one being hailed by Iran and its fundamentalist allies in Iraq and panned by everyone else? The constitution that looks like its going to be a catalyst for a escalation of the simmering civil war? That constitution? Quote
Shady Posted August 30, 2005 Report Posted August 30, 2005 Because we recognize certain realities. Like the fact that a centuries-old patriarchal culture won't suddenly change because a piece of paper says women have rights. Afghanistan is still controlled by men with guns, something western leaders and the media seem to have forgotten You're right, it won't suddenly change. No one has stated that premise. Change is a slow and steady progression. And now, Afghanistan is in a position to allow that type of change to occur. However, the fact is, women can vote and be elected to office. Girls can attend school for the first time in a long time. And no matter what left-wing rantings you throw at me, you cannot change those facts. What constiution? the one being hailed by Iran and its fundamentalist allies in Iraq and panned by everyone else? The constitution that looks like its going to be a catalyst for a escalation of the simmering civil war? That constitution?No, not the one being hailed by Iran. The constitution that guarantees minority rights. That guarantees a minimum of 25% of Iraq's government be populated by women. That also guarantees human rights and freedoms. That constitution. I actually feel sorry for you. Your hatred of anything Bush, and your poisoning pessimism, isn't allowing you to think straight. Quote
Black Dog Posted August 30, 2005 Report Posted August 30, 2005 You're right, it won't suddenly change. No one has stated that premise. Change is a slow and steady progression. And now, Afghanistan is in a position to allow that type of change to occur. However, the fact is, women can vote and be elected to office. Girls can attend school for the first time in a long time. And no matter what left-wing rantings you throw at me, you cannot change those facts. You're missing the point: despite these paper acheivments, the situation in Afghanistan, especially for women, is no better than under the Taliban. Women can run for office...but are threatened with death if they do. Girls can go to school...but those schools are targets for violence and vandalism. Kidnappings, rape and sexual violence is routine. Afghan women are under attack. These are the facts and reality-impaired proclimations of success do little to alleviate the situation. What they do is allow people who didn't give the plight of Afghanistan's women even a passing thought before 9-11 to feel good about themselves for having backed a policy that has made little difference to Afghan society today. No, not the one being hailed by Iran. Senior Iran cleric hails “Islamic state of Iraq” I'm positive that's the same constitution. The constitution that guarantees minority rights. That guarantees a minimum of 25% of Iraq's government be populated by women. That also guarantees human rights and freedoms. That constitution. Yeah: the constitution that declares Islam as the sole source of law, thus guaranteeing "rights and freedoms" are subordinate to the primary position given to Islamic law. What's more, the only minorities ensured specific rights are Kurds and speakers of the Syriac language. actually feel sorry for you. Your hatred of anything Bush, and your poisoning pessimism, isn't allowing you to think straight. Me, I'm not sure what your deal is. Maybe you haven't read a newspaper in three or four years. Maybe you only seek out information guaranteed not to upset your pre-existing worldview (reality be damned!). Maybe you're just afraid that if you don't continue to hold the partisan line in the face of a deteriorating situation, Republican Jesus will smite you down. Whatever. But given the avalanche of bad news emanating from Iraq from people on the scene there, maintaining such blind optimism and conviction is truely a remarkable feat. Come to think of it, with your attitude, you'd make a great Infomation Minister. Quote
Montgomery Burns Posted August 30, 2005 Report Posted August 30, 2005 For a couple of years now investigators have been trying to discover who leaked the information to reporters (Novak, etc) about Valerie Plame being a covert CIA operative, which is a criminal activity in the US. Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald is now insisting that Time magazine reporter Matthew Cooper testify before the grand jury. This is beginning to have to the earmarks of the Nixon "Watergate Scandal" all over it. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Valerie Wilson hasn't been a covert CIA operative for 6 years. Anyone could see her as she drove to work - between photo shoots for Vanity Fair. She has been working at a desk job for years. This is just another liberal wet dream. Quote "Anybody who doesn't appreciate what America has done, and President Bush, let them go to hell!" -- Iraqi Betty Dawisha, after dropping her vote in the ballot box, wields The Cluebat™ to the anti-liberty crowd on Dec 13, 2005. "Call me crazy, but I think they [iraqis] were happy with thier [sic] dumpy homes before the USA levelled so many of them" -- Gerryhatrick, Feb 3, 2006.
feloniusteabag Posted August 30, 2005 Report Posted August 30, 2005 Dear Montgomery Burns, Valerie Wilson hasn't been a covert CIA operative for 6 years. Anyone could see her as she drove to work - between photo shoots for Vanity Fair. She has been working at a desk job for years.This is just another liberal wet dream. Speaking of being behind the times, perhaps you could have read some of the thread, rather than quoting a months-old post. The CIA deemed the leak 'criminal' enough to ask the FBI to begin official procedings after their own investigation. Quote
Montgomery Burns Posted August 30, 2005 Report Posted August 30, 2005 Dear Montgomery Burns,Valerie Wilson hasn't been a covert CIA operative for 6 years. Anyone could see her as she drove to work - between photo shoots for Vanity Fair. She has been working at a desk job for years.This is just another liberal wet dream. Speaking of being behind the times, perhaps you could have read some of the thread, rather than quoting a months-old post. The CIA deemed the leak 'criminal' enough to ask the FBI to begin official procedings after their own investigation. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The CIA asked the FBI to investigate the "possible" leak. The fact is that Valerie Wilson was a desk jockey for the past few years and even posed for a Vanity Fair shoot. Get with the times, indeed. Quote "Anybody who doesn't appreciate what America has done, and President Bush, let them go to hell!" -- Iraqi Betty Dawisha, after dropping her vote in the ballot box, wields The Cluebat™ to the anti-liberty crowd on Dec 13, 2005. "Call me crazy, but I think they [iraqis] were happy with thier [sic] dumpy homes before the USA levelled so many of them" -- Gerryhatrick, Feb 3, 2006.
mirror Posted September 10, 2005 Author Report Posted September 10, 2005 Texas Fires Lawyer After Story on Rove Gawd. If it's not one thing, it's another. Quote
theloniusfleabag Posted September 30, 2005 Report Posted September 30, 2005 Here is an interesting news bit... http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayArticle...n=theworld&col= Miller agrees to testify in leak investigation(AP) 30 September 2005 WASHINGTON - After nearly three months behind bars, New York Times reporter Judith Miller was released after agreeing to testify about the Bush administration’s disclosure of a covert CIA officer’s identity. Miller left the federal detention center in Alexandria, Virginia, on Thursday after reaching an agreement with Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald. She will appear Friday morning before a grand jury investigating the case. “My source has now voluntarily and personally released me from my promise of confidentiality regarding our conversations,” Miller said in a statement. Her source was Vice President Dick Cheney’s chief of staff, I. Lewis “Scooter” Libby, reported The Times, which supported her contention that her source should be protected. Quote Would the Special Olympics Committee disqualify kids born with flippers from the swimming events?
Montgomery Burns Posted October 5, 2005 Report Posted October 5, 2005 Poll of 3625 Iraqis: 79% in favor of draft constitution and 8% opposed Recent polling shows widespread support for a new Iraqi constitution to be voted on Oct. 15, even in strongholds of Sunni Arab groups that are fighting to derail the charter. Mehdi Hafedh, director of the Iraqi Center for Development and International Dialogue, said his latest survey showed that Iraqis are exhausted by the continuing violence and that most are hoping the new constitution will be a first step toward the restoration of order. "The Iraqi people want to finalize the political process as soon as possible. ... They want to establish a normal government and institutions," Mr. Hafedh said yesterday, adding: "Iraqis want this situation to end. It is untenable." The poll of 3,625 Iraqis, conducted Sept. 14 to 19, showed 79 percent in favor of the draft constitution and 8 percent opposed. The remainder did not respond. A high percentage of respondents said they intended to vote and that the level of violence likely would be reduced after the referendum. ...Although support for the constitution was particularly high in the northern Kurdish areas and southern regions dominated by Shi'ites, Mr. Hafedh said it topped 50 percent even in central provinces known as the heartland of Sunni unrest -- a sign, he said, that the Sunni-Shi'ite split is not as wide as many fear. "This is exaggerated by political elites who are seeking power and by Western media and analysts," Mr. Hafedh said. 3625 is a large number of people to poll. The poll also gains credibility because it is reasonable to assume that your typical Iraqi is exhausted by the violent attacks upon them by the Islamofascists and would hope that a "Yes" for the constitution sends a message to the terrorists and the world. Given that it will take 3 of Iraq's 19 provinces voting against the Constitution by a 2/3rds margin to knock it down, it seems highly likely that the Constitution is going to be approved by the Iraqi people. Quote "Anybody who doesn't appreciate what America has done, and President Bush, let them go to hell!" -- Iraqi Betty Dawisha, after dropping her vote in the ballot box, wields The Cluebat™ to the anti-liberty crowd on Dec 13, 2005. "Call me crazy, but I think they [iraqis] were happy with thier [sic] dumpy homes before the USA levelled so many of them" -- Gerryhatrick, Feb 3, 2006.
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