Harper

[ruski_canuk]

OK - The only substantive thing I can trace which hurts Harper is what he said about the maritimes and it being a culture of defeat. Personally, I agree with him that, historically, the Canadian government has fostered that culture not only there but in Quebec and on native reserves as well. All the same, it was a strike against him in our public which prefers rhetoric over reality. (a concept he better figure out)

Anyways, before I hear the usual spawn of Satan and reincarnation of Adolf Hitler BS, please, in respect to your own intelligence, answer the following question with supporting links or sources.

What is it that is so scary about Stephen Harper?

again, details and facts please. (It might require some real thought and reflection, don't hurt yourselves)

[newbie]

I'll bite, being a newbie here. My impressions of him are relatively unchanged. He comes across as being a very angry man. I guess too is his total unwillingness to cooperate even a little bit with the current Government, given their status as a minority one. He tars ALL Liberals in the government as being corrupt and I find that quite unfair. He seems to be impatient re not waiting for the Gomery Commission's report. He bases a lot of his animosity toward the Liberals on testimony in the on-going investigation, most of it unsubstantiated, and some of it given by persons facing fraud charges.

I think the scary part for me is not knowing what he really stands for, besides being against same sex marriage and spending more for the military. The PC website is rather elusive as to what the party is going to do and how they're going to do it if they ever get into power.

I'm sure there will be plenty after me to provide you with ample facts and details, so I'll leave it at that. Sorry for being so general.

[Riverwind]

What is it that is so scary about Stephen Harper?

again, details and facts please.  (It might require some real thought and reflection, don't hurt yourselves)

Every political party has its extremists which have views that are way out of line with what the majority of Canadians want. However, the Liberals over the years have done a reasonable job of keeping them in line by showing leadership. Even though many Liberals voted against the same sex marriage bill, all of the cabinet ministers were told to vote for it and Paul Martin at least tried to persuade his caucus to support it. On the other hand, Harper choose oppose it which may get him votes in Alberta but makes him look like a right wing radical to the rest of the country. The fact that he was willing to expend his political capital on such a irrelevant topic shows very poor judgment in my opinion.

Harper also seems too willing to let the extremists in his party control the agenda. On abortion he says that the CPC would not introduce a bill but he would allow a private member to introduce one. That is a huge red flag - he should be saying that he would actively oppose any attempt to limit a woman's right to abortion from within his caucus. His failure to do so means he either he supports the idea of restricting abortion (which would be the proverbial hidden agenda) or he is not willing to be a leader.

The second issue I have with Harper is his views on taxation. The Republican party in the US has made a mess out of the finances of the country by making rediculous ideology driven tax cuts and then refuse to actually cut expenses because everyone wants the programs that taxes pay for. This philosophy has to be among the most intellectually dishonest philosophies out there. Harper comes across as someone who want to bring this type of economic mismangement to Canada. He creates this impression by:

1) Constantly talking about how we need to have more tax cuts even though our tax rates are not that bad any more.

2) Constantly promising to match every spending commitment the Liberals make.

Harper has to choose 1) or 2) he can't have both. People are smart enough to know this. Furthermore, Harper's personal background make it clear that 1) is his personal preference which leads many people to believe that he is just saying 2) to get elected and then he will slash programs to pay for the tax cuts. The proverbial hidden agenda shows up again.

Regards

[Guest eureka]

You might have better luck wuth the question if you had not supplied part of the answer. Your opening was offensive to Maritimers and Quebeckers and to native Canadians.

You hold similar views to Harper in this and, until Harper understands that oil is not blood, he does not deserve any political office. His pharasaical attitude does no credit to his party. There is much more against Harper than that but it all comes down to his having had the good (economic) fortune not to be born in Eastern Canada.

[PocketRocket]

The only substantive thing I can trace which hurts Harper is what he said about the maritimes and it being a culture of defeat.

What is it that is so scary about Stephen Harper?

On this occasion, and on many others, Harper chose to speak before thinking, causing him to try moderate his comments retrospectively.

What is to make us think he will not also ACT without thinking, as he does in speaking???

I believe the man is intelligent, no question of that, but he is rash. A loose cannon.

[PatM]

The Reform party is simply the Canadian wing of Bush's Repubicans. Reform takes its economic platform from the "Washington Consensus". The reality is Reform wants to hand Canada over to the USA as its 51st state.

Unfortunately for us - Paul Martin wants to do the same thing. This is the aim of his "Deep integration" policy.

The only "good" thing about Martin is he's trying to be sneaky and slip it past everyone before we notice. Harper's Reform party is impatient and wants it done NOW.

[ruski_canuk]

"He comes across as being a very angry man." - I'll agree in the house of commons he does come across as angry. Everywhere else he is collected and seemingly thoughtful. My understanding is that it is tradition in the house of common to fight like children (something I wish Canadian politicians would change) but still it is a fair remark about him.

"His failure to do so means he either he supports the idea of restricting abortion (which would be the proverbial hidden agenda) or he is not willing to be a leader.

"

This is the usual comical stuff I hear. Pro or anti abortion the point is Canadians are divided on the issue (I would say that the majority are for it though). Simply because Harper would allow a private bill to go, something that all leaders should allow instead of effectively running a dictatorship, doesnt mean the bill would be a approved. It is funny that when one "extremist" in the party suggested a bill which would offer free couselling to women considering abortion the anti-responsiblilities in our society nearly had a heart attack. Same kind of dense rejection of any talk about trying to make health care sustainable, possibly through instituting some private care. People's blind unwillingness to discuss issues openly without fear is a mockery of the very word they claim to be. Liberal.

"I guess too is his total unwillingness to cooperate even a little bit with the current Government, given their status as a minority one" Please guys, try to do some research. Harper and his party did something almost totally unprecedent. He supported the budget when it first came out. He objectively looked at it, agreed in principle with it and said he and his party would support it. He withdrew his support not from the budget but from the NDP ammendment to it.

No other comments I heard answered my question with sources and facts because the root of fearmongering is exactly that - without foundation.

[Riverwind]

"  This is the usual comical stuff I hear.  Pro or anti abortion the point is Canadians are divided on the issue (I would say that the majority are for it though).  Simply because Harper would allow a private bill to go, something that all leaders should allow instead of effectively running a dictatorship, doesnt mean the bill would be a approved.  It is funny that when one "extremist" in the party suggested a bill which would

Your question was why Harper is seen as scary: the majority of Canadians find someone who would try to limit access to abortion as scary. Harper is free to advocate changing the laws on abortion but he has to acknowledge that those views hurt his public image. If he does not like that reaction then he need to change his views. Blaming the voter for not agreeing with you is quite childish.

No other comments I heard answered my question with sources and facts because the root of fearmongering is exactly that - without foundation.

Every comment I made quite measured and backed up with details. I don't have time to go and develop a university thesis on why Harper is his own worse enemy - if that is what you are looking for. You did not even address my point on the economic dishonestly of US republicans and how Harper has not made it clear that he would not make the same mistakes if given power.

Regards

[ceemes]

I've met the man.......does the term "Used Car Saleman" ring a bell? I trust the sod about as far as I can toss both him and Doris, I mean Stockwell Day together.

Right wing extremism frightens me equally as much as Left wing extremism. To me, Harper is Bush Lite dressed up in the Maple Leaf and I strongly suspect that he will quite cheerfully toss the Maple Leaf to the ground and don the Stars and Stripes....especially if he can turn a quick buck or two on the deal.

Make no mistake, Harper is not for Canada but for himself and his big money cronies. He amply demonstrated this by jumping into bed with the BQ in a vain attempt to fornicate the entire of Canada.

Sad thing is, I held membership with the PCP and when it was swolled up by the Canadian Reform Alliance Party, hencefore to known as CRAP, I quit. There is no room in the CAC for moderates and small c-Conservative such as myself.

:angry: :angry: :angry:

[newbie]

Interesting website:

http://bloc-harper.com/blocharper/splash.htm

[newbie]

Deleted

[Argus]

You might have better luck wuth the question if you had not supplied part of the answer. Your opening was offensive to Maritimers and Quebeckers and to native Canadians.

True though.

But don't let that stop you from snivelling about it.

[Shakeyhands]

Where are our resident Right Wingers? I'd be interested t hear IMR and Augusts take on this question....

[willy]

Where are our resident Right Wingers?

Harper, good man. Still young and learning. I have seen growth in him over the last few years and at the convention he did a great job. He is handling the presure well and has more good than bad days. I think he is the right guy for the job and will continue to grow into it.

Is that what you wanted to hear Shakeyhands?

[The Terrible Sweal]

OK - The only substantive thing I can trace which hurts Harper is what he said about the maritimes and it being a culture of defeat. 

You overlook firewalls, currying Bush favor, and his incomprehensible positions on SSM.

  What is it that is so scary about Stephen Harper?

Not scary. Just undesireable.

What is undesireable about Harper? His politics.

[willy]

What is undesireable about Harper? His politics.

So how many votes do you think you would get?

[The Terrible Sweal]

What is undesireable about Harper? His politics.

So how many votes do you think you would get?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, that's a 90 degree digression, but an interesting one... look for a new thread on this.

[RightWinger]

Where are our resident Right Wingers you ask? Well, most of them are probably working! Unlike the Liberals & NDP who have union jobs and use company time to post on these forums and boost each others egos!!!

As you can tell by my name, I am a Conservative. I read what you people post here about Stephen Harper and it makes me laugh. You people have no idea why you seem to hate him and spout some bullshit about same sex marriage & abortion. Truth be told, the reason you hate him is because of the image that Liberals put in your mind, by using tax dollars to advertise that very view of a Hitler reincarnate. If you really thought about what Harper stands for, you'd find he has no "hidden agenda", and that he mainly wants to rid Canadians of a Corrupt Liberal government.

The Conservative party has a slightly right wing agenda and wants to make Canada a working country, not a union one, like we have now. What the hell is wrong with that? I believe that unions have their place and keep employers honest, but when people don't work to earn a paycheck, then it has gone too far. Look at our hospitals for example. Have you ever seen a more corrupt place?(Other than the Liberal party)

As far as the same sex legislation, why not let Canadians decide? If it went to a vote, that legislation would be defeated by a large number, yet the bill is sliding through the house. Even Liberal representatives are standing up with letters from their constituents saying, "one man & one women excluding all others", yet these same people, voted in favor of the legislation! How is that for representation??? Good old democracy!

So for you Harper haters, I challenge you to tell me what your Liberal party has done for you. Better yet, tell me what your Prime Minister has done for you? And lets talk about Paul Martin. What is his "hidden agenda"? Other than the fact that he'll do ANYTHING to stay in power, even if it means bribes or cash in small bags!!

Stephen Harper & the Conservative Party.... The only clear alternative!

[I miss Reagan]

Where are our resident Right Wingers?  I'd be interested t hear IMR and Augusts take on this question....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Fear not, Shakey, I am here and will not leave you!

Actually I'm not sure what you want to hear from me. You know how I feel about him. Nevertheless I will oblige. I think Harper is a good man. I honestly think that the press in Canada doesn't like him at all. They've jumped all over the Liberal accuasations of being extreme and having a "hidden agenda". I don't think he's been treated fairly at all. Sometimes they potray him as boring, at other times angry. I'm not sure how he can be both. With respect to abortion, I'm not sure how many times he can say that abortion is simply not on the table before people believe him. With respect to same sex marriage, the population is divided on this issue, there are Liberal MP's who are opposed to it as well. For some reason the press has chosen Harper as the sacrificial goat on this issue. This stuff isn't a huge deal to me though. I'm more concerned about having a leader who is resolute on reforming the Senate, the PMO, and other democratic reforms. I prefer a leader who will do his best to lower taxes and treat our neighbors better.

I think he is genuine and wants a fairer and more prosperous country. That is my opinion. I understand that you and others disagree with me and his opinions. Perhaps most of the country disagrees with me as well. This brings me to separation. I see no good reason for Alberta to remain a part of confederation. I see no good reason, other than oil, for the rest of Canada to want us in confederation.

[RightWinger]

Well said IMR!

www.separationalberta.com

Other than the Conservative Party of Canada & Stephen Harper, it is the only way for Alberta to get a fair shake from these crooked Liberals.

[I miss Reagan]

Well said IMR!

www.separationalberta.com

Other than the Conservative Party of Canada & Stephen Harper, it is the only way for Alberta to get a fair shake from these crooked Liberals.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I haven't looked at their website in a long time. Their Q and A is pretty good, I like it. FAQ They need to change their name. The word 'Separation' is a little too sharp.

The key is getting some solid people involved rather than radicals. I'd like to see Harper go Provincial.

[Riverwind]

Well said IMR!

www.separationalberta.com

Other than the Conservative Party of Canada & Stephen Harper, it is the only way for Alberta to get a fair shake from these crooked Liberals.

Of once you achieve your goal of separating Alberta from Canada you will likely need to start a party to get Calgary to seperate from Alberta because those polictians in Edmonton are all crooks. Next, of course will be to get North Calgary to separate from South Calgary....

You will also need to get a posse to lynch all those nastly left wingers living in Alberta (about 40% of population the last time I checked). Having to live in a democratic country with people who disagree with you must be quite horrible. You have my sympathy.

[apollo19]

The problem with Harper is that he is lacking the appearance to be able to govern people from all walks of life -- whether it is just his way to speak to those whose vote is assured for the Conservative party, or the media focusing on him being this way.

The main point is not that people disagree with his ideas and policies, but that he cannot communicate them effectively to many Canadian voters, who tend to vote for appearances rather then ideals.

[Black Dog]

What is it that is so scary about Stephen Harper?

His hair. It doesn't move. Ever. Honestly, I think the hair is actually the one running the show. Stephen Harper is a hairpiece astride a humanoid robot. That's pretty scary to me.

[apollo19]

His hair. It doesn't move. Ever. Honestly, I think the hair is actually the one running the show. Stephen Harper is a hairpiece astride a humanoid robot. That's pretty scary to me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is a good example of what a typical Canadian might say about Harper. Another problem with him and the Conservative party is that they need to learn to appeal to the lowest common denominator of Canadian voters.

For example, saying, "Stephen Harper wants to sell Canada to the US" is effective not because it is believable, but that common people can understand this view, and oppose "selling Canada to the US". On the other hand, saying something to the effect of, "Paul Martin is a dithering unaccountable threat to national unity" just doesn't have the same registration in a voters mind.

During the next election, whenever it may be, Harper and the Conservatives need to start playing dirty, even if it involves blatantly lying or using sharp personal attacks on others, in order to even have a chance of winning a decent minority.